09:04:24 <narf> is there a way to limit the size of the locally downloaded blockchain?
09:04:50 <moneromooo> Start monerod with --prune-blockchain. Ideally from the start, or near the start.
09:05:23 <moneromooo> Run monero-blockchain-prune-known-spent-data (different thing, and it only gets you 200 MB or so IIRC).
09:06:06 <moneromooo> Maybe mdb_copy will shave a few kB (but it'll increase soon enough as you get more blocks anyway).
09:06:40 <moneromooo> Filesystem compression might work, though that'll likely slow things down massively, and you'd need to make sure this still works with mmap.
09:34:15 <narf> its currently at 90gb with 481336 blocks remaining
12:26:11 <plowsof[m]> i put a guide together for pruning with the Monero GUI (it basically says delete everything and start from scratch to benefit from pruning) :( 
12:43:47 <merope> Why delete? If you already have a fully synched chain, you should run monero-blockchain-prune instead
12:44:26 <merope> The only reason not to do that is if you don't have enough storage space to keep the new pruned copy of the chain (~50GB)
12:44:41 <merope> s/synched/synced/
14:08:19 <plowsof[m]> usually the motivation for someone to want to prune a blockchain is because their hard drive is full (after the fact) - so they ask 'how to prune'? rather than running the prune tool (which takes almost / if not exactly the same time as starting from scratch and leaves the large blockchain behind still, (so they still see 90GB taken up) ~ and if you run the prune tool - it just adds another 50GB to your hard drive, and you still have to
14:08:20 <plowsof[m]> delete the old one =( 
14:11:57 <moneromooo> In theory, it should be possible to get lmdb to move pages to low fee pages, resize the map, then truncate the underlying file...
14:12:29 <moneromooo> I don't think lmdb can be asked that though. But if it could, it wuld allow in place pruning while shrinking the file.
14:15:07 <hyc> low fee pages?
14:15:56 <moneromooo> Low free pages, sorry.
14:16:48 <moneromooo> Low as in low file offset.
14:17:50 <hyc> none of what you described is necessary
14:18:31 <hyc> pages go onto the freelist whenever a COW occurs.
14:18:48 <hyc> pages are reused from the freelist for new writes
14:19:11 <moneromooo> But if your map is 0..N..M, you delete page N, the map is still 0..M.
14:19:12 <hyc> if all you're doing in a pruning op is deleting data, then more pages will be freed than consumed
14:19:50 <hyc> doesn't really matter, does it? if your 150GB file fit on disk before, it still fits now
14:19:54 <moneromooo> Yes, and those are still sitting in the mapped file. Not necessarily at the end.
14:20:06 <moneromooo> Shrewd :P
14:20:30 <moneromooo> But the context is doing this when the file reaches disk capacity.
14:20:48 <moneromooo> (free capacity)
14:20:52 <hyc> sure
14:21:13 <hyc> anyway, LMDB never gives space back to the OS because DBs always grow. so it's wasted effort.
14:21:15 <moneromooo> So if you don't shrink, you cvan't use the "free" space for other things. Which is annoying, fir 100 GB.
14:22:04 <hyc> you can of course use mdb_copy -c to make a compacted copy, if you have the space for a copy
14:22:22 <hyc> but that's just back to where this conv started...
14:22:50 <moneromooo> Right. You end up resyncing, which is also wasted effort.
14:23:06 <hyc> resyncing?
14:23:57 <moneromooo> If you have, say, 30 GB left. You can't mdb_copy. So if you need 50 GB for other stuff, you have to resync to get back to 130 GB left.
14:24:26 <moneromooo> Anyway, I'm not pushing for it. It's theoretically possible, but not available in practice, fair enough.
14:24:56 <hyc> I guess. but that's just kicking the can down the road. you need to ensure you have sufficient space for the future growth of the blockchain
14:25:27 <hyc> if someone is saying "hey, my blockchainDB is too big and I need space for these other things"
14:25:31 <moneromooo> Technically true, but not very useful.
14:25:42 <hyc> that's just stupid. they need more disk.
14:26:01 <moneromooo> Says every software developer :D
14:26:23 <moneromooo> And we end up with games taking 10 GB. OR whatever it is they take nowadyas.
14:26:28 <hyc> we're pretty lightweight compared to a modern game
14:26:34 <hyc> hundreds of GB
14:26:42 <moneromooo> Well, there you go.
14:27:15 <plowsof[m]> i was surprised by 'that' graph (which shows modern games space requirements 
14:27:50 <plowsof[m]> 10GB ,,, its much worse ^^
14:28:41 <hyc> 1TB microSD cards are now less than $30 https://www.amazon.com/2tb-micro-sd-card/s?k=2tb+micro+sd+card
14:29:18 <hyc> so I can't really sympathize with someone wanting to store blockchain plus other stuff on 1 drive
15:29:06 <QuickBASIC> Without looking Path of Exile takes like 50GB (for the MPQ). Civ VI is like 30GB. Some XBox games are egregious and take like 150GB.
15:29:06 <QuickBASIC> 150GB for Monero Blockchain honestly isn't bad when a lot of laptops come with 500GB and go up to 2TB.
15:30:26 <QuickBASIC> And you can pay like $5/mo for a VPS big enough to run a nodr just for personal use.
15:31:35 <plowsof[m]> to sympathise with me, we must first enter a time machine and go back to the year quake2 was released 
15:32:40 <plowsof[m]> i believe a bitcoin node is over 200?300GB? 
15:33:35 <QuickBASIC> My first PC didn't have a hard drive. I used to save typed programs on cassette tape. :-P
15:35:53 <hyc> 4TB NVMe SSD for $600, 8TB for $1300
15:36:14 <hyc> I've got a pair of 2TB in my laptop, pair of 4TB in my rockpro64
15:37:59 <hyc> Bitcoin will have a harder time because their DB engine is a lot slower. at those sizes, good luck...
15:39:34 <QuickBASIC> But BTC/BCH can prune spent outputs so easier to manage.
15:42:21 <hyc> do the nodes do that automatically?
16:08:17 <hyc> https://www.wired.com/story/alphabay-dark-web-market-ranking
16:08:39 <hyc> alphabay is #1 DNM again, monero-only
16:09:02 <jesopo> damn is alphabay still going
16:09:10 <hyc> resurrected
16:09:14 <jess> how long ago?
16:09:21 <hyc> #2 admin came back last year
16:09:26 <jess> oic
16:09:29 <jess> nice
17:09:34 <hyc> since alphabay kicked off the monero pump of 2017, will be interesting to see if they have a similar impact on markets again
19:50:36 <jwinterm> what to do if testnet node gets stuck during sync?
19:50:42 <jwinterm> I am stuck at 522739
19:51:26 <scoobybejesus> pop blocks?
19:52:17 <moneromooo> Exit, restart with --log-level 2, check what error you get when trying to sync again, post error.
19:53:18 <jwinterm> restarting fixed it 
19:53:27 <jwinterm> 🤷‍♀️
19:54:15 <jwinterm> wait maybe not....
20:49:13 <nioc> I am waiting 
20:52:05 <monero-hackerind> Hey everyone. I submitted my first CCS proposal and looking for feedback. (I shared the link on the Matrix room and sharing it on the irc channel too)
20:52:06 <monero-hackerind> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/323
20:52:06 <monero-hackerind> Monerosigner a Monero fork of seedsigner (a DIY airgapped bitcoin hardware wallet built out of raspberry pi zero). The idea is having a hardware wallet that anybody can built out of commodity parts helps reduce attack surface of supply chain and privacy considerations of customer lists of hardware wallet vendors. 
20:52:06 <monero-hackerind> Thank you in advance 
23:29:58 <jwinterm> popped 10k blocks and stuck on block 522739 again
23:33:51 <jwinterm> log-level 2 moneromooo https://pastebin.com/k6ttQVHa
23:33:56 <jwinterm> nothing jumps out at me...
23:36:09 <jwinterm> I just nuked testnet folder and going to start from scratch with seth as exclusive node
23:36:23 <Mochi102> Why are you using testnet?
23:37:18 <jwinterm> testing tings
23:37:26 <jwinterm> I was in favor of just testing on mainnet
23:37:32 <jwinterm> because mainnet node already synced
23:37:35 <Mochi102> stagenet is recommended no?
23:37:53 <jwinterm> y tho?
23:38:17 <jwinterm> y everything monero so cornplicated?
23:38:29 <plowsof[m]> researchers do cruel things on testnet too , they're big meanies 
23:38:38 <nioc> jwinterm: stagenet, Mochi102 knows
23:39:30 <plowsof[m]> is this related to the testnet hardfork though?
23:39:38 <jwinterm> ok
23:39:42 <jwinterm> thx boys
23:39:49 <Mochi102> <3
23:40:28 <plowsof[m]> i remember devs needing to add peers and such? because of the hardfork .. im not sure 
23:41:29 <nioc> testing development = testnet   
23:41:31 <nioc> testing things on monero = stagenet 
23:42:00 <nioc> **testing monero development = yesynet
23:42:09 <nioc> *testnet
23:42:14 <nioc> whew
23:42:26 <jwinterm> okiedokie
23:42:30 <jwinterm> stagenet syncing
23:42:36 <Mochi102> nice
23:42:46 <Mochi102> if you need some coins I have lots
23:43:19 <Mochi102> I'll sell you stagenet xmr at 1/2 the price of mainnet xmr jwinterm 
23:43:23 <Mochi102> How many do you need?
23:44:20 <jwinterm> I feel like I should be able to mine some...
23:47:17 <Mochi102> Well, why do that when you could just buy some?
23:47:28 <Mochi102> You can, there is a faucet too.
23:47:31 <Mochi102> Somewhere...
23:47:49 <Mochi102> https://community.rino.io/faucet/stagenet/
23:48:34 <jwinterm> gracias
23:48:46 <jwinterm> Current balance: 1109607 XMR 
23:48:47 <jwinterm> not bad
23:48:57 <Mochi102> yeah, they have more than me
23:49:09 <Mochi102> I only have like 7k sxmr
23:49:44 <Mochi102> I gave my seed phrases to asymptotically and he never wiped me out of my sxmr either.