00:00:21 its hashrate won't just disappear from the network. it may quickly reappear under new ownership 00:00:59 perfect opportunity for someone interested in attacking the network, to acquire new mining hardware cheap 00:22:52 hyc, "Mining machines at a Bitcoin farm. Image: Shutterstock" 00:22:54 lol 00:23:05 Must be a really old picture. 00:23:11 lol 00:24:18 That would explain their bankruptcy though.... 00:24:21 :D 00:26:11 Meanwhile ETH is going full OFAC-compliant ... 00:55:10 think of the children hyc 02:14:37 A bitcoin adversary buying up ASICS during the bust part of the bitcoin boom-bust cycle is one of the collapse scenarios explored by Eric Budish: https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=101 20:47:29 Maybe a stupid question but I downloaded 0.18.0.0 and did a transaction today but its currently not showing on the receivers end. Ive since downloaded 0.18.1.2 but I assume there's been no hard changes since 0.18.0.0? 20:47:44 I know 0.18 was the hard fork 20:47:53 Im assuming I had to be on 0.18 min 20:54:56 Correct 21:06:41 Thought so. Thanks 21:07:00 Ive noticed moving coins around transactions have been taking strangely longer than usual today 21:07:14 stuff that normally takes 20 minutes has been taking me 50 minutes 21:32:17 Could be simply bad luck wrt blocks 21:32:19 ^ Visor 22:16:33 Hey, if someone downloaded the blockchain, put it in some deterministic order (does monerod do this?) and then verified it via hash. Would this be a reasonable way to distribute the blockchain? 22:17:11 :D 22:17:13 hehehe 22:17:24 (say on a USB to avoid downloading and using the hash to avoid worry about someone giving you a alt-chain or soemthing) 22:17:34 fragcula, you will not get any support from that here, but yes. 22:17:43 for that 22:18:02 fragcula: Aside from the fact it'd be outdated before u even finish copying it over to ur Usb, yeah. 22:18:11 fragcula, everybody here wants you to verify every tx yourself. 22:18:42 or verify the blockchain entirely yourself... 22:19:09 Mochi101: I do think it's a great shame that you can't do both. Can't import a blockchain and verify it entirely. 22:19:52 But that never seems to be an option, I can only assume for a good reason. 22:20:10 fragcula, anybody can distribute the blockchain as a file... 22:20:20 Nobody is stopping you. 22:20:31 But it wont be verified on import yes? 22:20:57 Someone here will ask... Who is going to verify the verified file? 22:21:02 centralization 22:21:20 To avoid centralization everybody should verify for themself. 22:21:40 The network wont accept an alt chain... ... ... dont quote me 22:22:14 I don't think it's the same as I don't have a proof mind you, but how many nodes would I need to query to prove our chains are the same? 22:22:24 The alt-chain will become a fork... nobody will be mining it though. 22:23:02 What does importing the raw blockchain from getmonero.org do? Surely it'd not be much more risky than using that 22:23:13 the point of a blockchain is that they're all spread out to the point that we're all checking and balancing against many nodes by virtue of just a few nodes; think of it as a group game of telephone but we're using hashsums to make sure what is being said is right 22:23:21 It's raw, it'll still be verified upon import. 22:23:31 Oh so could just use that right? 22:23:40 yes... but it's no quicker 22:24:04 Depends on your internet speed and any traffic limits 22:24:09 at that point I don' 22:24:22 I don't see why you wouldn't just host your own node at that point, fragcula * 22:24:43 Well the current blockchain is 140GB which is trivial to me, but not to everyone 22:24:53 you can always prune 22:24:54 fragcula, for most people verification is the bottleneck and not download speed 22:25:05 Mochi101: but that depends on your ISP? 22:25:14 also storage is cheap, it's not 1996 :) 22:25:23 sadly 22:25:26 aberration: I mean trivial in terms of data 22:25:28 1996 was a good year 22:25:43 fragcula: hm 22:25:51 Mochi101: I wasn't even born but I bet it was 22:26:14 I hadn't realise the raw file gets verified, that actually solves the issue 22:26:25 You missed out on when the internet was actually good and fun then aberration 22:26:28 I've always heard interesting stories about how people interacted when the internet first started out, like a wild west 22:27:16 Stories from your grandpa? 22:27:33 I am biased, the amount of resources we have now is exponentially unimaginable compared to the resources at that time; but I still agree with you. I think nostalgia is something that humanity will always value, the same way I'll value this time even if I have the equivalent of Google's supercomputer in my brain 50 years from now, Mochi101 22:27:52 lmao nah, random people on forums 22:28:08 my grandpa never even concieved the idea of internet, unfortunately 22:28:31 aberration, today the internet is ruled by gatekeepers like Alphabet and Meta... back then it was much different. 22:28:47 aberration: "In" your brain? That sounds horrible. 22:29:18 Was it better or was is it just better to be that age? 22:29:21 Mochi101: Tell me about it, I downloaded a windows vm and was disgusted by the amount of ads, I havent used windows in 2 years and the bloat is... it's actually quite fascinating at that point 22:29:39 I ask because I shun my switch, to emulate mario kart double dash which is decades old 22:30:11 "we're gonna force you to sign up for a microsoft account!!! but if you don't internet it's ok... WAIT YOU HAVE INTENRET??????? PLS USE FUCKING PING AND EDGE" jesus christ 22:30:12 is MK double dash really better than mk8 deluxe on the switch? The switch certainly has better online 22:30:15 ok rant over I apologize 22:30:27 Torr: I mean, we're saying that now, but who knows man; you can't feel pain in your brain :) 22:30:30 fragcula, it was more exciting... things moved so quickly. Everything seems a bit boring now... oh wow... more megapixels on my camera... wooo! 22:30:52 Mochi101: Would you agree the software is stagnating on the potential of hardware we have now? 22:31:23 No, I think there's just a lack of novel ideas. 22:31:34 we literally have 12 core processors the size of a playing card with decent cooling and yet... we still use to to view occasionally funny 15 second videos 22:32:03 Mochi101: I think one of the most novel things we have right now with tech is probably malware 22:32:14 weird to say but, if you think about it you have to be pretty creative, right? 22:32:18 aberration: I don't feel pain in many areas, still wouldn't want a computer there. 22:32:33 sure 22:32:43 Torr: oh don't get me wrong I agree with you, but I dont think the generations 4+ ahead of us will think the same 22:32:57 they'll be questioning our barbarism for not having one right now 22:33:24 aberration: you can't look at stable diffusion and think software is broadly stagnant? 22:33:34 crypto is exiting... I wish I was smart enough to have understood it when I first looked at it during the Bitcoin faucet days. 22:33:47 It's just moving in ways we didn't predict would be where innovation would go and happened behind our back 22:33:47 I thought it was stupid. 22:34:05 But it was entirely a lack of understanding of how the world around me actually worked. 22:34:24 fragcula: AI is one of things that can be magnified with the resources we have now, but I think what Mochi was expanding on was the general commercialization of the internet 22:34:31 While we were thinking our shoes would strap themselves up, AI was beating us at Go and painting anything in any style we want 22:34:54 I definitely agree and lament commercialization of internet 22:35:09 but then in internet when I was younger was a wild west 22:35:44 I feel like you can still find those places, they just take a bit of effort to 22:35:48 forums still have that niche 22:36:11 just abandon big 5 tech, like discord or the fucking metaverse hahahaha 22:36:36 I guess darknet is probably similar 22:36:42 oh yeah 22:36:48 I don't really access it though 22:36:58 it's really a victim of hyperbole 22:37:03 (despite running a tor relay for ? 5 years) 22:37:20 nice nice, I have an i2p router running for, i don't even know man 22:37:24 some vps in romania 22:37:35 haha mines in Hungary 22:37:55 good stuff, I love eastern europe; just for the VPSs though, I have no idea about politics and I dont care 22:38:03 just keep the server costs low and we're good 22:38:06 I wonder why the VPS are so prevalent in eastern europe 22:38:11 \/s 22:38:14 I was in Romania recently and loved the place, 22:38:28 not gonna lie sounds like a solid place to go given the value 22:38:52 did you go to Budapest? 22:38:57 Also I was impressed by my VPS approach recently. Condemn bad things, refuse to sensor 22:39:00 censor* 22:39:33 I've been to Budapest but for a stag night so kind of don't consider myself to have been in Hungary. 22:39:38 Do you mean Bucharest? 22:39:55 I have no idea but we can go with that mang let me just open firefox 22:40:10 haha 22:40:10 oh my god 22:40:23 im geographically retarded 22:40:25 my apologies 22:40:36 In Bucharest they have the palace of parliment 22:40:37 see now you know I wasn't kidding that I have no idea about eastern europe outside the mainstream 22:40:41 ahh 22:40:59 Michael Jackson stood on the balcony at a huge concert (part of a tour) 22:41:12 very nice, looks very clean too 22:41:14 In Bucharest and shouted "I love Budapest!" 22:41:18 So don't feel too bad :) 22:41:26 seriously?? LOOOOOOOOOOOL 22:41:33 nice factoid to know 22:41:48 haha, well or so the guide told us on the tour 22:42:38 damn we're on #monero and we're talking about a late singer's misinterpretation of geopolitical territories on the topic of tourism 22:42:48 very nice, i 22:42:53 i'll take the guide's word for it 22:45:41 i don't mind it at all, I just pray to the gods that we do not suffer the strike of the banhammer 22:51:30 aberration: haha it is *quite* off topic :) 22:52:33 fragcula: it's like going to a convention about coffee and discussing the national budget for welfare 22:52:39 it's not even remotely connected 22:53:04 well maybe, I bet there are some talented monero developers that reside in Romania and Hungary, maybe 22:53:50 Oh for sure, nation of monero devs 22:54:02 Maybe MoneroCon22 could be at the palace of parlement? 22:54:24 a-fucking-men brother, I will open up a service for plane tickets payable in XMR just for that 22:54:45 I will probably be a target of multiple 3 letter agencies for that but 22:54:47 worth it 22:54:59 you won't do it 22:55:12 you're right, I wont; but WE will 22:55:32 Maybe for MoneroCon they should write the codebase in a way that's actually readable and not likely full of vulnerabilities 22:56:07 hahaha damn, maybe we can add more ring signatures 22:56:18 i don't know what im talking about, but it sounds sophisticated and smart 22:56:28 I thought monero was amazing until I started reading the code 22:56:37 nice termer, pretty sure you just pitched the conference theme right there 22:56:38 you could created your own monero-hardened fork 22:56:45 fragcula that's right 22:56:47 write it in rust 22:56:58 rust will take over the linux kernel, give it 20 years 22:57:03 I don't know much about rust, but I do know it solves like 99, 99.9% of problems 22:57:09 what problems 22:57:20 Most people who talk about Rust are fanboys, or don't know what they're talking about 22:57:24 hey don't you know it's the best language ever created ever? power of C++ with the simplicity of py py 22:57:41 are you gonna shill nim or something 22:57:55 termer: there is truth to that, Rust is the most popular among coding communities; but actual employment of it in a practical matter is it's infancy 22:57:56 also Rust doesn't have the simplicity of python what are you talking about 22:58:02 im kidding man im joking 22:58:11 im trying to convey sarcasm in IRC it's not easy 22:58:12 I've heard some really stupid shit about Rust 22:58:32 maybe if people weren't constantly heaping praise on it without any good technical analysis then I would have thought that's a joke 22:58:40 but that's the kind of shit a retard rust fan would say 22:58:44 that's the problem lol 22:58:53 dude I dont even know rust, im a c++ shill 22:58:59 I get your frustration though 22:58:59 I went to a rust event at Mozilla HQ once, all I learnt was that Mozilla HQ has a fully stocked beer fridge 22:59:00 C++ sucks 22:59:04 oh come on 22:59:05 please 22:59:12 what is your IRC client tell me 22:59:16 Hexchat 22:59:20 ok give me a second 22:59:24 I also use software written in python 22:59:29 python sucks 22:59:43 93% C 22:59:44 The fact that you can write a cohesive application in something doesn't speak to the language's quality 22:59:51 yeah I like C a lot more 22:59:56 python indeed sucks I agree with you 100% 23:00:13 look I mean 23:00:18 I think one thing C++ did right over C is adding namespaces though 23:00:18 the sophistication is not a necessity 23:00:22 it's the virtue of ability 23:00:31 I don't like C much either but I like C++ less 23:00:34 it's just the fact that you can, that I admire about C++ 23:00:41 sure it'll take forever, but who cares 23:00:47 it's fun 23:00:49 you can be "sophisticated" in most languages that aren't Go 23:01:09 most of my time programming either C or C++ has been on embedded devices, and using C there is a lot more comfortable 23:01:19 also I think you'd get a kick out of this http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all 23:02:18 I reckon we should go back to C99 23:02:28 that was when I was comfortable, knew what was going on 23:03:06 termer: "It was only supposed to be a joke, I never thought people would take the book seriously. Anyone with half a brain can see that object-oriented programming is counter-intuitive, illogical and inefficient.." - Stroustrup 23:03:11 hahaha 23:04:07 OOP is a pain in the ass a lot of the time 23:04:12 Stroustrup's biggest mistake was not being a benevolent dictator 23:04:31 He was kind to all, and so did a disservice to everyone 23:04:31 only language I really liked was Nim but it's not mature enough to use for what I want to use it for 23:04:51 most of my time is in Java/Kotlin and C# 23:05:00 which is a shame but you get real work done with those 23:05:02 also JS 23:05:06 but that's because of webshit primarily 23:05:12 termer: what about clojure? 23:05:18 don't care about meme languages 23:05:39 termer: my approach to OOP is naive because I only really started to program 9 months ago, that's not really a lot of tenure to say where it is or it is not good; if OOP is a pain, then why do we see it so prevalent in the modern age? 23:05:40 What about compiling rust to WASM? 23:06:06 wether* 23:06:09 I don't know Rust, and wasm has several pain points in browsers, particularly regarding interaction with browser APIs 23:06:15 a lot of it has to be done through JS interop 23:06:24 I use Blazor at work which is C# running through wasm 23:06:25 whether** 23:06:27 I can tell you all about that 23:06:34 aberration OOP is nice for some things 23:06:36 whats that saying about OOP, you try to program a rainforest and you spend you time programming banana.peel()? 23:07:08 the problem is that it starts imposing artificial limitations on you because of strict interfaces and structures 23:07:54 You end up dealing with situation where you know for a fact that an object has a method that has these parameters and these types, but because it doesn't implement a specific interface, you can't use it where you know it's 100% possible to use 23:08:25 traits are a better way of reusing code than full OOP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trait_(computer_programming) 23:08:48 termer: you sound like you should be a rust fanboy 23:09:12 I never used Rust in my life and never got to talk to someone who wasn't a fanboy or used it professionally 23:09:22 so I never got a good opinion on it 23:09:46 I'm neutral on it but it looks a bit too complicated for my liking, and dealing with the tooling to get it all setup a few years ago was so much of a pain in the ass that I decided I didn't care to continue 23:09:57 Rust as a lot of perks. But it has a rigid paradigm for programming it's memory model. 23:09:57 termer: When you mention the problems that it "doesn't implement a specific interface", I have faced those things in my own experience and have to go the lengths of using a lot of NULLs and boolean flags to substitute those things that don't fit those parameters specifically. Now that I think of I can acquiesce to the idea that this most definitely stresses a lot on large projects. 23:10:17 termer: I 100% agree, half of rust feels like CS injokes 23:10:47 aberration Things can get even worse depending on what OOP implementation you're using 23:11:22 I come primarily from Java land, and things are really shit once you start using generics, you run into a lot more situations where you know full well something is possible, but you're not allowed to do it because of arbitrary implementation constraints 23:11:36 aberration: are you learning modern C++? 23:12:05 Rust's whole crutch is the performance that it provides with its syntax, no? Like, we can say other high level languages may be easier to develop and by virtue we get more ease in dev time because you're not spending twenty decades figuring out how to peel a banana while creating a forest. But when it comes to the low-level, wouldn't you be willing to yield to those difficulties, personally it 23:12:06 feels like a necessary evil. 23:12:48 fragcula: Mostly baby stuff, i am ignorant as to what you're alluding to exactly by "modern c++" as the book or just C++ like the standard above 17+ 23:12:53 Rusts crux is you write your code in a way I the compiler can verify against a solid memory model. 23:12:59 the most complicated software I have created was a keylogger with server communication 23:13:22 which I imagine is, I think that's why I am biased I keep seeing C++ as the best way for just interacting with a system, i'm very close minded in that sense 23:13:38 automation = python or bash, c++ = everything else 23:14:16 termer: Do you ever hit hardware constraints? 23:15:00 in what way 23:15:08 aberration: I had palpatation when I saw you mention using NULLs and boolean flags. and not say... std::optional 23:15:14 When I write C/C++ I'm working on microcontrollers, so yes I hit hardware constraints 23:15:15 brb 23:15:22 you typically do when you're working on boards with 2kb memory 23:15:44 null shouldn't exist 23:15:50 termer: as in, say your employer or a client needed you to optimize something that was functioning just as intended, but was not optimized to a degree that they would like I guess; if that makes sense 23:16:12 I've done optimization jobs for sites before when I was doing contracting 23:16:18 fragcula: forgive me my friend for I have never heard of that and I must look it up now, I might've just been writing like a schizo this whole time 23:16:32 but it was more in-depth than simple optimization of algorithms 23:16:42 it was usually database query optimization among other higher level things 23:17:20 fragcula: jesus christ this was EXACTLY what I needed, NOW i can jump on the NULL hate train :DD 23:19:19 termer: I see, I appreciate the explanation. It's something interesting to think about I guess, you can debate as a developer as to how to can maximize the resources you have at the moment and that journey is something we can all relate to. thx 23:19:54 most of my optimization experience is from webshit so it has a lot more to do with data access optimization 23:20:02 I/O is more expensive than CPU cycles 23:20:44 right right haha, I am still flabbergasted at how Google manages to host youtube 23:20:55 that's a can of worms of its very own 23:21:09 I've been working on and building video sites for years so I have quite a bit of insight on how those work 23:21:11 there's this one dude who has a bot that reposts questions from stack overflow and he has, like 1 million videos within the span of 3 years 23:21:21 I can imagine 23:21:21 and 23:21:47 termer: wait are you somewhat responsible for the security of it as well? Because intutively I can imagine something to be functional, but not secure 23:21:53 oh shit nice nice 23:22:14 yeah I do security 23:22:20 man it goes really deep, what video encodes are the best for viewing + not hoarding bandwith 23:22:22 ah 23:22:22 it's not my job description but I do a lot of that 23:22:36 you gotta tell me, is XSS and sql injections still a problem today? 23:22:39 yes 23:22:44 I was just dealing with that shit at work today 23:22:51 ofc they are but 23:22:51 like hmm 23:22:52 because people still do stupid things 23:22:53 are they more patched than compared to say the last 10 years? 23:22:58 yes 23:23:00 but it's still a problem 23:23:05 especially SQL injection 23:23:11 if you were to look at it relatively 23:23:16 damn 23:23:24 XSS is much less of a problem now that people are using frontend frameworks on the web more 23:23:35 it's much less of a problem than it used to be 23:23:36 sandboxing too right? 23:23:41 on the frontend? 23:23:44 the browser is already a sandbox 23:23:53 i see 23:24:47 oh eh I guess there have been cases where things have escaped beyond say the js that's being hosted on a particular webpage. something about manipulating cookies 23:25:09 browser JS engines sometimes have bugs that let you execute arbitrary code 23:25:22 there was one in chrome several months ago 23:25:31 but it's not typically a problem 23:25:53 most of the time, the exploits that are most profitable don't need to get access to your machine, it's about getting access to credentials and different things 23:26:16 no it was... I believe there was a legitimate issue at some point or even know of cookies being stolen 23:26:29 dunno if that applies to sandboxing though, ill concede to taht 23:26:29 wait no I am correct, not about manipulating cookies I do remember 23:27:06 a very serious vulnerability on the firefox browser 23:27:06 and ergo the tor browser 23:27:06 that allowed de-anonymization and RCE if I recall correctly ill see if I can find the CVE 23:27:06 yeah yeah 23:27:12 like I imagine that is a situation in which a sandbox did not achieve it's purpose as a sandbox 23:27:12 hm hm hm 23:27:46 https://threatpost.com/firefox-zero-day-bugs-rce-sandbox-escape/178779/ 23:27:57 yeah it can happen 23:28:04 it's certainly not impossible 23:28:10 march of this year 23:28:19 this is why I keep javascript off by default 23:28:44 termer: yep, i've heard these exploits are pretty professional at its core, like legit state actors and/or bigtime bug hunters ofc, not novice things by any means 23:28:46 amen 23:28:50 noscript should be mandatory 23:28:52 jk 23:29:21 the normals will never prefer security over convienience 23:29:21 unfortunately 23:29:47 SMS 2FA for days, and using your dogs favorite treat as a secret question 23:29:49 the 'normals' don't know they are running javashit 23:30:02 lmao 23:30:06 they don't know what it is 23:30:15 right, they don't even know what it is 23:30:18 I will use the term javashit from now on 23:30:26 =P 23:30:28 javascript is fine enough 23:30:32 modern JS anyway 23:31:16 yeah there's no doubt about it, it's pretty interesting to see what is possible without it too 23:31:31 I write more backend JS with node than I do frontend JS 23:31:42 oh man, you can not like modern JS and hate on C++ 23:31:43 not really a big fan of the browser turning into a giant application runtime 23:31:56 fragcula I do like modern JS well enough 23:32:16 like actual JS, or typescript? 23:32:28 well now there's my biggest issue with JS 23:32:30 no types lol 23:32:52 I think typescript is stupid outside of the browser 23:32:58 if you're using typescript in the backend, you're an idiot 23:33:11 TypeScript is awesome if you need to use JS though 23:33:22 But I don't use TS most of the time 23:33:41 I just use WebStorm IDE and faithfully annotate everything with JSDoc type annotations 23:33:46 it's basically typescript at that point 23:33:50 but without the build step 23:33:53 The obvious horrible problem is running code in a browser. Then again, people run code in their 'smart fridges'... 23:34:03 not equivalent at all 23:34:15 there's nothing wrong with a little scripting in the browser 23:34:27 I just don't like that it has become an all-encompassing application runtime 23:34:38 a little scripting to do what? 23:34:46 make things interactive 23:34:54 termer: as in you want the backend to not be TS/JS or, JS only and frontend to be TS? 23:35:19 For example, I wrote a video site that runs without any JavaScript, BUT if you have it enabled, tag input is more fluid and it "tagifies" the tags you type into the field as2333 23:35:30 termer that's how it starts. Then you end up with an "all ecompasing runtime". 23:35:38 slippery slope fallacy 23:35:45 as2333: IoT will be a security apocolypse, I don't see a future that there will not be a capitulation point of there being too many points of security flaws there not being those who will take advantage of it. it's figuratively as if we all stripped out all the locks on our doors for the sake of saving 5 seconds and 10 calories 23:35:52 fragcula backend shouldn't be TS 23:36:16 termer I know it theory you could keep it under control. But that's not what has happened. 23:36:16 JS backend is ok enough but it gets hard to maintain at large sizes 23:36:21 all backend should be assembly 23:36:26 termer: so you expect people to write TS and then switch to JS for backend, why tho? 23:36:28 as2333 It's the problem of the medium, not the implementation 23:36:29 in* theory 23:36:38 the web made it really tempting 23:36:50 fragcula Let me put it this way 23:37:15 If you're starting a new backend project, and you want static typing, use a language with real static typing, not one that's just an abstraction that gets translated back into a dynamically typed scripting language 23:37:16 That's stupid 23:37:27 If you have an existing JS backend that's getting hard to maintain, then go ahead and use TS 23:37:27 aberration yeah - I'm waiting for people to be locked inside their houses by their 'smart locks'. Maybe at that point they'll get half a clue. 23:37:29 That's what I've done before 23:37:45 translated a 20k line JS backend project into TS to make it more maintainable 23:37:50 but I've never once started a new backend project in TS 23:37:55 I just use Kotlin with Vert.x for that 23:37:59 termer: I agree in principle, in practice, using the same language front and back is so convenient 23:38:11 only if you're doing code sharing right 23:38:13 (when a decent number of projects start with single person) 23:38:32 In practice, the only thing I typically share with backend and frontend is small util functions and DTOs 23:38:46 but things like DTOs can be auto-generated for different languages from a common format 23:38:50 as2333: not just that, but also a big open arms to let companies bend you over --> https://news.yahoo.com/thousands-xcel-customers-locked-thermostats-041655981.html 23:38:52 that's how protobuf works 23:39:38 aberration exactly. The "code is law" thing will get a whole new meaning 23:40:03 it will and it'll be funny 23:40:19 as2333: I can't wait for my smart watch to tighten automatically when it detects my blood pressure is too low or my smart smart smart headphones injecting morphine in my head if my dopamine to blood ratio is too low :)))) 23:41:01 aberration it's going to be a brave new world... 23:41:42 as2333: very interesting world ahead of us man, code is law, law is enforcement, enforcement is a force, and that force is reality 23:41:50 poop is turd 23:42:04 piss is lemon water 23:42:42 the only difference is that it's free 23:45:11 aberration yeah pretty much. And not the kind of world I'm looking foward to =/ 23:47:33 as2333: if it's any solace, 99% of those situations are by choice 23:47:42 as a side note of sorts, I remember java's slogan "the network is the computer" and their java applets. That originally didn't cach on. Javascript did thouth. 23:47:45 though 23:48:23 java predicted the blockchain !!1111!!!!!!1111 23:49:04 Is it fair to say java didn't catch on? I mean it kind of rules the education and jobs side of things 23:49:23 I'm sure today CS sources will have semesters in javascript lol 23:49:29 fragcula I mean the part about running java applets in browsers. 23:49:45 yeah, that was weird 23:50:00 well that's what javascript does now... 23:50:54 It is odd that Java applets for phones were a thing, then java and Dalvik are connected in a way I've never looked into lol 23:51:28 termer seems to be a java guy, like it's still kind of everwhere. 23:51:48 Java is decent 23:51:50 it gets things done 23:51:56 it's safe 23:52:00 It's just a memory hog 23:52:22 VM languages are a bit silly though 23:52:30 I2P uses java, therefore; I respect java. 23:52:30 ARM had java bytecode extensions right? That was wild 23:54:08 fragcula: damn I never heard of bytecode, where would this be compared to ASM and machine code? 23:54:30 you should probably use i2pd if you're using i2p so you don't have to run a JVM instance 23:54:44 aberration bytecode is basically asm for a virtual machine spec 23:54:49 the actual machine is not a real CPU 23:54:57 but it's implemented by a virtual machine runtime 23:55:03 JVM stands for Java Virtual Machine 23:55:09