16:43:46 <user85> how unsecure  is money gui client?
17:04:19 <Mochi101> user85, monero GUI client?
17:06:24 <selsta> user85: what kind of answer to you expect?
17:06:44 <user85> some answer that outlines potential holes
17:06:49 <user85> stuff to be aware of
17:07:08 <selsta> in general the CLI wallet is more secure because it also does mem
17:07:21 <selsta> in memory encryption*
17:07:50 <selsta> but that's only relevant if you have malware on your system and even then it doesn't 100% protect you from it
17:08:17 <selsta> otherwise i can't think of anything else
17:10:36 <Mochi101> I almost exclusively use the CLI
17:11:07 <Mochi101> Both Monerujo and Cake choke on my wallets.
17:11:53 <Mochi101> Too many txs I think.
17:12:54 <Mochi101> Kind of sad really.
17:13:43 <selsta> choke in what way?
17:18:41 <user85> ok yes cli can be better
17:19:20 <user85> also linking transactions - if i send funds from address a to address b both are mine they can not be linked or they can
17:23:27 <selsta> that's a more general monero related question and not gui specifically
17:24:56 <user85> yes
17:25:17 <Mochi101> selsta, they both become totally unresponsive.
17:25:36 <selsta> which phone?
17:25:40 <Mochi101> selsta, the wallets have >20k txs though
17:26:06 <Mochi101> https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a51-9963.php
17:26:37 <Mochi101> Normal person phone.
17:26:38 <selsta> the gui should work fine with 20k tx not sure about mobile wallets
17:26:59 <Mochi101> Yes, GUI woks fine. Mobile clients choke.
17:27:03 <selsta> dsc_ made sure to add pages to the wallet history
17:27:08 <selsta> because of it
17:27:18 <Mochi101> GUI used to choke but dsc_ fixed that adter me complaining.
17:28:20 <Mochi101> So now I'm going to complain about the mobile wallets.... maybe they'll get fixed too.
17:28:25 <nioc> Complain more please:)
17:28:44 <nioc> right on cue lol
17:29:50 <dsc_> yes hello this is the transaction history performance helpdesk
17:29:58 <selsta> hi
17:30:07 <dsc_> o/
17:30:38 <Mochi101> :D
17:31:14 <dsc_> so the reason why Cake/Monerujo are slow here is (probably) related to the way those apps render results to the screen. For example Cake uses Flutter and when you have 20k transactions, that's a lot of drawing for poor Flutter to do. 
17:31:15 <Mochi101> Do you guys even transact?
17:31:22 <SerHack> hi
17:31:40 <dsc_> for the monero GUI this was also a bit much, so I introduced pagination there
17:31:56 <Mochi101> dsc_, the mobile wallets need to cache older txs to disk or something... only keep the last 50 or so in memory
17:32:01 <selsta> dsc_: did you use qt data model thing in wowlet?
17:32:01 <dsc_> for Feather pagination was not neccesary, because QtWidgets can easily render 100k items without breaking a sweat
17:32:25 <dsc_> selsta: the wut? :P
17:32:33 <selsta> don't know how it's called
17:32:42 <dsc_> Yeah same model is being used as in the GUI
17:32:51 <selsta> you currently write the tx history in javascript array
17:32:52 <rbrunner> Maybe "virtualized data store"?
17:33:34 <Mochi101> I don't know. It's not a problem that affects many users at the moment. But it needs to be addressed by the mobile wallets soon.
17:33:53 <Mochi101> For me it's a terrible user experience.
17:34:06 <rbrunner> How did you get so many? With your dice games?
17:34:18 <Mochi101> Nice try FBI.
17:34:47 <Mochi101> rbrunner, yeah
17:34:50 <dsc_> I would suggest pagination for Cake/Monerujo
17:34:52 <rbrunner> Trust me, the FBI knows already, if there is something to know :)
17:35:23 <Mochi101> I dod a lot of testing on mainnet too.
17:35:39 <Mochi101> So I have a few wallets with a lot of txs.
17:35:48 <rbrunner> Questions like these may become important soon, when deciding on the architecture of future Seraphis and Jamtis wallets
17:36:12 <rbrunner> There may be wallets around with so many outputs that you can't read them in all at once.
17:36:20 <rbrunner> and need a true DB to manage
17:36:34 <rbrunner> at least not with decent performance
17:36:48 <dsc_> < Mochi101> dsc_, the mobile wallets need to cache older txs to disk or something... only keep the last 50 or so in memory <== the retrieval of transactions is fast, the rendering is what makes it slow
17:36:53 <Mochi101> yes... I imagine that in the future... hopefully there will be wallets with 100's of thousands of txs in them.
17:37:08 <Mochi101> ah I see dsc_ 
17:37:28 <Mochi101> Then they need to stop trying to render all of them.
17:37:34 <dsc_> exactly :P
17:37:55 <Mochi101> dsc_, will you work for cake?
17:38:01 <dsc_> its like the Twitter mobile app trying to render your feed from when you created your account
17:38:08 <rbrunner> "the retrieval of transactions is fast" Well, up to a certain point. Early Monero daemons also loaded the whole blockchain into RAM when they started!
17:39:06 <Mochi101> chocolate, vanilla, something special like tres leches... which do you prefer dsc_ ?
17:39:07 <dsc_> rbrunner: there is a libwallet function to retreive an array of Tx's, i think that one is quite fast
17:39:29 <dsc_> Mochi101: I worked on Cake quite a bit to make https://github.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/pull/362
17:39:33 <dsc_> but I dont think they can afford me
17:39:39 * dsc_ hides
17:40:08 <Mochi101> ahhh....wownero
17:40:17 <rbrunner> dsc_: Yes of course, it's an array kept in RAM by wallet2 anyway
17:40:30 <dsc_> rbrunner: ah ok
17:41:04 <rbrunner> The problem is e.g. wallet opening and saving if you get into really large numbers of outputs
17:41:53 <dsc_> rbrunner: in database land, you'd get a cursor to loop results
17:41:53 <rbrunner> E.g. after Mochi101 took over Macao
17:42:02 <dsc_> rbrunner: :p
17:42:13 <rbrunner> Exactly
17:42:42 <rbrunner> Trouble is, using a DB is way overkill for 99% or even 99.9% of all wallets in existence ...
17:43:13 <selsta> right, if someone has such a large wallet i assume they also have a couple gb ram for their wallet
17:44:36 <rbrunner> It's a bit like the transaction pool in the daemon that *does* use a db for less than a couple hundred waiting txs 99.9% of the time :)
17:46:19 <Mochi101> rbrunner, macao?
17:46:56 <rbrunner> Ah, come on, biggest gambling paradise on Earth, I think bigger than Vegas
17:47:08 <Mochi101> selsta, a normal user with 5-10 years of tx history will likely run into problems.
17:47:40 <Mochi101> monero.win is tiny
17:47:50 <rbrunner> FBI! FBI!
17:47:51 <Mochi101> it's just a game
17:47:54 <Mochi101> :D
17:48:13 <selsta> Mochi101: but you don't run into any problems ram wise, right?
17:48:31 <selsta> mobile wallets drawing the full tx history at once is a different topic
17:49:40 <Mochi101> selsta, tbh I've never really investigated into what's really going on.
17:50:43 <Mochi101> cake is using 350mb
17:50:46 <Mochi101> So... no
17:51:41 <Mochi101> and now it's unresponsive
17:51:52 <dsc_> you are using monero too hard
17:51:53 <rbrunner> That is called "demo effect"
17:52:06 <rbrunner> Well known among devs
17:52:12 <Mochi101> won't even get past the pin screen after sending it to the background to check ram usage and returning
17:52:38 <dsc_> a51?
17:52:44 <rbrunner> The FBI downloads your wallet right now :)
17:52:46 <Mochi101> Yes dsc_ Samsung A51
17:53:28 <dsc_> i think the only thing you can do is create an issue on their github
17:53:53 <Mochi101> yeah
17:54:13 <Mochi101> I will do it for both projects.
17:56:21 <Mochi101> You think I should use monero more lightly dsc_ ?
17:57:41 <dsc_> you're out of control dude...
17:57:50 <dsc_> :D
17:58:06 <dsc_> Using Monero over it's maximum allowed velocity!
17:58:19 <Mochi101> I may be addicted...
17:58:32 <Mochi101> Is there a Monero help line?
18:00:51 <dsc_> but selsta has a point, these are extraordinary requirements. it should get fixed eventually, but also note you are a heavy user
18:01:20 <dsc_> and since we are dealing with free software, yeah.. things may take a while
18:02:06 <Mochi101> As you see, I'm not making a massive deal about it. Not like I did with the locked_tx thing... hehehehe
18:02:20 <Mochi101> That was fun.