02:10:26 can someone review/approve pr 2550? thanks. 02:17:02 Need consensus 02:18:40 i don't personally have a preference about whether to list retoswap alone, or whether to list haveno and have retoswap as a sub-listing. 02:18:41 It was sub-listed before, now is standalone 02:20:06 Issue with standalone is that there can be many different haveno networks (currently is 1 in use, potentially 2 that are "live" (i havent checked out dawnswap)), but i imagine more will pop up after reto starts charging fees 02:21:31 today, there is only 1 notable haveno network, so it seems sane to list it as standalone. But if in the future there are 2+, i think it would make more sense to list as sublistings 02:22:22 Listing as sub from day 1 saves from having to go through drama of changing how it is listed in the future, but who's to say that there will ever be more than 1? 02:22:50 neither do I but it seems like hardenedsteel suggested it'd be better as standalone. 02:23:22 fair 02:25:00 hardened also pointed out that retoswap has not-great support / mediation 02:25:30 But people will recommend it mostly because its the only option for p2p fiat<->xmr 02:27:19 yeah that's true 02:28:31 anyway, id like to hear more opinions on whether to list clones / instances as standalone, or as sublistings to haveno 02:31:07 Thats the main reason i havent approved, is i would might lean towards sublistings half the time. So would like other views 02:32:57 yeah sure, let's see if someone else chimes in 03:20:35 https://haveno.exchange/ does not endorse any networks at this time, but getmonero will because people want it there, i assume the same people also want it to be on haveno.exchange but for some reason? 03:21:47 core would have to merge such a PR imo 07:00:49 I don't usually care too much what happens with the website, but I happened to read ofrnxmr 's comment today that PR #2550, the one to add add Retoswap, might profit from some opinions. So I had a look. 07:03:10 The PR as-is, with Retoswap its own "tile", looks ok to me. I don't see any need to bring some hierarchy into this because in the future there may be more networks based on Haveno technology. Seems to me we can easily add e.g. 2 more such "tiles" for 2 more such networks, still without any two-level presentation, first level "Haveno" and second level the individual networks. 07:04:19 The text now clearly mentions the relationship between Haveno and Retoswap, which is necessary, and sufficient how it's proposed in that PR. 07:07:19 I can add this my opinion to the PR if you think that's useful. 07:11:04 About also linking to Retoswap from haveno.exchange, like plowsof asked yesterday: In my understanding that is something to decidedly **not** to do. I understand haveno.exchange to be part of the Haveno project, and that project shall not endorse or recommend any particular "hot" trade network. If some law enforcement should ever move against Retoswap, the Haveno project should be 07:11:05 able to fully stay out of that, with the argument that they have nothing to do with it. 07:11:55 With links to it of course you undermine this IMHO important argument. 08:22:15 site is deployed and v0.18.4.4 binaries are now available 08:47:31 thanks binaryFate 09:26:04 .merges 09:26:04 Merge queue empty 09:33:38 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Rip 12:41:43 Makes sense 12:46:23 So basically you like it standalone. In case if any new network appears, you are okay with giving it an individual tile. 13:33:09 since we talking about exchanges - had this idea for the new website. 13:33:11 Split the "merchants and exchanges" section into two parts: "Merchants" and "Exchanges". "Exchanges" would go into the "Getting started" section, "Merchants" would stay in the community section. 13:33:13 "Exchanges" would contain a collection of exchanges where monero is on P2P tools etc, and to really improve the UX and frictionless for newcomers - could even integrate some kind of trusted swap provider iframe on the page like it is on https://bitcoin.org/en/buy. Trocador, OrangeFren, or any other that is privacy-aligned (ideally replaced with a frictionless Serai frontend when i 13:33:15 t launches someday) 13:33:17 A big criticism of Monero i see is that it is difficult to buy it despite not really being the case, lots of people always ask in Telegram/Discord "how to buy Monero", "is this safe" - having a specific section for just that in the page, right in the getting started area would be a UX plus for newcomers. 13:33:19 The user story would be improved too, the flow for the "Start using Monero" section could be as such: 13:33:21 - 1. Choose a wallet - links to /downloads 13:33:23 - 2. Get coins - links to /exchanges 13:33:25 - 3. Use Monero - links to /merchants 13:33:27 Thoughts? 13:35:02 >could even integrate some kind of trusted swap provider iframe on the page like it is on https://bitcoin.org/en/buy. 13:35:03 on monero website? 13:36:28 >A big criticism of Monero i see is that it is difficult to buy it despite not really being the case 13:36:29 it depends, a lot of countries ban monero and leave other shitcoins. 13:38:29 Yes, personally not big on integrating any kind of iframe as it kind of undermines the neutrality of the page, but it would be a definite UX improvement imo 13:39:01 Hm, could filter by locale 13:39:12 Although thats not really foolproof, nvm 13:41:21 nah. I wouldn't introduce any extra attack vectors. I think we will also block and reduce attack vectors using CSPs. 13:42:10 Fair enough, what about the section split itself? 13:44:04 sounds good 13:44:30 also we striving to do like https://doc.qubes-os.org/en/latest/introduction/faq.html#should-i-trust-this-website 13:45:47 distrust the website 13:46:33 but there haven't been any discussion about setting it up the same way the do it with signing etc 13:46:43 i think both should remain under community 13:48:25 Finding "exchanges" shouldnt be "hidden" under getting started - should be right beside merchants 13:48:29 I was talking about getting started setup 13:48:31 agree 13:54:27 clarifying, meant for exchanges to go here, in the "Get Started" dropdown instead of the "Community" - next to accept monero and mining 13:54:29 as to get started with Monero you do have to buy it or mine it 13:54:31 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/tsxVhtZwzpQWWOjSPkEXXYHA 13:54:33 actually I think we didn't understand red's proposal 13:55:10 or accept it 13:57:25 Merchants and exchanges should be in the same section 13:57:58 That's not the case aswell, you can buy btc or some other coin which is not banned and swap it to monero using a vpn. 13:58:12 fees 13:58:32 one is how to obtain or sell monero, the other is how to spend or earn 13:58:54 I guess makes sense for both to go in getting started in that case 13:59:04 and comparing it to just buying the coin, it is a bit of more steps to just get the coin 13:59:16 I believe they are under community. Because none are endorsed 13:59:41 I believe they are under community because none are endorsed 14:00:12 But they would probably fit under getting started 14:00:47 you had me confused with the descriptions of community dropdown menu cards 14:01:14 Juat buying the coin (with fiat) typically has highest fees as well :) 14:01:29 yeah, "section" is ambigous, mb 14:02:06 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/wODFYPXQQXrZjucPPNTFGpfK 14:02:13 I meant these 14:03:16 Yeah random for now 14:03:44 existing site has a disclaimer footer of non-endorsment at the bottom for those sections - can be ported over to make that clear, cause i think they are a better fit in getting started imo 14:07:30 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/xtqObIpJshYZbmiemEYSsHMi 14:07:36 so u basically want it like that redsh4de? 14:07:56 or below "Accept Monero" 14:09:38 sec, gonna arrange the items 14:10:10 you can sketch stuff, no need to do live changes on the website 14:12:25 im running a live refresh locale instance, its easier to make changes in there quickly then take a screencap 14:14:44 but yes, effectively both items would go in get started, arranged in a way that kind of tells a story 14:14:45 1 - what is monero? (user learns what it is about) 14:14:47 2 - buy monero (user purchases his first coins) 14:14:49 3 - accept monero (if a merchant, potentially wants to accept) 14:14:51 4 - spend monero (after accepting/buying, next step is spending it somewhere) 14:14:53 5 - contribute 14:14:55 6 - faq 14:15:01 but yes, effectively both items would go in get started, arranged in a way that kind of tells a story 14:15:03 1 - what is monero? (user learns what it is about) 14:15:05 2 - buy monero (user purchases his first coins) 14:15:07 3 - accept monero (if a merchant, potentially wants to accept) 14:15:09 4 - spend monero (after accepting/buying, next step is spending it somewhere) 14:15:11 5 - contribute 14:15:13 6 - mining 14:15:15 6 - faq 14:20:09 all that in "Getting started"? What is most important part is the first web page. 14:20:13 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/FKNGXKQSqGWdLdWOwPHHAdvt 14:20:25 especially this. 14:21:22 Send Monero/Use Monero links to user-guides 14:22:58 ends up having the same item count as the current resources section 14:24:24 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/nykJwGtiMqCUisNTcAiiUDXj 14:25:51 hmm, actually makes sense 14:26:16 but now you have used up the icon for "Sponsorships" for "Spend Monero" lol 14:30:54 will see what other thinks of this change to "Getting started" menu and for the icon we can modify https://www.flaticon.com/free-icon/spending_10758854?term=spending&page=1&position=1&origin=tag&related_id=10758854 by removing the dollar icon and change it to Monero Diego Salazar 14:31:29 unless diego have other icon idea on his mind 14:39:01 theres some crossover here 14:40:43 I think 14:40:45 What is monero | faq 14:40:47 buy | spend & earn* 14:40:49 accept* | mining 14:40:51 contribute 14:42:12 Spend & earn include stuff like xmrbazaar, where you can create offers to sell goods and services 14:42:13 Accept would be to tools like btcpayserver, woocommerce etc 14:42:46 I think merchants and exchanges were probably one page because buy, spend, and earn, can be the same platforms 14:45:31 where is "Spend & Earn"? 14:45:46 i guess you can do 14:45:47 buy/sell (exchages) | spend/earn (merchants and classifieds) 14:45:49 accept (merchant tools) | mining 14:57:43 smth like this 14:57:47 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/CJXPWzXSuhlruJcWwhyhUauc 14:58:26 Yup 15:22:40 ofrnxmr what do you think? got any counterarguments? 15:25:15 why spend is on the right not below Accept? HODL mindset? 15:30:00 Accept is for merchant tools like woocommerce 15:30:09 Buy and spend go together 15:31:13 Buy and spend = consumer stuff 15:31:15 accept and mining = producer stuff 15:38:16 the flow of the cards in rows - buy and spend are meant to be together in one row 15:53:23 why am I seeing two different ofrnxmrs 15:55:02 Because there are 2 ofrns 15:56:26 Huh, who's who 16:31:05 is this what you wanted basses? https://github.com/plowsof/monero-site/releases thoughts on this? each deployment tag it as a release - tag name/title could just be yyyymmdd i guess 16:35:27 Use the "auto generate" feature 16:35:32 :P 16:36:33 That shows contributors, acks first time contributors, lists commits or prs in a cleaner formemat 16:37:31 ofrnxmr im still crying because i did click auto generate , and thats what it gave me 16:38:05 Oh, probably because its on personal repo 16:38:38 ah ok, ill check -site (without pushing) 16:39:03 should work right? -_- tags = date of deploy so yyyymmdd is sane? 16:45:37 Yeah, i think thats sane 16:55:10 p​lowsof, kinda yeah thanks but more normies friendly like https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/releases 16:55:52 also like the ones for KDE and GNOME etc 16:56:26 but they do it on their site, so privacyguides way is more suitable for us 16:58:12 Thats what The auto-gen does 16:59:10 Plowsof's example is just missing it because his repo doesnt have the pull requests 17:53:08 Also 20:47:54 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/releases/tag/2025-11-19 rando ofrnxmr (luigi1111 helped reverting the init branch before i destroyed everything, thanks) 20:48:56 thanks sir 20:49:32 can close https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2453 20:51:00 thanks for requesting 21:16:32 THANKS FOR IGNORING MY NACK. (Srsly stfu, it looks good) 21:17:04 Thanks for suggest, rando 23:09:58 <3​21bob321:monero.social> DDMMYY where not heathens 23:25:30 we use ISO 'round here