00:00:50 The last/current design made attempts to be pretty "people" focused. The white mixed with the people above the fold on the video were attempts to make privacy friendly. 00:01:23 The proposed design goes in a more "tech" direction. 00:02:41 I cam see the simple, amateurish, people-focused thing being dated. 00:02:43 Can* 00:03:56 But I think the tech direction is played out also. Will be dated by the time it goes up and likens too much to silicon valley 00:06:11 https://dribbble.com/shots/23134440-AWS-Monitoring-Hero 00:06:24 Seriously. Everything is gradient these days. 02:48:48 Something's been swirling in my head for a few days. I had a conversation at Defcon. Was talking with a guy about Monero. He was a "crypto" guy and had only vaguely heard of Monero. Asked about smart contracts and stuff. 02:48:59 I explained to him and he basically said "so it's just money?" 02:49:06 And that's been in my head since then. 02:49:12 Monero. It's just money. 02:51:59 <321bob321:monero.social> digital cash sir 02:57:33 That would be Dash 03:07:02 Dash is digital trash 03:07:32 Dark coin cuz the node goes offline 03:11:00 I was joking :P 03:11:05 was just their tagline for a long time 03:12:07 They still use it online sometimes. they're just having a mid life / identity crisis. pray for dash 10:15:54 need to check the redesign concepts on penpot 10:21:50 I'm actually a flat enjoyer but gradient is excellent too. However I think you can more easily shoot yourself in the foot when it comes to gradient that flat. Too much spread with too much color difference can easily lead to mental overwhelming when looking at the page. Elements should be easily distinguishable and not *fade out of the background* 10:22:48 I like this one 10:23:02 This one's hero too. Not the dashboard 10:41:45 corporate shill 10:42:21 from what I noticed a lot of exchanges use gradient design 13:55:39 Meeting in 4 hours here Meeting this sunday: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1049 13:55:44 Meeting in 4 hours here: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1049 17:58:52 Hmmmmmm 18:00:00 1900utc 18:00:04 Hello 18:00:31 Hi its me 18:00:42 Am I an hour early 18:00:58 I believe so 18:01:21 Its 18 UTC 18:01:42 Ok I guess see you in an hour 18:05:18 see you at the next meeting in 55 mins 19:00:14 Hello again 19:01:09 Hi its me again 19:01:35 Margaret 19:01:37 Hi 19:03:39 So not much has happened with the website ccs 19:03:55 It's been reopened but no new comments since 19:04:15 which? 19:04:23 redesign? 19:04:45 i didnt know 19:05:00 Really it's a reimplementation CCS. Design isn't a part of it. 19:05:19 That said, I've done quite a bit of work so far. Prelim stuff still, but closing in on an angle. 19:05:31 I had several comments above of findings and discussion. 19:05:39 MB, if I may use some meeting time, I'd like to get opinions of the people here. 19:05:52 Of course 19:06:26 So if you scroll up just a bit, you'll see some of the discussion, but I can reiterate here so things can be easy to follow. 19:06:44 In summary, the current design is light theme, amateur-style, people-focused. 19:07:11 Note this is the design, not the information architecture, nor top level blocking (i.e. which pages exist and their hierarchy) 19:07:44 Two of those things are things I know people want changed. They want primarily dark theme and to move away from amateur style. 19:08:02 Amateur-style does have benefits (namely that almost anyone can make graphics for it) 19:08:08 > Design isn't a part of it. 19:08:09 then whats the purpose? 19:08:41 Janaka proposes to redo the site (code), but he needs a design ready to go to do so. 19:08:56 I'd argue they want choice 19:09:24 That CCS was opened with this proposed design: https://www.figma.com/file/yT4JTUfvBkAsBDPNPJL1gx/Monero-Redesign-Concept?type=design&node-id=0-1&mode=design 19:09:34 thats also design 19:09:35 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/GwmYIzZcinOsZGDQPpWqnzfc 19:09:54 oh i see what you mean 19:09:55 I wouldn't want a dark theme without an option for light 19:10:07 Agreed 19:10:22 Janaka didn't make the design. Hammermann09 did. 19:11:06 But as discussed in previous meetings, the primary issue with the proposed design here is really the information hierarchy. The current hierarchy (top level nav items) is superior. 19:11:10 any sneak peaks now that penpot having issues? 19:11:16 (at least in my opinion) 19:11:38 there are toggles that work without JS 19:11:41 Haven't put the pen to the pot yet, so to speak. The first part of design is exploration. Seeing what's out there. What's trendy. What we like. What we don't. 19:12:03 I've linked things above on dribbble. Going through behance also. 19:12:16 Fun to peruse the awwwards also 19:12:17 https://www.awwwards.com/ 19:12:24 just modern but nothing too fancy 19:12:36 Aside from hierarchy and some bugs, what is the problem with the hammerman design 19:12:52 This is kind of what I wanted to discuss today actually. 19:13:00 The primary problem I had with hammermann design was two things 19:13:02 I dont like zano's website btw 19:13:07 1. Info hierarchy (as discussed) 19:13:35 2. The graphics are simultaneously too generic, but also too far out of reach of the average person to make. 19:13:56 I realize if we're "upping our game" on the site, keeping the graphics within the means of the average person to make is kind of a pipe dream. 19:14:21 But I recall at least a couple individuals say that was a strength of the current site. So I wanted to see how you all felt about that. 19:14:40 https://getmonero-unofficial-beta.vercel.app/ 19:14:42 how easy to maintain astro? 19:14:44 The more elaborate and specialized the graphics are, the more likely if we need a graphic, we'd need to go through a graphic designer. 19:14:52 Instead of the figma, for anyone that wants 2 look 19:15:18 hardenedsteel: before I went to defcon I did a deep dive of existing SSGs on the market right now, including Astro. 19:15:30 also does it worth to the cost? 19:15:35 It's comparable, and will actually be a bit easier than Jekyll imo. 19:16:42 these 2 questions are only concerns to me ig 19:16:43 Hammermann: dunno if you're around 19:17:33 Not just to you, but the meeting we had last month had a general consensus that we'd like to move forward on the new site, so the cost was fne. 19:17:36 Not just to you, but the meeting we had last month had a general consensus that we'd like to move forward on the new site, so the cost was fine. 19:17:43 Don't know if you were at that meeting. 19:18:24 All this said, do we like the STYLE of hammerman's design? 19:18:52 I think the color choices and icons etc are fine 19:18:54 The info hierarchy would change, and the information architecture (what's on each page and how that's structured) should also be changed. 19:18:57 But the style 19:19:21 Regarding information architecture (ia): 19:19:26 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/cypherstack.com/kGKfTAaAosYOJAsqzfnHEgew 19:19:29 this section is particularly cramped and doesn't flow well 19:19:43 I'd be making those adjustments in my design I'm working on. 19:20:36 I personally think hammermans design is good 19:20:50 I'm happy to use Hammerman's design as a starting point style-wise for my own stab at this. But didn't know if people wanted to follow the trends and go gradient. :P 19:21:02 There are many issues with it in it's current form 19:21:03 The homepage is cluttered with too ich onfl 19:21:07 too much info 19:21:27 mostly looks good 19:21:52 We need information density without fluff and a big download button 19:22:13 A strength of the existing, live design is natural chunking with the blocks. 19:22:15 just images look from stock image website 19:22:19 Seems to be a gradient as well(?) Black<>grey<>black + some background designs in there 19:22:41 ? 19:22:51 a "free flow" site like the proposed one needs a bit more spacing and thought put into natural chunks since blocks aren't there to do it for you 19:23:13 https://getmonero-unofficial-beta.vercel.app/_astro/community.BjZsu_y7_ZPs6tk.svg 19:23:15 like this one 19:23:24 The color pallet is conveniently similar to vosto emisios explainer videos if that changes anything 19:23:36 yes this is what I mean by generic 19:23:47 not really, just the things that sells the person at the Homepage 19:23:59 No you aren't convinced by getmonero.org 19:24:06 and I may be too avant garde here, but I have a personal desire to see Monero be...a little more unique 19:24:20 these are stock and not custom made? 19:24:21 You go there after you think "I'll look into monero" 19:24:29 We don't need fluffy marketing language there 19:24:56 Wheres the Download button right? 19:25:02 The only clutter I see on the Homepage is roadmap 19:25:05 When I want to look into a project and can't immediately find it's token distribution and something like a whitepaper I'm immediately sketched out 19:25:12 and blog post 19:25:20 i dont know but it looks like it, as @diego:cypherstack.com said 19:25:21 Also source link 19:25:27 i dont know but it looks like it, as @diego:cypherstack.com said generic 19:26:06 "Whitepaper" lol 19:26:27 A lot of the stuff on the homepage can be removed 19:26:30 not not the avg person, just highlight differences and what makes monero unique 19:26:53 "join communities" is a duplicate of the link to "communities" in the header 19:27:26 The average person isn't using monero and won't be convinced by fluff 19:27:30 there's a lot of space between componenets 19:27:49 I'll be taking this feedback and will be making a design within the coming weeks. 19:27:51 communities is on homepage 3x 19:27:57 isn't that what we are trying to change? 19:28:06 And since it seems the general consensus is the style itself of the proposed redesign is fine, I can move forward with that. 19:28:10 wym by "fluff" 19:28:39 The text on the concept site is mostly garbage right now 19:28:46 Ok, one more thing I'd like to discuss with you all. 19:28:48 A lot of text that isn't really saying anything 19:28:57 A big question actually. 19:29:11 What are sections that (in your opinion) MUST be on the home page. 19:29:35 Download 19:29:45 The short video 19:30:17 On the live site we have: explainer video, 2 CTA (about Monero and join community), a sort of "get started" section (choose wallet, get some coins, merchants, FAQ), Guides and Resources, Moneropedia, and Join Community (contributing, MRL, meet community) 19:30:44 We can kill moneropedia 19:31:04 Note the question isn't what shouldn't be there. 19:31:07 It's what should. 19:31:31 download and short video 19:31:42 how monero is secure (wish it was quantum resistant), private, unique, different, 19:32:28 the hilarious thing is this was how I designed the live version. But other people have iterated on the home page over the years. I think it's worse in some ways, and better in others. 19:32:32 with very technical details nothing complicated, easy to grasb and convey the meaning 19:32:54 monerwiki would be really great 19:32:59 monerowiki would be really great 19:33:04 https://web.archive.org/web/20200101010207/https://web.getmonero.org/ 19:33:06 Id strip the homepage to basically just how to download monero and a wuock explainer video about it 19:33:23 like: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page 19:33:25 this was my original design 19:34:19 Sorrtly, not "how to download", but just a link to the downloads page 19:35:00 Nah a download verification guide is important 19:35:02 design is old, too much margins, drop down menu feels like 2000s 19:35:14 Not on the homepage.. 19:35:15 But other than that, yeah, make it as simple as the Bitcoin site 19:35:36 Linking the github repo(s) to show we're in active development? 19:35:44 I meant in regards to the "what makes monero different' portion 19:35:53 not everyone will watch the video, we need some text, slow internet plays a factor 19:36:11 and something to easily copy and paste when someone why monero and not X? 19:36:13 "use monero" 19:36:15 Done 19:36:21 Nobody reads 19:36:25 docs exists 19:36:35 If they want to read, there should still be a page for that 19:36:43 just not on the homepage 19:36:48 https://bitcoin.org/en/ 19:36:51 ah just realized 19:36:57 hammerman design was heavily inspired by bitcoin.org 19:37:12 Individuals, Developers, etc. 19:37:35 Yes 19:37:37 Simple like this 19:37:46 I think bitcin.org is a nice blueprint for ia 19:38:26 You forgot the h 19:38:54 Alright. All of my personal questions are answered. 19:39:17 https://z.cash/ other than animations decent info 19:39:19 Dunno if anyone else had things to discuss or say regarding this 19:39:45 Going to make w light mode toggle, right? 19:40:00 yethir 19:40:13 Next meeting 3 weeks from now? Feel free to send me agenda items to put on the GitHub issue. 19:40:31 Sounds good. I should definitely have quite a bit of design done by then. 19:40:44 I'll be sharing here intermittently for comment. 19:41:17 Thanks guys, this was fun! 19:41:29 Alright guys, looks like we're done here. Thank you for your time, see you around! 19:41:53 we even stayed on topic literally the whole meeting 19:42:01 Couldn't be more proud 19:42:58 Thats wut happens when trolls dont show up 19:43:09 what about current issues and PRs that is pending? 19:43:23 rip 19:43:40 pray fate and mario pays attention 19:44:00 New site meeting and old site meeting? 19:44:04