00:41:08 <chown> I don't know what is going on with my wallet but my gui wallet isn't letting me open it because it says it's "already open by another wallet program" but that doesn't make any sense because I rebooted my whole machine so I don't understand what is going on 
00:41:40 <chown> I was trying to get it to mine but it started syncing again and was talking literally forever and then just locked up so it force killed it and now it wont let me back in
00:42:21 <chown> can some one help me please
00:45:02 <chown> Ok well I can only open my wallet under sudo now
00:59:18 <chown> Well apperenlty it was a permission issue
00:59:28 <chown> but now the wallet still wants to sync for whatever reason
00:59:33 <chown> it was fully sync'd
01:28:05 <Mochi101> chown, did changing ownership change its working directory?
01:29:34 <chown> Mochi101: Yeah I think so
01:29:44 <chown> Chown'ing the files seems to have worked
01:29:52 <chown> now I am just dealing with increadibly slow syncing
01:29:57 <chown> and I have a 300mb down connection
01:29:57 <Mochi101> ok
01:30:00 <chown> and an SSD
01:30:04 <chown> SDD**
01:30:12 <Mochi101> but it was synced you said?
01:30:25 <chown> yeah
01:30:30 <chown> 2mill something bites
01:30:47 <chown> or well blocks
01:31:06 <Mochi101> can't you just move the fully synced db to the proper current working directory, change ownership and that should be synced again
01:31:34 <chown> wdum?
01:31:44 <chown> It's pointing at the fullysync'd db
01:32:58 <Mochi101> 2,000,000 blocks isn't fully synced
01:33:14 <Mochi101> 2,618,653 is fully synced
01:33:26 <chown> right that is what it was at 
01:33:42 <chown> now it's at 1168447 and taking about 5 minutes to parse 20 blcoks
01:33:44 <chown> blocks*
01:33:50 <chown> It's crazy it will literally never finish at that rate
01:34:08 <Mochi101> ok, whatever
01:34:16 <Mochi101> you have it under control
01:34:28 <chown> hm? I'm asking for help D:
01:34:52 <Mochi101> and I'm trying to help
01:35:07 <chown> sorry maybe there is a miss understanding; 
01:35:45 <Mochi101> You were fully synced... then you changed ownership
01:35:56 <Mochi101> and suddenly you're resyncing from scratch.
01:35:59 <chown> no no, the issue was before that
01:36:07 <chown> I de-sync'd way before that
01:36:24 <chown> I was trying to fix it and broke some permissions
01:36:26 <Mochi101> you ran ./monerod --desync ?
01:36:35 <chown> nu uh
01:36:39 <Mochi101> sorry... that was a joke
01:36:43 <Mochi101> probably bad timing
01:37:15 <Mochi101> Yes, you changing stuff made it look somewhere else for the blockchain
01:37:20 <chown> lol
01:37:31 <Mochi101> so no, it's not pointed at the fully synced chain
01:37:43 <chown> Well like I said I was having the issue before I changed permissions 
01:37:44 <Mochi101> but if you say it is... ok
01:38:00 <chown> well it wouldn't actually be that big a deal if it wasn't taking so freaking long to sync
01:38:13 <chown> Should I just delete everything and start over?
01:38:28 <Mochi101> I don't know.
01:38:32 <Mochi101> Your call.
01:38:49 <Mochi101> I would probably just format my drive at this point and reinstall the OS.
01:39:03 <chown> lol why?
01:39:16 <chown> are there any devs in this room?
01:39:28 <Mochi101> yes
01:39:33 <Mochi101> lots of admins too
01:46:28 <Mochi101> Should I post the pic?
01:47:23 <chown> See shit look
01:47:43 <chown> I restarted it and now it says "Daemon is synchronized" (2618861)
01:47:57 <chown> I'm scared if I reload the GUI it will want me to sync again
01:48:04 <Mochi101> congratulations on your full sync.
01:48:23 <chown> I was already fully sync'd and it pulled the rug out from under me t.t
01:49:00 <Mochi101> To be honest it sounds like user error.
01:49:17 <chown> I mean I am a huge noob so I wouldn
01:49:21 <chown> 't deny that
01:49:29 <chown> But it just like I said kind of did it randomly
02:23:27 <chown> Yeah I shut my wallet off just to see and now I am de-sync'd again
02:23:52 <chown> oh wait ok not it sync'd back
02:23:53 <chown> that's so weird
03:13:02 <gingeropolous> man these patches are amazing
03:16:03 <Mochi101> Nicotine patches?
10:37:29 <farzat> ArticMine: Since your meeting with Monero Matteo I have been a huge fan
10:38:19 <farzat> When you said you joined monero cuz of scalability and not privacy, it felt inspiring
10:39:13 <farzat> I had thought before that the tail emission made sense, as one needs to replace destroyed coins
10:40:09 <farzat> Having a hard cap means there is outflow but no inflow
10:40:43 <farzat> Basically the number of coins effectively goes to zero with time, making the currency unusable
10:43:08 <farzat> People talked about how it was necessary to incetivize mining, but you were the first one to say it with impact
10:43:48 <farzat> I had been in love with the tail emission but you made me love it even more
11:32:57 <Mochi101> Sounds romantic farzat 
11:38:33 <farzat> Mochi101: Well, that means the idea of the tail emission is just that good
11:42:29 <farzat> Also ArticMine is smart
11:46:29 <farzat> He is the kind of guy I would like to listen to, regardless of whether I agree with him
11:48:01 <Mochi101> I don't want to make you jealous or anything farzat. But, I've actually met him in person, shook his hand and conversed with him.
11:49:18 * moneromooo sooo gets that Wayne's World "we're nor worthy!" scene in mind
11:51:23 <Mochi101> lol
13:15:10 <solominer> Hello
13:20:13 <solominer> I don't get it... how is the price of xmr calculated when all transactions are completely encrypted?
13:36:23 <moneromooo> You mean the amount of outputs ?
13:36:32 <moneromooo> There are two cases where it's needed:
13:37:06 <moneromooo> for the recipient to know what they received: they can decrypt it, as they have the matching secret key (or can derive it with their secret key)
13:38:06 <moneromooo> for verifiers to check no money was created over the inputs: some math allows to add up everything in encrypted inputs as well as outputs and verify they both add up to the same amount, without knowing the actual amount
13:38:39 <moneromooo> If you are interested in the actual math details, try "Zero to monero", it must be in there.
13:38:41 <hyc> nonoe of that has anything to do with the price of XMR
13:39:14 <moneromooo> I think it's amout the value of monero sent.
13:39:18 <moneromooo> about*
13:39:56 <solominer> thanks moneromooo but I'm talking about the price of 1 XMR. Currently it's displayed as 202,12 EUR but how is that calculated?!
13:40:05 <hyc> ...
13:40:09 <moneromooo> Oh.
13:40:38 <moneromooo> Well, if Alice buys some monero off Bob for 202.12, then 202.12 is the price :) Nothing more complicated.
13:41:17 <solominer> no one can see how much alice paid for it
13:41:33 <solominer> so how do stock markets know?
13:41:48 <moneromooo> Trading is usually done on exchanges, which make a list of sale/buy offers public.
13:42:17 <moneromooo> Stock markets work the same way. Public offers.
13:42:47 <solominer> ok so all data about how much xmr is worth is coming from exchanges?
13:42:57 <moneromooo> Indirectly, yes.
13:43:28 <moneromooo> It's what people want to pay for it. Trades are usually made on exchanges, so the info gets compiled by exchanges.
13:44:14 <solominer> so every deal that is not made on an exchange will not be reflected in value?
13:44:30 <hyc> correct
13:44:45 <solominer> and if xmr is banned from all exchanges it's basically dead...
13:45:03 <moneromooo> Again, it's what people want to pay for it. If there were no exchanges, pepple would still be willing to pay some price for it.
13:45:08 <hyc> it can't be banned from decentralized exchanges
13:45:09 <moneromooo> There'd be a lot less trade, for sure.
13:45:33 <moneromooo> Exchanges just make it easier to find other people to buy/sell from.
13:45:50 <moneromooo> Same as, eg, amazon makes it easier to buy random stuff.
13:46:52 <moneromooo> People setup shop on amazon because it's easier to find buyers. Buyers to there because it's easier to find stuff to buy. But if Amazon wasn't there, those things could still be bought and sold. Just less easily.
13:47:22 <moneromooo> Amazon doesn't decide the price. It's just a place where it's more convenient to do business.
13:48:03 <moneromooo> So the price usually practiced on amazon will "pull" the price practiced elsewhere, due to the volume, and arbitrage.
13:48:13 <hyc> (aside: amazon indirectly contols the price, based on minimum fees they charge for listing an item)
13:48:17 <moneromooo> But it's just a side effect of volume.
13:48:42 <solominer> ok so the current price is calculated from all currently open buy and sell offers
13:48:44 <moneromooo> OK, but for stuff that's not dirt cheap, it's de minimis.
13:49:12 <moneromooo> Well, technically from the price where buy and sell offers meet.
13:50:20 <hyc> right, unmet offers don't change the price. the price is only called the price when an actual sale occurs
13:52:23 <hyc> current price of 202.12 euro means somebody bought on an exchange for that exact price.
13:52:28 <solominer> what are the top 3 xmr exchanges (to and from €€€) that one should choose? ive been on localmonero because no registration needed.
13:52:29 <hyc> I can offer to sell at 203euro
13:52:49 <hyc> that means nothing unless someone actually buys at 203euro, then the price becomes 203.
13:53:27 <hyc> kraken is the #1 exchange, but totally centralized and requires KYC documentation
13:54:02 <hyc> there are no other centralized exchanges worth considering, IMO. none trustworthy anyway.
13:54:28 <solominer> localmonero isnt trustworthy?!
13:54:30 <hyc> this whole conversation is probably better in -markets
13:54:39 <hyc> localmonero isn't a centralized exchange
13:55:09 <solominer> i'm finished anyways. thanks for your feedback.
15:30:05 * lousiF slaps fluffypony around a bit with a large trout
15:30:30 <lousiF> 2022-05-08
15:59:41 <ditatompel> I'm looking a way to detect nodes which set high fee for txs using RPC.
15:59:55 <ditatompel> Is the 'get_fee_estimate' method is the *right* way to detect that? https://www.getmonero.org/resources/developer-guides/daemon-rpc.html#get_fee_estimate
16:00:58 <moneromooo> Yes.
16:01:49 <ditatompel> I see.. Thanks moneromooo 
16:01:58 <moneromooo> Note that if they really want to be jerks (which some people actually put effort into), they can return a high fee only if the pattern of RPC looks like the wallet making a tx.
16:02:40 <moneromooo> So you may want to make a tx via monero-wallet-rpc, which will call that in turn.
16:03:09 <moneromooo> Or just use your own node (unless you're just curious about the list).
16:03:37 <ditatompel> So the "best" way is trying to create tx, and see the response?
16:04:02 <moneromooo> Yes. And hope it's not done only 10% of the time :)
16:06:25 <gingeropolous> or u just slam the open node network with a lot of requests. whats wrong with a little ddos here and there
16:06:55 <gingeropolous> well i guess it wouldn't technically be ddos
16:07:18 <gingeropolous> and then the malicious actor could detect the ip trying to find the asshole nodes
16:08:54 <gingeropolous> *or*, if an asshole node is detected, one could ddos the asshole node with the entire monero network. but i guess that wouldn't be a good look
16:09:05 <ditatompel> daaamm, that would be really troublesome :D
17:11:59 <plowsof[m]> i have been 'foolishly' only checking 'get_fee_estimate' 
17:15:33 <plowsof[m]> i've yet to find one suspicious node, i only find '0' fee estimates from rpc-payment nodes 
17:16:49 <plowsof[m]> e.g. checking ditatompels list https://github.com/plowsof/xmr-get-fee-estimate-test/blob/main/ditatompel_nodes.md
19:38:11 <ditatompel> @plowsof[m], yeah, I just check that
19:38:34 <ditatompel> the result.status said "Client signature does not verify for get_base_fee_estimate" from that node
19:39:49 <plowsof[m]> ah yes, thats the payment - rpc one