00:00:19 you would need other i2p monero nodes so currently that won't work 00:00:21 Okay, so Monero transactions recieved through i2p are broadcasted over clearnet 00:00:38 yea just go fully i2p then no prob ;) 00:00:54 yea make a whole fork of monero that's only for i2p 00:01:02 call it, uh, what's the lojban word for money? 00:01:42 yea since monero forks so often its not a prob 00:02:05 it is a problem because you have to update the entire code to support i2p 00:02:22 yea thats the only issue 00:02:46 hi apotheon 00:03:02 we were just talking about how monero still uses the clearnet if you configure it to use i2p 00:03:19 it only uses i2p to broadcast transactions, although i'm trying to figure out what exactly that means 00:03:50 it just means you download and upload blocks via clearnet -- this was chosen becausew there's really no information given by this, except that you run a monero node 00:04:21 so this is how I visualize it: there are incoming transactions from outside that are then broadcasted, then there are transactions made using a Monero wallet client owned by you, sent to monerod via localhost 00:04:25 Oh 00:04:39 oh yes, then there are blocks 00:04:57 but yeah you get it; you 00:04:58 so the blocks are downloaded via clearnet, never i2p 00:05:17 you'll also get transactions via peers via clearnet, and rebroadcast transactions via clearnet. But YOUR local transactions will be rel;ayed via i2p 00:05:24 yes ^^ 00:05:41 Elon_Satoshi: you can compile with --proxy option and then use tor 00:06:10 Yes. Or I can use torsocks 00:06:34 So only YOUR transactions are relayed via i2p 00:06:49 But optionally you can accept incoming transactions via i2p 00:06:55 But these are broadcast over clearnet 00:07:35 Furthermore, the incoming i2p transactions come directly from someone making a local transaction and broadcasting it over i2p 00:07:54 And monerod will never broadcast somebody else's transactions over i2p 00:08:06 nor will it download the blocks over i2p 00:08:23 that all sounds right to me --- maybe somebody can confirm whether there is more than one hop for i2p transactions before relaying to clearnet, but I think there isn't 00:08:58 Ah ok 00:13:58 So what if someone is monitoring your traffic, and they know the only thing you use Tor or i2p for is for monerod 00:14:53 Couldn't they assume that you're making a transaction every time there is outgoing i2p/Tor traffic? (assuming torsocks isn't being used and monerod is only broadcasting your transactions over Tor) 00:15:03 sure 00:15:24 Ah 00:15:50 by default i2p connections send random noise to mask this 00:16:17 Is that an i2p feature or a monerod feature? 00:16:39 monerod feature -- it can be disabled with a command line switch, which (apparently) results in more stable i2p connections :/ 00:16:47 Ah 00:17:02 And it doesn't also send random noise through Tor 00:17:03 hopefully will be fixed -- but I still use the random noise feature. if you add a few "priority nodes" it's all groovy 00:17:25 I think it does, I just don't use tor. probably doesn't if using torsocks though 00:18:20 but if using torsocks all data will be tor so TXs are kind of hidden anyway ig 00:21:06 I wonder if the random noise could be replaced by occasionally relaying other people's transactions through tor/i2p 00:22:03 So both incoming clearnet and darknet transactions are relayed to other clearnet and darknet nodes 00:23:31 How do incoming transactions work if you don't have a DNS domain or a .onion/.i2p address? 00:23:56 I guess they're downloaded. 00:26:59 Elon_Satoshi : read https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/docs/ANONYMITY_NETWORKS.md 00:27:56 oh wait, its not in there, hmm 00:29:14 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/cryptonote_config.h#L115 00:29:27 every 10-15 seconds a dummy packet is sent over I2P or Tor by default 00:30:06 the size is always the same (3 KiB), and when transaction is sent is padded/divided into 3KiB chunks 00:30:41 all data is not sent over I2P or Tor because you cannot ban remote nodes easily over those networks 00:31:22 there is a PR (which I need to review) about sending all data over tor exit nodes, but thats different than using the hidden services 00:32:44 theres also randomized delay on the receiver side to obfuscate the routing 00:33:02 but it currently only does one hope over tor/i2p as Lyza mentioned 00:33:34 Ah 00:34:02 > // Bender's daydream 00:34:04 What's that? 00:34:16 its leftover from the original cryptonote developers 00:35:05 I thought it was bender's nightmare actually, the daydream may have been a joke by moo or something 00:35:23 bender's nightmare is a reference to the TV show Futurama 00:35:40 _maybe_ the cryptozoidberg guy wrote it, which is a reference to the same sho 00:38:02 oh mikezackles added that apparently 00:38:52 incoming transactions involves generating an i2p address. see https://www.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/node-i2p-zero.html 00:44:12 Are there ways for tor exit nodes to attack or monitor Monero traffic? 00:44:31 That are less of a concern through i2p? 00:53:14 its the same concern - theres just an ephermal pubkey to ban and nothing else 01:29:53 Hmm. Suppose Monero nodes required some proof of work in order to be trusted? 01:30:13 That would make ban evasion more expensive 06:03:03 .faucet 06:03:03 PapuaHardyNet: How many characters in gone 06:03:06 4 06:03:06 PapuaHardyNet: @bonuspot tipped 0.000004 XMR to PapuaHardyNet [c395d18c] Wait ≈23 hrs 54 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01355137 06:10:23 .faucet 06:10:23 apotheon: How many letters in queer 06:10:26 5 06:10:26 apotheon: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000166 XMR to apotheon [e07f71c8] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01353477 06:11:45 Elon_Satoshi: Did anyone mention whether blocks get updated over clearnet with Tor, too? 06:12:26 01:29 < Elon_Satoshi> Hmm. Suppose Monero nodes required some proof of work in order to be trusted? 06:12:49 That seems like kind of a bad idea. It would penalize a lot of cases that shouldn't be penalized. 06:13:21 . . . though I guess I haven't read enough backscroll to realize what kind of "trust" you mean to validate. 06:14:35 I should just read the backscroll in the morning. 09:07:42 .duckcall 09:07:42 Inge: ・゜゜・。。・゜゜(')> 🦆 'QUACK QUACK!!' 09:07:45 .befr 09:07:45 Inge: SHE GOBBLED THE TREAT! Time: ≈3.14 sec Ratio: 1 of 1 Treats: 1 of 2 11:05:48 .faucet 11:05:49 orangeboxcutter: Your default coin is now set to XMR. Change with coins command. 11:05:49 orangeboxcutter: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000037 XMR to orangeboxcutter [4e41156f] Wait ≈23 hrs 56 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01353107 11:11:10 .beg 11:11:12 louipc: How many chars in seven 11:11:18 5 11:11:18 louipc: @bonuspot tipped 0.000001 XMR to louipc [58aa46fe] Wait ≈23 hrs 56 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01353007 11:11:36 ouch 13:36:58 where can I learn how bitcoin bip44 wallets which use ECDSA can also be used to generate keys for Monero's ed25519 curve? 13:37:17 is it not a big deal? just 32 byte int just like ecdsa so who cares how you derive it? 14:06:23 think i got it: https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0010.md 20:20:24 Ouch? 20:20:32 louipc: Why ouch? 20:59:00 .faucet 20:59:00 Norkle: What number is FOUR 20:59:03 4 20:59:03 Norkle: @bonuspot tipped 0.00001 XMR to Norkle [0aaa5b5e] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01352007 21:24:34 .faucet 21:24:37 Pny: How many toes do humans normally have on 1 hand 21:24:41 5 21:24:41 Pny: Oops that is not correct. Try again later. (No not immediately or I'll just ignore you..) 21:24:51 0 21:24:52 lol 21:50:04 .tip Pny 0.000001 21:50:04 orangeboxcutter: Oops: 0.000001 - invalid amount (must be 0.00001 or more) 23:51:13 apotheon: cuz it was low hah but yea should be grateful still :D