06:10:10 <alMalsamo> Hi all, I have been doing some research on the history of PoW hashing algorithms used by Monero and I am trying to get it all straight, it is kind of confusing because it seems Monero has forked itself changing the hashing algorithm multiple times because there are multiple incompatible versions of Cryptonight... is there some resource that details each hashing algo change and when it happened, maybe 
06:10:17 <alMalsamo> with details about the differnce between Cryptonight versions?
06:43:47 <alMalsamo> Hmm I got disconnected, but I hope my question about CryptoNight varients was received?
06:46:52 <alMalsamo> Wow so I just discovered this site: https://wheretomine.io/algorithms/all
06:47:19 <alMalsamo> 21 different CryptoNight varients listed!!
06:47:30 <alMalsamo> So which ones did Monero use?
06:49:19 <ditatompel> Monero use RandomX
06:57:54 <alMalsamo> ditatompel: I *know* it uses RandomX now, did you read my original question?  I am asking about which PoW algorithms Monero has used in the PAST before switching to RandomX
07:01:47 <ditatompel> alMalsamo, I'm sorry I didn't read.I believe Monero use the cryptonight, since it's forked from bitbomero which forekd from bytecoin
07:09:06 <alMalsamo> Yes but Monero has used multiple versions of CryptoNight like the first CryptoNight that Bytecoin used and also CryptoNight V7 and CryptoNight V8 and CryptoNight-R
07:11:08 <alMalsamo> I am wondering what are the total versions of CryptoNight that Monero has used (just those three I just listed?) and also why change it multiple times, because didn't the Bitmain Antminer X3 only work with the original CryptoNight version?
07:23:17 <ditatompel> alMalsamo, I didn;t do that much research about that. But this disscussion may give a little bit more info https://github.com/SChernykh/CryptonightR/issues/1
07:38:45 <Inge> alMalsamo: There was a bit of an arms race for a while.
07:39:26 <Inge> alMalsamo: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/monero-difficulty.html#alltime
07:40:45 <Inge> the hashrate fall april 2018, oct 2018 and march 2019 I believe were the main PoW forks before RandomX was introduced on Nov 30th 2019
07:41:55 <Inge> They threw asics off, but the first two were worked around reasonably quickly. CN-R did not see any asic activity in the timeframe up until RX was introduced (although I might have heard that there are indications of asic support for it at some point)
08:10:08 <alMalsamo> Inge: Hmm do you know the version numbers of CryptoNight that were used at each fork?  Like I said in that URL I posted there are 21 different varients of CryptoNight making it all quite a bit confusing...
08:22:25 <moneromooo> alMalsamo: Cryptonight, then variant 1, then variant 2, then Cryptonight R, then Randomx.
08:23:02 <moneromooo> You can find the switch dates in the README IIRC.
08:23:52 <moneromooo> Right, from forks 7, 8  and 2, resp.
08:25:41 <moneromooo> CN-R is variant 3, but seems to have taken a name of its own.
08:27:07 <moneromooo> Wait. I'm missing one...
08:27:22 <moneromooo> 0, 7, 8 10, 12.
08:28:06 <alMalsamo> is either 10 or 12 also known as "R"?
08:29:05 <moneromooo> If you're asking "was v3 (Cryptonight R) introduced at v10", then yes.
08:29:36 <moneromooo> If you mean somthing else, rephrase.
08:29:59 <moneromooo> Fork 12 was the introduction of randomx.
08:31:07 <alMalsamo> Hmm so why does it jump from 0 to 7?  What are the numbers 0, 6, 7, 10, and 12 representing are they Monero version numbers or CryptoNight version numbers?
08:31:39 <moneromooo> < moneromooo> Right, from forks 7, 8  and 2, resp.
08:31:45 <alMalsamo> I also found this tidbit on cryptonight.monerobenchmarks.info:  "CN= Cryptonight (before April 6, 2018), CN-V7= Cryptonight V7 (after April 6, 2018 until October 10, 2018), CN-V8= Cryptonight V8 (from October 10, 2018 until March 9, 2019), CN-R/CN-V9= Cryptonight R/Cryptonight V9 (from March 9, 2019 hard fork to present)"
08:31:52 <moneromooo> Crytonight from the start of the chain.
08:32:03 <moneromooo> Variant 1 from fork 7.
08:32:07 <moneromooo> Variant 2 from fork 8.
08:32:07 <moneromooo> CN-R from fork 10.
08:32:09 <moneromooo> RandomX from fork 12.
08:32:48 <moneromooo> Ah yes,, IIRCsome people got confused and called v1 v8 etc. Ignore that.
08:32:51 <alMalsamo> Okay this is starting to clear things up, but I am still confused as to why it is "fork 7" when it is just the first update of CryptoNight variant
08:33:01 <moneromooo> I *think* it's the sane with no mods.
08:33:20 <moneromooo> Because monero did not need to change PoW in earlier forks.
08:33:54 <alMalsamo> Oh wow so you're saying there were forks of the Monero blockchain that *didn't* involve changing the PoW algorithm?
08:34:03 <moneromooo> Yes.
08:34:21 <moneromooo> See the README for what changed.
08:35:12 <moneromooo> Some "logical" forks were technically double forks, for user friendliness (allow new tx features, then disallow old version a day later).
08:35:20 <alMalsamo> Here? https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/README.md
08:35:42 <moneromooo> Yes. grep for "Scheduled software upgrades"
08:42:30 <alMalsamo> So was the Bitmain Antminer X3 designed for the *original* CryptoNight algorithm (v0)?
08:43:15 <moneromooo> That I don't know. Quite possibly.
08:44:28 <alMalsamo> Well were there actually ASICs made for CryptoNightv7 and CrytoNightv8 and CryptoNight-R that warranted making so many PoW algorithm changes?
08:44:32 <moneromooo> There were scams too IIRC, asics that did not exist, so people would order imaginary hw. Also asics said to mine "monero" sold after a fork after which they can't mine it.
08:45:19 <moneromooo> V7 and V8 don't exist. We stopped at v3 (internally) before randomx came alomg.
08:45:54 <moneromooo> I think there were asics for variants 1 and 2.
08:45:55 <alMalsamo> Well it looks like the original CryptoNight (v0) still has 32 coins listed here so the ASICs could probaby still mine these: https://wheretomine.io/algorithms/cryptonight
08:46:10 <moneromooo> I heard that one even worked for CN-R, but slowly.
08:47:04 <moneromooo> Sure, you can fork whatever and plug CN in it.
08:47:57 <alMalsamo> Hmm well it's confusing the nomenclature, most of the websites I find call it "CryptoNight v7" and "CryptoNight v8" like here: https://cryptonight.monerobenchmarks.info/ and here:  https://wheretomine.io/algorithms/all
08:48:31 <alMalsamo> But now I realise these version numbers more accurately refer to Monero blockchain forks and don't have anything to do with the actual version of the CryptoNight algorithm
08:48:34 <alMalsamo> right
08:48:35 <alMalsamo> ?
08:48:37 <moneromooo> Because there are people who don't know wqat they're talking about and confused fork version with pow variant. Shrug.
08:48:47 <moneromooo> Yes.
08:49:11 <moneromooo> Like you quoted somehting about refering to CN-R as V9, but it got enabled at V10.
08:49:25 <moneromooo> It's just some random mistake and poeple just copy.
08:49:42 <alMalsamo> Yes okay, I'll trust the README on this one
08:50:27 <alMalsamo> Do you know anything about all of the other CryptoNight varients listed on https://wheretomine.io/algorithms/all ?  There are 21 of them which is very surprising!  most of them Monero must have never used...
08:51:01 <moneromooo> I know Aeon used a version with half the memory and iterations (from memory).
08:51:30 <moneromooo> The rest, likely the usual: people wanting their own custom version to look interesting.
08:51:50 <moneromooo> There might be changes with an actual point in that list, but I could not tell you which.
08:52:47 <moneromooo> Another possibility is someone forking and wanting to not be swamped by ASICs right off the bat and making some random change just for this.
08:53:19 <moneromooo> It's unclear whether that'd work as ASICs had small programmable parts to try and preempt monero changes.
08:53:20 <alMalsamo> I see, but you aren't sure about which ASICs were released that targetted various versions of CryptoNight?
08:53:46 <moneromooo> I don't know enough to say. Wait for someone else to talk ASICs.
08:56:19 <alMalsamo> OKay... and do you know much about RandomWOW?  How is it different from RandomX?
09:00:39 <moneromooo> No idea.
09:00:50 <moneromooo> Maybe their README has some info ?
09:24:39 <Inge> alMalsamo: you might want to ask some of your questions in #monero-pow
09:32:18 <alMalsamo> moneromooo: I checked the readme but it always uses the term RandomX never RandomWow and there's nothing about the differences between the two algorithms
09:32:25 <alMalsamo> Inge: Cool thanks!
09:33:53 <Inge> RandomWow is probably related to Wownero, not Monero
09:34:13 <Inge> and they likely implemented RandomX some time ahead of Monero.
19:56:13 <selsta> alMalsamo: RandomWOW uses different parameters here https://github.com/tevador/RandomX/blob/master/src/configuration.h
19:56:41 <selsta> compare it with the RandomWOW source code and you will see the exact differences