02:36:35 <hyc> bitcoin still using BerkeleyDB? or LevelDB? either one sucks
03:16:14 <gingeropolous> had an interesting thought regarding how monero uses hardforks to roll out new stuff. In the case of some catastrophic bug introduced in a new release, what's stopping people from just going back to the old chain?
03:17:43 <gingeropolous> i mean, i know there's like socio-eceonomic flibberdegibbits, but say we have version x, then theres a version Y released and a fork with new Y rules, and then some n blocks after the fork it all falls apart... couldn't we all just go back to X, and miners just start putting their hash back on x?
03:18:48 <gingeropolous> flibbertigibbets is the proper, according to this clients spellcheck
03:20:01 <gingeropolous> i guess ppl that bought xmr on an exchange, and then deposited it on the new chain Y would have their monero histories erased entirely
03:21:02 <gingeropolous> weird to have a built in time machine
03:22:44 <gingeropolous> well i guess any blockchain is
03:48:56 <hyc> since ordinarily the chain with most PoW wins, how do you tell everyone that X is officially valid and forget about Y ?
04:01:58 <gingeropolous> the thought is that it would be self evident
04:02:16 <gingeropolous> like, news would get out that the new update had major flaws
04:02:48 <gingeropolous> and the amorpheous blob that is the monero network would just naturally migrate back to the working version
04:04:27 <gingeropolous> and in the way that monero currently works, its not really the chain with the most PoW... X and Y have different consensus rules
04:05:25 <gingeropolous> i mean, yeah, perhaps in the sense that there is available hashrate to attack the other in some fashion, then "the most PoW wins"
04:06:41 <gingeropolous> but when we fork to new consensus, the old consensus doesn't "lose", per se. it just withers because no one grows the chain. whithers 
04:07:59 <gingeropolous> nope def withers
06:25:42 <moneromooo> gingeropolous: not really a time machine, since txes sent to Y can be sent to X if they do not use inputs from after the fork.
06:26:33 <moneromooo> If there's a switch like BP to BP+, about a day's txes are subject to that.
06:26:57 <moneromooo> Well, less than a day in practice. If there's no such switch+ban, more than a day.
06:28:14 <moneromooo> So it'd be pretty messy. Some part of the early Y-after-X history would bleed onto X. 
13:48:01 <gingeropolous> right, it'd be messy, but monero would technically still work, just using X instead of Y
13:50:31 <gingeropolous> ok how did i just refresh a wallet with restore height of 2015 in less than 3 minutes
13:51:18 <moneromooo> You need to use solid state RAM, not the old spinning RAM. Much faster to refresh the wallet.
13:51:54 <gingeropolous> lol
13:52:04 <gingeropolous> A19uuqhhWYCKjipnpojZgU52QDPTYzzTnX17LDHde2i71bijam7yPQJT3dzutHNMjSTPCQFmegw3S47VHeEvHjMaKyAdz6h
13:53:39 <gingeropolous> oh the things i could do with this testnet monero
13:58:07 <gingeropolous> huh. why does that testnet wallet have A19 as the start
13:58:15 <gingeropolous> was that the old style?
14:01:19 <moneromooo> Starting with 9 or A. Hasn't changed AFAIK.
14:16:49 <Mochi102> I'm selling some stagenet XMR for cheap. I'll part with it for 1/2 the price of mainnet XMR.
14:17:05 <Mochi102> Just tell me how much you want.
16:20:54 <bomdia11> does monero-wallet-gui also support the creation of unsigned_monero_tx for view-only wallets or I can only do this via cli?
16:23:19 <selsta> it should work
16:23:30 <selsta> advanced options on transfer screen
16:44:05 <bomdia11> thanks selsta
17:32:15 <garth> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/uqznue/help_test_the_upcoming_major_monero_release_for/
17:33:55 <garth> How to help test the upcoming major release 👆
17:48:49 <sech1> garth there's also https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/issues/153 but this is for people who know how to compile from source
17:50:00 <moneromooo> Good thing someone added a makefile which does it all for you automatically ^_^
18:12:04 <apotheon> if you're on the right OS
18:13:38 <garth> Nice!
18:13:58 <moneromooo> What Linux ?
18:14:17 <garth> Is there even a single other cryptocurrency that has a p2p pool with significant hash?
18:14:21 <moneromooo> (I remember some guy answer "which windows do you have" when I said something would not work on my OS)
18:19:20 <apotheon> That's hilarious.
18:19:28 <apotheon> and/or depressing
18:20:47 <moneromooo> I also remember, maybe... 25 years ago... jeez... (that one's NOT depressing)
18:21:21 <moneromooo> I was in a mall, there was a tiny stall in the middle of the hallway, selling video games.
18:22:02 <moneromooo> I had a look, and there was a Linux section. I thought WTF. There were maybe a dozen boxes or so. I was so surprised, I picked two.
18:22:19 <moneromooo> The woman said "those are for linux, you realize that ?"
18:22:29 <moneromooo> I said "yes". She smiiiiled :D
18:23:12 <apotheon> nice
18:23:24 <moneromooo> My memory's a bit hazy, and I might be reconstructing here, but I think she had trouble printing a receipt.
18:23:47 <apotheon> Was the "which Windows" person clueless or denigrating Windows when asking that?
18:24:08 <apotheon> Either way is amusing, but with rather differing flavor.
18:24:20 <moneromooo> She ended up calling the stall's owner (boyfriend/hubby maybe, I dunno) for help, and said "someone bought linux games", she was excited :D
18:24:37 <apotheon> That seems like a fun time.
18:24:55 <moneromooo> Anyway, turns out she was using a linux machine to ring things up, and obviously printing fucked up, because printing on linux.
18:25:20 <moneromooo> I don't think she ended up fixing it, but who cares. I reckon we were the first ones to buy linux games from her.
18:25:38 <moneromooo> 25 years ago. She was a pioneer :D
18:25:53 <apotheon> sweet
18:26:29 <apotheon> Selling Linux games at a mall kiosk in the '90s is pretty far ahead of the game.
18:26:36 <moneromooo> So, yes. Some say "which windows", some just add a tiny linux category just in case. Like we do. There's bitcoin ? Fuck this, we'll have privacy for those who care enough.
18:27:08 <apotheon> right
18:27:10 <moneromooo> Gotta say, I was amazed when I browsed and saw linux games.
18:27:28 <moneromooo> I don't think she expected to sell any. It was just for the hell of it.
18:28:04 <apotheon> I recall seeing Red Hat and SuSE Linux boxes on shelves at a computer store, perhaps around the same time as your Linux games experience.
18:28:19 <moneromooo> The way she told us "it's for linux, do you realize", like she was kind of expecting us to say "oh shit, thanks", but with a hope in her eyes :D
18:28:24 <apotheon> also BeOS
18:28:27 <moneromooo> Badass of the year.
18:28:34 <apotheon> Hell, I think it was something like an OfficeMax kinda place.
18:29:12 <moneromooo> "Was the "which Windows" person clueless or denigrating" - that was something else entirely, just a clueless big chain electronics salesman.
18:29:24 <apotheon> gotcha
18:29:36 <apotheon> le sad, but amusing in a sorta depressing, dark humor way
18:29:58 <moneromooo> Well, that was maybe... 20 years ago this one. So... not super surprising either.
18:30:18 <apotheon> naturally
18:30:38 <apotheon> Macs were barely starting to come back around then, I think.
18:31:05 <moneromooo> Way before.
18:32:01 <moneromooo> Well, "way". Years, at least.
18:32:13 <apotheon> could be
18:32:24 <apotheon> My memory of the timeline was very fuzzy at the time.
18:32:41 <apotheon> I'm trying to remember when iMac commercials started showing up on TV.
18:33:27 <moneromooo> Maybe I have my dates a bit wrong, but I go by "when this happened, this was true" etc, and deduce the probably years...
18:33:53 <apotheon> Yeah, I'm kinda similar about trying to remember when things happened.
18:34:16 <apotheon> The first iMac ads I saw just kinda exist in a vacuum in my memory, though.
18:34:36 <moneromooo> Anyway. One the events in my life when I thought people can change the world, if they're in numbers.
18:35:00 <moneromooo> And numbers start with one. And I am one.
18:35:19 <apotheon> The way to get that kind of momentum is to entice people with economic incentives in some way -- which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with money, per se.
18:35:35 <apotheon> generally speaknig
18:35:38 <apotheon> s/nig/ing/
18:36:27 <apotheon> Did you like the games?
18:36:54 <moneromooo> One, very much so, played it for years. The other one, barely could run it...
18:37:25 <moneromooo> IIRC I could run it only after I switched to another distro :D Maybe even hardware, not sure.
18:38:31 <moneromooo> I think it might have been excruciatingly slow. I really can't remember much there...
18:38:47 <moneromooo> And I wasn't good enough to debug the kernel at the time.
18:39:15 <moneromooo> But 1/2 wasn't bad. Linux at the time, after all :D
18:40:01 <moneromooo> Anyway. Blather blather. Sorry :D
18:41:53 <apotheon> You don't need to apologize to *me*.  I found it interesting.
19:47:24 <garth> Very interesting
21:05:39 <remanifest> I was 12 when I installed Mandrake on my first computer. Quickly went to Slackware. Used that for a while, then went to Gentoo. Found my way to Debian, then Ubuntu, then Arch. Haven't looked back.
21:06:54 <remanifest> All that playing around with Linux helped me tremendously as I entered the workforce.
21:08:28 <remanifest> I had a hiatus for about 5 years where I used macOS almost exclusively. When I went back to Linux, I was blown away by how much it had matured.