00:25:15 <great_taste> 0% fee 100% scam
02:04:01 * stonne[m] uploaded an image: (101KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/QGYZuuSiXvoZQxdrlATWkgVX/IMG_20221225_205715_794.jpg >
02:04:01 <stonne[m]> Quem queria presente em Monero… sorteio pra galera. Pagamento em XMR.
02:04:01 <stonne[m]> https://instagram.com/p/CmnG1g8N5Vf/
02:05:55 <stonne[m]> #monerobrasilsemban:monero.social 
10:34:30 <narodnik> gm
17:31:24 <soderzhanie[m]> Here?
17:33:19 <soderzhanie[m]> I see. The community just rejects the ideas :) monero has a "big" future
17:35:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Entitled much?
17:35:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ideas are just ideas until someone does the work. If youre volunteering, the GitHub is open for PRs
17:35:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dev meetings are open for POC
17:35:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> MRL is open for research 
17:39:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Problems can be heard a million times. If you bring problems, bring solutions or bring ideas that will lead to and actionable solutions.
17:41:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
17:44:08 <monerobull[m]1> I'm not sure what your guys are discussing but i propose a ccs to fix 10 block locktime. 500 xmr upfront for research
17:47:07 <soderzhanie[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Problems can be heard a million..." <- I already said:
17:47:07 <soderzhanie[m]> I2P only mode for block synchronization
17:47:07 <soderzhanie[m]> Community nodes in i2p to protect against Sybil
17:47:07 <soderzhanie[m]> Creating a public blacklist b32
17:47:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull[m]1: Research?
17:48:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its an arbitrary number based on reorgs 
17:48:25 <monerobull[m]1> I'm making a joke on limited context about people proposing ideas and nothing more
17:48:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> We havent deeper than 3 in years
17:49:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> r/woosh
17:49:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> > <@soderzhanie:matrix.org> I already said:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/9465c9392b66c4611586e03a7ec6e9e624abb00d>)
17:50:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> They dont. They would be isolated to nodes who are I2p + clearnet
17:50:19 <soderzhanie[m]> Yes
17:50:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Terrible idea
17:50:38 <soderzhanie[m]> And what's the problem?
17:50:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> There are like 15 I2p nodes on the entire network 
17:51:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Probably overstating that number as well
17:51:40 <soderzhanie[m]> And what's the point of creating them if it doesn't help anonymity much now?)
17:51:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its either all the way in or not at all. And do you want monero to be reliant on I2p development?
17:52:04 <monerobull[m]1> "let's take this totally isolated second internet layer and put our Blockchain on it that always needs to be synchronized with the rest of the network*
17:52:28 <monerobull[m]1> s/*/"/
17:52:28 <soderzhanie[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: 30
17:52:29 <soderzhanie[m]> Or more
17:52:48 <monerobull[m]1> And ~15k on clearnet no?
17:53:21 <monerobull[m]1> If monerod traffic gets banned, I'd say P2P traffic in general would be banned
17:54:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Also, tor and I2p arent stable enough or have lowbenoygh latency to support our blockchain full time
17:54:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Imagine adding 15k nodes traffic to I2p or tor 
17:54:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Under ddos" its probably just people running nodes 
17:55:03 <soderzhanie[m]> I2p can hide monero traffic in its encryption
17:55:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> And can I2p handle terabytes per node per week?
17:56:27 <soderzhanie[m]> monerobull[m]1: It's one thing to ban in Chinese. And another thing is when they do not prohibit but monitor the activity)))
17:57:21 <soderzhanie[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Yes
17:57:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lol
17:57:38 <soderzhanie[m]> In i2p 70k nodes
17:57:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> At 800kbps lol dont make me laugh 
17:58:25 <soderzhanie[m]> Bitcoin core add support only i2p, but monero no
17:58:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bitcoin didnt add confidential transactions 
17:59:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> And they added segwit and a fixed block size 
17:59:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> They do all sorts of questionable things that dont have longevity in mind 
17:59:29 <kurisu> i2p unlike tor by design advertises your participation in the network, doesn't have bridges, has many fewer users, and lower speeds. So why is it that the monero crowd is more inclined towards i2p?
17:59:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> We arent 
18:00:35 <soderzhanie[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Bitcoin core solved this problem by creating separate tunnels for each connection)
18:00:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Some people are, like phophet 
18:02:23 <soderzhanie[m]> kurisu: There are more nodes in i2p than in thor, you don't know much about it
18:03:16 <soderzhanie[m]> * There are more nodes in i2p than in tor, you don't know much about it
18:05:42 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], I said users, not nodes. What info I can find states it has 30K users dialy. Tor has more than that from US alone. 
18:06:10 <soderzhanie[m]> Do you know where I came from? From the i2p development conference. And they are now discussing the reaction of the network to the bitcoin update. Yes, there are negative phenomena, however, do you think that if the network has coped with bitcoin, then it will not cope with monero?
18:07:11 <soderzhanie[m]> Name the number of the torus, if you know it)
18:07:18 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], also please tell me if you  have any idea how come most i2p advocates are Russians, most alive sites you see on i2p are Russian, i2pd is developed by Russians, etc. Also I've been told by my Russian friends i2pd is an FSB project.
18:07:49 <kurisu> https://metrics.torproject.org/userstats-relay-table.html vs https://i2p-metrics.np-tokumei.net/network-size
18:08:33 <soderzhanie[m]> I2Pd developers live in Canada)
18:08:57 <kurisu> They are Russians though. 
18:09:23 <soderzhanie[m]> Half of the users of the tor are also Russian. Doesn't that bother you?)
18:10:58 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], that link I provided states only 4% of tor users are from Russia. Please tell me where you got your statistics from. Please reply, otherwise this will be seen as the usual propaganda technique of just lie and don't even bother proving, because at least some will believe without checking.
18:13:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bitcoin network traffic is fake / manipulated 
18:14:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Show me actual Bitcoin I2p traffic numbers 
18:14:37 <soderzhanie[m]> Evaluate the attendance of illegal services and you will understand everything yourself. According to your statistics, how should tor users from Russia be shown if it is banned there and it is used in conjunction with VPN?))
18:14:37 <kurisu> Just a heads up for all: i2pd introduced an encryption algorithm approved by FSB (GOST). Which itself is harmless, but kinda raises questions why they'd do that.
18:15:55 <sech1> the only difference between AES and GOST is AES has NSA's backdoors and GOST has FSB's backdoors
18:16:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2nd what sech said ^^
18:16:32 <soderzhanie[m]> If you do not trust the Russian-speaking i2pd, then use the java version from the USA)))
18:17:05 <kurisu> still, why the extra effort for GOST. Along with GOSTcoin. Seems like they have sympathy for the Russian gov
18:17:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not about trust 
18:17:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its about dependence. Does monero want to depend on i2p?
18:18:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> vs tor, vs another option? 
18:19:19 <kurisu> Why even the need for tor etc, given that I've been told here a remote node I connect to through clearnet cannot see my transactions anyway?
18:19:40 <soderzhanie[m]> kurisu: The source code is open. Why don't you test it for vulnerability?) why did the Monero community try to develop a version of Monero on the FSB version?) perhaps they also work for the FSB?
18:20:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who did what now?
18:21:16 <soderzhanie[m]> kurisu: Then so that the provider does not know that you are using monero
18:21:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Do you understand that monero is not a corporation and we dont "do" things collectively 
18:21:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> The kovri initiative was what, one developer? 
18:22:21 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], you have failed to provide statistics for your claim of "half tor users are Russians too" -> failed the propaganda test. I won't even bother verifying your new claim about Monero, whatever it is even supposed to mean.  I advise others to ignore the guy. 
18:23:28 <soderzhanie[m]> Okay, look at the statistics of the tor earlier in 2018
18:23:39 <soderzhanie[m]> Russia in top-3
18:24:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> soderzhanie[m]: You can make tx without the provider knowing by using I2p and tor 
18:25:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Syncing the node obviously has glaring attack surfaces
18:25:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Over clearnet *
18:28:21 * soderzhanie[m] uploaded an image: (9KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/XgpruzcqORfBxFtbVhyfMfPN/Screenshot_20221227-002744_Conversations-I2P.png >
18:28:29 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "There are like 15 I2p nodes on..." <- How many tor nodes do you think there are
18:28:42 <soderzhanie[m]> kurisu: only for you
18:29:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Onion rpc, like 30
18:30:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> --proxy, probably less because its not a well known feature
18:30:32 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], this befoonery proves nothing, means nothing.
18:30:41 <fr33_yourself[m]> <monerobull[m]1> ""let's take this totally..." <- This statement makes clear the issues associated with enabling full i2p nodes
18:30:49 <fr33_yourself[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: what is the difference between those two?
18:31:09 <fr33_yourself[m]> <monerobull[m]1> "And ~15k on clearnet no?" <- I'm pretty sure there are only 1950 clear net nodes last time I checked on a site called monero hash
18:32:06 <fr33_yourself[m]> <monerobull[m]1> "If monerod traffic gets banned..." <- This is false. The feds could much easier sanction all monero nodes than they could all P2P traffic
18:32:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: that id far from the number monero.fail/map is more accurate 
18:32:54 <fr33_yourself[m]> The US government has enough financial resources to assassinate every single clear net node runner if they really wanted to. 
18:34:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: --proxy sends all traffic in the clear but over exit nodes😃 though it disables incoming connections as a consequence 
18:35:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: and how is that different from onion rpc?
18:35:10 <fr33_yourself[m]> What are the implications of disabling incoming conections
18:35:43 <fr33_yourself[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: ok, thanks for referrring me here. Why is there such a large disparity between monero hash and monero fail?
18:36:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hash pulls numbers from their node(s)
18:36:50 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Also, tor and I2p arent stable..." <- This is also true
18:37:18 <fr33_yourself[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: gotcha, so basically they only see a small portion of the total clear net nodes as opposed to monero.fail
18:37:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Iirc monero.fail collects lists of ips/nodes by comparing peer lists of each node
18:37:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not just its own node 
18:37:47 <fr33_yourself[m]> I see
18:37:52 <fr33_yourself[m]> So it is likely more accurate
18:38:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Definitely 
18:38:06 <fr33_yourself[m]> Does anyone know who is the creator/operator of monero.fail
18:38:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> There was a paper that showed exstcly that. Also that 10% of nodes made up 90% of traffic (not those exact numbers)
18:38:39 <fr33_yourself[m]> Well it's reassuring then, because aren't there only about 15-20k btc clear net nodes? Haven't we also caught up to them?
18:39:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> The majority of nodes have less then 100 connections. Some have 1000+ and are serving the majority of the network
18:39:19 <fr33_yourself[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: What are the implications of 10% of nodes making up 90% of the traffic?
18:39:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> The seed nodes were easy to find, but also another node that wasnt a seed node thatvhad similar traffic 
18:39:33 <fr33_yourself[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: ah ok
18:40:23 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "And can I2p handle terabytes per..." <- good question. answer is probably no.
18:40:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> The biggest implication is if those nodes go down, or are malicious 
18:40:43 <alpharabius[m]> Hallo
18:40:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hey alpha 
18:40:58 <alpharabius[m]> Does anyone know how to convert prepaid to xmr
18:41:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Prepaid what
18:41:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Visa?
18:41:14 <alpharabius[m]> Prepaid amex
18:41:24 <Katie[m]> alpharabius[m]: https://localmonero.com
18:41:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Perhaps monero.com accepts amex
18:41:34 <alpharabius[m]> I don't see any on localmonero
18:41:37 <fr33_yourself[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Ah the largest concern of the paper is that if the few monero nodes that have the most connections go haywire or adversarial then xmr project go boom boom and to zero? or would it not be that earthshattering of a scenario?
18:41:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> With kyc of course 
18:41:57 <Katie[m]> alpharabius[m]: r/giftcardexchange
18:42:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> alpharabius[m]: Pro you are giving some scammy vibes
18:42:10 <Katie[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: This
18:42:14 <fr33_yourself[m]> NOt saying for sure you are a scammer
18:42:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Free yourself, lmfaoooooo
18:42:40 <fr33_yourself[m]> but you were asking about buying gold or silver with xmr in a different channel ac ouple of days ago and i don't think you ever did, maybe you did though
18:42:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof:  🤣🤣🤣
18:42:50 <alpharabius[m]> I got it from my olders bruzzer
18:42:58 <alpharabius[m]> s/olders/older/
18:43:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Alpha, youre too funny 
18:43:11 <fr33_yourself[m]> and the spreads are actually tight on gold or silver for xmr from opticbit too
18:43:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry for the community kick
18:43:35 <fr33_yourself[m]> Pretty sure it's about the same or slightly cheaper to trade monero for silver than it is to trade monero for cash by mail
18:43:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> But begging, cmon man. Do better
18:44:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/,/?/
18:45:34 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "They do all sorts of questionabl..." <- 100% straight facts right here
18:46:59 <fr33_yourself[m]> <kurisu> "i2p unlike tor by design..." <- Because King Desnake the #1 monero entrepreneur has based his business in i2p. BAsically dark net activity is moving out of tor due to recent DDos attacks
18:47:04 <alpharabius[m]> Yo i forgot abt the bitcoin atm i have next to my house
18:47:34 <alpharabius[m]> If i'm not able to sell it online i'll use the atm
18:47:46 <kurisu> "King Desnake the #1 monero entrepreneur" - who
18:48:31 <alpharabius[m]> i2p seems more private than tor
18:48:54 <alpharabius[m]> Cuz with i2p everyone is a router but with tor you have to becone a router
18:49:05 <fr33_yourself[m]> <soderzhanie[m]> "Do you know where I came from..." <- I agree that perhaps I2P can handle Monero now, but if tx's per day go up to equal or surpass bitcoin I'm not sure it would be able to
18:49:10 <soderzhanie[m]> kurisu 
18:49:10 <soderzhanie[m]> Do you look at statistics Russian Tor users earlier 2018?
18:49:24 <fr33_yourself[m]> kurisu: Oi are you throwing shade on user desnake
18:49:29 <fr33_yourself[m]> the kIng of AlphaBAy
18:49:38 <fr33_yourself[m]> The successor to Ross Ulbrichtf
18:49:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> AlphaRaybay
18:50:04 <alpharabius[m]> So many rich ppl who own darknet markets
18:50:13 <alpharabius[m]> That gives me an idea
18:50:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Let me guess. You need $20 to make it happen
18:50:47 <fr33_yourself[m]> <kurisu> "卩尺ㄖ卩卄乇ㄒ, also please tell me..." <- It might be a russian based project, but this alone should not be used as criticism against the project
18:51:01 <alpharabius[m]> alpharabius[m]: Darknet based xmr market that's not just for drugs
18:51:11 <fr33_yourself[m]> Lol that will never take off
18:51:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> OMG, gelius
18:51:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Every heard of alphabay
18:51:28 <fr33_yourself[m]> if anything just make a clearnet market with lower fees than moneromarket.io
18:51:50 <fr33_yourself[m]> Yeah alphabay lists other goods, but is almost exclusively used for drugs, then hacked accounts and carding secondly
18:52:02 <alpharabius[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I got like 70 bucks rn
18:52:02 <alpharabius[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: With darknet support
18:52:02 <alpharabius[m]> alpharabius[m]: And no js
18:52:29 <fr33_yourself[m]> Yes desnake is a beast, but good luck financing and maintianing  a project like Alphabay without getting caught and shutdown by the loser beta class of humans known as the feds
18:52:51 <fr33_yourself[m]> alpharabius[m]: Why? It's completely unnecessary
18:52:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> alpharabius[m]: So you need 30? 
18:53:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cmon, see your hand out. Just beg already
18:53:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> I prefer my beggars on their knees though. I dont prefer men, but ill take what I can get
18:54:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> #fightingwords 😂
18:54:13 <alpharabius[m]> 💀
18:54:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> <kurisu> "卩尺ㄖ卩卄乇ㄒ, that link I provided..." <- your anti-russian bias is stupid though, you just look like an idiot right now
18:54:23 <alpharabius[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I mean if you say soo....
18:55:20 <kurisu> " It might be a russian based project, but this alone should not be used as criticism against the project" - the sympathy for GOST would. 
18:56:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> <soderzhanie[m]> "Evaluate the attendance of..." <- Do you live in Russia? If so is Tor actually banned there? Is it actually enforced? Meaning people have been expropriated or arrested for simply using Tor? If so then how do people running Monero nodes over the clearnet in Russia avoid expropriation or arrest?
18:56:19 <fr33_yourself[m]> kurisu: Not sure what is G OST
18:56:27 <fr33_yourself[m]> What is that?
18:57:02 <kurisu> FSB approved encryption standard so adored by i2pd devs the included it in their router and based a coin on it.
18:57:13 <kurisu> gostcoin
18:57:17 <fr33_yourself[m]> <kurisu> "Just a heads up for all: i2pd..." <- Ahhhh I see now that i have backread
18:57:46 <fr33_yourself[m]> Woah so john mcafees ghost coin is now the I2pd coin?
18:57:50 <fr33_yourself[m]> or different ghost coins
18:57:55 <fr33_yourself[m]> all are failed scams anyway lol
18:58:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> what if one day Monero fails and everyone calls it a failed scam coin. I will cry
18:59:50 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Its about dependence. Does..." <- No por favor
18:59:59 <fr33_yourself[m]> <kurisu> "Why even the need for tor etc..." <- They know your IP address though and the time you connected to them. Metadata
19:00:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> <alpharabius[m]> "I mean if you say soo...." <- You never want that community ban to end, do you?
19:00:16 <soderzhanie[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: Tor in Russia is banned programmatically. They don't put you in jail for it, but it's extremely difficult to use it. Traffic is easily recognized
19:00:38 <alpharabius[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I was joking ofc
19:01:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id have sent it if you were less scummy about it
19:01:58 <kurisu> "They know your IP address though and the time you connected to them. Metadata" <- I don't think this warrants any integration beyond allowing the user to set a proxy. Builtin tor may perhaps be nice - but not necessary at all
19:01:59 <alpharabius[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: But like it's chrimis
19:02:31 <fr33_yourself[m]> <soderzhanie[m]> "Then so that the provider does..." <- He makes a valuable point. He is trying to prepare for the inevitable day that the agents of the state declare death penalty for all people caught using monero. And all ISP data is collected and analyzed by machine learning to profile if you are anti-government. This is necessary because the worldwide governemtns have massive debts they can't repay and will resort to totalitarian
19:02:31 <fr33_yourself[m]> expropriation, especially of rebellious individuals or people profiled to be such
19:03:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> soderzhanie[m]: Well what's the big huff if they don't do jack shit to you for using it? quit being a baby and find a way to use it
19:04:13 <soderzhanie[m]> I can use it, but why, if there are better means?
19:04:32 <fr33_yourself[m]> kurisu: and what is you don't want your ISP or VPN provider to know that you have ever used Monero, so that the agent smith's from the matrix never come to whack your booty like they did to JOhn mcafee
19:04:58 <kurisu> fr33_yourself[m], you set a proxy before connecting to it.
19:05:15 <soderzhanie[m]> The Tor is not anonymous, a third of the nodes are malicious, it is difficult to connect to it. What do I need it for?
19:05:36 <fr33_yourself[m]> soderzhanie[m]: I don't disagree with you that it would increase Monero's security if they could fully operate through and via Tor + I2p, but people smarter than me here have pointed out the technical challenges associated with doing so in the short run given current constraints
19:06:05 <fr33_yourself[m]> kurisu: I don't know what this means. What is a proxy. Sorry I am a tech noob
19:06:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> How is a proxy different from a VPN
19:06:24 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], nice dishonesty. I2p didn't so much as provide a standard browser last time I checked.
19:06:52 <fr33_yourself[m]> Oh i see you mean just only use Monero after conecting to Tor or I2p or VPN
19:07:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> But VPNs are a bad solution
19:07:02 <kurisu> fr33_yourself[m], VPN is systemwide and proxy is per app and requires app support.
19:07:19 <soderzhanie[m]> kurisu: You f***d up. What kind of proxy? A proxy is the use of another user's resources for himself. Maybe it's enough to use a million incomprehensible additions when you can make a tool that initially works anonymously?
19:07:29 <fr33_yourself[m]> and connecting to an onion node means someone on the other side of the world must be able to run an onion node without the feds whacking their booty
19:07:52 <fr33_yourself[m]> kurisu: You can do this for free using Monero software? 
19:08:07 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], like Torbrowser yes.
19:08:54 <soderzhanie[m]> kurisu: Loool, because DARPA dont give a money)))))
19:09:36 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], what are you even saying, I don't understand.  Please tell your curator to hire a better English speaker.
19:10:19 <fr33_yourself[m]> I think the logical conclusion of this argument is that having a version of Monerod that one could boot up over Tor without their ISP knowing at all, not even a byte, would be very nice and robust for network security. However it seems there are currently technical obstacles that prevent this total Tor node functionality from happening
19:10:37 <soderzhanie[m]> In fact, there is a browser, it's just that you were looking for it badly) oh, yes, it's from the FSB...
19:11:01 <kurisu> Browser that's hard to find = non standard. 
19:11:05 <fr33_yourself[m]> I agree with Prophet, but also am a simpleton who can't code hello world so I realize there are technical limitations
19:11:39 <fr33_yourself[m]> kurisu: Or am I wrong, and it's actually possible to run a node entirely within Tor without your ISP knowing you are running a Monero node?
19:11:46 <soderzhanie[m]> Tell the creator of silk Road about the anonymity of Tor
19:12:34 <fr33_yourself[m]> soderzhanie[m]: No, he made OPSEC mistakes
19:13:02 <kurisu> fr33_yourself[m], to my knowledge there's no proxy support builtin. You might be able to use proxychains although Im  not sure if thereare going to be leaks. Best solution would be to have monero devs introduce proxy support. 
19:13:16 <kurisu> ": No, he made OPSEC mistakes" <- doesn't matter to him he's a shill.
19:13:25 <fr33_yourself[m]> Prophet, your argumeent is incorrect and captain sosuke Desnake operated AB over Tor and has evaded law enforcement. How? Because he is big brain and doesn't make OPSEC mistakes
19:13:39 <soderzhanie[m]> Yes, of course, they found them later when they were covering their tracks
19:14:52 <fr33_yourself[m]> kurisu: I see. I'm pretty sure when I previously inquired about this, they said there were leaks to the clearnet, which could reveal one is running a Monero node within Tor. This isn't the end of the world but if a world wide tech savvy secret police are established and given 100's of millions of dollars to wipe out Monero, they might actually be able to do it.
19:15:36 <soderzhanie[m]> Proxy shit. Is there a proxy for each user? Isn't it easier to use a mutually beneficial network?
19:16:31 <fr33_yourself[m]> Prophet, surely you understand there are technical issues related to this work? I bet if you paid some of the smart devs to do what you want they would do it. But they have bigger fish to fry currently
19:17:14 <soderzhanie[m]> Monero is for the paranoid. I do not know what kurisu is doing here
19:17:22 <fr33_yourself[m]> I agree with you that Monero is too dependent on the clear net, but at the moment there isn't really a good short term solution to the problem unless you have lots of money to pay the devs to do the job
19:17:48 <fr33_yourself[m]> soderzhanie[m]: I agree, but I think most of the deverlopers agree with Kursis and ofxmr's points of view
19:18:05 <kurisu> soderzhanie[m], you know that both i2p and tor support a http/socks proxy interface. But you're shilling for monero to depend on i2p.
19:18:49 <soderzhanie[m]> Bitcoin could and monero can, everything else is fiction and excuses. Manifestation of unwillingness to work
19:19:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> kurisu: Your point being?
19:20:01 <kurisu> pricesely what I wrote.
19:20:38 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Syncing the node obviously has..." <- could you elaborate here? and presumably the adversary you are referring to is the ISP correct?
19:21:01 <soderzhanie[m]> kurisu: No, you're just stupid and don't understand the obvious things. Most users will not install a proxy. Most users, having installed a proxy, will not change it. At a time when tor/i2p will do it for you also by encrypting the data
19:21:11 <fr33_yourself[m]> soderzhanie[m]: Yeah, but it's unreasonable to expect them to work for free lol
19:21:52 <fr33_yourself[m]> soderzhanie[m]: I fall under his example. I don't even know how to install a proxy or what benefits it would incur?
19:23:29 <soderzhanie[m]> It is important for me to know the opinion of the community about this. Is it ideological or is it ready to make any update only for money?
19:24:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> Probably a mix of both
19:24:33 <kurisu> Nothing is ever developed for free beyond unusuable tiny cli utilities.
19:25:02 <soderzhanie[m]> You may not know how to install a proxy. But by adding i2p, it would be possible to simply specify usei2p=true in the config
19:25:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> Prophet, I understand your concerns, but Bitcoin even with I2p support is worse than Monero without it
19:25:10 <fr33_yourself[m]> Bitcoin is poo poo
19:25:33 <fr33_yourself[m]> soderzhanie[m]: Pretty sure something similar can be done with t
19:25:37 <fr33_yourself[m]> tor too
19:25:48 <fr33_yourself[m]> So if it can be done with tor too then what is the problem
19:41:42 <alpharabius[m]> What's the official majesticbank domain?
19:44:18 <fr33_yourself[m]> monero 11,200 nodes and btc is probably about 43,000 nodes. Not too shabby
19:44:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> still a ways to go
19:46:49 <Torr> fr33_yourself[m]: Gotta take into account how many of those are from asics farms.
19:48:10 <Torr> They become a central point of failure, and may be better counted as a unit.
19:53:06 <great_taste> I hear asic farms are going bankrupt
19:56:18 <Torr> Btc asics?
19:57:11 <MajesticBank> alpharabius[m]: https://majesticbank.sc/mirrors.txt 5 of them are in there
20:07:44 <MajesticBank> there are small delays in btc->xmr direction for big swaps, otherwise smaller amounts and other directions are processed at 0%