00:00:01 Harden said me or plow 00:00:02 i said plow 00:00:08 I said me or plow* 00:00:27 plowsof would be a good candidate 00:00:37 <321bob321:monero.social> Plowsof was pow consensus 00:00:38 everyone loves plowsof 00:00:49 plow doesnt seem to want to 00:00:54 <321bob321:monero.social> Everyone is plowsof 00:01:05 wait I'm plowsof? 00:01:11 <321bob321:monero.social> Conscripted 00:01:22 geonic what question did I asked about Diego? 00:01:34 Been on the table for weeks (ive been arguing to get plow to do it) 00:01:45 ig Diego could be handed merge power? 00:02:02 <321bob321:monero.social> Just scream at him/her/google 00:02:21 ah alr 00:02:22 He said bbl when hardened nominated him a few mins ago lolol 00:02:28 <321bob321:monero.social> Congrats your super sayain merger 00:02:30 will read it in the near future 00:03:07 Luigi's a funny guy. Throws some candy on the floor and says "fight for it" 00:04:25 i dont see it as candy 00:04:28 ofrnxmr's a funny guy. See luigi, proceeds to imagine black in white somehow 00:04:44 people are supposed to be great to their peers. Idk why he wants us to slander each other 00:05:00 where tf did he wants us to slander each other 00:05:04 Ok. With merges done can I go back to designing? 00:05:14 yes sir 00:05:16 Yes @diego:cypherstack.com 00:05:31 Back I go! 00:05:37 (Ill be getting whipped by plowsof for that list soon) 00:05:54 The design is just a bunch of monero chan pictures and a download button. 00:05:56 damn, thats some prime toxic relationship 00:06:21 literally anonwallet on reddit in 2023 00:06:29 <321bob321:monero.social> Mspaint? 00:06:46 Gosh I wish. Figma charges an arm and a leg. 00:08:46 @plowsof:matrix.org are you willing to get merge powers? 00:10:00 Remember, there are no moral dilemma at cracking Adobe products 00:10:23 Adobe didn't end up actually purchasing figma. 00:10:28 Deal fell through 00:10:53 thx god 00:19:17 <321bob321:monero.social> Better to not give an option 00:19:35 <321bob321:monero.social> Who else will reach consensus 00:22:44 Since were all here, can i ask for a couple reviews on doc changes 00:23:18 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-docs/pull/25 spelling and grammar for moneropulse doc 00:24:13 <321bob321:monero.social> Yalla 00:24:43 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-docs/pull/16 contributing.md lifted from -site, outdated compared to /monero, but should still be good. Can use from from /monero if ppl prefer that one 00:25:07 <321bob321:monero.social> Maybe people on the pulse can look? 00:33:32 <321bob321:monero.social> I can look later if i remember 00:33:32 <321bob321:monero.social> ./remind in 6hrs 14:38:18 On the Website https://web.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/join-monero-matrix.html you should probably state which Rooms are yours or official etc, but instead it just says search for Monero rooms that you like. So I just joined all of them with the name and logo Monero and one of them was Monero Austria and that's just bunch of PORN. 14:42:53 the hangouts and workgroups page has the links to the "official" channels 14:43:29 The "how to join" page needs to be updated 14:44:03 the monero austria room is indeed full of porn / no admin there. it is hosted on matrix dot org, our of our control. 14:44:11 out* 14:44:27 nice, thanks I see that now. 14:45:17 Yeah I understand 14:46:53 the 1 account (a bot) spamming in there has been added to our global ban list now, thanks for reporting 15:11:26 plowsof has been promoted to write permissions. Currently the rules require 2 approvals after the latest push before merging. Let's see how it goes. 17:16:32 What? 17:18:00 please update the proposal 17:20:49 What do you mean? Which part? 17:22:34 Ha yes the design. I will update when the design, and ideally the content, is ready 18:41:24 Hey team, whats about 2318 merge? 18:43:14 The more you ask, the more it gets pushed back 18:43:50 Were a team of community members. We'll cross that bridge eventually 18:44:04 As you can see from 3messages above, we had no active maintainer before 18:44:32 We just got one. Let's not begin his first day with telling him to merge centralized services with 1 approval 18:45:48 I approved the pr, but again, nothing is official. I am just 2 person. We are a community, and other community members (and contributors) need to also approve 18:46:24 I approved the pr, but again, nothing is official. I am just 1 person. We are a community, and other community members (and contributors) need to also approve 18:47:55 I _hope_ that now that we have a more active maintainer, we will see more frequent merges. 18:48:14 For now, sit back and relax. (while we debate removing simpleswap) 18:48:27 just clarifying because dont have exact undrestanding yet how these processes are leaded 18:50:03 Before: waiting arbitrarily 18:50:04 now: ~2 approvals 19:30:04 <321bob321:monero.social> Rando write criteria k thnx bye 19:44:43 I think it needs discussion lol 19:44:58 I can't rule the criteria alone 19:47:40 <321bob321:monero.social> We like to be dominated 😏 19:52:51 we have no maintainer still, im just an extra person with merge rights :) 19:56:35 <321bob321:monero.social> Reduce your ccs price and you can be it 19:57:33 <321bob321:monero.social> Well if hardensteel does a good job ?? 20:06:03 with a functional site workgroup we should have less need for a "maintainer" although still important. 20:07:54 with that being said i think a "things plowsof interested in page" would be awesome 20:11:24 <321bob321:monero.social> You can have working group but still need some to do the work 20:11:32 <321bob321:monero.social> Someone* 20:12:55 <321bob321:monero.social> Currently the lowest paid ccs for website is doing the work 20:13:07 i dont approving that ToS should be changed imo 20:13:15 i dont approving, that ToS should be changed imo 20:13:34 they dont even accept mixed coins 20:14:15 they have an aml checker 20:14:18 Hello everyone, we need to work on criteria, publish it on website, then review relevant PRs and existing listings based on that. 20:14:18 Criteria will be created for these 2 pages: 20:14:20 Merchants & Exchanges: https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/ 20:14:22 Mobile & Light Wallets: https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/ 20:14:24 For reference on how a criteria should look like: https://www.privacyguides.org/en/vpn/#criteria 20:14:26 <321bob321:monero.social> Like whirlpool ? 20:14:44 <321bob321:monero.social> Ccs approved 20:15:00 - Maintainers SHALL NOT make value judgments on correct patches. 20:15:02 - Any Contributor who has value judgments on a correct patch SHOULD express these via their own patches. 20:15:07 paid with good exposure 😢 20:16:57 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2045#issuecomment-1441342078 20:16:58 majesticbanks thoughts on criteria for exchanges 20:18:18 Grampys for wallets 20:18:18 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2162 20:19:12 made a related issue just now for discussing adding rino https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2362 20:20:01 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2143 20:20:02 a recently rejected wallet that was scraping fees 20:21:45 <321bob321:monero.social> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/discussions 20:21:46 <321bob321:monero.social> ^ so we dont go post malone 20:21:55 Without defined criteria, if a pr for it is opened, it should be listed 20:21:57 <321bob321:monero.social> And add to meeting agenda? 20:22:55 in the early days, rinos source was not yet available, but that is not the case anymore 20:23:48 Criteria should have some roots in past discussions. Such as 20:23:50 - around for 1yr 20:23:52 - open source 20:23:54 - not spyware / doesnt include trackers 20:23:56 - dont list / remove listings with bad reviews 20:24:01 thanks ofrnxmr for linking the MB/cryptograpmy comments/issues 20:24:08 <321bob321:monero.social> Google fonts api allowed ? 20:24:56 Cloudflare :D lol 20:25:19 I would move to delist edge wallet simply based on the included trackers 20:25:24 <321bob321:monero.social> Forgot rule one 20:25:30 problem: if we try to ask the greater audience on a large ish platform for feedback about a wallet/swappet , e.g. reddit/twitter/monero town/c/monero - there is bound to be manipulation somewhere 20:25:36 <321bob321:monero.social> 1. Supports monero 20:26:22 i dont care to ask twitter or reddit 20:26:51 <321bob321:monero.social> Just ask here 20:27:09 <321bob321:monero.social> In 1 yrs time we will have pow consensus 20:27:26 listing the exchange from vietnam and asking here wouldnt get us anywhere 20:27:45 <321bob321:monero.social> Your opening a can of worms 20:27:49 I use a lot of these things heavily myself. Ive actually used quickex 3 times via trocador 20:27:51 we had to rely on possibly manipulated reddit threads/tweets 20:27:53 <321bob321:monero.social> Too many chiefs 20:28:11 And re stealthex and exolix, we asked trocador admins for their reason for ratings 20:28:36 but that particular example was existing for almost a decade and had privacy focused things such as cash for crypto atm's but yeah 20:28:45 And found out that one of them had refused to refund customers w/o reason and was permanent demoted 20:29:08 <321bob321:monero.social> Just list trocador and then what eva they use 20:29:35 btw talked with orangefren today regarding exolix rates, they inflate it 20:29:41 That too 20:30:02 some swappers intentionally use non-standard fees, leading to fingerprintability of the tx 20:31:20 So i dont really care if there is a bot campaign to promote or demote a service. I test it myself and make my own judgements. 20:31:28 Even stack wallet and cake wallet 20:31:44 even cake wallet uses non-standard fees when auto selected 20:31:52 look how many ppl called me a bad actor for exposing those wallets for making external connections 20:31:54 to their excuses, guessing the fee for a monero transaction was a pain.. they decided to hardcode it for simplicity :) to our detriment 20:32:06 ah yes u already said that 20:32:07 Trocador has adjustment for that, so their rates are basically lower 20:32:11 jeffro256 has fixed that now. rucknium done alot of research in that area 20:32:13 No it doesnt? 20:32:36 Cake uses the fee returned by the daemon 20:32:48 "auto" has been pumped to priority ..... 2, i forget 20:33:04 The estimated fees in cake are hardcoded and completely3 wrong 20:33:32 but the actual fee in cake is accurate to what the daemon suggests 20:33:32 totally forgot about "they need to use the reference wallet implementation for assigning fees" 20:33:40 when i use auto fee priority the fee differs than slow medium fast etc. 20:34:02 unless its changed 20:34:03 Whatever it is, is completely wrong :D lol. Hardcoded before hardwprk 20:34:11 auto was broken / not working how you would expect it to 20:34:30 perhaps we are talking about a broken thing that was recently updated 20:35:39 The fee/byte is standard and cakes implementation should be using wallet_2api which pulls from the daemon 20:36:56 hardenedsteel the recent change to auto https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9219 20:37:46 although sgp had some pushback on this here : https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9219#issuecomment-1984717390 20:37:59 im talking about cake wallet 20:38:08 at the time was working for cake, so hardenedsteels comments could be plausible 20:38:11 just checked right now and yes cake wallet uses non standard fees when auto selected 20:38:51 but the term none standard does not mean "it uses the wallet2 api and picks slow, instead of normal" 20:39:05 Send a tx and check it on the explorer for fee per byte 20:39:10 The fees are standard 20:39:51 then does estimated fee wrong? 20:40:27 their auto picks a different 'standard' priority, is what i think you are saying 20:40:32 estimated is wrong, yes 20:41:03 Their auto is fee prioritiy lvl 0 20:41:17 which could possibly have some finger printability going on, i dont know cc Rucknium 20:41:25 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/vyhdbtMoGJBghTRkctszzKTw 20:41:26 this is slow 20:41:39 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/uxVekTvCYmvvraQaTAaYRTjO 20:41:41 this is medium 20:41:43 this is auto 20:41:45 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/szzqZQAXditleEJWrTJTXkwL 20:41:57 why its between slow and medium? 20:41:58 yes that is a hardcoded value 20:42:18 this doesnt happen with feather wallet 20:42:28 begin the transaction and before pressing confirm it will show the real fee 20:45:11 Yes 20:45:14 Feather doesnt use hardcoded values 20:47:44 if (priority is MoneroTransactionPriority) { 20:47:44 switch (priority) { 20:47:46 case MoneroTransactionPriority.slow: 20:47:48 return 24590000; 20:47:50 case MoneroTransactionPriority.automatic: 20:47:52 return 123050000; 20:47:54 case MoneroTransactionPriority.medium: 20:47:56 return 245029999; 20:47:58 case MoneroTransactionPriority.fast: 20:48:00 return 614530000; 20:48:02 case MoneroTransactionPriority.fastest: 20:48:04 https://github.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/blob/main/cw_monero%2Flib%2Fmonero_wallet.dart#L337-L349 20:51:42 wtf whats the point of that? 20:52:27 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/PuSAzTefiuPqUhUrorIsbLdO 20:52:29 Being lazy 20:56:24 Ye 20:56:37 Stack _just_ got listed, and it leaks connections 20:56:39 don't try to be too specific, when just mentioning trackers should be enough 20:57:09 I was attacked and called a bad actor for pointing out when cake did this 20:57:15 So lets go for round 2 20:58:05 google font can try visitors IP any may includ 20:58:09 google font can try visitors IP 21:00:53 google font can track visitors IP 21:01:19 remind me which? 21:01:51 regarding Edge wallet trackers: they have sentry (https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/trackers/447/) for uploading possibly personal identifyable info for crach/error reports. Question is: if they have an Opt in/out for this, is it then ok? (i have never used edge wallet so i cant say) 21:01:54 All electrum nodes for all enabled wallets are contacted at launch, regardless of the sync setting 21:03:10 wait, cake wallet hard codes fees 21:03:25 only in the ui @plow 21:03:39 gotcha, the estimate screen. but the on chain tx is standard? 21:03:47 Yea 21:03:52 ohh ok 21:04:00 Once you press "send", the confirm screen shows the real fee 21:04:02 <321bob321:monero.social> Google good , ofrn bad 21:04:23 looking now. I recall you told this to me. Sorry for the delay. 21:04:30 the fee estimates are broken (in the gui, which uses a core wallet function) selsta can expand if needed 21:04:42 <321bob321:monero.social> They are just testing you 21:05:28 <321bob321:monero.social> Ledger confirm tx id , yes yes yolo 21:05:33 basicswap has estimate fee button, which sends the tx with do_not_relay and returns your exact fee 21:06:22 plowsof: I think the problem is it doesn't know the amount of inputs so it can't estimate the fee correctly 21:06:31 but maybe there is another issue i don't remember 21:06:35 Yes 21:07:37 The way that plowsof and i estimate the fee correctly, is with do_not_relay 21:10:20 (do_not_relay uses the actual inputs and shows the exact fees). Without knowing the inputs, you cant know the fees. Of course, one could code a function to mimic the input selection algo, but that sounds like a headache 21:11:09 its resource intensive too as it builds the entire transaction for nuthin, we need speed, we need hardcoded values! 21:11:40 the competition can't compete 21:11:45