00:06:59 better? 00:07:00 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/cypherstack.com/hJbrSeumGlpHLkeclitZluRE.png (image.png) 01:10:05 I say: use the duck 01:10:44 The main thing i dont like, is the ledger & trezor 01:11:27 Too obvious looking of a brand endorsement 01:12:05 thats a kastello enclosure 01:12:06 Soon you'll have coinwallet asking to have their products put into "official" imagery 01:23:02 <321bob321> Is that the ledger with 24/25 01:33:40 One of those 06:27:51 We are building a product on web3 platform where we are simplifying crypto finance step by step for noob user and also for geek user like 06:27:51 1. User comes to platform and he will buy crypto with the help of p2p 06:27:51 2. after buying crypto he will have option to invest it via staking and liquidity pools 06:27:51 3. we are creating marketplace for crypto where user will have options to buy services this will help us to create circular economy[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/78jEg9EKNmRvT1Jr ] 06:33:26 <321bob321> Xmrc 20 ? 08:09:26 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/koXCqYUlhBCuGSJIfysjjWJj.png (image.png) > <@diego:cypherstack.com> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/cypherstack.com/hJbrSeumGlpHLkeclitZluRE.png (image.png) 08:55:27 lgtm, the cargo pants are a nice fit 09:01:00 light mode 09:01:08 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/PJSmXJGmUgMzcdOPsYhumOxX.png (image.png) 10:37:19 Having a gradient fade out around the border of the image would be better i think > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/koXCqYUlhBCuGSJIfysjjWJj.png (image.png) 10:37:35 YES I'LL SPAM IRC 10:45:44 @syntheticbird: you mean like so? 10:45:47 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/obtzjhafcvTTzRCBlxdzpJRo.png (image.png) 10:46:02 yep 10:46:08 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/FAJDaqIZJYMDaNqvZbdLpyoS.png (image.png) 10:46:11 ye looks nice 13:41:19 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/phDgZlFFtAZICdMSBdIdPSai.png (image.png) 13:41:50 thoughts on something like this for the exchange page? 13:41:50 the items would either link to a table with the option, or using :target highlight specific items in a table 13:42:18 thinking about what kind of UI would be the most helpful to someone who has just heard about Monero 13:43:01 @diego:cypherstack.com: 13:57:16 Too hard to put things in those categories 13:59:18 Any suggestions? 13:59:31 1. Any exchange can be used for that. Cex, dex, p2p, atomic swaps 13:59:31 2. Obv some things from the other sections also support fiat 13:59:31 3. Some privacy focused decentralized exchanges do have central authorities 14:00:44 @redsh4de:matrix.org: Probably something like current site, or a matrix like current sites download page, or like new sites download page 14:05:52 @ofrnxmr: 1. That section's meant specifically for newcomers - was made with the thought to prioritize frictionless avenues when addressing newcomers, and instant swap exchanges are that - no need to make accounts, download binaries or run nodes - click a button, enter address, send and done. The idea is to have a table of [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/vu_RkNEKMFo5VzBq ] 14:05:52 2. Table would have two rows - crypto and fiat, with checkbox or cross 14:05:52 3. Fixed by changing the description 14:07:34 I'll do a quick mockup of the full thing i had in mind - but with the tables/matrix this would be like a sidebar which would highlight all rows that apply, smth of that sort > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/phDgZlFFtAZICdMSBdIdPSai.png (image.png) 14:08:30 1. We dont want to list instant exchanges. Too many problems. And atomic swaps are technically better, but higher friction. 14:08:47 What about aggregators? 14:09:14 Trocador/OrangeFren 14:10:17 we also don't list em, though better than listing exchanges directly. Its been suggested to just point to kycnot.me instead 14:12:01 fwiw there are a few instant swappers listed on the current page 14:12:01 Generally for something like this a disclaimer bar can be added "anything listed here is not a endorsement, informational purposes only etc" right on top of everything 14:12:20 Most swappers are doing 10-50 confs (20-100mins), so i personally wouldnt recommend using them 14:12:25 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ^ 14:13:01 they were added long ago, issues, havent delisted yet 14:13:27 New swappers pop up every couple weeks and want to be listed, half of them scams 14:14:35 Other half do selective scamming, send specially constructed txs, have 100min swap times, etc 14:14:47 true, in that case listing aggregators would be a good middle ground then for convenient access to newcomers? Trusted, vetting of scams offloaded to them 14:14:47 I think there are three off the top of my head - Trocador, OrangeFren and Cyphergoat 14:19:26 i think the consensus was to point to kycnot.me, but listing the aggregators is still better (for us) than listing / vetting individual swappers 14:20:14 And eigenwallet & basicswapdex are better instsnt swappers as well 14:20:38 Truly trustless and also faster 14:21:28 But they arent web-based / require software installation 14:22:25 when erc was site maintainer merchants where stopped being accepted because of the time and upkeep they require, we've seen it with some recent ones https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+label%3A%22Listing+request%22 14:23:45 s/merchants/instant exchangers mainly 14:27:10 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2430 14:27:10 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2508 14:27:10 godex scamming ppl 14:30:01 plowsof: @redsh4de:matrix.org , note that i ACK'd listing aggregators, but there was never consensus on that 14:31:45 (im not just being a hater.) There have been numerous suggestions to use kycnot.me as well. 14:32:17 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2045#issuecomment-3616954828 14:33:17 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: kycnot.me can def be listed at the bottom together with cryptwerk like on the current site , outside of the table layout, so there is a dedicated freeform section for other resources that may not fit in the matrix/table layout 14:35:09 https://kycnot.me/?categories=aggregator¤cy-mode=or¤cies=xmr 14:35:34 im looking it like so: how many links does a user need to click in order to get to where they want to, the less the better 14:35:34 if there are only 3-4 options and that list does not seem to change, i think it would be better to list those aggregators outright, one less link to click + fits in with the rest relatively well 14:36:28 kycnot.me has ratings and reviews 14:36:44 one less link to click but chatgpt does not have to do any leg work for when people complain about them 14:36:57 UX++ but humans have to maintain this 14:39:58 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Usually better than trustpilot etc 14:42:14 I guess for the aggregator section it could be some pretty button linking to kycnot.me with the filter applied if listing the aggregators is a no go, or some combo of both 14:45:28 https://github.com/cyphergoat is an open source aggregator so the bar for a new service to be created is much lower 14:50:55 Note that cyphergoat, trocador, and orangefren are all run by community members 15:29:36 fwiw this is what i had in mind 15:29:46 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/lCpiXpbfaZYDYzpIyKWkwDsV.png (image.png) 15:30:03 you click on any of the sidebar items, it highlights the appropriate rows 15:30:24 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qxzCJpJpRUPrsMPHDqoDDJMp.png (image.png) 15:30:31 all without JS 15:31:34 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/HlOUiaYTsDsuqUfrrZBZntHS.png (image.png) 15:33:23 aggregators etc aside (that can just be turned into one big kycnot.me button) - what about the overall concept? trying to UX-maxx here 15:49:02 general concept looks good. Not a fan of some of the descriptions. id sort sections alphabetically, and id also put decentralized section first 15:54:57 Retoswap isnt anonymous when you have to provide banking details. 15:54:57 bisq and retoswap can arguably be referred to has having intermediaries (since reto doesnt work without being able to communicate with them). 15:54:57 So i'd remove mentions of intermediaries and anonymous from the decentralized sections.[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/8qzhk9EKTVZCZG9N ] 15:55:35 And aggregators might not hold your funds, but the swappers do 15:56:27 And "no kyc" for trocador is only true if you use an A rated exchange and dont send stolen funds. Even some A rated exchanges will perform AML checks and freeze the swap if the funds are tainted 15:58:09 And eigenwallet is "ability to purchase xmr" (its not <->. You have to run a different addon program to go from xmr -> btc) 16:26:50 idk 16:26:55 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XkXulUxnGldspNOXgKWLrpEB.png (image.png) 16:28:42 idea: if the aggregator table is kept, the URL in the table can link to the kycnot.me URL of that service 16:28:42 for example https://kycnot.me/service/trocador 16:29:09 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qeCFNmZpXFgaQVageYtjTLUx.png (image.png) 16:29:09 first thing the user would see 16:33:25 I think this is probably ok > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XkXulUxnGldspNOXgKWLrpEB.png (image.png) 16:34:56 Id also put that bisq is btc<->xmr only. You cant buy xmr using anything else there 16:34:58 (fiat is only <-> btc) 16:48:48 Maintain a list of aggregators and also link kycnitme? 16:53:46 there is a case to be made for that - couple long running ones that people tend to refer to and are considered legitimate, and a full list via kycnotme 16:53:59 same thing with no table would look roughly like this 16:54:05 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/YWRhmwdUJffsjfidbzpoXyur.png (image.png) 16:54:54 which option out of all three - up to everyone else 16:55:11 +1 for this one ^ 18:50:02 order can be randomised at each deploy 😄 18:50:12 thats doable too :D 18:56:52 Personally, it hurts my brain when things arent sorted logically 18:56:57 Sane goes for wallets page 18:57:42 Looking for something shouldnt require reading the entire page to find it 19:01:44 @ofrnxmr: And merchants page 19:07:44 reverse alphabetical order? 19:33:01 Numerical 🧠, using chinese numbers 🧠🧠 20:43:30 <321bob321> Layout in arabic way 22:20:20 mobile could look like this 22:20:25 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qLPKVBPLGcMzNkOPRWuNPItm.png (image.png) 22:21:09 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/zIBWrkjmyHmYlvRewcXpEaLE.png (image.png)