00:13:36 <Sir_Teal_Esq> Whats up Monero fans hows it smelling?
00:18:26 <Sir_Teal_Esq> Hey I am not native linux what does the command --data-dir=, do exactly I have a rough idea but i just want to confirm.
00:20:21 <plowsof11> the directory where it will read/write blockchain database to (the default is $home/.bitmonero , only change if you want a custom one
00:22:44 <Sir_Teal_Esq> so where does that command send it to just as I wrote it?
00:27:12 <plowsof11> more info in this comment towards the end https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/7226
00:27:39 <plowsof11> no "=" required 
00:27:52 <Sir_Teal_Esq> I guess I should ask this will ./monerod --data-dir=, send that data to some place else. am I saving the data to root?
00:27:59 <Sir_Teal_Esq> oh ok ill check it out.
00:34:26 <Sir_Teal_Esq> so what channel is the party in?
00:51:20 <Sir_Teal_Esq> these monero channels sure are dead huh.
00:56:53 <as2333> IRC is dead
00:58:46 <Sir_Teal_Esq> That is kinda sad really I loved IRC back in the day.
00:59:11 <Sir_Teal_Esq> We have to bring it back like the word wizard in that episode of robot chicken,
01:09:58 <DataHoarder> IRC: ask, wait, patience
02:24:42 <Sir_Teal_Esq> Swing low sweet data bit wondering when my ping will come home. Swing low sweet data bit I'LL be coming when my ping comes home.
02:24:58 <Sir_Teal_Esq> daemon spirituals
07:37:27 <BigBoiiMike216> Hello everyone, Is there anyone online in here?
08:03:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes
08:05:32 <BigBoiiMike216> I have some questions about mining Monero, Would you care to answer them for me?
08:11:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe
08:12:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Everyone else has not replied because youre https://dontasktoask.com/ ing"
08:12:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/"/)*/
08:18:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> BigBoiiMike216:  yawn. Its a good thing I dont bill by the hr
08:19:04 <plowsof11> can we try and guess the question 
08:19:04 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Just ask
08:19:04 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Hi
08:19:04 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Question
08:19:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Imaging being support, and getting left on hold 😝😝
08:19:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> No you dont need xmrig
08:19:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> But it has a higher hashrate 
08:19:36 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Something to do with seed?
08:19:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Was I warm?
08:20:13 <BigBoiiMike216> Sorry, I was reading a article 
08:20:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Can my university heat our club using Monero rigs?
08:20:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> BigBoiiMike216: The* article 
08:20:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Read dontasktoask.com
08:20:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> We'll wait 
08:20:50 <BigBoiiMike216> So, I want to potentially start mining Monero, How would I figure out if my machine is powerful enough?
08:21:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xmrig.com/benchmarks
08:21:25 <BigBoiiMike216> I'm not leaving this window since you guys agreed to maybe answer some questions for me.
08:21:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> * Xmrig.com/benchmark
08:21:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Oh well damn
08:22:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> I am leaving this window then 🥲
08:22:17 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Closing soon
08:22:28 <DanIsnotthemanBr> For Christmas holidays
08:23:04 <BigBoiiMike216> Okay, So i attempted to mine monero a few months back, but i couldnt get it to connect to a node. I believe that's what it's called.
08:23:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, you did something wrong and gave up
08:23:31 <BigBoiiMike216> Are you supposed to join up with multiple people in order to make it profitable?
08:23:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Next time > dontasktoask.com and then you get better instructions 
08:24:01 <BigBoiiMike216> Yeah, I gave up because something changed in my life and I didn't have spare time for awhile.
08:24:15 <BigBoiiMike216> Thank you.
08:24:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Profitable, as in, fiat? 
08:24:18 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Mining in a pool so yeah
08:24:39 <BigBoiiMike216> as in monero, I wouldn't convert it into fiat.
08:25:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then profit is non existent and yes it is a good idea to mine
08:26:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Profit only exists if you are trying to pay production costs with the xmr.
08:26:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you pay the electric bill out-of-pocket, you are essentially buying monero for the cost of the electric. 
08:26:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Profit doesnt exist unless youre trading it / selling it back 
08:26:49 <BigBoiiMike216> Okay, Thank you. I am going to attempt to setup a rig. I will probably be back to ask more questions.
08:27:12 <BigBoiiMike216> I am on a fixed eletric bill of $12 a month
08:27:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> 👍 #xmrmine:matrix.org  has some better info for miners 
08:27:22 <BigBoiiMike216> That's why i thought that it would be a good idea
08:27:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats why is IS a good idwa
08:27:59 <plowsof11> it's not a vps is it? 
08:28:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> "I live in the metaverse, on a vps" - plowsof
08:28:42 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Is there a vps that lets you run a node?
08:28:56 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Not mining
08:32:43 <plowsof11> hetzner are 'anti crypto nodes' will remove them (but theyre semi kyc/fiat anyway) pretty much all vps's will let you run a node
08:36:02 <plowsof11> but if you've got an old android phone somewhere... 
08:38:36 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Was going to try k3 or k8 setup
08:39:23 <DanIsnotthemanBr> I do already have a node on my promox server
09:09:34 <narodnik> you could try linode.com or microtronix (accepts crypto)
13:16:55 <sophia`> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-may-ban-banks-crypto-145141212.html
13:18:25 <sophia`> how will people get their moneros
13:18:40 <sophia`> i'm sure there will be ways 
13:25:16 <monerobull[m]1> Haveno
13:25:20 <monerobull[m]1> BasicSwap 
13:25:27 <monerobull[m]1> Serai
13:25:38 <monerobull[m]1> Maybe Thorchain and MayaProtocol 
13:27:19 <monerobull[m]1> Ban for banks and providers but not blanket ban would be the greatest outcome 
13:28:40 <monerobull[m]1> Blanket ban would scare people away from using it, bank and provider ban makes it so people use xmr less for speculation while also strengthening the decentralized tools to trade it
14:19:08 <sophia`> monerobull[m]1: the idea for the governments may be to evenetually ban all crypto 
14:19:25 <sophia`> they generally do things in baby steps
14:28:46 <caveman> i hope this is the right place to discuss this:  i'm increasingly sickened by how MMT/keynesian economics steals our money.  i'm all for paying for services that we use, but the way governments take our money for them is very shady (taxation is a bad idea; we should rather have service/goods fees).
14:28:49 <caveman> however, unfortunately, i'm also disappointed that all cryptocurrencies seem to require a permanent network infrastructure, such as the internet.  this makes them very easy to regulate by governments who have enough power to control any permanent structure physically.
14:29:32 <caveman> what is the solution to this problem?
14:48:35 <xfedex[m]> <caveman> "what is the solution to this..." <- Mesh networks
15:04:13 <caveman> xfedex[m]: over which network infrastructure?  
15:04:37 <caveman> e.g. over the internet?
15:08:28 <Mochi101> caveman, easy to regulate? You mean like they did with file sharing, or pirating movies and music? Or drugs?
15:09:27 <xfedex[m]> <caveman> "what is the solution to this..." <- As far as I know, there is no solution right now.
15:09:27 <xfedex[m]> The solution would be a mesh network, sort of a decentralized internet.
15:09:49 <caveman> yes.  but they still didn't try  hard enough on drugs and piracy than they can.  they can trace ip addresses and get their real names/addresses from the service provider.
15:10:17 <Mochi101> Like they do in Germany, sure.
15:10:29 <caveman> if it gets serious enough, they can ban networks like tor, and trace the source ip address of anyone that uses tor.
15:11:29 <xfedex[m]> caveman: they could as well keep tor legal, and DDoS it until it's useless
15:11:40 <caveman> true.
15:11:54 <xfedex[m]> Tor is outdated
15:11:58 <Mochi101> caveman, but if people can't be bothered to use a VPN to protect themselves from the IP Lawyer sleuths, how can you expect them to care enough to set themselves up on a mesh network?
15:12:33 <caveman> thing is, even if they use a vpn to protect themselves, governments can make vpns illegal, or at least require vpns to log source ip addresses and hand them.
15:13:15 <Mochi101> These are hypothetical situations, and you can throw them out all day. What if they make life on earth illegal?!?!??!?!
15:14:56 <caveman> not that hypothetical at all.  it's quite easy of them to do so.  it is only a matter of when they feel the reward is worth it.  apparently they don't see it worth it for today's movie piracy, drugs trade and cryptocurrencies.  today's cryptocurrencies are not a threat to fiat yet (due to them being too slow).  but as soon as cryptocurrencies actually start to replace fiat, they'll freak maximally.
15:22:47 <monerobull[m]1> I can buy a VPS everywhere on earth
15:23:12 <monerobull[m]1> Not every country will ban everything 
15:23:14 <caveman> don't.  they're useless mostly for privacy.  just get a freevpn, and from it use tor.
15:23:21 <caveman> free vpn*
15:23:31 <monerobull[m]1> Whag
15:23:37 <monerobull[m]1> * Whaz
15:23:40 <monerobull[m]1> * What
15:23:49 <monerobull[m]1> Free VPNs are garbage and probably sell your data
15:24:09 <caveman> the war against fiat will be very global.  all nations are using some fiat, hence they will all have the incentive to fight the alternative.
15:24:33 <caveman> you cannot trust a vps provider either.  they will also know your credit card information.
15:24:38 <monerobull[m]1> Try to get every country to agree on something like this. Good luck
15:24:49 <monerobull[m]1> caveman: Kek
15:24:56 <monerobull[m]1> All my servers are paid for with monero
15:25:10 <caveman> they still know your ip.
15:25:37 <monerobull[m]1> Ok and? The company is registered in the Seychelles 
15:25:53 <caveman> which company?
15:26:09 <monerobull[m]1> Nja.la
15:26:21 <caveman> i don't get you.
15:26:40 <caveman> if you don't mind people knowing your ip address, then why don't you use a free vpn, such as protonvpn?
15:26:59 <monerobull[m]1> How do you think free VPNs pay for their servers
15:27:33 <caveman> some of them sell your data.  sure.  but how do you know that your vps provider is not selling your data either?
15:28:13 <monerobull[m]1> I can't but I trust mullvad since they haven't made any fuckups yet
15:28:49 <monerobull[m]1> My point is, it's basically impossible to get all countries to agree on something 
15:29:25 <nioc> I might just go back to using shells
15:29:35 <monerobull[m]1> With crypto you can pay anyone, anywhere
15:29:46 <caveman> monerobull[m]1: i'd argue that trusting is bad to begin with.  we can do it without having to trust anyone.
15:29:59 <monerobull[m]1> VPNs without trust?
15:30:16 <caveman> no.  a different network structure (not internet) that can opera with zero trust.
15:30:19 <Mochi101> caveman, how are you sorting out domain name resolution?
15:30:42 <Mochi101> We need to go back to smoke signals...
15:30:54 <Mochi101> We can trust the wind.
15:31:01 <caveman> smoke signals are bad.  governments can see the sources, and ambush the smoke points.
15:31:01 <monerobull[m]1> Can you
15:31:09 <nioc> monerobull[m]1: some people used big rocks in the ocean, no need to actually have access to them  :)
15:31:14 <monerobull[m]1> What about government drones interfering with your smoke signals 
15:31:39 <Mochi101> Damn, my plan had been foiled by THEM, again.
15:31:50 <caveman> the solution is really to adopt store-and-forward.  i.e. delay tolerant mobile ad-hoc networks.
15:31:58 * Siren[m] uploaded an image: (132KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/koJuBBUQLZmmhlCUmjrHRDDm/PXL_20221224_151044868.MP_20221224173126.jpg >
15:32:16 <nioc> thx Siren[m] <3
15:32:29 <Mochi101> telekinesis is the solution
15:32:35 <monerobull[m]1> What is the guy in underpants doing?
15:32:56 <Mochi101> he has a burrito and a coca cola
15:33:01 <Siren[m]> Eating kebab drinking coke
15:33:06 <Siren[m]> Yes
15:33:15 <Mochi101> It's a burrito.
15:33:39 * Stnby[m] uploaded an image: (106KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/JrvTTmbiMoYcuollZrFPtlhi/PXL_20221224_152840771.MP.jpg >
15:33:47 <Siren[m]> ...
15:33:53 <monerobull[m]1> Siren[m]: Lmao
15:33:53 <Mochi101> You're not cultural appropriating are you Siren[m] ?
15:34:16 <Siren[m]> It's döner kebab
15:34:24 <Siren[m]> Halal
15:34:26 <Stnby[m]> But what about Monero?
15:34:37 <Stnby[m]> Is the kebab dude more interesting?
15:34:49 <Mochi101> We talk about Monero every day.
15:35:11 <Mochi101> Today is the day for crazy cookies.
15:35:23 <Siren[m]> Ginger crack man
15:36:13 <xfedex[m]> Siren[m]: Are these grey things metal marbles?
15:36:24 <monerobull[m]1> Stnby[m]: This guy making crack ginger people. That is way more interesting right now
15:36:41 <Stnby[m]> xfedex[m]: No its shiny cake decorations
15:36:45 <Mochi101> Siren[m], no shisha ginger crack men?
15:36:47 <nioc> top right tree #1
15:37:24 <Mochi101> If you're going to go doner, might as well go shisha
15:37:53 <Siren[m]> We ended up going with a bong instead
15:38:11 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: This was supposed to be mountain dew and straw
15:38:15 <Mochi101> pics or it didn't happen
15:38:21 <Siren[m]> Now it's bong
15:38:56 <Mochi101> Siren[m], what if they make drugs illegal though? ping caveman 
15:39:17 <Siren[m]> It is illegal here
15:39:24 <Stnby[m]> We tried to make tux as well, but it turned into a patric start from spongebob
15:39:37 <Siren[m]> But not illegal in the ginger crack men universe
15:39:58 <sophia`> where do you get your monero?
15:39:59 <Siren[m]> >useless channel. too high noise.
15:40:01 <Siren[m]> Lmaoooo
15:40:04 <Mochi101> Siren[m], gingerbread men, monero, weed... I'm thinking Deutschland.
15:40:22 <Siren[m]> Lithuania
15:40:38 <Mochi101> Oh, you're in Russia?
15:40:40 <Mochi101> wow
15:41:31 <Stnby[m]> Ill spend all my momneros on a plane ticket and a 3d printer so I can print guns the next time you repeat this sentence
15:41:37 <Mochi101> What, was that a bad joke?
15:41:39 <Mochi101> :D
15:41:46 <Siren[m]> Nerf gun***
15:42:08 <Siren[m]> With soft foam nerf bullets***
15:42:28 <Stnby[m]> anthrax filled tho
16:49:10 <george[m]1> greetings, what happens when NSA will crack Monero using a Quantum computer? why there isn't much talk about that? I heard pirate chain / ARR already has PQ crypto by using zkSNARKs but I don't know much about them. Just curious.
16:52:44 <isthmus> The theoretical relationship between Monero's extant cryptographic mechanisms and quantum computing enabled algorithms (e.g. Shor's & Grover's) has been extensively studied
16:52:44 <isthmus> Results can be found here https://github.com/insight-decentralized-consensus-lab/post-quantum-monero
16:53:11 <isthmus> If you want to go deep down the rabbit hole, check out https://github.com/insight-decentralized-consensus-lab/post-quantum-monero/blob/master/writeups/technical_note.pdf
17:02:40 <fr33_yourself[m]> <caveman> "however, unfortunately, i'm also..." <- The solution: First, understand that crypto-currencies can't handle all financial transactions due to blockchain size limitations. Gold and Silver or paper dollars are necessary for in person commerce even in a world where everyone has crypto-currency. An easy way to think of Monero is the counter-economic chain, for libertarians, privacy advocates and criminals. Secondly, get a
17:02:40 <fr33_yourself[m]> passport and be prepared to travel internationally if the government somehow manages to enforce a complete ban on Monero in your country. Even if they do you will still be able to use Monero over Tor or I2p and connect to nodes hosted abroad over those networks. So they have to kill Tor and I2p too. Other than that own some gold, silver and weapons. Hold your cash don't leave it on bank ledgers that sell your data.
17:04:31 <Stnby[m]> <wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]> "greetings, what happens when NSA..." <- The only thing that NSA can crack is their own ego. Seraphis should help with post-quantum mitigation
17:04:33 <george[m]1> Migration cannot begin after practical quantum computers have arrived; the ledger is only meaningful if
17:04:33 <george[m]1> the migration is completed before a quantum adversary enters the scene. We urge the Monero community to begin considering migration to a post-quantum secure key infrastructure and transaction protocol at some future date. ^ i think it all starts, with having enough money to pay devs to work on this, because I haven't seen many devs trying to improve / fork Monero, just make their own alternative coins ...
17:04:53 <george[m]1> s/make/making/
17:06:28 <fr33_yourself[m]> <caveman> "not that hypothetical at all..." <- I too have thought of these extreme adversary environments you have described. I agree that the probability of the US feds going hyper adversary is higher than most people in this channel think. However, if you can get out of the US before the totalitarian crackdown happens, you will be able to use your Monero elsewhere. Third world governments are too broke and incompetent to police the
17:06:28 <fr33_yourself[m]> internet like the US feds can.
17:08:10 <rbrunner> george[m]1: "We urge the Monero community" Who is we?
17:08:29 <george[m]1> i happen to live in Romania and there is plenty of police here too, perhaps somewhat less surveillance, and yet the jury is out whether Romania is 3rd world or not, certainly richer than the Central African Republic, or Jamaica countries who have laxer crypto laws ...
17:08:52 <fr33_yourself[m]> <monerobull[m]1> "Not every country will ban..." <- This is the true point. And even if they do if you move out of the Slave States of America to a unbanked country where everyone uses cash and the beaches are good and girls in tiny bikinis then you've won its checkmate the feds can't do shit. Even if they revoke  your passport just hide out there foreever and you win.
17:09:31 <fr33_yourself[m]> wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]: You live in the same country as TopG andrew tate mad respect
17:09:46 <fr33_yourself[m]> Surely the Romanian feds aren't sophisticated techwise.
17:09:56 <george[m]1> rbrunner: Evaluating cryptocurrency security and privacy in a post-quantum world - Adam Corbo∗ , Mitchell “Isthmus” Krawiec-Thayer†, Brandon G Goodell‡ - Insight & Monero Research Lab - September 2020
17:10:08 <fr33_yourself[m]> I could be wrong though, but if they are the solution is easy. Move to an even poorer country where the feds are even dumber.
17:11:31 <george[m]1> > <@fr33_yourself[m]:libera.chat> > <@wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]:libera.chat> i happen to live in Romania and there is plenty of police here too, perhaps somewhat less surveillance, and yet the jury is out whether Romania is 3rd world or not, certainly richer than the Central African Republic, or Jamaica countries who have laxer crypto laws ...
17:11:31 <george[m]1> > 
17:11:31 <george[m]1> > You live in the same country as TopG andrew tate mad respect
17:11:31 <george[m]1> haha, I just happened to be born here mate, it's not as poor as some detractors say, but recently, in the past 5-10 years more CCTV cameras have appeared and the SRI - the domestic feds have gotten bigger budgets, almost YoY
17:12:03 <nioc> I live where regulations make it so you can't buy or sell monero through regulated means  
17:12:05 <nioc> I have no problem using monero
17:12:33 <george[m]1> fr33_yourself[m]: the problem is with learning a new language, and accepting an even worse infrastructure, perhaps even tropical diseases and worse prisons (if I happen to get imprisoned in a true 3rd world country)
17:12:34 <nioc> or buying or selling it
17:12:49 <george[m]1> * worse prisons than Romania (if I
17:13:14 <fr33_yourself[m]> <caveman> "the war against fiat will be..." <- This is true, but some government's are broke, stupid and incompetent. In the United States your slave owners have a team of highly sophisticated tech nerds that send out armed agents to collect you. Abroad your adversary is effectively a primate with an AK47. Choose which one you'd rather evade.
17:14:16 <george[m]1> nioc:  interesting, the biggest problem is in cashing out to fiat. That said, Crypto can be traded without ever cashing out, the biggest risk is sending to the wrong address, without a test transaction, or losing your hardware wallet -
17:14:33 <fr33_yourself[m]> nioc: And what country is this? I'm just curious to know of a country that has completely restricted "regulated" use of Monero. Also, how do you enter and exit Monero? Local Monero cash trades presumably?
17:15:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]:libera.chat> > <@fr33_yourself[m]:libera.chat> I could be wrong though, but if they are the solution is easy. Move to an even poorer country where the feds are even dumber.
17:15:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> > 
17:15:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> > the problem is with learning a new language, and accepting an even worse infrastructure, perhaps even tropical diseases and worse prisons (if I happen to get imprisoned in a true 3rd world country)
17:15:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> Mate, most of these third world countries don't give a fuck what you do as long as you don't make too big of a ruckus.
17:15:43 <george[m]1> local cash trades carry a big commission right? but it depends on seller
17:16:08 <fr33_yourself[m]> The Slave States of America have the most liquid cash market for Monero. I'm jealous frankly
17:16:38 <fr33_yourself[m]> Yes, but the spread is tight in the US. You can buy Monero anonymously just above spot price and sell for about 6% below spot for cash by mail.
17:16:40 <george[m]1> the problem is then, becoming independently wealthy from a 1st world / richer country to live for a few years in a poorer country. But where? Jamaica? i heard the Central African Republic is risky 
17:16:47 <fr33_yourself[m]> It's not that big of a spread
17:17:24 <fr33_yourself[m]> wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]: I would suggest Latin America or Thailand or Indonesia
17:17:27 <nioc> New York, and I'm not leaving and leaving family behind   
17:17:30 <nioc> There are ways to cash out to my bank account and pay taxes if I have made a profit
17:17:53 <fr33_yourself[m]> I would say Sri Lanka, but their economy and society is more depraved and unstable than Latin American one's
17:18:32 <fr33_yourself[m]> nioc: You probably just use Local Monero to cash out though right?
17:18:40 <george[m]1> Thailand has had protests, Indonesia is muslim, not sure about Latin America ... it's still about getting richer in Romania / a richer country before departing for LATAM or something
17:19:30 <nioc> I think Indonesia recently outlawed pre-marital sex  :D 
17:20:08 <george[m]1> nioc: in Romania the CG Tax is 10% on all profits, if the profit was above some ~600 $ per year.
17:20:55 <fr33_yourself[m]> wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]: Yeah that's the hard part. I'm not rich and wish I could be like TopG, but once you become a public figure like him you are fucked. So many eyes on you all the time it's crazy. If you never filed taxes and become famous the feds will come for you for sure. Just like they did for John McAfee.
17:21:03 <george[m]1> what do you think of a CGT like Romania has? 10% on the profits legally? the government still stifles you, which is sad. Singapore doesn't have VAT or something, but Singapore is authoritarian too.
17:21:08 <nioc> US federal long term capital gains is 0% up to $400k
17:21:26 <nioc> states vary quite a bit
17:21:44 <george[m]1> do you think it's worth it for a Romanian to try to get US citizenship or residency at least? despite the fucked up healthcare and news coming from USA?
17:21:50 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]:libera.chat> > <@nioc:libera.chat> There are ways to cash out to my bank account and pay taxes if I have made a profit
17:21:50 <fr33_yourself[m]> > 
17:21:50 <fr33_yourself[m]> > in Romania the CG Tax is 10% on all profits, if the profit was above some ~600 $ per year.
17:21:50 <fr33_yourself[m]> I don't trade stocks because in America it's risky to evade taxes on capital gains, because all the trading platforms record everything and send the data to the slave masters.
17:21:55 <nioc> **** up to $40k
17:22:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]: NO absolutely not
17:22:19 <Mochi101> george[m]1, which news specifically?
17:22:34 <fr33_yourself[m]> nioc: I can guarantee you by the end of this decade long term capital gains will be at least 5% for this tax bracket
17:22:54 <Mochi101> How can people even think that "free healthcare" exists or is a right?
17:23:16 <nioc> well free health care is not free
17:23:24 <Mochi101> exactly
17:23:33 <george[m]1> i'm not sure Mochi101  there are a lot of racists, even if i'm white, not a Romani minority, and the US residency / citizenship process is quite complicated for all foreigners 
17:23:39 <fr33_yourself[m]> DUde news dropped today that they have officially hired 87,000 new IRS employees and will be using 80 billion dollars signed in during the infrastructure bill to finance their salaries and operations
17:23:44 <fr33_yourself[m]> THat is fucked up
17:24:32 <fr33_yourself[m]> Mochi101: Lol i know right. I have family that work in the healthcare sector so it's hilarious to think healthcare is a god given right when hospitals didn't even exist before the Colonists set foot in the america's lmao clown world
17:24:43 <george[m]1> Mochi101: there are plenty of countries in Europe with a ~ subsidized ~ healthcare system where you only pay national insurance ~ in some like Italy or Denmark it's universal, without government mandated insurance ~
17:24:44 <nioc> Mochi101: I am old so I truly get free health care, only costs me $450 a month  :D
17:25:05 <fr33_yourself[m]> haha
17:25:17 <fr33_yourself[m]> OOf god bleess you Nioc I wouldn't want to live in New York city
17:25:24 <fr33_yourself[m]> sorry New york state
17:25:33 <Mochi101> george[m]1, so the health care workers are working for free?
17:26:12 <george[m]1> no they aren't, but they're paid by the government, from all kinds of taxes, including the national health insurance fee ... you can see on Wikipedia - list of countries by tax rates
17:26:27 <Mochi101> Free healthcare insurance doesn't exist anywhere, you are paying for it through taxation.
17:26:40 <fr33_yourself[m]> <monerobull[m]1> "How do you think free VPNs pay..." <- Haha you got him here :)
17:27:03 <george[m]1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates i know, but most Romanians don't care about being taxed for healthcare 
17:27:54 <george[m]1> i mean, most Romanians are oblivious to the taxes they are paying
17:28:13 <Mochi101> george[m]1, and if you're poor enough that you don't have to pay anything for healthcare it's still not free. It's paid for by other people who make more money and are forced to have their wealth redistributed to those that the government think is more deserving.
17:28:49 <Mochi101> Which is slavery.
17:29:21 <Mochi101> Indirect slavery, but still slavery.
17:29:27 <nioc> Mochi101: today I learned that if I pay my inlaws medical care it is tax deductible 
17:29:27 <george[m]1> this is why i support the right to die Mochi101  Belgium, Netherlands, and to an extent Switzerland have legalized that. This way, I could too die if I wanted to, too bad mental health only patients, are usually refused even in Belgium / Netherlands.
17:29:47 <Mochi101> george[m]1, move to Canada.
17:29:51 <george[m]1> s/too//
17:30:13 <fr33_yourself[m]> <wernicke1korsakoff1syndrome[m]> "greetings, what happens when NSA..." <- It's not a big deal. The big deal is that they can inflate Monero not reveal true spends. I think we are still far off from this, but yes post-quantum cryptography for Monero is a serious improvement that will take bright minds and big funding to complete IMO. Not sure if enough funds could be sourced for that right now in this bear market.
17:30:28 <Mochi101> As far as I know Canada now has same day suicides if you request it.
17:31:02 <Mochi101> You can even request it for "never being able to get out of poverty".
17:31:34 <george[m]1> not sure. Canada delays right to physician-assisted death for mentally ill people https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/18/canada-medically-assisted-death-delay
17:32:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> All the Chads are here in the chat today. I'm liking the conversation topics. Finally some interesting practical discussion rather than the same old bullshit.
17:33:04 <fr33_yourself[m]> I was listening to a video describing the new IRS agents and implications of this coming into affect and I thought to myself, "So bullish for Monero :)"
18:01:42 <monerobull[m]1> Merry Christmas everyone
18:01:53 <fr33_yourself[m]> Merry Christmas
18:02:56 <Stnby[m]> monerobull[m]1: Are you celebrating christmas in East Asia?
18:03:10 <Stnby[m]> I thought its still eve in Europe :D
18:04:34 <monerobull[m]1> I think 25th is an American thing
18:22:24 <george[m]1> <monerobull[m]1> "I think 25th is an American..." <- in Romania it's also on the 25th but the holiday food can begin anytime you have money haha (not hungry now though)
18:56:26 <Stnby[m]> <george[m]1> "in Romania it's also on the 25th..." <- Every day is like a holiday
19:11:04 <uncle_rae> hello Randolf :)
19:31:22 <Randolf> Hello uncle_rae.  :)
20:04:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> 😒
21:43:01 <DanIsnotthemanBr> question does any from local monero project float around here?
21:43:11 <DanIsnotthemanBr> there widget will have an issue soon
22:32:45 <Mochi101> DanIsnotthemanBr, they are really active on r/localmonero
22:32:52 <plowsof11> Dan (Is not the man & Braxman Tomsparks Advocate): https://matrix.to/#/#localmonero--agoradesk-official-matrix-space:agoradesk.com