04:21:59 <Ormatio> hello?
04:24:12 <gingeropolous> hello
04:25:55 <Ormatio> Ahh there u are! nice to meet you
12:24:46 <llacqie[m]> <Ormatio> "hello?" <- https://www.nohello.com/
12:37:03 <NGP[m]> How can you receive monero from people you don't trust? (Eg, exchange company)
12:37:03 <NGP[m]> Is an alias address and removing it enough?
12:37:03 <NGP[m]> And how to pass received monero to an exchange? You can use *another* exchange and turn into something like nano, but that middle exchange knows your address 
12:37:03 <NGP[m]> Is there mechanism like aliases for sending monero? 
12:37:32 <NGP[m]> * Is there a mechanism like
12:38:41 <sech1> Use unique subaddress for each counterparty
12:39:13 <sech1> When you send Monero, receiver doesn't know who sent it - sender's address never appears on the blockchain
12:41:36 <NGP[m]> sech1: Thanks
12:41:36 <NGP[m]> So aliases are suitable for receiving? 
12:41:56 <sech1> They're called subaddresses in Monero
12:42:19 <sech1> use a new subaddress to receive Monero from each new sender
12:43:02 <NGP[m]> Some clients call it "aliases" (mymonero) 
12:43:02 <NGP[m]> Should you remove them after receiving? And does it have any effect on blockchain?
12:43:50 <NGP[m]> By "it", I mean removing subaddresses
12:47:00 <Rucknium[m]> NGP: Removing subaddresses from your wallet software has no effect on the blockchain. It just hides them from yourself. Probably so you don't accidentally re-use an address that you don't want to re-use.
12:49:39 <NGP[m]> Thanks.
12:51:15 <NGP[m]> Is there any exchange provider that works with giving source crypto and receiving another crypto without kyc or account?
12:52:01 <NGP[m]> Moneoju uses openshift.ai
12:52:16 <plowsof11> trocador.app aggregates alot of them 
12:53:14 <NGP[m]> NGP[m]: Wrong address...
12:59:29 <dANBs[m]> zhoska[xmpp]: are you look my message?
13:15:00 <merope> NGP the common practice is to use a different subaddress for each different entity you interact with. So you use subaddress A for the exchange, subaddr B for your buddy, subaddr C for another exchange, etc.
13:17:02 <dANBs[m]> zhoska[xmpp]: dANBs you look this message?
13:17:02 <merope> With the caveat that you have to be careful when spending outputs that you have received from multiple entities in the same transaction, as that could create some associations (watch "Breaking Monero" for a more detailed description of how that works)
13:17:06 <dANBs[m]> zhoska[xmpp]: oh
13:17:07 <dANBs[m]> zhoska[xmpp]: no
13:17:12 <dANBs[m]> zhoska[xmpp]: endor00
13:17:33 <merope> zhoska ?
13:17:51 <dANBs[m]> zhoska[xmpp]: what is chat in matrix?
13:18:09 <dANBs[m]> zhoska[xmpp]: Matrix id
13:18:49 <merope> #monero:monero.social
13:32:46 <NGP[m]> Cake wallet has mit license but forces a weird terms of use.
13:32:47 <NGP[m]> Is it legit? 
13:34:21 <NGP[m]> <merope> "With the caveat that you have to..." <- Thanks 
13:43:15 <Rucknium[m]> What is weird about Cake's terms of use?
14:03:01 <endogenic> https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/14/in_brief_security/
14:03:52 <NGP[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "What is weird about Cake's terms..." <- Well, most of it is declaiming warranty, but the part about source code and materials plus to the "allowed use case"
14:03:52 <NGP[m]> Doesn't't MIT license legally allow any sort of use case? 
14:03:52 <NGP[m]> Why should you choose it and then "override" a part of the license? 
14:11:57 <Rucknium[m]> I don't know open source law very well. I think the program compile by Cake (the app) is treated differently from the source code. You can probably avoid agreeing to the terms of use by compiling the code yourself. I'm not sure.
14:12:12 <Rucknium[m]> The terms of use say "You are also permitted to reproduce, distribute, modify, or create derivative works of, any of the code in our App, under the license conditions published with the accompanying code." https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/main/assets/text/Terms_of_Use.txt
14:14:34 <Siren[m]> > <@nimagp:matrix.org> Well, most of it is declaiming warranty, but the part about source code and materials plus to the "allowed use case"
14:14:34 <Siren[m]> > Doesn't't MIT license legally allow any sort of use case? 
14:14:34 <Siren[m]> > Why should you choose it and then "override" a part of the license? 
14:14:34 <Siren[m]> You can override existing licenses, or even came up with a completely new license.
14:14:40 <Siren[m]> s/came/come/
14:15:54 <Siren[m]> There's actually no such thing as a MIT license, people refer to the expat license when they say MIT.
14:18:28 <Rucknium[m]> AFAIK, you cannot revoke open source licenses.
14:19:22 <Rucknium[m]> You _could_ say "future code changes are not open source licensed"
14:27:17 <Rucknium[m]> That's why I usually push code to GitHub with no explicit license at first. Then later when the statistical project is mature I figure out which license is most appropriate. That mostly is determined by the project's code dependencies and their licenses.
14:27:54 <Rucknium[m]> Because if I get it wrong there's no option to revoke it
14:29:32 <Rucknium[m]> Well, I guess if a license is invalid because it violates a GPL dependency then it can be "revoked" since it was never valid in the first place.
14:40:18 <Siren[m]> Yes there's no way to revoke a license that was placed at a given time.
14:40:51 <Siren[m]> But if you wish while picking a license, you can modify MIT to your liking
14:42:58 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: I actually wish this was taken more seriously. I have seen Nord Security's NordPass violate GPL as well as gravitational/teleport. They respond by saying "oops" and remove the component or change the license as if nothing happened.
14:43:34 <Siren[m]> As if they didn't make profit from these components already.
14:45:47 <Siren[m]> If I'm remembering correctly GNU used to have a hall of shame for companies violating GPL :) 
15:07:41 <Fibonacci12358> .bal
15:07:41 <Wallet> Fibonacci12358: Access denied for bal. Are you logged in?
15:09:09 <Fibonacci12358> .bal
15:09:09 <Wallet> Fibonacci12358: 0 XMR
15:09:13 <Fibonacci12358> Nice
15:43:43 <NGP[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "The terms of use say "You are..." <- > You may use the App only for lawful purposes and in accordance with these Terms of Use. You agree not to use the App:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/5917340a53a84a3e96b53f6210221c28d1361932>)
15:44:52 <NGP[m]> which raises a question, who can question them for "violating law" if they don't gather any data?
15:50:14 <Rucknium[m]> sgp might be able to give some details about the whole issue. He's a Cake employee.
15:53:42 <great_taste> which app can I use only for unlawful purposes?
16:07:55 <sgp[m]> NGP: I don't understand what you're getting at
16:09:04 <sgp[m]> Terms of use are for the published versions of the app, not the code license
16:10:09 <NGP[m]> > Disclosure of Your Information... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/db630f07093551140f79f276502c2e73f38ea4c3>)
16:11:07 <plowsof11> please don't paste terms of service in the chat 
16:11:26 <NGP[m]> sgp[m]: Thanks for replying, it's just that, well, there isn't really a reason to specify what you can use app for. 
16:11:40 <sgp[m]> Yes because of legal reasons
16:11:57 <sgp[m]> The policy is clear about what we don't (can't) collect and retain
16:12:14 <NGP[m]>  * > ## Disclosure of Your Information... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/0a418c93b4417c4cc8b187c7abee38ccac473c79>)
16:12:21 <NGP[m]> > <@nimagp:matrix.org> > ## Disclosure of Your Information... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/21aa3bd24cb54d3238df80e7cdf99f6d13a9f299>)
16:12:58 <NGP[m]>  * > ## Disclosure of Your Information... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/ade6013ffefcf1d41b6d7f6f5ea165d8e09b6da1>)
16:13:13 <sgp[m]> But if you email our support with your address, and someone asks if we've seen that address, then of course we would have to provide if given a correct request
16:13:34 <NGP[m]>  * > ## Disclosure of Your Information... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/5ea47de9870a242b638158b8b16e28684d451a87>)
16:15:17 <NGP[m]> sgp[m]: Thanks. So this is to make it clear (to courts?) that you prohibit illegal stuff and if user decides to try their chances, it's their fault but you can't provide any data? 
16:16:14 <sgp[m]> It would be a violation of the terms of use in addition to whatever other laws they would violate
16:16:28 <sgp[m]> Terms of use are there to protect Cake
16:16:56 <sgp[m]> Lots of people do things like not back up their seeds, lose their money, then threaten litigation claiming it's our fault
16:19:41 <Rucknium[m]> Cake also had a critical bug in their BTC wallet generation code a few years ago.
16:25:06 <NGP[m]> Makes sense. Thank you for the time 
20:53:22 <boogieman67> how do you guys buy monero?
22:47:17 <boogieman67> nobody here knows how to buy monero?
22:49:25 <fr33_yourself[m]> https://localmonero.co/?rc=0rb0
22:49:31 <fr33_yourself[m]> Local Monero is the best way
22:49:56 <fr33_yourself[m]> IMO if privacy and disintermediating banks is your priority.
22:51:55 <fr33_yourself[m]> Buying with cash helps increase Monero's exchangeability for cash which is important for the network and offers you the highest privacy + anonymity. No third party knows about your purchase or how much you purchased.
22:54:18 <boogieman67> excellent
22:59:11 <plowsof11> fr33_yourself you seem to have slipped a referral code in there, also didnt disclose it, which is against the rules on r/monero and probably here (?) 
23:06:17 <fr33_yourself[m]> If it's a problem then I will change it now?
23:06:18 <fr33_yourself[m]> Apologies if that is an issue
23:06:18 <fr33_yourself[m]> s//?rc=0rb0///
23:06:18 <fr33_yourself[m]> In the future I will disclose
23:54:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think the referral is ok but make sure to disclose it
23:56:13 <boogieman67> are there "covert" referal links, or is that myth?
23:59:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Source of the myth ?