16:12:17 <m-relay> <b​b3883:matrix.org> guyssssss
16:12:20 <m-relay> <b​b3883:matrix.org> hey chat
16:12:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Hi
16:12:44 <m-relay> <b​b3883:matrix.org> so how could one setup an exchange like platform with deposits and withdraws in miner on
16:12:45 <m-relay> <b​b3883:matrix.org> monero*
16:13:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Wrong room, probably
16:13:10 <m-relay> <b​b3883:matrix.org> because you can only send a few transactions at a time with monero
16:13:22 <m-relay> <b​b3883:matrix.org> idk what room to ask
16:13:27 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero
16:13:38 <m-relay> <b​b3883:matrix.org> okay thank you
17:26:50 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i would like to delist BTC ↔ fiat exchanges from the site
17:27:40 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> especially hodlhodl, they charge 1% fee + premiums for swapping
17:27:41 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> there are ones ?*
17:28:07 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ah yeah
17:28:38 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> make sense to delist hodl hodl. fwiw I would keep Bisq as Bisq2 is planning on adding native XMR/BTC swap. Could also add Haveno since last version is officially supporting mainnet
17:34:02 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> current bisq 2 is so useless imo, they don't have any escrow, its just messaging app
17:34:14 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> that lets you post your offers
17:39:33 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ah ok
17:39:41 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> well then replace the two by Haveno
17:39:49 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> well then replace the two by Haveno-reto
17:47:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Hodl hodl should be replaces with haveno, not reto
17:47:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And unstoppableswaps should be added to the list
17:49:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> bisq has xmr<>btc, same as unstoppableswaps. Shouldnt delist bisq for "only supporting btc<>xmr" considering unstoppable only supports btc<>xmr
17:51:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If we list "reto" we awt precendent for listing every splinter network that pops up. We can list "haveno" and add a "networks" section and list reto in the networks section of haveno
17:51:27 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I'm not even sure hodlhodl supports xmr _at all_
17:52:05 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> they dont, just offer makers do
17:52:16 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> https://hodlhodl.com/offers/sell?filters%5Bcurrency_code%5D=XMR&pagination%5Boffset%5D=0
17:53:09 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "Buying your BTC with MONERO ✅
17:53:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> HODL HODL DECIDED TO REMOVE MONERO AS PAYMENT METHOD, BUT WE WILL STILL TRADE WITH IT.
17:53:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "
17:53:20 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> https://hodlhodl.com/offers/JtvWWgUYKqWDrg3o
18:29:19 <plowsof> strange, so according to that, hodl hodl does not support monero but these rogue sellers are offering it anyway? 
18:30:56 <plowsof> haveno-reto won't be on getmonero lol
18:31:43 <plowsof> https://haveno.exchange/ announced that it was ready for mainnet, so we can wait ~1 year now 
18:32:11 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> any reason?
18:32:28 <plowsof> https://haveno.exchange/blog/ready-for-mainnet/ 
18:32:32 <plowsof> !remind me 1 year
18:33:05 <plowsof> haveno exchange " We do not endorse any networks at this time.", no further comments required 
18:42:02 <plowsof> haveno can go @ https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2091 
18:42:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "<p​lowsof> strange, so according to that, hodl hodl does not support monero but these rogue sellers are offering it anyway? " sounds like it
18:43:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont think haveno fits "build on monero" because its not really
18:43:10 <plowsof> png->avifs xD
18:43:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its build on bisq and uses multisig
18:44:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ans townforge too, thats more of a fork, like wownero
18:44:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its not using monero's blockchain or consensus mechanism (partially POS now)
18:44:40 <plowsof> justifications for such a page given here https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/1641
18:45:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think
18:45:23 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> s/hodlhodl/haveno + add unstoppableswaps
18:45:27 <plowsof> rude to say townforge is "slightly edited version of Monero," after al the work mooo put in 
18:45:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Erc's reasoning is flawed
18:46:35 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> primo > rpcpay = one of these is a service that uses rpc pay, one is rpc pay
18:47:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Townforge is a genesis fork, with different rules and different consensus, haveno is an exchang that runs on its own network, based on bisq
18:48:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> there are 100 different projects that can be listed with this group, including haven, salvium, localmonero, btcpayserver, moneropay, kuno
18:49:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero-lws, openmonero, mymonero
18:49:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monujo
18:50:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> basically anything that uses monero in any way 🙃
18:50:53 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "<p​lowsof> rude to say townforge is "slightly edited version of Monero," after al the work mooo put in " << agreed. Its its own beast
18:51:19 <plowsof> well, haveno without monero would cease to exist as the trades depend on multisig+monero tech 
18:51:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> wownero is a "slightly edited version of monero"
18:51:52 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > *slightly*
18:52:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Haveno is an exchange that uses monero functions for trading monero, same as localmonero
18:52:05 <plowsof> haven (a fork) without monero would cease to exist , but that is a fork and proposed conditions where "no forks" . btcpayserver does not use monero as such, its just a supported coin 
18:52:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Any wallet can be considered in the same breath
18:52:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "<p​lowsof> haven (a fork) without monero would cease to exist , but that is a fork and proposed conditions where "no forks" . btcpayserver does not use monero as such, its just a supported coin " townforge is a fork
18:53:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Btcpayserver and haveno both use monero-wallet-rpc to send and receive transactionsb
18:53:18 <plowsof> remove monero from btcpayserver and what do you have?
18:53:34 <plowsof> remove monero from bsx, same thing 
18:53:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Xmrbazaar, localmonero, haveno, rino (rip) all use monero multisig
18:54:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They are just wallet interfaces that depend on certain functionality to send monero transactions.
18:55:04 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> multisig isnt some magic backend feature, its just a wallet transaction
18:56:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Haveno uses haveno network to relay messages, not multisig. Multsig is just for escrow. Using multisig doesnt put you in some magic new category
19:00:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> any service that focuses on monero (like kuno) would fit the category, even though its just a UI that lets you interact with for monero features. rino js another good example of a product that supports monero (but isnt built on monero).
19:00:30 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The best example of a "built on monero" work be townforge _if_ it used monero blockchain, or haveno _if_ it used monero for communications
19:02:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Imo, primo might be the only valid option, since its a ddos system that utilizes the monero blockchain in a non-standard method. Forcing users to perform POW to prevent ddos, using monero's difficulty to pay for the ddos
19:03:33 <plowsof> maybe EquiX?
19:03:47 <plowsof> build on randomx hm
19:04:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its different than randomx iirc
19:04:29 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> we need to revive primo
19:04:43 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> we all know they wont endorse forever and why
19:04:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Why?
19:05:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I also dont know why it took them like 6 months to (re)announce mainnet
19:05:35 <plowsof> lol
19:06:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Oh wait. They must have announced to remind ppl about kraken?
19:07:54 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Haveno not speaking the name if any network is funny tbh. as id feds will think haveno disnt know about reto, while accepting patches from and providing guidance to them
19:08:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> As if* feds
19:08:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "youre honor.. i've never heard of reto in my life"
19:11:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I swear I wouldn't have built this tool if i knew "reto" would make use of it
19:12:31 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> unstable
19:12:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> they literally announced it 6months ago
19:13:00 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> and this is the only official announcement
19:13:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No this is not the only official announcement
19:13:54 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> from haveno.exchange, yes
19:14:02 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> I asked woodser in his room
19:14:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> haveno.exchange website was dead
19:14:19 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> every github release includes a changelog about it can be used on mainnet
19:14:21 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> how
19:14:42 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> Running Haveno
19:14:43 <m-relay> <h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> ...Haveno can be used on Monero's main network by using a third party Haveno network. We do not officially endorse any networks at this time. Alternatively, you can start your own network.
19:15:30 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thanks hardened
19:15:45 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> Haveno software had many bugs that needed to be ironed out, before seriously recommending it
19:16:04 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> Haveno software had many bugs that needed to be ironed out before seriously recommending it
19:16:29 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/releases/tag/1.0.5
19:17:23 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Went to from beta to v1.0.0 7 months ago
19:18:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Dont play word games. It was officially released and announced as released 6+ months ago. 
19:18:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> it was recommended against usage when it was v0.xx
19:18:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> As of v1.0.5 it was literally _instructed_  as to how to run your own network.
19:20:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Being _told_ to run a network is the opposite of a "YMMV" non-recommendation
19:21:42 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> this is what woodser said, not me
19:23:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> woodser also released haveno 7 months ago
19:24:23 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nobody ever recommended _against_ using haveno. Except for the banmonero.com guy
19:29:59 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> I was answering your question
19:30:03 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> .
19:30:13 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> I was simply answering your question