00:43:36 What's the easiest, most pain-free, most straightforward way for someone who's never dealt with cryptocurrencies before to buy some Monero to use to pay for something? 00:49:52 probably LocalMonero if they have someone local. Maybe Kraken if in the US and don't mind KYC 00:52:49 not US 00:53:02 Also . . . I've seen Kraken, and most people would find its UI opaque, I think. 00:53:35 This may be too much for this particular person, really. I'm just hoping. . . . 00:55:13 maybe but the number of places to buy XMR directly is pretty limited. but you could have them from coinbase or whatever the lcoal version is to cake wallet, I guess. changenow might be an option with credit card? never used it as a fiat gateway 01:12:26 Coinbase doesn't support Monero. 01:12:46 I don't know anything about changenow, but I'll look that up. 01:14:34 right but cake wallet supports btc <> xmr swaps 01:14:46 or ltc <> xmr 01:30:35 Yeah, then . . . buying one cryptocurrency to buy another. 01:30:38 hmm 01:31:03 Things get too complicated very quickly for some people to bother. 01:40:58 yea 02:26:10 apotheon: Kraken's legacy UI is a wasteland yeah but they also have a much better one powered by cryptowat.ch, at https://trade.kraken.com 02:28:03 That does not look comprehensible to an average person who's used to something like the Amazon UI for buying something. 02:28:44 To most people, that looks like science fiction. 02:31:41 that's how u know it's cool 02:44:39 .xmr 02:44:40 apotheon: ≈$270.1128 • ≈ value of: 1 XMR • Source: cmc/ccc/altm 02:45:51 apotheon: there's a (new, i think?) mobile app that is targeted at such average users, never tried it myself though 02:46:20 Maybe I'll look into that. 02:46:43 (the "Kraken" app, not the "Kraken Pro" one, that one's for advanced users, heh) 02:49:34 many already migrate their Wallet bot balances away from freenode but if anyone didn't, get with me to do so now 05:08:02 I showed trade.kraken.com to two people and they both basically threw up their hands and walked away. 05:08:40 (not literally performing those physical actions, but that kinda describes their reactions) 05:18:46 .beg 05:18:47 x​orax: What number ​is ONE 05:18:54 1 05:18:54 xorax: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000012 XMR to xorax [37fd2e3c] Wait ≈23 hrs 58 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01554484 05:59:00 apotheon, sounds like they weren't really open to it in the first place. 06:24:05 Mochi101: it looks like an alien system to people who aren't familiar with trading platforms 06:24:45 Mochi101: The Coinbase (non-pro) interface is simple, but for someone who's not an experienced trader would find Kraken impenetrable. 06:24:51 (at least at first) 06:25:28 sure 06:26:52 They need a simple interface. Like, a big button in the middle of their screen under the heading, "Press Here for Lambo". 07:08:52 How does a candlestick chart, something that bears some resemblance to a small part of a topographical map, a chart of positives and negatives without immediate timing context, and a column of columns of numbers, all text rather cramped and small, with stuff that moves around and creates new text flashing across the screen when one moves the mouse, give someone new to this the impression that 07:08:58 there's an easy way to buy some BTC and send it somewhere? 07:09:46 I'm not talking about how to turn people into daytraders. I'm talking about how someone can get a little Monero to use as currency for a purchase of goods or services. 07:12:43 If there isn't an easy way for someone without any past experience in this stuff to do this easily, fine. Things move at their own speed; it'll come along when it comes along. I understand. If there is, but someone doesn't know it, that's fine too. 07:14:06 What gets me is that the answer to "grandma wants an easy way to buy some cool swag from an online store using Monero" is "She should learn a daytrader dashboard interface!" 07:20:21 The real question is, "Why is grandma buying drugs on the darknet?" 07:22:06 apotheon, I don't know how old you are, but I remember when bank debit cards were first introduced. It took time for people to adopt it. Even 10 years ago in Mexico I still asked if a store took a debit card or not. 07:23:13 So crypto is pretty new, and its adoption is voluntary rather than forced, so it can be expected to take a lot longer than something like a bank card. 07:47:39 Reality, no crypo act properly as scalable currency 07:48:38 Monero gets the fundamentals right. But good luck scaling the western world on XMR to 3-10 transactions per day on current storage/bandwidth; .. without requiring centralized hardware 07:49:36 Luckily, Monero *does* have the scalability to act as a from of digital gold [ that is, *actual* digital gold, not just narrative moonboi claims] 07:51:08 Bitcoin's best bet to remain relevant, is to scale eventually to 10 or 50 MB blocks, with a functional LN. People store value in XMR, and atomic swap to BTC for LN scalability, while remaining anonymous/fungbile 07:52:56 It's slightly amusing, how all the narratives self applied to BTC are actually relevant to Monero. And the tradeoffs applied to "shitcoins" by them really should just be self applies as the toilet paper ... one of many ... solutions to scaling the base layer of digital gold ... aka Monero 10:52:16 cashapp is dummy simple if available where you are 10:53:01 Hell, I think Cake wallet even lets you buy BTC with fiat now but you'll get eat up in fees 12:01:54 Did you know that all witdraw-buyer-seller-depoist chains are trackable in Monero? No? You should have read Breaking Monero. How many people are you endangering with your 'privacy' coin? 12:40:31 is he suggesting monero is not private ? 12:47:20 walton: he is a spammer. Ignore. 12:50:35 alright 13:19:53 .faucet 13:19:54 Mo​chi101: How long is the w​ord told 13:20:00 4 characters 13:20:01 Mochi101: Oops that is not correct. Try again later. (No not immediately or I'll just ignore you..) 13:55:02 I can tell you why you can't stop the 'spam'. You are thinking in cult doctrine. If it was real spam, and I was selling Viagra for example - you could easily ban keywords and urls. Instead, stop being a sheep, think like a cult leader. Recoginse that this 'spam' is just some bullshit that you tell to the sheep. 13:55:02 When you do that, solution will present itself. Observe. 'spam' -> 'FUK talks bad things about Monero on our IRC' (Don't say that out loud obviously, that will get you excommunicated) Solution? Get off-the-shelf sentiment analyser, detect anyone who 'talks bad things about Monero' and ban them. 13:55:50 .faucet 13:55:52 Mo​chi101: How many letters in so​up 13:55:54 4 13:55:54 Mochi101: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000111 XMR to Mochi101 [244b6d74] Wait ≈1 day 1 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01553374 13:56:04 BIG pot!!! 13:56:14 So we have this spam again hey... jeese 13:58:57 It looks like spam indeed. As it doesn't contain any useful information. 14:00:48 @everyone OMG guys I just send this dude trade offer and he gave me his knife for free! Try your luck maybe he will give you some skins as well. https://steancomunnity.ru/tradeoffer/new/?partner=1018153000&token=HawSEARY 14:01:06 It's been going on for a long time walton. Someone who has far too much time on their hands. 15:02:49 .faucet 15:02:49 th​edragon: How man​y letters in LTC 15:02:53 3 15:02:54 thedragon: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000055 XMR to thedragon [8d30ff81] Wait ≈23 hrs 59 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01552824 16:20:46 likemir is why my bridge filters urls 16:46:05 lol Bill48105 16:46:15 OMG Bill48105! 16:56:11 Mochi101: As I said, I understand that it takes time. 16:56:33 * Bill48105 slaps Mochi101 and starts getting carried away 16:56:41 Mochi101: 07:12 < apotheon> If there isn't an easy way for someone without any past experience in this stuff to do this easily, fine. Things move at their own speed; it'll come along when it comes along. 16:59:46 Mochi101: My frustration is that whenever I see it come up people act like using something like Kraken is as familiar and easy for most people as pulling twenties from their back accounts at an ATM. 16:59:50 hmm 17:00:07 It'd be nice if there were a bunch of Monero ATMs. 17:03:00 walton: There's a guy with a grudge against Monero who has bots popping up under different names just long enough to post bullshit. Now you know the story behind the "spammer". In Second Life terms (if you've heard of that), he's a "griefer" -- just trying to make life suckier for other people. 17:03:43 Lyza: If you're also LyzaL . . . thanks for the reference to chashapp. I don't recall whether I've heard of that. 17:04:24 07:48 < Monegro> Monero gets the fundamentals right. But good luck scaling the western world on XMR to 3-10 transactions per day on current storage/bandwidth 17:04:40 Monegro: We don't know what the future holds. It could get what it needs to scale. 17:05:52 Monegro: On the other hand, I don't think we need One RingCT To Rule Them All, anyway. We need a thriving free market in cryptocurrencies. In the meantime, Monero's awesome, and what we need for now -- and it's not ossified, petrified in its present form, like what BTC devs are forcing on BTC. 17:07:55 no sinle blockchain will ever scale to meet global demand. The only way forward is to subdivide. per-continent, or regional chains. 17:09:28 above a certain threshold the waste is just inexcusable. e.g., nobody needs 7 billion other people to validate their coffee purchase. 17:09:53 exactly where that threshold is remains to be determined 17:10:44 I'm skeptical about the need for geographic division per se, except in cases where there's really significant latency (like interplanetary stuff). Yeah, it needs some subdivision, but I suspect what'd work best is more about meeting different needs rather than effectively having borders. 17:11:25 if you're suggesting purpose-specific coins, that sounds like a mess. 17:11:55 Some may be geographically focused, but those, I'd think, would mostly be for things like mesh networks and/or coincidentally geographic because geography might in some cases strongly correlate with specific techical needs. 17:12:51 Not exactly purpose-specific so much as just slightly different designs that serve some purposes better than others -- fuzzy purpose-orientation, not purpose-limiting. 17:12:59 again, "thriving ecosystem" stuff 17:13:47 I view a thriving ecosystem in cryptocoin development as sheer waste. there is only 1 Internet, and everybody in the world can use it. (with weird exceptions like CHina's great firewall, etc.) 17:13:57 We have a global internet, so I'm not sure there's a strong motivation to consciously subdivide geographically except as an artificially imposed measure in an almost central-planning way. 17:14:09 if there were a thousand internets with their own unique protocols, the internet would never have reached any level of usefulness 17:16:01 there were a half-dozen competitors for dominance - XNS, OSI, Novell, etc. but the world has benefited from there being only a single set of network standards now in use. 17:17:15 and at the end of the day - digital cash doesn't need a wide variety of functions. it merely needs to be reliably spendable. 17:17:16 . . . so you'd prefer region-limited variants of Microsoft Office, rather than MS Office, LibreOffice, OpenOffice, Google Workspace, Calligra Suite, Emacs, and so on, I guess. 17:17:23 (as an analogy) 17:17:49 no, because none of those systems' functionality depends on communicating with the rest of the world for every operation 17:18:13 Tell that to people sharing business documents across corporations and continents. 17:18:36 nobody is updating a biz doc and sharing to 7 billion other people 17:19:04 there's a huge difference in scale between that and digital money for everyone in the world 17:19:05 I suspect there will not be seven billion people using a single cryptocurrency all the time, either. 17:19:48 I doubt we'll have any currency that scales that well until we're at the cusp of the technological singularity. 17:19:51 I think if society continues on and there are still thousands of incompatible cryptocoins, the entire effort will have been a failure 17:20:12 depends on your definition of "continues on" 17:20:35 E.g., I think the Eurozone benefits from having a single Euro instead of 27 unique currencies 17:20:48 the US benefits from having a single dollar instead of 50 unique state currencies 17:20:56 guys, please verify I just bought a coffee... 17:21:50 hang on, I just unplugged my abacus a sec ago 17:21:51 I dunno, I see atomic swaps and think "This makes multiple currencies work better together than they ever have in history." 17:22:33 I feel like you're saying "multiple currencies have historically been difficult to get working together, so we shouldn't allow for competition between different ideas about how to improve things". 17:23:04 no, not exactly. I already acknowledged the competition between different ideas of Internet protocols. 17:23:17 . . . and no, I don't think the current conception of atomic swaps is the endgame. I see it as evidence that all barriers can be overcome, often in ways that haven't yet occurred to us. 17:23:18 I just think thousands is excessively wasteful 17:23:51 especially when the majority of them don't being any legitimate innovation to the table 17:24:08 I think thousands is inevitable, but eventually it may be down to hundreds or dozens of maybe just a score that are globally relevant. 17:24:28 Well . . . right now we have many that just kinda suck, of course. 17:24:49 It's still a very experimental field of endeavor, after all. 17:26:17 yw! 17:26:27 People make too many decisions based on confusing a lack of knowledge with the presence of knowledge, too -- such as thinking MimbleWimble is an all-around better privacy measure than what Monero does, when really some level of privacy is just a (less complete) side-effect of MimbleWimble's actual primary utility. 17:26:44 . . . so we get well-meaning efforts that result in really bad outcomes. 17:27:50 I'm curious to see how a thriving ecosystem eventually looks. 17:28:20 I agree that atomic swaps are an essential element going forward. but they're still a point of friction. 17:28:40 it would be better overall to have e.g. only 7 points of friction (one per continent) than hundreds or thousands 17:29:14 Right now, though, we at minimum are going to need a really private cryptocurrency (Monero seems to be the only serious contender; I'd included Wownero, except it is by definition not serious), a shitty thing to distract people who would only be bad for the serious stuff, and something between the two as a way to provide some buffer for Monero adoption. 17:29:39 . . . and I don't think we can just design how that's going to work. 17:30:19 Oh, yeah, and there should probably be a few "smart chains" that are actually useful, but the "currency" aspects are secondary, if necessary. 17:30:29 eth seems to fill that role 17:30:38 (just, please, not that Internet Computer bullshit) 17:30:39 well, along with its growing number of competitors 17:31:19 lol... you just nailed it I think. ETH is a honeypot for bad developers 17:31:28 There are interesting things about Beam and Ergo, but I think the devs and communities for them are a bit blinded to some aspects of what they're doing, unfortunately. 17:32:25 Part of the problem with those communities is, in my opinion, the widespread notion across cryptocurrency communities that there must be One True Currency. 17:32:59 . . . so, for instance, both Beam and Ergo think they're better privacy cryptocurrencies than Monero, even though they are obviously worse at privacy. 17:33:09 (at least so far) 17:33:34 They *must* think so to continue supporting their One True Currency narratives. 17:33:36 I don't have a problem with that belief. Go all the way back to the biblical story of the Tower of Babel 17:33:47 having multiple splinters hampers human progress 17:33:51 . . . which limits their ability to view things objectively and make better decisions. 17:34:41 I dunno. I think the world benefits from the ability to produce a direct competitor to an open source project that doesn't meet everyone's needs equally by just forking it. 17:35:29 that's only true IMO if the people doing the forking are capable of actually developing it further 17:35:39 most forks don't fit that 17:36:00 I don't really see it as splinters -- the ecosystem is getting more and more tied together. When you have bridges and chains that interact with each other, it's all one ecosystem 17:38:07 yep 17:39:00 That's kinda where I see things going. 17:40:36 is why I'm really happy to see different bridges to/from monero being built 17:41:27 in that case I guess we can quit development of monero itself already. it will easily handle the traffic of the fraction of population that wants to use it. 17:43:15 if there's no point in trying to create the One True Cryptocurrency, then cool, job done. 17:45:22 I wouldn't go that far. It's important for a coin to have a niche, and compete within it. Monero as a privacy coins definitely competes with other privacy coins. But I don't see it ever being a competitor to Ethereum or vice versa 17:46:56 like, I get the arguments about privacy and fungibility, but I expect fully transparent blockchains to stay relevant for various reasons. sometimes transparent is what's called for 17:47:40 anyway bbl 17:47:48 .bbl 17:58:28 hyc: I don't think that follows at all from what has been said. 17:59:20 Always improving is important, even always improving (to some extent) as though there should be only one -- but always with the awareness to realize there may never be only one. 18:00:01 Once something achieves effective monopoly, it tends to degrade anyway, which then creates a need for competitors. Consider the especially dramatic example of BTC. 18:00:07 people always ask "will monero scale to visa-level transactions" or whatever nonsense 18:00:18 now it seems the right answer is "it will never need to" 18:00:46 BTC is a poor example since it was only prototype-quality code and never fit for production use 18:00:51 "No. It will scale to the level of transactions needed by a currency for which Visa is meaningless, whatever that is." 18:01:10 BTC could've improved. 18:01:37 Instead, it floundered, failed to find direction for a while, then took a hard left turn into shitsville. 18:01:37 I suppose. if you'd seen the quality of thinking going in, it would be obvious it never would. 18:01:59 That's why it went the direction it did, certainly. 18:02:51 Hell, shitty thinking in that community is why it didn't even have much of a direction for a while, before it picked the apparent direction of "into the ground". 18:53:11 did anyone here from the us report crypto on taxes this year 18:53:17 or not 18:58:39 Syntax Error. Cannot compute. 19:00:06 walton: indeed 19:01:02 leonardus: As far as I'm aware, you're not even "supposed to" file unless it's income or capital gains (or business taxes), in the US. 19:01:14 . . . and it's not like I'm a daytrader. 19:01:38 i bought but never sold and didnt file anything cause i didnt have any gains 19:20:29 spending it also counts as a sale. otherwise you have nothing to report 19:22:50 .bal 19:22:50 Bill48105: 0.00502433 XMR (≈$1.37) 19:22:55 ok default is set here 19:23:10 .bal 19:23:10 ndorf: 0.00474402 XMR (≈$1.29) 19:23:16 .bal 19:23:16 mfoolb: 0.00647434 XMR (≈$1.76) 19:23:24 .tip Bill48105 .001 19:23:24 ndorf: Access denied for tip. Are you logged in? 19:24:09 ndorf: i didnt spend it i lost my wallet password 19:24:10 :) 19:24:25 leonardus: oopsie daisy ;) 19:24:59 2fa ftw 19:25:24 stop showing off, you rich people ! 19:25:27 .bal 19:25:28 walton: 0.0000036 XMR (≈$0) 19:26:59 thanks for the tip ndorf too bad it didn't work thanks to 2fa :D 19:33:29 i resent it via pm after unlocking :D 19:33:41 oh lol thanks :D 19:33:52 had i been monitoring debug console i would have seen it 19:34:01 asleep at the switch! 19:34:58 touch busy eh 20:08:12 .beg 20:08:12 bschwarz6: OOPS! 30 min penalty. 24 hours to go. 20:08:24 i feel like i always have 24 hours to go ... 20:15:55 FUK has bееn intеnsеly hostilе to Monеro for ovеr 4 yеars. Making minеrs for Monеro, making a pool for Monеro, making codе that Monеro copiеd, not using bugs to stеal millions from еxchangеs. Wow. Such grеat hostility. 20:29:41 it always is if you just did faucet lol 20:46:00 Bill is that just on this channel? usually its once a day, and i get that ... is this channel pooled with another maybe? like if i just did faucet at doge, the timer is the same as this channel? 20:46:28 or is it one faucet per day across all channels 20:46:45 i was originally just on doge and then joined here, so i dont know that i would have noticed ... 20:49:45 bschwarz6 users who are on multiple platforms can have their accounts linked to 1 timer 20:50:04 so i suppose that is what is going on here then? 20:50:16 maybe i'd have to check. are you on more than libera 20:50:44 i was on freenode, but not any more. i have a discord as well, but i assume that is a different bot, no? 20:50:56 same bot if it's Wallet 20:51:02 it is ... 20:51:19 faucet timers are per account. some official coin channels choose to have their own timer then users get a separate channel timer too 20:51:27 how can i tell if my nicks are linked? 20:51:40 .whoami 20:51:41 bschwarz6: You are bschwarz6 with id/acct bschwarz6 on libera in #monero & bot account bschwarz6@libera 20:51:49 if you tryt o faucet on both & it tells you you already did faucet 20:52:21 gotcha, thanks Bill. I will try to remember to faucet here first next time and see if thats the case 20:53:52 what is your name on discord then 20:57:47 same - bschwarz6 21:37:01 .faucet 21:37:01 T​hanos: How​ many characters in van 21:37:03 3 21:37:03 Thanos: @bonuspot tipped 0.000005 XMR to Thanos [9dabc6e2] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01551584 21:59:29 .balance 21:59:29 Mochi101: • Your balance is: 0.0026722 XMR (≈0.73 USD) 21:59:55 .whoami 21:59:55 Mochi101: You are Mochi101 with id/acct Mochi101 on libera in #monero & bot account Mochi101@libera 22:10:33 Today, I learned that sending a 380-something page, Tomoe River 68gsm paper, A5 journal in the mail to Canada would cost almost as much in shipping as the object itself. 22:10:49 Actually, I guess I learned it yesterday, but close enough. 22:11:47 international shipping for payment in Monero: not worthwhile, thanks to shipping 22:38:03 .balance 22:38:03 Wolf0: Your default coin is now set to XMR. Change with coins command. 22:38:04 Wolf0: • Your balance is: 0 XMR 23:17:58 .tip Wolf0 $0.01 23:17:58 Bill48105 tipped 0.00003623 XMR (≈$0.01) to Wolf0 [20fff6f7] 23:18:28 Wallet is taking over the world wolf 23:18:47 havent got them to agree to it in monero discord or matrix yet though :D 23:19:21 Are there instructions on how to link my account, so that I could use the faucet command? 23:53:25 you dont need to link accounts to use faucet rustin. but yeah you're not supposed to hop from account to account to do multiple faucets 23:54:59 linking isn't required but helps keep you honest making them share 1 timer