06:12:40 <m-relay> <e​xolix:matrix.org> Hello team,
06:12:41 <m-relay> <e​xolix:matrix.org> I am Alina, a business development manager at Exolix – an instant crypto exchange service without KYC which operates since 2018. 
06:12:41 <m-relay> <e​xolix:matrix.org> Our big focus is on privacy and security and XMR has been one of the most in demand cryptocurrencies for exchange on our website for many years.
06:12:42 <m-relay> <e​xolix:matrix.org> So I am wondering if Exolix can be included into the Swappers section on Monero website? Would be grateful for your feedback and response.
06:34:16 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> As far as I know the list on getmonero.org is rarely if ever updated and only there for legacy reasons.
06:34:16 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> The general advice for newbies is to use trocador.app, a service run by a long time community member, and you are one of the supported exchange partners. Offering good rates and good KYC policies make you more attractive to users.
06:34:17 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> You may also reach out to directory sites such as https://monerica.com/#exchanges to get listed.
06:39:19 <m-relay> <e​xolix:matrix.org> Thank you for the response. Exolix is listed on both Trocador and Monerica, however that would be brilliant to be added to the Merchants on Monero website as well, as this is highly valued by the community, that's why I am reaching out to discover this opportunity.
06:52:37 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> sorry, didn't see that you already are on monerica
07:10:21 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> There certainly isn't any drive to make that swapper list "complete" in any way. And because people in the community see a listing there as something approaching an "official" endorsement or even a  recommendation, it's hard to get consensus to modify the list. I remember similar discussions about listing or not listing some wallet apps. What makes it harder still is that as far a<clipped message>
07:10:22 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> s I know you, i.e. Exolix, are not active in the Monero community. Not that you have to, and I certainly don't want to push you into something, but if you e.g. were a regular here in this room with a "standing", it might be easier to get a listing.
11:37:48 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> We are in a similar boat at StealthEX, been trying to get added for a long while, have a pull request open for 2 years now :)
11:37:48 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> Is there someone currently overseeing the website related pull requests? 
11:37:49 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> To my understanding Erciccione stepped down from that role.
12:10:14 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> I also see the danger of some vacuum now ...
14:20:12 <ofrnxmr> Erciccione didnt oversee pull requests
14:20:59 <ofrnxmr> Community does, (incl erc)
14:23:44 <ofrnxmr> StealthEX and Exolix are both exchanges I've use personally (not listed), and binance is onr i wouldnt recommend (listed). The issue isn't getting listed, its figuring out a criteria. As rbrunner said, the easiest for criteria is "are they active in community?" Ie, do we "trust" them
14:26:21 <ofrnxmr> Regards to power vavuum - dw, he didnt remove his admin acct in -translations, so theres another if erc's broken rooms
14:44:53 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> I never liked the listing (and endorsement) of non-community sites on getmonero
15:06:39 <ofrnxmr> Same. Nor anything proprietary 
15:07:34 <ofrnxmr> Erc tried to list "coin wallet" and change the inclusion rules so it was YOLO, everthing goes 
17:06:02 <nioCat> ceetee +1
17:57:33 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> Right, should've used a different wording, however it seems that all the activity regarding website PRs has been halted. However, I do believe that the list should be updated or at least cleaned up. For example Sideshift has delisted XMR half a year ago, yet it is still in the directory. 
17:57:34 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> Personally I'd be happy to assist, however there would be a conflict of interest since im a representative of StealthEX.
18:10:17 <ofrnxmr> It hasnt halted
18:10:36 <ofrnxmr> Feel free to open pr to remove sideshift
18:10:55 <ofrnxmr> (and thanks if you do)
18:15:10 <ofrnxmr> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2143 close
18:16:46 <ofrnxmr> If you open pr to remove sideshift, tip, dont do this: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2183
18:23:57 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> Gotcha. I guess im just speaking from our point of view since our pr has been hanging in the open forever ( https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/1917)
18:23:57 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> I will get on it and create a PR for sideshift removal tomorrow!
18:35:15 <ofrnxmr> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2221  rottenwheel just opened a pr for sideshift removal 👍
18:35:44 <ofrnxmr> vstealth - erc kicked me from this room a long time ago
18:35:58 <ofrnxmr> Erc gone = no more of his weirdness
18:52:25 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Rotten has replaced erc” drafted”
19:03:12 <plowsof> ErC's PR to remove sideshift from July 2023 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2184 i guess we can start looking at merges now 
19:04:27 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Need to wait for 1 yr anniversary first
19:05:31 <plowsof> I think the main reason why its not been merged is cus we will have to, god forbid, add majestic bank or some other swap services once we start removing things.. a stand off
19:06:34 <dukenukem> Remove sideshift, include StealthEX. Easy peasy lemon squeeze.
19:14:28 <ofrnxmr> We dont have to merge majestic. I'd NOT merge majestic simply because he tried to slip it into the pr without mentioning the true purpose
19:14:44 <ofrnxmr> Erc had to ask him to please not be a slimeball (not verbatim)
19:16:46 <nioCat> why do we have to add anything?
19:17:12 <ofrnxmr> Erc is a fkn loser. 
19:17:13 <nioCat> are we giving our blessing?
19:17:22 <ofrnxmr> blocked me from reviewing his PR's
19:18:11 <ofrnxmr> i just tried to approve 2184 and got a "user is blocked" error. lmao
19:20:25 <ofrnxmr> I cannor even comment on the pr
19:20:47 <ofrnxmr> Closes https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2221 (dup) and https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2183 (bad pr)
19:20:55 <ofrnxmr> re 2184
19:21:36 <ofrnxmr> Im inclined to go with 2221 considering im not allowed to comment or review erc's work. 
19:32:42 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> You list stuff means its endorsed
19:37:57 <plowsof> There is a disclaimer and such to handle that
19:39:17 <ofrnxmr> the stuff we list iant endorsed officially
19:39:21 <plowsof> https://www.getmonero.org/community/sponsorships/
19:40:19 <plowsof> I dont mind majesticbank listed as a swapper. If they have liquidity , let the people have it. Its been a while since the last rendering error 
19:40:36 <ofrnxmr> Has it though?
19:40:48 <ofrnxmr> The last rendering error was the pr to list majesticbank
19:40:58 <ofrnxmr> I mean, "remove sideshift"
19:41:39 <ofrnxmr> Let him open a clean pr, and let current and future behavior dictate whether he's listed
19:42:08 <ofrnxmr> Im not writing a pr for him, just because he cant seem to write an honest one. Thats reason enough to give a yellow card
19:42:39 <ofrnxmr> Stealthex and exolix - before listing, id like to check the fees used 
19:43:14 <plowsof> Agree on MB uhm. Has bitcoinVN been merged yet? Iirc they had some high fees 
19:43:21 <ofrnxmr> Swapee or whatever, sent me xmr using some nonstandard fee. 
19:43:30 <ofrnxmr> 1.5 or 2x the regular fee
19:44:01 <plowsof> Oh tx fees, sorry, i meant the swap fee
19:44:29 <ofrnxmr> Yeah, sorry, tx* fees 
19:45:29 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> Sure, feel free to check or ask anything either here or in the PR (1917). On the matter of StealthEX of course.
19:45:35 <ofrnxmr> does stealthex have their own reserves? 
19:49:46 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> Currently no. It is on the map in the future especially for XMR given current trends.
19:50:58 <ofrnxmr> Right. Might be hard to keep xmr if binance etc delist, right? 
19:51:21 <ofrnxmr> According to trocador, stealthex is a "B" rated exchanges and requires ip logging 
19:51:36 <ofrnxmr> Exolix is a C rated exchange, and doesnt require ip logging 
19:52:01 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> Not really, we have a pretty large LP network. And currently able to grab it from Kucoin/Gate
19:53:06 <ofrnxmr> Plowsof - i'd need to ask morpheus why exolix is rated lower than stealthex 
19:54:34 <ofrnxmr> Stealthex rate is 5.6% higher than the #1 rate (exch), and 4.6% higher than exolix. (this is offtopic for the question of the pr, but i figure i should ask anyway - why arent the rates competitive?)
19:56:47 <m-relay> <v​stealth:matrix.org> There is a lot of factors. What are you trying to exchange and what amounts? StealthEX tend to get more competitive on higher amounts. For example im trying an amount of 0.1 BTC - XMR And our rates are better than vast majority.
19:56:54 <ofrnxmr> very strange - the fixed rate is showing 2.17xmr / 5ltc, and the floating is showing 2.08/5xmr (top rate exch is 2.21). the fixed is only 1.7% more expensive than the top rate of 2.20
20:01:32 <ofrnxmr> Selsta  2184 Closes https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2221 (dup) and https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2183 (bad pr)
20:02:40 <selsta> I can't close anything on this repo
20:08:06 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Is there a criteria that needs to be meet to be listed ?
20:08:39 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> 1. No funding of badges etc
20:20:18 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Hey dudes
20:22:12 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Any questions for me? As someone who lives taking to these swappers, I guess I can give some inside knowledge
20:25:54 <dukenukem> We're not your dudes, pal.
20:26:22 <dukenukem> 'i'd need to ask morpheus why exolix is rated lower than stealthex' ofrnxmr ^^
20:27:05 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> But I said dudes, not my dudes
20:27:14 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> 😃
20:27:40 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Rated where?
20:27:44 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Comparing what?
20:27:54 <ofrnxmr> Yes morph. Question was how come exolix is rated below stealthex. (exolix is a C, stealhex a C)
20:28:02 <ofrnxmr> On trocador
20:28:10 <ofrnxmr> Stealthex a B**
20:28:10 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Ok
20:28:28 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Stealthex has never caused any trouble, it's very reliable
20:28:42 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Exolix had some issues here and there
20:29:06 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> We never had to downgrade stealthex
20:30:04 <ofrnxmr> ok i see 
20:30:46 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Basically, we had thousands of swaps with stealthex without any issue
20:31:51 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> While with exolix it's been reliable, but we were forced to downgrade when they hired some incompetent employees which were halting swaps due to users using mixers
20:32:26 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> They gave us some headache, so we downgraded them
20:32:34 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> And limited their volume
20:33:36 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> No user lost money because of that, but the trust was hurt
20:41:09 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> On Trocador, when the exchange is B rated, the user should receive either the swap or the money back, so when a B rated exchange start halting swaps we get on the side of the user, and it becomes a headache for us to solve the issue. When we solve it, we move them to C, never to return
20:41:19 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Because of the headache they give us
20:44:02 <ofrnxmr> Gotcha. Thanks for the added context 
20:44:14 <m-relay> <c​ryptomorpheus_:matrix.org> Sure, no problem