04:52:12 <apotheon> .xmr
04:52:12 <Wallet> apotheon: ≈$275.4242 • ≈ value of: 1 XMR • Source: cmc/ccc/altm
07:30:37 <Inge> .cmr
12:33:49 <kish`> If you have tainted bitcoin, is it possible to convert that to fresh bitcoin with the monero atomic swap?
12:35:15 <sech1> Why even convert it back to Bitcoin? Stay in Monero, there is no such thing as tainted Monero
12:36:51 <kish`> how hard is it for my client to convert bank money or cash into monero?
12:39:17 <sech1> Wire transfer to Kraken and buy Monero there
12:39:38 <sech1> Kraken has XMR/USD/EUR pairs
12:41:13 <apotheon> kish`: I don't know how likely you are to get "fresh bitcoin" from atomic swaps, but it seems like there's some possibility you'll get that.  It's probably a crapshoot.
12:41:49 <apotheon> kish`: I have no idea what you mean about your client converting fiat to Monero.
12:42:03 <apotheon> kish`: Can you clarify what you're asking?
12:42:38 <kish`> apotheon, people may want to purchase Monero with fiat and send it to me
12:42:48 <kish`> I am  not sure how easy that is
12:45:55 <kayabaNerve> Unless atomic swap providers impl chain analysis, you can atomic swap Bitcoin you don't like for something fungible. If everyone has that practice, no one will submit fresh Bitcoin, which is universally liked. That said, swapping back helps break its fungibility by removing info on some of its links, providing plausible deniability, and may give you Bitcoin you like more
12:46:58 <kayabaNerve> For example. I have some Bitcoin who I named Josh and I love it. I would atomic swap all my other BTC for him. It's the new pet rock: web scale edition.
12:47:30 <Inge> atomic swap btc -> xmr, then you can use the xmr to buy squeaky clean btc ;)
12:47:35 <kish`> Suppose the bitcoin I receive are blacklisted shortly after
12:47:35 <kish`> or tracked by authorities
12:47:40 <kish`> I need to get past that
12:47:48 <kish`> I think I will go with Monero.
12:48:02 <kayabaNerve> Inge: You'd either need to swap for used BTC and then buy it at a premium, get lucky, or work out a deal with the party so they directly take BTC
12:48:07 <kish`> Binance, and Kraken support Monero. Excellent.
12:48:08 <kayabaNerve> kish`: Then don't use BTC
12:48:20 <kayabaNerve> If you have those fears, you can't use a coin which doesn't resolve them
12:48:46 <kish`> kayabaNerve, I didn't know I could just get them to directly deal with me in Monero.
12:48:57 <kayabaNerve> I don't know if you could.
12:49:05 <kish`> This new knowledge improves things considerably.
12:49:10 <kayabaNerve> There's a business selling BTC fresh from the farms.
12:49:17 <kish`> Can't I?
12:49:26 <kish`> Yeah I want to avoid BTC preferably 
12:49:37 <kayabaNerve> I've seen one specifically over the years, no idea if it's legit, and even if they aren't, there's still a business in the concept.
12:49:52 <Inge> kayabaNerve: premium?
12:49:55 <kish`> I had a lot of BTC years ago sadly
12:49:59 <kayabaNerve> So the question is what will they sell for. They have something you want. You presumably have something. Do they want it as much as you do?
12:50:18 <kayabaNerve> So yeah, if you can convince the relevant party to take XMR, you can buy fresh BTC.
12:50:37 <kayabaNerve> But you have to get a BTC mining org to turn their BTC, their currency of choice, into another coin.
12:50:55 <kayabaNerve> So it may be a hard sell, because even if they like the idea, they may not appreciate the media angle.
12:50:56 <kish`> Hmm
12:51:04 <kish`> media angle?
12:51:09 <kayabaNerve> But yeah, if you, as a human, strike a deal, with another human, you can conduct commerce.
12:51:24 <kish`> Is there something I should know about?
12:51:38 <kayabaNerve> The questions are which human and what deal. Theoretically there's a human with access to fresh BTC willing to accept some XMR at some price. No idea who, no idea how much.
12:51:49 <kayabaNerve> But if you're interested, it's feasible to send the right emails.
12:52:02 <kayabaNerve> "Top Bitcoin miner with thousands of community members moves to XMR"
12:52:07 <kayabaNerve> BTC maxis would have a field day.
12:52:16 <kish`> Hmm I guess me converting btc to xmr on binance for example is going to raise tax questions
12:52:40 <kayabaNerve> Inge: The one site I've seen selling fresh BTC, again, not vouching for it, charges +15% IIRC
12:52:56 <kayabaNerve> Because its whole purpose is the fact it's clean BTC with 0 risk of being flagged anywhere
12:53:02 <Inge> right
12:53:19 <Inge> still, you can get pretty clean btc from Kraken / Coinbase / Gemini etc ...
12:53:21 <kayabaNerve> Whereas random BTC could be connected to a drug deal which gets you stuck in the middle (there has been at least one claim of that happening)
12:53:35 <kayabaNerve> Oh. Any major exchange which sends you it should be seen as a clean break in a perfect world.
12:53:43 <kayabaNerve> They vouched for it as clean the moment they sold it.
12:53:51 <kayabaNerve> The issue is smaller parties and lack of communication.
12:54:18 <kish`> kayabaNerve, I can sell the XMR I make for local cash
12:54:32 <kayabaNerve> Where Coinbase may say "We don't extend our trust to the judgement of your payment processor for your coffee shop" and the coffee shop handler may not even publicly say it went through them
12:54:44 <kayabaNerve> It's a really fascinating question with one answer
12:54:45 <kayabaNerve> Use XMR
12:54:56 <kayabaNerve> It avoids this whole debate (mostly)
12:55:13 <Inge> kayabaNerve: it gets worse, when your exchange starts bullying you for what you did with your withdrawn btc, several hops away from the exchange ...
12:55:14 <kayabaNerve> Or, to hedge your bets, a competent ZK SNARKS solution.
12:55:19 <kish`> client converts fiat to xmr i get xmr and i convert xmr to cash
12:55:26 <kayabaNerve> Inge: That happened with TradeOgre a couple months ago
12:55:33 <Inge> kish`: sounds nice
12:55:37 <kayabaNerve> A payment processor flagged TXs involving them as illegitimate
12:56:02 <kayabaNerve> Not endorsing any parties in this convo, named or unnamed btw.
12:56:11 <kayabaNerve> Except Monero. Monero is great
12:56:42 <Inge> not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But the best we have.
12:56:47 <kish`> Any risk Monero will be banned from exchanges?
12:57:44 <Inge> kish`: that has actually happened - in South korea, Japan and australia. Although AFAIK not due to govt regulation, more due to banks pressurising exchanges, and in South Korea due to some social pressure after a pedophile ring was using it for payments
12:58:48 <kayabaNerve> Inge: Mind if I PM you? I don't want to bog down this channel with alt discussion
12:58:57 <kayabaNerve> I promise to not sell you a ponzi ;)
12:58:58 <Inge> feel free
12:59:02 <Inge> ahaha
12:59:13 <Inge> as long as you get me in early and out in time :P
17:22:36 <drew> is it a bad idea to copy the lmdb dir instead of exporting the blockchain to a file and importing? 
17:23:01 <moneromooo> Only if a process is writing to it at the same time.
17:23:21 <drew> ok, so so long as monerod is stopped then it should be okay?
17:23:52 <moneromooo> Yes.
17:24:30 <drew> ok cool, thank you
17:25:37 <moneromooo> And if monerod is running, mdb_copy is much faster than export/import.
17:25:46 <moneromooo> Or.. I expect it to be.
18:12:28 <kish`> how large is the monero chain
18:27:10 <selsta> 40gb pruned, 110gb unpruned
18:27:12 <selsta> approx
18:38:43 <merope> Almost 120GB unpruned by now
18:51:34 <raecarruth> o_0
18:57:18 <nioc> long way to go to fill up my 1TB SSD