00:42:22 zcash requires blind faith, which makes it a cult. https://twitter.com/hyc_symas/status/1066948524405940224 00:43:00 .faucet 00:43:01 Cricket: This command is disabled in this channel. 00:43:37 calling it a technology is grossly presumptuous 04:59:08 lol 04:59:44 it requires the good heart and desire to buy Zooko groceries in perpetuity 05:49:28 I believe Justin should have his access to the @monero twitter account revoked. He clearly can't delineate between being a trusted community member and shilling for his employer. 05:49:34 https://twitter.com/_geonic/status/1457934826401501185?s=20 06:30:41 if I run monerod in my terminal and then open monero-wallet-gui, if I set it to use Local Node to enable mining, will it know to connect to the existing monerod or should I connect to the running monerod with remote node? I won't be able to enable mining that way tho 06:36:14 drew: it should connect to the running monerod 13:03:54 apotheon: I can't find it. I can find a report they funded that basically said it's too awful to actually use for money laundering. But that's not them talking 15:30:42 artefact_: can you repeat test with monerod from the latest release-v0.17 branch monerod with disable ssl (--rpc-ssl=disabled) ? 17:15:24 yanmaani: That report could be fun. Would you mind linking that? 17:33:55 apotheon: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR4418.html 17:34:09 basically, zcash paid them to make the report 17:34:21 and so they have to be very polite to their sponsor 17:34:31 nice 17:35:15 but basically, their conclusion is "nobody uses zcash for criminal activity, the reasons for this are entirely unknown, they may be related to the fact that nobody uses zcash for anything" 17:35:37 "Zcash is relatively unknown in the academic research community, and the links between Zcash and illicit or criminal activities have not been substantially researched." 17:35:47 "Users engaged in illicit activities may not fully understand the Zcash operating model. They may also not understand the value in Zcash's privacy-preserving features, or else are not aware of or confident in them." 17:36:23 interesting 17:36:29 you have to admit, "relatively unknown in the academic research community" is a very nice euphemism for "irrelevant shitcoin" 17:36:40 har 17:36:59 LOL 17:37:10 Then again, it may be that even Ethereum is relatively unknown in the academic research community, I guess. 17:37:23 It seems everyone has heard of "Bitcoin", and . . . that's about it. 17:37:24 it's a pretty damning evaluation of their zksnarks research 17:37:44 the report mentions monero several times FWIW 17:38:04 at least bulletproofs etc *are* known in crypto and math academic circles 17:38:19 "unlike zcash, people do seem to use monero for criminal activities ... we do not have any idea why ... it may be related to zcash's marketing" 17:40:23 got the PDF 17:40:31 Now I just have to find time to read it. 17:41:43 not worth the time imo 17:42:12 Shouldn't we be calling any law-evading use of Monero "wellicit" instead of "illicit"? 17:42:21 ? 17:42:34 just a pun 17:42:42 well vs. ill 17:43:55 The paper's all about "illicit" use of cryptocurrency, after all. 17:44:25 holy fuck, this PDF 17:45:35 The text is tiny, which is a problem when reading it on a laptop. I could handle this better if it wasn't printed in a two-column format, but the two column format means I'd have to scroll back up to the top of every page after reading half of it if I zoomed in enough to make the text more easily legible. 17:46:18 This is why EPUBs are better for plain ol' text. Pagination is less harmful that way. 18:04:57 Over the last year or so, academic interest in Monero has skyrocketed. MRL literally cannot keep up with the flood of papers being published. 18:08:35 first transaction flood, now this :D 18:10:07 I still suspect that zksnarks is just a flashy gimmick, like quantum teleportation 18:10:21 How so? 18:10:22 Moser et al. (2018) "An Empirical Analysis of Traceability in the Monero Blockchain" alone now has over 80 citations and counting. 18:10:41 entangle two photons, then move them a distance apart, view one photon, and magically the other one changes to match. 18:10:59 Granted, most of them are references in passing, but a good number of the referencing papers are entirely focused on Monero. 18:11:12 information didn't teleport or travel at superluminal velocities. it was already present in both photons, and moved at the speed which you separated them 18:11:51 with zksnarks trusted setup, the knowledge is carried in both the prover and verifier at creation time 18:12:29 it appears that zero knowledge is exchanged at verification time, but only because the information was already present... 18:13:05 my sneaking suspicion is that it all cancels out and amounts to proving 0 = 0 ... 18:13:36 Somewhat analogous to a one-time pad? 18:13:40 yes 18:14:50 information is not present in photons hyc 18:15:02 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem 18:15:55 A one-time pad can be pretty useful. 18:21:34 sech1: this is more relevant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement 18:21:54 "However, all interpretations agree that entanglement produces correlation between the measurements and that the mutual information between the entangled particles can be exploited, but that any transmission of information at faster-than-light speeds is impossible" 18:34:00 is that quantum entanglement stuff even real? or is it just hot air, like "oh, technically, it teleports"? 18:36:47 Modern day snake oil 19:56:33 goddamn these virtual sms things are crap 20:12:13 I kinda believe it will still be useful for telecommunication, just in a very limited fashion 20:12:59 imagine you can create e.g. 100 pairs of entangled photons 20:13:13 then you put half of each pair in one box, and half in another box 20:13:34 then you can give those 2 boxes to twp people and they can travel arbitrarily far from each other 20:14:13 and they can communicate privately, instantly, sending up to 100 "messages" to each other 20:14:45 after the last photons are used up they would need to return to a single charging station to refill both boxes 20:16:49 It's remarkably similar to how securely employing one-time pads would work. 20:16:58 it's years away from being practically useful, but I think it will get there 20:17:02 yes 20:17:20 Combine OTP with that, and you've got a pretty secure messaging system. 20:17:29 . . . fuelled by periodic inconvenience. 20:17:47 (also, that charging station might be a MITM) 20:17:56 heh good point 20:18:07 gotta make your own 20:18:55 People treat WhatsApp like "secure" comms, though, so . . . why worry about the charging station for WhatsEngangled? 20:19:12 (secret message buried in that name) 20:22:21 to be easily useful you'd want them in bit arrays, like a DRAM. collapse one photon = on bit, uncollapsed = off bit 20:22:32 then you can actually encode binary messages 20:24:54 I don't know if anyone's ever considered entangling more than 2 photons at once 20:25:08 so currently you're only able to do point to point comm 20:25:21 but it also means it's impossible to eavesdrop 20:26:02 if there is a way to do multi-photon entanglement then you could conceivably do group comms. or eavesdrop undetected on a 2-party comm... 20:29:49 It's easy to bring a box with entangled photons with you on a trip, is it? 20:34:30 no idea really. i think they need to be supercooled tho 20:34:48 but it's early days 20:35:20 compare an early vacuum tube to a modern transistor 20:44:22 hyc https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-reaches-new-milestone-in-space-based-quantum-communications/ 22:21:37 you still have to generate a random key to be used by a OTP, and that is always the rub (the generation and distribution of the key) 22:22:59 vtnerd_: dice, if nothing else 22:23:26 Distribution is a much bigger problem, in practice, than generation. 22:23:36 (at least in use cases that come to mind) 22:25:10 generation is a big problem if lots of data needs to be encrypted. The key must be equal length to the plaintext, and the key cannot be repeated 22:25:25 so using dice will work, but oh man is that a pain for encrypting a pdf or something 22:27:44 yep 22:28:05 Obviously, utility of OTP is situational. 22:28:58 OTPs are generally not necessary except for communications (as opposed to local storage), so the constraints of bandwidth often make the constraints of generation less of a problem than those of delivery. 22:29:19 That's my observation so far, anyway.