04:02:45 <apotheon> We seem to have lost Mochi.
05:20:46 <dCLCp> I remember when bitcoin first started taking off and the silk road was taking it and people were saying it was untraceable and then a month later people were like "whoah whoah btc is super traceable". Is that going to happen with monero?
05:46:07 <Inge> dCLCp: No
05:49:39 <dCLCp> It seems like in every way monero is the better coin then? Except for like sunk cost fallacy idk why ppl still buy btc 
05:50:20 <Inge> dCLCp: unlike bitcoin, there is no way to see the senders address, the recipients address, or the amount sent. there are some heuristics that might make it possible in some scenarios to graph a flow of transactions, but it is probabalistic and rewuires collection of outside metadata to be useful
05:51:06 <dCLCp> Will quantum computing change that?
05:52:30 <Inge> yes, if ypu get good enough quantum computers, most current cryptography is SOL
05:53:42 <dCLCp> Hmm i wonder if there are any crypto that are quantum resistant AND similar to monero
05:54:01 <dCLCp> Because there are qusntum resistance technologies 
05:54:25 <Inge> dCLCp: btc has first mover advantage, larger network effwct, easier for laypeople to be confident that the supply is known, and also A LOT of peeps in the BTC camp are fine with the transparent nature, as it helps with regulation and acceptance. Also some prefer fixed supply (monero has a tail emission of about 158k coins per year - around 0.85% inflation for the first year of tsil emission, falling every 
05:54:31 <Inge> year)
05:55:57 <dCLCp> I suppose btc is still fine as an onramp into crypto. I don't hold it any grudge. I do see now why it is still so large.
05:56:02 <Inge> dCLCp: there has been done research into how quantum computing can affect Monero, as well as mitigation steps. didnt find the details right now, but see e.g. https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/research-post-quantum-monero.html
05:57:23 <Inge> "Monero is what bitcoin noobs thought they bought"
05:57:57 <dCLCp> ^
09:52:17 <Joun> hello
12:01:07 <noobcake2465[m]> i was sure kraken would take XMR to trade for something else
12:01:23 <noobcake2465[m]> seems like all the trade options require KYC
12:02:14 <noobcake2465[m]> TLDR being i have some monero, but the place i want to spend it doesn't take monero
12:33:55 <noobcake2465[m]> much as i dislike binance for some reasons, they seem to let me deposit crypto without asking me to verify
13:10:48 <dont_thread_on_m> would it even be a KYC if it didn't require ID verification?
14:18:22 <noobcake2465[m]> seems kraken needs KYC just to deposit any funds
14:18:31 <noobcake2465[m]> like binance doesn't but their BTC xfer fee is nuts
14:18:50 <noobcake2465[m]> usually i go from my KYC'ed exchange, to binance buy some monero
14:19:19 <noobcake2465[m]> but now i'm kinda looking for somewhere else to transfer to so i can use a currency that isn't monero (because the place i am trying to spend at doesn't take monero)
14:19:48 <noobcake2465[m]> maybe i'll try coinbase
14:22:30 <noobcake2465[m]> i wish everyone took monero, its got small fees and private
14:22:34 <noobcake2465[m]> and fairly stable lol
14:26:00 <LyzaL> for paying invoices try FixedFloat.com IMO -- 1% flat rate fee (you are guaranteed a specific amount of BTC) or 0.5% floating rate free
14:26:07 <LyzaL> also supports LN network and tor
14:28:52 <LyzaL> TradeOgre also has a pretty reasonable withdrawal fee of 0.00005 btc. places like kucoin and such tend to have crazy withdraw fees. like they're trying to encourage you not to withdraw :/
14:29:43 <noobcake2465[m]> well fuck coinbase
14:29:47 <noobcake2465[m]> wants a phone number for "security"
14:30:24 <noobcake2465[m]> because nobody has ever heard of TOTP or yubikeys obviously
14:30:26 <LyzaL> you also can't deposit your XMR to coinbase heh
14:31:04 <noobcake2465[m]> i wasn't going to, i was going to convert it to something else like USDT or something cheap
14:31:16 <noobcake2465[m]> transfer it off binance, then transfer it to my local BTC wallet
14:31:58 <ocb> ugh
14:31:59 <noobcake2465[m]> because the place i want to buy at only takes BTC, ETH, DOGE, USDC, LTC, DAI, and BCH
14:32:02 <noobcake2465[m]> which sucks
14:32:25 <noobcake2465[m]> https://old.reddit.com/r/binance/comments/qxpk15/the_0005_btc_flat_fee_is_freaking_absurd/hldsvld/
14:32:51 <noobcake2465[m]> kraken isn't an option as they seem to insist on KYC to even just give me a damn wallet lol
14:34:58 <ocb> tradeogre has been mentioned above, you can exchange xmr to btc there
14:38:05 <noobcake2465[m]> yeah might try that
14:42:17 <noobcake2465[m]> i hadn't tried kucoin yet
14:57:01 <noobcake2465[m]> <ocb> "tradeogre has been mentioned..." <- https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/grmvlr/tradeogre_has_gone_rogue/ do we know anything about this
14:57:05 <noobcake2465[m]> or is it fud
14:57:18 <noobcake2465[m]> no replies so
14:57:29 <noobcake2465[m]> and a year ago
15:08:58 <ocb> for every exchange one looks up there are good and bad reviews. i've used tradeogre about 9 months ago with a small amount ~70$ at that time and had no issues. do your own reasearch and be carful.
15:30:53 <noobcake2465[m]> figured as much
16:39:23 <LyzaL> TradeOgre always SEEMS shady, but once I had to contact their tech support.... which is on twitter lmao, but they were super responsive and helpful. never had any issue with them.
16:39:36 <LyzaL> just read that thread lmao accusing TO of stealing 7 dollars
16:40:04 <LyzaL> probably worth like $50 now, TradeOgre admins can retire
16:57:05 <noobcake2465[m]> <LyzaL> "just read that thread lmao..." <- it did make me laugh
17:18:51 <dont_thread_on_m> netsplits in 2021
17:18:56 <dont_thread_on_m> state of the art irc daemon
17:21:05 <noobcake2465[m]> shoulda used matrix
19:20:23 <tasse> ty for the CLI hint dEBRUYNE - works like a charm :)
19:46:10 <Guest62> hello - playing with monero for the first time - what is a working stagenet server and faucet? Most of the threads on reddit point me to xmr.to, which seems dead. The documentation on monerodocs.org talks about monero-stagenet.exan.tech port 38081 which seems also dead, the github docs for the rpc monero wallet talks about
19:46:10 <Guest62> pool.cloudissh.com:38081... which is also unreachable?
19:58:31 <Guest62> well, ok with monero-stagenet.exan.tech I'm getting SSL handshake failed, connection dropped: wrong version number
19:58:37 <Guest62> with verbose logging enabled.
20:00:11 <dont_thread_on_m> stagenet is the blockchain for debugging, afaik
20:04:27 <moneromooo> Try without any special nodes and wait, your daemon should eventually find something.
20:04:40 <moneromooo> As for faucet, just mine, the hash rate is probably very low.
20:07:50 <Guest62> uhm .. so, run my own stagenet monerod? no working public server for staging? (I'm on a puny laptop right now)
20:13:28 <ndorf> it will work fine on your puny laptop, especially if it has an SSD
20:14:49 <Guest62> I just started it, it's syncing, probably have 4-8 hours of download left...
20:45:09 <dEBRUYNE> tasse: np :)
20:45:15 <dEBRUYNE> GUI should work properly as well in the next release
20:52:35 <rbrunner> Guest62: Does it really have to be Stagenet? Testnet is currently running on the same Monero release, and should have more faucets available, e.g. my own https://monerotech.info/Wallet
20:56:15 <Guest62> thx
20:56:45 <Guest62> another question: for a merchant, would you use always the same address, or generate a sub address per transaction? pros and cons?
21:01:43 <moneromooo> Subaddresses are relatively cheap. They allow you to determine when a particular invoice is paid.
21:02:08 <moneromooo> It kinda depends on your own flow/db, though.
21:18:32 <Guest62> thanks. To be frank, the 64 bit payment ID is sufficient for the DB structure. But then... is the ID signed? Can I trust it to not be altered by the customer? Is re-using the same address over and over ok? ...
21:19:50 <moneromooo> The customer can alter it.
21:20:19 <moneromooo> You can reuse the same, the payment id gets encryped on the chain so observers cannot tell when one is reused.