05:52:32 btc address should stay 05:52:58 in case satoshi decides to donate his coins to monero 05:53:14 imagine the headlines 07:19:17 facts 13:50:56 Hey, with pleasure will answer any additional questions about our pr #2318, wonna sort it out till following deploy of merchants page 18:59:42 revise your ToS 19:01:09 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Criteria for adding exchanges ? 19:03:08 no, but their current ToS is very strict 19:03:17 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2318#issuecomment-2229467316 19:14:54 we list simpleswap 19:16:45 The main issue is that they work with complaint exchanges and that non-fungible funds are going to be frozen at will by any and all compliant exchanges 19:17:39 the same funds being flagged by quickex, changenow etc, will be flagged by kraken, okx, binance etc 19:18:18 The main question should be "do we list cex's?" 19:18:39 <3​21bob321:monero.social> After KYC verification, the client will be refunded with a deduction of a 5% commission. (in total 10%) 19:18:40 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Lol 19:29:06 commission on refund is call stealing 19:29:13 just sayin 19:33:00 passthrough swappers are a hard sell for listing, since its all the same thing just in a different wrapper 19:33:46 we also need to test the swappers and check the fees used to know if the swappers or their partners are using fingerprintable fees 20:05:24 fixedfloat were using non standard fees afaik 20:05:28 i warned them but didnt care 20:05:39 they hacked twice anyways lol 20:06:04 I thought theyr fees were standard 20:06:07 Their 20:06:40 their fees were abnormally high but not sure if standard or not 20:09:51 i remember when stealthex where trying to get listed on getmonero. a rep appeared on monerotopia and it seemed to be a very important question for viewers to know what happens when a transaction is flagged . the swap is refused, and the funds are returned, which was the answer that people wanted to hear 20:14:14 stealthex are currently a C on trocador, so not perfect. fixedfloat is a B 20:15:47 no idea how ranks work of course. "wizardswap" is an A on trocador, never heard of it, i do live under a rock so its hard for me to judge swappers 20:17:04 a test swap of 600~usd equiv of btc -> xmr has every swapper in the list 100% insured, except quick-ex who is 0% insured on troc.. so theyre not happy with something 20:18:14 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Create a slush fund for testing swappers before adding to website ? 20:21:46 quickex responded about trocador above 20:22:23 "> <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> My main question would be how come you were demoted from ~b to ~d ranking on trocador? Was there some failed aml dispute ? 20:22:24 quickex: 20:22:26 Our status should have changed to "B" again soon, already waiting the feedback from Trocador. 20:22:28 It wasnt because of failed disputes, there were some cases when our LP stopped orders because of some suspended actions - like splitting the funds (but all the customers who sent the docs, got refund). Trocador didnt like it and downgrade us. And last month we were working on integration with new LPs and recently finalized it. 20:22:30 Btw we counted amount of AML cases and it was 0,2% from whole amount of thousands of orders. " 20:23:16 <3​21bob321:monero.social> But still have the requirement for aml 20:24:56 wizardswap and LetsExchange are rated A, why dont we list them 20:25:26 wizardswap has their own reserves, exch does too, i believe changenow does as well 20:25:38 Changenow does their own aml checks 20:26:29 Ive never used letsexchange. Ive actually spoken to Wizardswap admin. Particl community member 20:27:38 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Changenow took 1 day once to swap during the “great useage war” 20:29:35 wizardswap failed for me before (during ddos) and i had to contact them manually for a refund. 20:29:36 A rated exchanges on trocador have their own reserves and dont check aml afaik. So if letsexchange is A rated, i assume they have their own reserves as well 20:30:47 to me, stealthex seems to be the typical swapper without its own reserves that has LP's 20:31:40 i cant find any commision scraping or 0% refund if no kyc is given after 30 days (shotgun kyc... but... fixedfloat are known for this.. we list them, and theyre a B on troc) 20:31:42 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Maybe we add critera =p2p or dex 20:31:57 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Cex no no 20:32:23 sorry, we _used_ to list FF* 20:34:50 we have no criteria :( i've seen wallet2 fees, your own liquidity (proof of reserves? how often? and how much monero?) , hidden service a plus, is there shotgun kyc (like quickex) or are funds returned like stealthex claimed 20:38:02 Shotgunkyc isnt quickex, but their partners 20:38:18 Quickex has a feature to check the funds before sending that can avoid the kyc tho 20:38:59 and i almost guarantee that kraken etc are also going to block your dirty btc deposits 20:44:26 its the commission which in my small view of swappers (glancing at our swpapers kyc/aml docs is abnormal). it could be justifiable if it where 5% or max $XYZ to cover their admin work during the due diligence checks/investigation 20:45:08 checking funds before sending is a huge ++ 20:46:24 The big joke is that the aml issues arent monero issues 20:46:36 I dont think any swapper has ever blocked a monero deposit 20:48:30 "They blocked my mixed btc!!" Sounds like a bitcoin problem, not a swapper problem, and not a monero problem 20:48:40 yeah morpheus confirmed, xmr has zero issues. fungible 😭 20:49:13 that does not exclude people from the generic aml checks where amounts are in excess of xyz 20:49:22 or does it? i dont know 20:49:42 quickex confirmed to me in DM that amounts for xmr has never been an isssue 20:49:54 That all issues were deposits of transparent coins 20:50:26 so why can stealthex simply return the dity coins without taking 100% of them 20:51:01 Lmaolmao binance i think? 20:51:41 They put out a newsletter years ago saying that if you deposit mweb ltc that they wont refund it 20:51:52 let me find it 20:52:19 https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/notice-on-deposits-and-withdrawals-of-litecoin-ltc-utilizing-mimblewimble-extension-blocks-mweb-61d4510b1ada4ba78b5384e8c2d3527c 20:52:40 "Any LTC deposits made to Binance through the MWEB function will not be received or returned as we are unable to verify the sender's address, resulting in the direct loss of funds. To ensure security of your funds, please do not deposit LTC through the MWEB function." 20:52:59 Binance stole funds and didn't give a fk hahah 20:53:29 "2022-06-13" 20:53:44 if quickex present them selves as a CEX then 100% after 30 days would be fine then 20:53:49 sadly they are an instant swapper 20:55:51 need to clarify why only they(?) charge a 5% commission and and take 100% if no kyc provided in 30 days. if that 5% or 100% thing is their liquidity provider(s) then why are they using that LP.. and how is stealthex finding LPs that let em return dirty coins :S 20:56:32 if binance is a LP than what is quickex supposed to do if someone deposits mweb? 20:56:43 All of the LP's are compliant exchanges 20:57:01 do quickex support mweb 20:57:18 Almost no swapper does 20:57:37 Trocador warns against sending mweb to a lot of their partners. 20:57:49 I imagine wizardswap and exch are exceptions 20:58:13 Trocador also warns against sending mixed funds 20:58:19 iirc mweb is coming to cake? so that would be interesting 20:58:35 Cake has mweb already 20:59:01 shameless plug: Basicswap is also an mweb wallet 21:08:25 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Shill 21:09:38 What can i say? Litecoin is cheapest on bsx and monero is better rate than wizard or exch 21:12:10 by judging from their site; it works without javascript + has .onion link + no ToS 21:12:46 however pretty expensive 2.2% 21:32:34 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2410 21:35:03 Your suggestions are basically "dex-only"? 21:35:44 i didn't suggest anything yet 21:36:30 The examples you gave 21:36:42 No kyc excludes every traditional cex 21:36:59 its just example, we may have scoring system instead 21:37:10 i'm not against delisting every traditional cex 21:37:43 i suggest for `Exchange must support (integrate) XMR natively. (This would delist Bisq and HodlHodl.)` 21:37:57 But kyc is a choice, not a requisite 21:38:12 Some ppl have no problem with kyc 21:38:49 there should be no expectation of a "no-kyc" experience when using a regulated service 21:39:39 Dv chain is an otc liq provider. Expecting them to be no-kyc is just idealism that has nothing to do with monero 21:40:04 Monero isnt an anarchy coin, its money period. 21:40:24 Now, i agree with removing services that dont support xmr natively, like hodl and bisq 21:41:39 From my limited experience as a reddit moderator, most posts asking where to buy never mention hold and surprisingly very rarely bisq 21:41:43 I also think we should list established and monero focused directories like monerica and xmrbazaar 21:42:24 because why we're advising buy BTC then swap 21:43:39 the elephant in the room isnt merchants or dex - those are easy 21:43:52 The elephant is what to do about traditional cex and swappers 21:44:17 No 21:44:28 The real elephant in the room is why luigi is called luigi in the first place 21:44:32 Nintendo could sue monero project 21:44:56 they shouldn't be listed if they're not interested in XMR 21:44:57 Luigi is the real luigi. Ninentendo modelled the char after him 21:45:10 brb 21:45:14 Bisq is interested 21:45:17 we're advertising their site and we get literally nothing. 21:45:32 I mean Bisq2 21:45:32 they always ignored XMR community 21:45:53 They are literally going to implement Native BTC/XMR swap in Bisq2 21:45:59 90-95% of bisq volume is XMR and they refuse to add XMR/Fiat in bisq2 21:46:40 ah ok, i thought we were talking of swapping not just fiat onramp 21:47:21 there are many swappers at this moment, fiat is the problem 21:47:43 there are many place you can buy cryptocurrency then swap to monero 21:53:29 * Privacy 21:53:30 * Non-custody 21:53:32 * FOSS 21:53:34 * Fiat support 21:53:36 * Integration of XMR 21:56:15 Would you call Hveno non-custody? 21:56:50 yes 22:07:00 Haveno is non-custodial but its in a grey area for decentralization 22:08:17 Gm maybe grey area for non-custodial as well, since disputed trades are no longer non custodial, but shared custody 22:08:38 S/gm/hmm 22:10:45 I'm not sure i'd refer to unstoppable swaps as decentralized, but it is non-custodial and trustless 22:12:09 btw Quickex is moving forward to operating with own liquidity but no ETA yet 22:16:32 thats why we implemented the feature of aml check score, just in case. 22:17:39 Would like to confirm again, these transfers that were blocked were deposits of not-monero, right? 22:18:12 And was monero involved in the transfer at all? (buying or selling monero) 22:18:12 hodlhodl works in same way 22:18:27 yep, also discussed with Trocador, exchanges which have A rate - operate with own liquidity 22:18:35 hodlhodl is a centralized network tho 22:19:46 Haveno is an mostly decentralized network but requires centralized functionality to utilize functionality 22:20:15 exactly, that actually helped us to prevent some clients making the deposits and get blocks afterwards 22:21:10 Were the blocked swaps deposits of xmr? 22:22:30 Nope, We can guarantee no blocks on XMR swaps 22:23:26 this is a point i'm trying to make. Any exchange blocking abc btc coin isnt a monero issue, its an issue with their blockchain 22:24:22 On the plus side, this guarantees that the transparent surveillance coins that you get from quicker are "clean" 22:25:07 Whereas exchanges like wizard or bsx might send your "dirty" coins 22:25:19 Absolutely. If we are talking only about XMR swaps - 100% greenlight from Quickex side 22:27:38 And ofc exchanges which operate with their own liquidity basically have -5% worse rate and kinda high chance to get dirty coins in return 22:29:48 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) monero should be 20%