00:00:08 For starters, I don't think the proposed architecture in the figma file is the way to go. 00:00:25 I don't mind changing things up, but there's a few misgivings on the proposed one. 00:22:56 Sorry had to step away for a bit. To continue. 00:23:14 I see the idea behind Individuals, Developers, Businesses, etc 00:23:37 But ultimately I think this is the wrong way for a few reasons. Several of the needs of these overlap. 00:24:22 And, on a similar note, the downloads page should always be a single click away from the home page with no drop downs or anything in between. 00:24:51 I'm all for culling the current way if it seems too bloated. But I think the foundation of the current architecture is fine. 07:17:15 i like the user story on the current site 07:17:41 this part 07:17:45 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/nnJRGxXzKMrjSjYOToibJCFe 07:18:57 Depending on if we want to be more like other crypto sites, it also needs the whitepaper and tokenomics within 2 clicks 07:44:03 Diego Salazar: There is no Businesses menu 07:44:38 It is: Developers / Individuals / Community / Blog 07:47:17 You can compare the two sitemaps here: https://www.figma.com/design/yT4JTUfvBkAsBDPNPJL1gx/Monero-Redesign-Concept?node-id=2-335&m=dev 07:48:05 I think we should check the websites of other cryptos to see how they organised information. 07:49:40 we have a way different focus than other cryptos 07:51:55 Not that much 07:56:38 Could be renamed Learn More / Get Started / Community / Blog 07:56:53 It is more neutral 09:17:42 <321bob321:monero.social> Carbon neutral ? 09:57:31 thx to solar panel mining yeah 13:16:16 Ah right. Several of my points still stand. 13:27:34 Upon a second look, I don't think much can be cut. 13:27:47 We can remove sponsorships by putting them on the front page. 13:28:12 We honestly should just remove merchants and leave that to a third party. Keeping it up is annoying. 13:31:36 As it is now, the current top-level architecture is superior imo. 13:31:43 Though others feel free to weigh in 13:32:35 just make a general resources page 13:33:04 wit monerica/newsletters/etc on it 13:33:09 with monerica/newsletters/etc on it 13:34:36 Conversely it would be interesting to change "Blog" ro "News" which takes to a page which highlights the newsletters as well as a link to the blog. 13:43:31 weve had some shady sponsors, id prefer not advertising them on the front page 13:47:54 That's an understandable position. 13:48:21 Which honestly means besides cutting Merchants, I think there should be a redesign, but one that works with the current top-level architecture. 13:48:52 Each of the individual pages can be redesigned, of course. 13:59:36 nah, monerica is poltically motivated with a lot of sponsors and drugs 14:00:34 whatever, still a valuable resource 14:01:06 yes, but not something to be shared on the website 14:01:30 we can either list all helpful 3rd party resources or non 14:01:59 making distinctions, THAT is political 14:02:32 bruh, I know how to evade trouble legally 14:02:51 bruh, I know how to evade legal trouble 14:04:00 please stop 14:04:09 you shouldn't imply/promote any illegal stuff, monero being private already caused problems across multiple countries 14:04:14 there are exactly 0 reasons why anyone would get in trouble for linking to that site 14:04:29 especially if its in a list of a bunch of other helpful sites 14:05:42 I don't use how monerica is useful for most users, it is a website with a lot of links 14:05:55 kycnotme with monero filter is a lot more useful 14:06:45 its a big directory of places where you can spend monero... 14:06:51 they give you slight detail 14:06:58 and it has a whole mental outlaw video about it 14:07:14 90k views 14:07:45 mental outlaw is an influcener/individual he can do whatever he wants, his opinions/ideas reflect his own 14:08:23 and? it still got a bunch of publicity, i dont see why it shouldnt be linked as a resource if it is one, a famous one at taht 14:08:24 and? it still got a bunch of publicity, i dont see why it shouldnt be linked as a resource if it is one, a famous one at that 14:08:28 he also made a video about darknet bible? why don't we also add it to monero site? I'm sure it is also useful for "some" people. 14:09:00 because its not directly related to monero? you can keep your whataboutism to yourself 14:09:26 you dont like the opinions of the guy running the site, i get it. doesnt mean its not a helpful site for many 14:09:46 you are the one brought mental outlaw 🤷 14:10:09 yeah to show how monerica is already more well known than some other sites 14:10:39 Breh 14:10:47 Does anyone even look at github? 14:10:53 Or the website 14:11:11 light theme hurts my eyes 14:11:30 https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/ 14:11:38 Right at the top, sirs 14:12:08 Send pr for monerica and/or kycnot.me 14:12:18 Separate PRs 14:12:56 ``` 14:12:58 If you are looking for places to spend your Monero, the directories below have some options. Please remember to do your own research before trusting them with your money: 14:13:00 cryptwerk.com 14:13:02 ``` 14:14:18 Localmonero and Mymonero/Edge needs to get removed, no discussion 14:14:38 Localmonero is removed 14:14:50 add monerica, replace LM with haveno-reto, remove hodl hodl, add trocador to swappers 14:14:52 Just not deployed 14:14:54 Edge has no removal PR 14:15:02 Bro go use the git smh 14:15:13 what is that https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/ ? 14:15:23 i might look into it later 14:15:24 Like, at least look at the open /merged PRs?? 14:15:30 Just not deployed 14:15:53 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2321 14:16:17 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2293 14:16:29 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2282 14:16:30 mymonero 14:16:33 sad how all "Centralized exchanges (CEXs) & Swappers" had breaches/major issues 14:16:42 even Trocador that is not mentioned 14:16:56 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2305 14:16:58 haveno + lm 14:17:24 oh seems like there's a disclaimer at the bottom of the website 14:17:28 nice 14:17:32 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2045 14:17:34 trocador 14:17:36 2yrs old 14:17:38 what issues did they have? 14:18:06 Ddos 14:18:22 lol you made it sound like they lost funds or data 14:18:43 that is a lot different than getting ddosed 14:18:44 "major issues" 14:18:46 no 14:18:48 Trocador isnt listed tho, so? 14:18:54 a few days of downtime is not a MAJOR issue 14:19:13 its not even listed... so.. 14:19:20 might have caused loss of funds idk 14:19:23 Simpleswap on the other hand ... 14:19:36 what? you have no idea how trocador works 14:19:48 They are a middleman 14:19:50 but is it better than most swappers out there 14:20:00 they dont process your trade 14:20:03 quit yapping about things you have no clue on 14:20:59 it's almost slanderous to put trocador being offline due to ddos in the same category as swappers who have lost a combined total of hundreds of millions 14:21:14 . 14:21:23 and then suggesting there could have been loss of funds... 14:22:34 Regardless.. ITS NOT ON THE SITE 14:22:56 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2045 << review it 14:24:26 Regarding mymonero: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2282 << review it. There is a discussion about it that needs to be settled. Go settle 14:25:16 hardenedsteel: thank you for putting in work on these many PRs 14:25:46 lol 14:25:52 majestic talking about selective scammers is funny when they jack up fees selectively 14:25:58 Regarding edge: it needs a PR 14:26:25 Majestics sentiment was still good, even if hypocritical 14:27:03 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2294 14:30:15 is trustpilot.com trusted when it comes to crypto stuff? 14:30:35 or I have to look into reddit threads too? 14:32:19 Open Alias is relevant? 14:39:26 "Relevant" meaning, still in use? 14:39:28 yeah, its supported by a few wallets, has some updates in pupeline via sgp, but few people actually use it afaict 14:39:30 open alias 2.0 is on the horizon #openalias 14:39:51 is Mailing List working? I'm not subscribed to it 14:39:56 https://lists.getmonero.org/postorius/lists/monero-announce.lists.getmonero.org/ 14:40:21 fixed when i last checked / closed an issue about it 14:41:13 cool plowsof should "The Monero Standard" removed from https://www.getmonero.org/library/? 14:41:17 LM will be closed soon 14:41:45 so website will be inaccessible and no longer posting "weekly publication" 14:41:49 Running 16.04 🙃 14:42:39 They said they'd keep the block explorer running, so im not sure about standard 14:42:40 recanman: 14:42:45 alex from local monero said he would leave up their block explorer at the same link , we've not asked directly about TMS but there is a pr to remove it already 14:43:05 great 14:43:35 sorry for echoing 14:43:56 site has issues / PR's open for anyone to review/submit yay foss 14:44:12 Don't be sorry, an echo is better than me yelling it loudly twice 14:45:08 there was a PR to add monerica to current site, and due to the open sourceness of the site it was nack'd 14:45:54 Hm. Cryptwerk is listed though 14:46:08 never heard of him 14:46:31 lol 14:46:55 "I am currently against this proposal to be merged since the website shadow removed me and" 14:46:56 Also 14:47:49 that became personal for me when i noticed the github rep be updated - to add/change the home page, and it was later reflected 14:47:54 luigi and moneromooo still work on monero? 14:49:26 however the swapper complaining (MB) was listed in that same file but not on their page. i found it all in all strange, i dont even care if they dont list MB, just the way excuses where presented vs facts 14:49:30 Monerica has blacklisted Kyun, saying it is "Unreliable web hosting due to frequent outages and data loss. The owner Naphtha is currently MIA" 14:50:38 > What I really don't understand is the last part, "The owner Naphtha is currently MIA". What? The canary is being updated every 10 days, signed with my key. I reply to 99% of messages within the same day, and if I'm not AFK, I usually reply instantly. I have never received any attempt of communication from Monerica. 14:50:40 What I really don't understand is the last part, "The owner Naphtha is currently MIA". What? The canary is being updated every 10 days, signed with my key. I reply to 99% of messages within the same day, and if I'm not AFK, I usually reply instantly. I have never received any attempt of communication from Monerica. 14:52:12 Luigi merges community approved PRs 14:52:14 mooo works on monero leisurely / is usually available for help etc 14:53:24 librejo.monerodevs.org is hosted on kyun, and i know a few ppl who use kyun and havent heard any complaints 14:53:29 i nack the haveno-reto listing . i trust haveno.exchange to list it if they feel its appropriate 14:53:34 So they are active in Vulnerability Response Process? https://github.com/monero-project/meta/blob/master/VULNERABILITY_RESPONSE_PROCESS.md 14:53:37 H1 etc 14:54:15 because they are the go-to ones https://github.com/monero-project/meta/blob/master/VULNERABILITY_RESPONSE_PROCESS.md#i-points-of-contact-for-security-issues 14:54:49 hopefully the redesign process isn't a way to circumvent the pull request / review workflow :) 14:55:08 weird how they scrubbed any menion of https://telegra.ph/The-Situation-01-30 from their blog, it used to be there 14:55:30 should make it easier 14:56:40 Does everyone agree that maintaining the merchants list is probably more trouble than its worth and it should be removed in site v2.0? 14:56:51 No 14:57:17 My vote is for removal. Ofrn is against. Everyone else? Make your voice heard! 14:57:50 merchants where not maintained by the previous site maintainer because of the constant noise/work 14:57:57 The many people posting PRs for merchants says the opposite 14:58:55 If by merchants, you meant "shops and stores", we already dont list them 14:58:59 will site previews be alive on netlify after the redesign for a while? I would like to compare and see im something is missing plowsof 14:59:16 if* 14:59:32 We only list cryptwerk and should probably add stuff like xmrbazaar (when mature), kycnot.me etc 14:59:49 Well, regarding the site itself there are three schools of thought. The first is that it is a neutral gateway to all things Monero. That the site shouldn't make value judgements (except for obvious scams. The second is that it should be a curated gateway for things the community recommends. Who the 'community' is, and the criteria is generally disagreed upon. 14:59:50 Yeah. Also looking into coolify 14:59:59 sure, someone could host the old site e.g. coolify.monerodevs.org after transition 15:00:13 Against removal, though I'd be in favor of hosting a curated list of merchants since it's the "official" site. Not everyone gets merged, listed and deployed on getmonero.org. Criteria of longevity, legitimacy of business... 15:00:22 the third is that the site should really just point to core stewarded stuff, with rare exceptions. This was one ideal back in the day, but I think it more or less died. 15:00:36 No. 15:00:47 If this is a core-only site, let core do the work 15:01:14 ofrnxmr: I think that's more or less why the third school of thought died. 15:02:02 Smells like every other project. All corporate and centralized 15:02:25 Which would mean, remove all wallets, all merchants, exchanges, docs 15:02:26 Thought it was less about core-only, and more an ultra-conservative version of the second school of thought. Deciding on the strictest version of 'community' and 'criteria' 15:02:28 forgot about this cool website lol 15:03:40 Regardless, even literally today we see argument and discussion taking place because some people are for more curation and some are for neutrality. 15:03:46 This is not a resolved discussion by any means. 15:03:49 We are already conservative 15:03:50 We reject a lot of things 15:03:52 Like exchanges that havent been running with xmr for a solid period of time 15:03:54 Monerica being an example 15:03:56 prefer if monero can maintain its own 15:03:58 Wallets that contain trackers 15:04:02 merchants already causing discourse 15:04:11 wallets that have hidden fees 15:06:11 We don't list any and everything, we dont list individual merchants (shops / stores), we do list communiry approved (not community recommended) swappers and exchanges 15:06:24 well, both of my suggestions (move sponsorship to front page as per proposed redesign so we can remove the page, and remove merchants page) seem to be vetoed 15:06:24 I have seen projects that support only xmr to get CCS funds then focus on other cryptos 15:06:33 We only list open source wallets 15:06:35 so my suggestion then is to use the top-level architecture as-is when doing the redesign 15:07:19 or at the very least, if another one is proposed, it should have obvious benefits over the current one 15:07:34 off topic, but i left my 2c about unstoppableswaps being bitcoin focused in #community 15:08:33 s/Merchants/directories maybe 15:08:59 If were ok with listing kycnot.me and other directories 15:09:04 well, Monero is mostly community funded, right? especially the CCS 15:09:28 sponsors to front page is sane (theyre on the github readme of monero core , but not the up-to-date list) 15:09:30