00:53:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero-project is official
00:53:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Everything submit to GitHub has to go through monero-project
00:55:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Isnt is supposed to he decentralized" is naive. Do you think any and all code is merged?
00:55:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero-project/monero-site is the OFFICIAL WEBSITE REPO 
01:07:28 <hardenedsteel[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Monero-project is official
01:07:28 <hardenedsteel[m]> > 
01:07:28 <hardenedsteel[m]> > Everything submit to GitHub has to go through monero-project
01:07:28 <hardenedsteel[m]> so getmonero.org is The Monero Project's website but not Monero.
01:08:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero-project is monero
01:09:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can fork, run your own custom nodes, code whatever, but monero-project is the official everything.
01:09:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Official wallet, official website, official node and node management software and official development environment - where all code is merged 
01:10:54 <hardenedsteel[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> You can fork, run your own custom nodes, code whatever, but monero-project is the official everything.
01:10:54 <hardenedsteel[m]> > Official wallet, official website, official node and node management software and official development environment - where all code is merged
01:10:54 <hardenedsteel[m]> in that case monero would be centralized (like zcash)
01:11:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're wildly confused 
01:12:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Zcash does what they want. Monero-project hosts meetings and users such as yourself are free to help decide the fate of any and all changes
01:12:28 <hardenedsteel[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> You can fork, run your own custom nodes, code whatever, but monero-project is the official everything.
01:12:29 <hardenedsteel[m]> > Official wallet, official website, official node and node management software and official development environment - where all code is merged
01:12:29 <hardenedsteel[m]> instead forking network i can make my own implementation of Monero
01:12:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> So go for it, make sure people use it
01:13:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nothing stopping anyone from forking monero and cresting their own nodes.
01:13:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive been running a custom implementation for months
01:13:34 <hardenedsteel[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: still monero-project can do what they want too?
01:14:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero-project = me you and everyone else
01:14:50 <hardenedsteel[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I hope it happens in the future. Monero shouldn't have centralized development 
01:14:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> You need consensus 
01:15:04 <hardenedsteel[m]> like how bitcoin cash does.
01:15:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wrong room. Care to take this to #monero-community:monero.social 
01:15:27 <selsta> how do you imagine decentralized devlopment to work?
01:17:49 <afungible[m]> hardenedsteel:  as I understand, the "long term goal" of monero-project is to be pristine and decentralized, with no compromise. Whichever version of Monero i.e. call it Monero or Monero cash. The one with consensus wins. And most importantly, consensus there is support of community, devs and miners.
01:17:49 <afungible[m]> If you think you can satisfy the above criteria, by all means go for it.
01:41:16 <QuickBASIC> No idea who's merging but I'm planning on posting a picture of a Birthday cake on my PR when it hits 1 year old in a few months.
01:42:04 <QuickBASIC> Sorry. I was responding to an old question in this channel and just realized it was asked in July because I haven't used this client in months.
04:34:50 <mesaoptimizer> https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/#exchanges lists godex; godex does not allow xmr swaps (at least right now, just checked)
04:36:02 <mesaoptimizer> https://www.morphtoken.com/ also heads up, morphtoken is dead/down? maybe someone should talk to the creator and ask what is going on
10:20:39 <plowsof> Theres a PR already to address those if im not mistaken 
10:23:10 <plowsof> Sorry i was thinking about this one (not exchanges) https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2012 
10:26:23 <plowsof> Theres a back story to this exchanges page (it became hard to maintain) and i think its not here to stay? Whats the future direction of the merchants/exchanges page? Hm
10:34:51 <mesaoptimizer> removing the exchanges page sounds like a good idea imo
11:50:03 <ErCiccione> The initial idea was to make it a place where to host merchant directories, but at the end it was decided to host also swappers and centralized exchange. There should be an issue somewhere. I think we should only remove the "Centralized exchanges (CEXs) & Swappers" section, but that's me
12:13:31 <mesaoptimizer> that makes sense
12:14:00 <mesaoptimizer> there's more up-to-date information on the subreddits when it comes to CEXs and swappers tbh
12:21:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org: 
12:21:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2010#issuecomment-1206327147
12:22:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Regarding exchanges being listen on getmonero.org, a link to https://kycnot.me/?xmr=on should suffice.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/e2f70a6a30e479082a2d6b2788e8a1b93931e06f)
12:44:02 <afungible[m]> Kycnotme seems good to be included. Just note, kycnot.me is run by a single individual "afaik", and he/she updates it every once in a while. There is work involved & it may miss to keep up with up-to-date information & is run via donation. Just a heads up for the future.
12:45:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Last update was 2 weeks ago and it appears to be open source.
12:45:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://codeberg.org/pluja/kycnot.me
12:45:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> They list morphtoken, so.. not sure how accurate the info is.
12:58:41 <afungible[m]> I remember interacting with the person behind kycnotme on Reddit a while ago, and he/she told the page isn't always upto date, but does his best. So, this info.might be amiss.
12:59:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Personally, I have no issue with removing any and all cex that fud monero.
12:59:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> So binance to the 🚮.. 
13:04:09 <afungible[m]> I think that's the way to go. People need to slowly but surely move towards non-kyc/dex' exchange, even though it's a path of resistance for many users today.
13:08:37 <gonbatfire[m]> I would like to see included community initiatives (with the appropriate disclaimer) rather than restraining ourselves to centralized entities even if they are more "official" & "accurate" 
13:09:25 <gonbatfire[m]> There will simply not be a single source of truth, and we should communicate users tjat
18:11:53 <sgp[m]1> Monero.com now has a banner at the top of the site as promised
18:12:24 <sgp[m]1> Along with our willingness to sell the domain at-cost to the Core Team if desired, I believe that addresses all major concerns
18:16:33 <selsta> looks good to me, I hope some of the other concerns can also be addressed, but they are less urgent
18:19:21 <selsta> e.g. renaming it to "recommended by Cake Labs"
18:23:01 <nioc> at cost = 4x what's in hacker one 
18:24:38 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (108KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/JyBpOdKdqNSDtkqOJAmunIzK/Imagepipe_347.jpg >
18:24:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not working here :P 
18:25:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> (😬😬😬😬 one of these days yall will let me test before releases 😅)
18:25:38 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (144KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/nFKGdIXjQtlcRiYdsXiqBxae/Imagepipe_348.jpg >
18:28:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Chrome, brave, mull (Firefox) all the same rendering issue.
18:28:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> android, of course... 
18:30:58 <selsta> weird it looked correct for me in firefox and safari, even with JS disabled
18:32:28 <selsta> oh i can see the issue on mobile
18:48:55 <sgp[m]1> we can fix it for mobile but you need to stop complaining when we get bullied into a quick feature release (with a threat to delist us from the main site entirely), and then also complain that the quick untested version has bugs
18:53:26 <kayabanerve[m]> <nioc> "at cost = 4x what's in hacker..." <- I believe, while ideally the core team would have it, this does go both ways
18:54:15 <kayabanerve[m]> In that by saying it should be what's in hackerone (which you weren't, but I need some number here), you're asking for a 300k donation
18:54:39 <kayabanerve[m]> *so again, you were highlighting cost, not suggesting that. The issue is it does go both ways if that comment tries to be used to suggest a cost
18:56:46 <nioc> cost of website was 400k  
18:56:51 <nioc> my comment / question was generally about priorities 
18:59:36 <nioc> not complaining, you are getting quick feedback, for free
19:00:19 <nioc> for something that obviously should have been there from day one
19:00:25 <nioc> complaining  ^^
19:00:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> <sgp[m]1> "we can fix it for mobile but you..." <- Its been broken since release day.
19:00:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nobody bullied you or gave you a timeline 
19:00:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Since the day monero.com new interface was released.
19:07:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Not complaining.. would you rather I stfu and pretend I didnt see a bug 3 seconds after clicking the link)
19:08:16 <vikCake[m]> <selsta> "looks good to me, I hope some of..." <- Thanks Selsta for your cool headed and constructive feedback rather than jumping to conclusions and making assumptions on what our real "intentions" were.  We will do what is recommended and of course the domain is ready for sale to the core team and core team only. I am also open to the idea of selling it on the open market at no loss to me.
19:10:38 <vikCake[m]> and thanks fluffypony for taking the time to discuss with me one on one.
19:11:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Might be annoying.. but thats what I do.. I dont point out issues because I want to make someone look bad. Any issue ive ever brought up was to improve your product. . 🤷‍♂️
19:12:55 <vikCake[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: its all good
19:23:49 <hardenedsteel[m]> this redesign may awesome for monero.com
19:23:49 <hardenedsteel[m]> https://redd.it/pr8x6v/
19:25:15 <vikCake[m]> Actually my wife would be happy if I sold off monero.com domain.  She was quite upset when I bought it :)
19:55:08 <r4v3r23[m]> what about the wallet name? isnt that in breach of monero's license?
19:56:02 <selsta> would MyMonero also be a breach?
19:57:01 <r4v3r23[m]> not unless they got permission first to use the name
19:57:43 <hardenedsteel[m]> is monero name copyrighted? 
19:57:51 <selsta> the copyright holder = The Monero Project
19:58:14 <selsta> monero.com can't say their wallet is endorsed by the monero project, or by one of its contributors names
19:58:32 <hardenedsteel[m]> selsta: who is the monero project 
20:01:45 <selsta> hardenedsteel[m]: it's all the people who contributed to monero
20:01:58 <selsta> at least to the source code
20:02:23 <selsta> if we would relicense the project everyone who contributed would have to agree, or we wouldn't be allowed to relicense their code
20:03:23 <hardenedsteel[m]> selsta: i guess I'm contributor too but how I'm copyright holder too?
20:03:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Did you contribute to the source code? 
20:04:00 <hardenedsteel[m]> selsta: everybody? it doesn't seem possible.
20:04:05 <hardenedsteel[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: no
20:04:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> So read a lil
20:04:26 <hardenedsteel[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Did you contribute to the source code?
20:04:26 <hardenedsteel[m]>  * no, i have a few contribution on website.
20:05:05 <hardenedsteel[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: read what?
20:07:03 <selsta> hardenedsteel[m]: the website is not the monero source code
20:07:20 <selsta> we are talking about this license specifically https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/LICENSE
20:09:55 <hardenedsteel[m]> selsta: as far i understand this license is about monero's C++ implementation not monero itself.
20:10:44 <selsta> but r4v3r23[m] was talking about this license
20:13:38 <hardenedsteel[m]> selsta: so monero name is not copyrighted right?
20:14:50 <plowsof> we'd have sued 'Monero Classic' already i think xD
20:14:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Doesn't appear to be, at least not in USA 
20:16:10 <selsta> I don't know what the core team did in detail
20:16:16 <hardenedsteel[m]> plowsof: makes sense, thanks much for answers.
20:16:56 <selsta> there are also defensive uses for word trademarks and copyrights from what I know
20:17:11 <selsta> what would happen if some malicious persons suddenly registers monero and says we aren't allowed to use it anymore?
20:18:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is it a legal issue over monero.com website ? Depends if people think monero.com = monero project and the "recommended wallet" is confused as being recommended by monero-project. The wallet using the the monero code doesnt help either.
20:18:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> I feel this is a non issue as we would likely never press legal charges
20:18:30 <hardenedsteel[m]> afaik fluffypony tried to register it but i have no further details
20:19:23 <hardenedsteel[m]> https://www.trademarkia.com/monero-86339137.html
20:19:27 <selsta> there is no legal issues, r4v3r23[m] said monero.com name is in breach of section 3 of the license, which i disagree with
20:19:32 <hardenedsteel[m]> Current Status:
20:19:32 <hardenedsteel[m]> ABANDONED
20:20:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> ABANDONED - AFTER INTER-PARTES DECISION
20:20:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> 3/27/2015
20:20:39 <selsta> https://trademark.trademarkia.com/monero-97195058.html
20:20:46 <selsta> this one is by fluffy from what I know
20:21:28 <hardenedsteel[m]> https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/2766/12826
20:21:42 <hardenedsteel[m]>  * >... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/94d6118f7ac035f90967250ca870ac69fa5a3867)
20:21:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://trademark.trademarkia.com/m-97195072.html
20:21:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Also the logo
20:22:49 <hardenedsteel[m]>  * >... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/916cc2cf17fd63d9029362d2da46de103983511d)
20:23:08 <hardenedsteel[m]>  * We applied for a trademark, and it almost got accepted, but then the now-defunct Moneero company got in the way. In our discussions with the Software Freedom Law Centre, who defended us against Moneero's threats, we learnt that there is a thing in trademark law (US specifically, but many other countries... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/93678cb43814e9c6d328704b4dd07ddbde4daa7e)
20:24:07 <selsta> hardenedsteel[m]: this is quite outdated
20:26:31 <hardenedsteel[m]> selsta: well, what is the current status?
20:26:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> (These latest ones look like a patent troll)
20:26:54 <selsta> which one?
20:26:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://www.trademarkia.com/correspondent-jennifer-lee-taylor-4-444769
20:27:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> These two
20:27:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://trademark.trademarkia.com/monero-97195058.html
20:27:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://trademark.trademarkia.com/m-97195072.html
20:27:34 <selsta> "Monero Distribution Corporation" is not a patent troll
20:28:38 <selsta> ofrnxmr[m]: she is likely a trademark lawyer
20:28:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think I just mixed up the x correspondant (Jennifer Lee Taylor) with the filer 
20:28:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah
20:29:57 <selsta> hardenedsteel[m]: current status is an application for it