01:55:39 <Steven_M> Why would my node get this error?: 2022-08-09 00:15:55.559 E Unable to send transaction(s) via Dandelion++ stem
01:56:37 <Steven_M> dam, I forgot to delete the timestamp!
02:07:36 <selsta> Steven_M: are you using --tx-proxy ?
02:07:58 <selsta> otherwise how many in / out peers do you have when doing "status"?
02:12:25 <Steven_M> selsta: 12(out)+71(in) 
02:13:18 <selsta> are you using v0.18?
02:24:10 <Steven_M> selsta: yep
02:24:33 <selsta> ok if everything else works then don't worry about it
02:24:45 <selsta> seems like the node from the atem phase wasn't reachable
02:25:00 <Steven_M> okay
02:27:01 <Steven_M> I have another question, but I'd like to PM you for OPSEC reasons, may I?
02:29:08 <escapethe3ra[m]> https://monero.observer/moneromooo-monero-submits-pr-remove-cake-wallet-from-getmonero.org/
02:32:15 <escapethe3ra[m]> ^feel free to post on Reddit, bot isn't cooperating with me today
02:35:23 <Mochi101> posted
02:35:53 <Mochi101> Almost as bad as bch bs
02:39:35 <escapethe3ra[m]> nah it flagged yours too
02:39:37 <Mochi101> Awaiting moderator approval...
02:39:39 <Mochi101> jeese
02:42:17 <escapethe3ra[m]> guess you can't post anything that has 'cake wallet' keywords in the title directly, without mod approval, which is not cool
02:42:53 <zach> hi
02:43:06 <Epsilon> Hello
02:57:30 <selsta> what's the point of posting this to reddit?
02:57:54 <selsta> i've never seen a discussion improve that way
02:59:25 <Mochi101> spreading the knowledge that this controversy exists
03:01:49 <Mochi101> I live here selsta, and I didn't know about it.
03:03:58 <selsta> the discussion was in #monero-site
03:04:18 <Mochi101> yes
03:05:02 <selsta> literally every second account on reddit is a bot
03:05:23 <selsta> people can easily influence community sentiment
03:10:28 <Mochi101> Community is really trying to live up to the "Monero is the real Bitcoin" thing...
03:12:52 <selsta> escapethe3ra[m]: not sure if cakepay is relevant to the monero.com discussion
03:37:50 <selsta> cakepay is an optional thing and everyone can decide themselves if they are okay with the privacy
03:38:31 <selsta> with their privacy policy*
03:38:44 <selsta> adding it to the current discussion feels a bit dishonest to me, comes of as trying to sway the opinion of the reader
03:46:44 <selsta> maybe that's just how news sites work...
03:55:49 <selsta> Steven_M: you can PM me but might take a bit until I reply
16:12:51 <Evolver> What is Monero's precise inflation rate policy?
16:14:55 <moneromooo> IIRC, 0.6 monero floor subsidy per block. So once the decreasing subsidy formula drops below that, it's capped at 0.6.
16:15:03 <moneromooo> A block every 2 minutes on average.
16:15:20 <Evolver> Thanks. What percentage per year does this translate to, now and in the future?
16:15:53 <moneromooo> I think it's below 2% a year, possibly below 1%, can't recall. Never goes back up.
16:16:12 <sech1> https://p2pool.io/tail.html
16:16:46 <Evolver> > Current annual inflation rate is 0.86893638%
16:16:58 <sech1> if you watch the page long enough, you can see how % decreases bit by bit
16:17:15 <Evolver> so you're saying the rate will never go higher...
16:18:03 <sech1> if will only go lower
16:18:03 <nioc> correct, 0.6xmr per 2 minute block remains constant
16:18:07 <moneromooo> Well, constant emission, and every growing total amount.
16:18:13 <Evolver> got it
16:18:42 <Evolver> Does any human or other agent have the power to change this emission rate?
16:19:13 <Evolver> I mean can a panel decide tomorrow to increase it if they wanted to?
16:21:34 <Evolver> I'm just asking from a safety pov. Can the panel, if it's small, be pressured to 1000x the emission rate...
16:22:03 <sech1> no one will support this hardfork
16:23:19 <sech1> i.e. see Monero Classic fork from 2018. They're still alive, increased daily emissions 20x, added dev tax and so on. 0 users, only miners left
16:23:32 <Evolver> good to know
16:24:35 <Evolver> Different question: These days, how much XMR does a transaction cost?
16:25:24 <moneromooo> bc_dyn_stats 100 in monerod, take base fee, multiplty by... 1200 ? That's your typical tx cost.
16:26:15 <Evolver> sorry, I am a newb and I don't follow.
16:26:58 <Evolver> What's the tx cost in XMR? It's not 120,000.
16:27:05 <moneromooo> bc_dyn_stats 100 is a command in monerod, tells you the current base fee per byte. A typical tx is maybe 1200 bytes.
16:27:16 <sech1> minimal fee is 0.001$ for a transaction
16:27:22 <sech1> yes, that's 0.1 US cent
16:27:33 <Mochi101> so expensive
16:28:11 <Evolver> ha, thanks
16:28:12 <moneromooo> They go up by about 5x soon though.
16:28:16 <Evolver> oh how come
16:28:34 <moneromooo> Code change from the monero cabal.
16:28:58 <moneromooo> and I really don't see people saying no and reverting that change.
16:29:00 <Evolver> but what's their reasoning other than greed
16:29:13 <moneromooo> Mitigating spam.
16:29:32 <Evolver> sorry, what's spam in the context of a cryptocurrency...?
16:29:37 <moneromooo> There is no monero cabal btw. If you thought a miner cabal :D
16:30:01 <moneromooo> People sending a lot of transactions in order to increase nodes' verification CPU time and storage needs.
16:30:20 <Evolver> Is it an attack
16:30:34 <Evolver> Anyhow, ok
16:31:08 <Evolver> I hope Monero has plans in place to handle a Github ban of https://github.com/monero-project and of contributing users.
16:31:15 <Evolver> because it's just a matter of time before it happens
16:31:56 <Evolver> All org members can expect a sudden ban too.
16:32:48 <Evolver> and getmonero.org, that'll disappear too in the same week
16:33:07 <Evolver> so be prepared, anytime in the next decade or so
16:33:21 <moneromooo> Yes. It can also be part of a privacy attack. But definitely a DoS attack if it's maintained for a while.
16:34:18 <hyc> Monero project has prepared for github to get hostile since before M$ acquired it. All of that is a non-issue
16:34:29 <Evolver> hyc: is there a mirror?
16:34:33 <Evolver> hyc: .org is also dangerous
16:34:59 <Evolver> If both the github project and the .org site disappear at once, people will not know where to go
16:35:13 <moneromooo> Riht before you joined, pony was talking about how github data is constantly backed up.
16:35:23 <moneromooo> Well, monero github data.
16:35:40 <Evolver> That's great but people already need to know in advance where to go when it disappears along with the current website
16:36:04 <moneromooo> In that case, it's repo.getmonero.org, so it htey both go at once, that'd be a problem, yes.
16:36:16 <Evolver> it happened to Tornado Cash, both disappeared
16:36:41 <Evolver> They were using the .cash website.
16:37:03 <Evolver> I don't know if .ph is safe because archive.ph hasn't died for some reason
16:37:21 <moneromooo> But that was a mixer, I read. I suppose they might not care about intent, but... it feels a lot different. To me anyway. But point taken.
16:38:11 <Evolver> Is there an onion Tor web address for Monero project?
16:38:25 <moneromooo> Wasn't repo.getmonero.org reachable via i2p ? Rings a bell...
16:38:56 <Evolver> i2p, onion, lokinet -- all are possible candidates for failsafe access
16:39:08 <moneromooo> There is (a tor hidden service). I just looked.
16:39:28 <hyc> Isn't unstoppableweb all about domains that can't be stopped?
16:39:46 <moneromooo> http://monerotoruzizulg5ttgat2emf4d6fbmiea25detrmmy7erypseyteyd.onion for the record.
16:39:51 <Evolver> cool
16:40:05 <Evolver> People will go to Wikipedia to see what the official link is, so pls update that when it happens
16:40:20 <Evolver> Automated parsers of search engines also look there.
16:40:44 * moneromooo waits for wikipedia to mysteriously switch to monero dot com...
16:40:58 <hyc> lol
16:41:09 <Evolver> but IMO Monero must at all costs be ready in advance, otherwise XMR-USD price will crater 50-80%
16:41:15 <Evolver> within a week
16:41:27 <hyc> ^^ that's proof all of this has already been planned for
16:41:40 <hyc> you're preaching to the choir
16:41:47 <hyc> and your sermon is 5 years old
16:41:56 <Evolver> well that's good to hear but as a user I need to see it, right?
16:42:10 <Evolver> and I am not seeing mirror links on https://github.com/monero-project
16:42:29 <moneromooo> Well, never hurts to help do what you think should be done.
16:42:39 <hyc> no point. in an attack, any regularly registered domain would be targeted as well
16:43:34 <fluffypony> yeah
16:43:53 <fluffypony> our primary backup domains aren't public for a reason
16:44:03 <Evolver> ok
16:44:03 <fluffypony> we learned from TPB :)
16:44:04 <hyc> what matters is that PGP keys for signing official content are registered in public keyservers
16:44:49 <fluffypony> and our backup plans for GitHub have been in place since 2018
16:46:25 <Evolver> Good stuff, but if the naive user doesn't immediately see it, the XMR-USD price risks cratering very quickly. If they can quickly see the backup up, then maybe they won't sell.
16:46:43 <moneromooo> Place low buy orders ?
16:46:55 <hyc> ;)
16:47:01 <moneromooo> Wait. Exchanges will go too anyway.
16:47:06 <hyc> ^^
16:47:34 <Evolver> Hopefully there exist enough swap sites already.
16:48:27 <Evolver> Exchanges are then legally targetable mostly only if they support XMR <-> USD.
16:48:46 <Evolver> If they support XMR <-> [not USD] <-> USD, then they'd be less targetable.
16:49:25 <moneromooo> Why would monero be targetted then ? We're just monero <-> monero.
16:50:08 <Evolver> If you have to ask, "for facilitating money laundering", similar to how Tornado Cash was recently targeted.
16:50:27 <Evolver> I care about the project so that's why I brought up the topic.
16:50:38 <moneromooo> Then why would exchanges somehow keep monero <-> not-USD ?
16:51:49 <Evolver> I don't understand
16:52:17 <moneromooo> This is in reply to "Exchanges are then legally targetable mostly only if they support XMR <-> USD.". I don't think it makes sense.
16:52:42 <Evolver> None of this makes rational sense but it makes sense to the US govt
16:52:48 <Evolver> so I'm going by how they think
16:53:12 <moneromooo> If they (I'll assume "they" here is US govt and people wanting not to cross them) kill getmonero.org, which definitely doesn't do any money laundering, why would an exhcnage carrying monero be allowed to continue ? It seems nonsensical.
16:53:17 <Evolver> If they see that an international exchange is facilitating XMR <-> USD transactions, that's the legal reason that the US govt have to target the exchange.
16:53:46 <Evolver> moneromooo: Don't think by your rationality. It doesn't apply here. Logic doesn't apply here. It's the history of reasoning of the US govt that applies.
16:53:58 <Evolver> It's like when you're dealing with women, don't play by male logic.
16:54:34 <moneromooo> Do we have different logic ?
16:54:59 <Evolver> The reason, as I read, is that facilitating XMR <-> USD transactions puts US banks at risk
16:55:13 <Evolver> and so that's reason enough for the US govt to target such exchanges
16:55:38 <Evolver> From the outside, it's a retarded reason but I'm saying how they think.
16:58:11 <Evolver> imo, Monero can expect to grow a lot, and with this growth can come nasty attention of the govt.
17:04:14 <Evolver> If the exchanges only supports XMR <-> not-USD <-> USD, then the US govt doesn't have an equally strong legal qualification to target it.
17:05:34 <Mochi101> Evolver, Monero already has nasty government attention.
17:05:50 <Evolver> sure, which is why most US exchanges don't support it directly
17:06:15 <Evolver> but it hasn't seen worse levels of it yet, as for example what Tornado Cash saw
17:06:26 <Evolver> The greater the adoption, the worse it gets.
17:06:48 <Mochi101> apples and oranges
17:07:17 <selsta> fwiw apparently the Treasury has warned Tornado Cash in the past, as far as I know they didn't do that with monero yet.
17:07:28 <Evolver> I see
17:10:20 <garth> At some point we need to remove the Kovri repo from the project
17:10:52 <garth> Though the story, I assume, will live on into eternity
17:11:15 <Evolver> oh I see three kovri repos. Yeah, no reason for it to share the risk.
17:12:29 <Evolver> although I see it's just an obsolete old version from 2018
17:12:41 <Evolver> so it's not even about risk
17:13:57 <Evolver> garth: mininero should go
17:14:30 <moneromooo> Hmm. Actually, keeping monero command line will ensure only geeks use it, not money launderers.
17:14:46 <moneromooo> Though I guess they could hire geeks.
17:15:14 <Evolver> garth: kastelo repo should probably also be separate
17:15:55 <selsta> there is no risk with these repos
17:16:06 <Evolver> The risk is to the repos, not to Monero from them
17:16:31 <Evolver> an unnecessary risk
17:16:56 <Evolver> although I get it that it helps facilitate control
17:17:14 <Evolver> Wouldn't want anyone mucking with the code in those repos.
17:20:08 <hyc> kovri / kastelo are dead
17:22:37 <Evolver> Someone can maybe mirror Monero to https://radicle.network/ , even officially if possible
17:27:49 <hyc> yet another Intel SGX breach https://twitter.com/arstechnica/status/1557052095651618821
17:29:56 <garth> Fascinating
21:09:57 <Evolver> Sorry for this noob question, but if I run a Monero node, can I expect to make anything? If yes, then how much per month?
21:10:33 <Evolver> I don't mean for mining, just for transactions.
21:11:04 <selsta> no
21:11:21 <selsta> you don't get a reward for it
21:11:33 <Evolver> so who runs nodes then? big holders?
21:11:42 <Evolver> or just the miners?
21:11:51 <Epsilon> Anybody who wants to help the network
21:13:58 <sech1> Everyone runs a node for privacy and safety
21:14:03 <sech1> remote nodes can be malicious
21:14:25 <Evolver> I am assuming that some wallet software have their own nodes for protecting their users.
21:14:39 <Evolver> or do they