06:47:42 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> chch3003: I refer to "Regarding the website I started I think I will do the same as current one. " I don't know much yet about the things you mention there, like "YAML", "astroi18n" and "astroi18next". Just let me stress that a rebuilding of the Monero website from the ground up would be an excellent chance for improvements, and I think we also should make a serious attempt to imp<clipped message>
06:47:42 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> rove "contributeability"
06:48:38 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> With this I mean the following: How easy is it to contribute content or changes to the website? How much do I have to know, have to master in order to be able to? The lower this hurdle is, the more contributors and the more contributions we will get.
06:49:58 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> This may influence the choice of formats.
07:03:21 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> You dont know what yaml is ?
07:03:30 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Weird
07:05:45 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Well, "YAML" can mean almost anything, no? I was wondering what *exactly* you mean with "YAML" in the context of Astro and our new website.
07:06:27 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> .yml files
07:06:56 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Have a link to a good example of a non-trivial such file?
07:07:27 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I just wake up
07:07:31 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> :)
07:07:37 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I will in a bit
07:07:48 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Take your time. We have the whole day I guess :)
07:07:59 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Yep
07:17:19 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> I checked, and indeed I wasn't properly aware how far YAML has moved beyound "Originally YAML was said to mean Yet Another Markup Language" and is now a proper, well-defined particular format. So I guess for me the question moves to which aspects of the website would get specified using .yml files. For people reading along: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML
07:39:34 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I thought you contributed to the current website and knew how it works.
07:39:34 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> If you look at https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/tree/master/_i18n you can see that "regular web pages content" is in .yml like https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/blob/master/_i18n/fr.yml
07:39:35 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Then we have "blog pages content/content-heavy pages" in Markdown, and .po for weblate (I need to understand why) https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/tree/master/_i18n/fr/resources
07:49:15 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Thanks for the links. I see now what you refer to. I agree that we seem to have little need to change something fundamental here, and it's already quite contributor-friendly. Anyway, those particular YAML files use only a quite small subset of the format's features, which is nice.
07:51:34 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> By the way, looking to all this "from the outside", like I do now because I only contributed very few things to the website and that was years ago, can have its advantages: A "fresh" look at things that people may take for granted for a long time usually can't do harm - as long as it does not degenerate into wasting time for everybody.
07:51:42 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> By the way, the blog posts are not translated, but Moneropedia is
08:11:22 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> If this project goes anywhere, I don't see it to replace the current website before being feature-complete, content-complete, prefered by the people, prefered by the devs actually maintaining it, etc I think it has to run side by side for a long time, before we eventually decide that it can run at the official url.
08:16:50 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Sounds good as an approach. If we can indeed keep up the effort to make any changes twice for an extended period of time ...
08:18:20 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I guess it will just depend on me lol
08:19:52 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Ah, come on, that's a bit pessimistic now :) I think if many people make changes with both technology stacks, there will be good comparisons and judgements about the amount of progress and improvement done.
08:20:27 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> External contributions is great, but the reality is that most of the time you just have a single guy maintaining everything
08:21:12 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> https://xkcd.com/2347/
08:24:17 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Reading this now https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/1754 In new Figma design developer guides and user guides is integrated in website. 
08:24:17 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Would have to decide if we want to keep it that way
08:25:58 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> My opinion is that Antora is the best tool for that
08:27:12 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Since I already doxxed myself because I am too lazy to keep my anonymity and fuck it, here is a project I made with Antora https://bitcoinjs-guide.bitcoin-studio.com
08:28:50 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> You can see that there are v4 and v5 versions of bitcoinjs, each mainained in a separate git branch (that's one of the strengh of Antora, it is git based)
08:30:45 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Again, I can just do it without asking permission but I can't be full-time in all that unfortunately
08:54:45 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Actually I would keep User guides on the website, there are just like blog posts.
08:54:46 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> The only thing I see that could be improved is having versioning on Wallet/Daemon RPC, where Antora would be helpful.
08:55:51 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Hopefully a number of people will chime in with their opinions. As for me, the answer to the question whether to use *any* documentation management platform for our website would be a resounding "Hell, no!"
08:56:07 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> The added complexity is really not worth it, IMHO.
08:56:22 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I would be curious to see https://github.com/monerodocs/md but it's down
08:57:55 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> https://web.archive.org/web/20230821234134/https://monerodocs.org/  a bit slow, but should give an impression
08:59:22 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> The "tree control" to the left has only 2 levels. Piece of cake. If you can't do that reasonably in Astro pure, the tool is not worth its salt.
09:00:17 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> That content is also on current website?
09:00:26 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> And yes, I am aware about "everything comes out automatically" versus manually keeping a menu current
09:00:52 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Not as a whole, I think. Maybe some pages and Moneropedia entries that cover the same things.
09:59:07 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Having the tree menu without client-side JS is possible
10:59:04 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Something else, the menu looks good but not mobile friendly
11:13:05 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> https://www.websitecarbon.com/
11:13:05 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> is getmonero.org carbon neutral ?
11:14:25 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> W T F
12:09:12 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> On the demo website I made I installed Shadcn component library but I realize now that too many components will not work without JS. 
12:09:12 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> So I think the best solution for that is to make custom components with Tailwind and HTML. 
12:09:13 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I don't find a component library that never use any JS.
13:29:31 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> *Tailwind*, that's this here, right? https://tailwindcss.com/
13:44:55 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> yes
13:51:06 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Sounds attractive if we can avoid yet another complex beast like a "true" component library entering the picture, IMO. And I guess if we don't overdo it with Tailwind based custom componets development effort stays reasonable.
13:52:21 <m-relay> <h​ammermann09:matrix.org> I don't have a technical background, but maybe you guys can use Gitbook for the website documentations? It's kinda like an industry standard for docs at this point. I've seen many projects use it
14:01:01 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Tailwind is just to have more maintainable CSS and by extension components
17:10:14 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I lost a good 2 hours trying to use https://www.tailwind-variants.org thinking it was not working but it's actually Webstorm my IDE that has an issue with Astro 😪
17:12:27 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Anyway, the idea now is to use this to create HTML/Tailwind CSS components that are easy to maintain
17:13:21 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Can also create components of components, for example a Card that contain a header, a paragraph and a button
17:19:34 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Who would have to work with that? Only the initial designer(s) of the website (as long as the design does not undergo a major revision)?
17:22:40 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Not the design but the web dev
17:22:45 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Not the designer but the web dev
17:24:18 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I mean creating the components is not easy, but easy them is easy
17:24:24 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I mean creating the components is not easy, but using them is easy
17:42:33 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Ah, ok, I mixed up the roles, but that's the info I wanted to hear :)
18:37:04 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> The problem with a documentation site is you need a search bar.
18:37:38 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> If you don’t you’ll be there for ages looking for something
18:40:14 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Well, I have encountered a considerable number of website where site search was definitely worse than using Google and the *site:* operator ...
18:45:13 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Most use the internal to search
18:45:14 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Like flexsearch.js
18:45:35 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Depends on the platform or theme you use
18:46:46 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> They all have something
18:46:46 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Mkdocs,mdbook,docsify ,docusaurus etc
18:58:00 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> I just hope you don't decide to allow JS once I am done writing all the components in CSS only
18:59:48 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> Ideally a proper doc for the daemon and cli, with versioning, should be a separate website
19:00:26 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> But we still add the doc in the website I am working on
19:05:23 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> As long as you can search it
19:06:00 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> We can have a search bar that only works if you have JS enabled
19:07:03 <m-relay> <c​hch3003:monero.social> But still, we are missing versionning. It's just not the right tool for a proper doc imo