01:33:07 <Morpheus[m]> Hey guys, just letting you know, we had to update our Trocador server today, so there might have been some instability on the service, but now everything is working again
02:30:09 <cockliuser[m]> The dump eet phenomenon happened with me
02:30:55 <cockliuser[m]> Prices for a memecoin went down by a lot right when I bought at above last sell price
02:31:06 <cockliuser[m]> * bought at a price above last
02:32:55 <cockliuser[m]> Anyway can someone explain 10 confirms to me?
02:33:36 <cockliuser[m]> Some people on the internet had said it was because of decoys, but isn't ring size 16 now
02:41:01 <MajesticBank> 10 confirms to improve decoy selection
02:41:43 <MajesticBank> if you spend too fast, it might be obvious which input is spent
02:41:56 <MajesticBank> simple explanation
03:12:46 <hyc> that explanation is nonsense.
03:13:02 <hyc> the only real reason is to prevent txns being invalidated by reorgs.
03:13:21 <hyc> as for "spending too fast" it doesn't matter how many confirms you restrict.
03:13:43 <hyc> if you want to spend fast and N confirms=20, then everyone will start spending after 20 confirms.
03:13:55 <hyc> if you set N=5 then everyone will start spending after 5.
03:14:10 <hyc> the actual number is irrelevant, as far as spending-as-soon-as-you-can goes.
03:16:16 <cockliuser[m]> hyc: Reorgs should be mostly impossible after 2 confirmations, right?
03:16:31 <hyc> not impossible but highly unlikely
03:18:22 <cockliuser[m]> so why do the official wallets want 10 confirmations? wouldn't 5 basically make a tx immutable?
03:19:10 <hyc> in normal operation, we've never seen more than 2-deep reorg. a 51% attacker could choose an arbitrarily deep reorg.
03:19:53 <hyc> 10 confirmations makes a 51% attack much more expensive
03:22:22 <hyc> on my node's logs I see we had 3 depth-3 reorgs in 2018 and 1 in 2019
03:22:48 <hyc> no others sine 2018
03:32:16 <hyc> people need to quit their whining about the 10 confirmation requirement. if they want a weak chain they can use something else.
03:32:52 <hyc> they should learn to break larger denomination coins into smaller ones, make change when they need to.
03:33:10 <hyc> wallet authors might spend some effort thinking about how to make that more convenient
03:33:28 <hyc> but weakening defense against 51% attacks is fucking stupid.
03:34:09 <cockliuser[m]> It's true that 10 confirms might make the network more secure but a 20 minute lock time isn't convenient for normal users
03:35:35 <cockliuser[m]> If we want Monero to replace the global banking system, we need to make it atleast as convenient as bank transfers
03:36:35 <hyc> crypto is about being your own bank
03:36:44 <hyc> that means being responsible for making change for yourself
03:37:09 <hyc> and if you do it in advance, so you always have several usable coins in your wallet, then the confirmation time has no impact on your spending ability
03:37:43 <hyc> the convenience issue is BS. it only requires a little advance preparation.
03:38:03 <hyc> you can do it once/day, or whatever time before you leave the house to go shopping, or whatnot
05:20:31 <johnfoss68[m]> https://www.themoneromoon.com/p/the-monero-moon-issue-61
05:51:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> hyc: I was wondering though, was 10 chosen for a specific reason, or would it be worth researching into a longer/shorter lock? 
05:51:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> We've seen miners come online that seem to have bursts of 10% of the network hash etc. 
05:51:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Assuming: just because we havent seen deeper then 3, doesn't mean there arent shadow miners or offline farms able to reorg 4+ (potentially much more?)
07:36:34 <ceetee[m]> Usability is not BS, but reducing the minimum confirmations is not an acceptable solution as elaborated already.
07:36:34 <ceetee[m]> However, wallets should do a MUCH better job communicating the lock time to the user, and they also should offer single click workarounds. UX Example:
07:36:34 <ceetee[m]> When the first transaction arrives in a freshly created wallet, the user is confronted with the lock time, maybe the first time ever. This is a good time for a popup saying "Don't worry, this is normal, you can spend in about 20min. Note that this lock time applies the the change you get too."
07:36:34 <ceetee[m]> Then on a second popup it could recommend: "To spend several times in quick succession we recommend keeping independent coins. Click this button to generate them now. Alternatively this wallet can generate change automatically. Set slider (eg. 1-5) how much coins to keep at minimum.)
07:37:32 <ceetee[m]> On that note, anybody got update on what happens to monerujos PocketChange feature? Its listed as "funded" and "WIP"
09:57:19 <plowsof11> i noticed user monerobull answering questions in the reddit 'ask anything monday' thread, thanks ! https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/10j94d1/maam_monero_ask_anything_monday_january_23_2023/
09:59:40 <monerobull[m]1> Plowsof why did you write that so weird
10:00:16 <plowsof11> im watching you sir 
10:00:53 <plowsof11> sometimes those threads are not active, nice to see
10:01:14 <monerobull[m]1> I see every single god damn comment in the subreddit (60-70% bot garbage), might as well answer questions
10:02:24 <cockliuser[m]> Weird name though
10:02:25 <cockliuser[m]> MAAM
10:02:52 <monerobull[m]1> Not my idea 🤷‍♂️
10:13:01 <blankpage[m]> The bot garbage put me off the subreddit completely. I gradually noticed I was spending hours of my life reading trash just to think "bot comment again"
10:13:37 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Have an insider in magic grants now
10:14:05 <blankpage[m]> Magic Grant for stopping reddit bots plz
10:14:05 <cockliuser[m]> blankpage[m]: Just go to https://4chan.org/biz/xmr
10:14:46 <blankpage[m]> "We are really seeing the good research here, man" 🫣💀💀
10:15:16 <cockliuser[m]> We at biz have infinitely more monerochans than reddit ever will
10:16:06 <blankpage[m]> I previosuly went to the subreddit for insightful technical comments and news, not monerochan 
10:16:41 <monerobull[m]1> It should be WAY better as of a couple of days ago
10:16:42 <monerobull[m]1> Reddit has r/monerochan for that
10:17:07 <blankpage[m]> Oh there is a bot fix already on reddit?
10:18:16 <cockliuser[m]> monerobull[m]1: Meh, I'd rather have cocaine and meth monerochan than reddit monerochan
10:18:25 <blankpage[m]> If that is true and it has worked then you have really made my week 🙏
10:18:26 <cockliuser[m]> We also have McAfee
10:18:27 <monerobull[m]1> Not really a fix but you guys shouldn't see most bot comments anymore 
10:18:54 <sech1> I still see them in reddit push notifications
10:19:09 <sech1> but when I open reddit to answer, they're not there :D
10:19:18 <monerobull[m]1> It's still a ton of work since you need to manually remove them all
10:19:54 <sech1> weird, because I get a notification, open immediately and it's not there. Is it auto-hidden?
10:20:02 <monerobull[m]1> But the public doesn't get exposed anymore so yeah mostly "fixed"
10:20:57 <sech1> or sometimes, if it's not a bot comment, it remains hidden for a few hours after notification, and _then_ becomes visible
10:20:59 <monerobull[m]1> sech1: Can't go into details in case the botmasters listen in 
10:21:08 <cockliuser[m]> The tech support ones are the best lol
10:21:29 <cockliuser[m]> "Dear sir, Monero tech support is here to help you"
10:22:25 <monerobull[m]1> sech1: That's probably when we manually approve something
10:22:51 <sech1> not sure if you can control it, but you probably need to filter push notifications too
10:23:04 <sech1> because it seems everything gets through there
10:23:05 <blankpage[m]> Hmm in that case I guess the botspam might still be visible in other reddit frontends I use with a redirect extension. Maybe I will have to go back to regular reddit in exchange for hiding the noise
10:23:39 <monerobull[m]1> Good to know
10:24:18 <DanIsnotthemanBr> State secrets for fighting bots
10:24:40 <cockliuser[m]> Btw, semi-related to monero, dread forum should be up within this week
10:25:07 <monerobull[m]1> Yup
10:32:42 <selsta> why not just fully ban all bots?
10:33:58 <cockliuser[m]> They'll create new accounts
10:34:08 <selsta> they do that anyway
10:34:42 <cockliuser[m]> I think bots already get banned, there wouldn't be any reason not to
11:32:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> sech1:  i noticed pools update the block template > resend the block height with more tx in it.
11:32:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> When solo mining to daemon using xmrig, should the "new job" be updating the number of tx as well? Seems it only changes when a new block is mined 
11:33:31 <sech1> yes
11:33:49 <sech1> I'll made a setting in config.json for this
11:33:51 <sech1> *make
11:54:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thanks!
12:13:29 <narodnik> gm
12:30:46 <plowsof11> morning narodnik
12:50:57 <cockliuser[m]> Monero daemon+wallet in C is my wet dream
12:51:08 <cockliuser[m]> * daemon+wallet in pure C is
12:55:30 <sech1> cockliuser[m] what about Rust?
12:56:10 <cockliuser[m]> Rust is not very portable
12:56:27 <cockliuser[m]> Besides, 1Gb binaries aren't very convenient
13:00:27 <sech1> I was just asking because someone here wanted Monero in pure Rust not long time ago :D
13:00:55 <cockliuser[m]> Yeah rust people are a bit like evangelists
13:02:22 <sech1> C++ is fine. Everything C can do, C++ can do too. In extreme cases, linking with .c files is always an option.
13:03:31 <cockliuser[m]> Nothing against C++, just think that OOP isn't really needed in most cases
13:04:02 <cockliuser[m]> Imo C would fare better and potentially increase performance if used properly
13:04:57 <sech1> C++ can get better performance in many cases. Simple example is std::sort in C++ vs qsort in C
13:05:24 <sech1> you can't inline the comparison callback in C, but compiler can inline it easily in C++ due to how templates work
13:05:37 <sech1> in C it must be a pointer to function and a function call
13:06:16 <cockliuser[m]> Still, C++ has the inherent complexity problem
13:06:35 <sech1> Templates and inlining can get a clean and compact code in C++ whereas you'd have to write 10x code in C to get the same performance (because you have to inline functions by hand).
13:07:33 <cockliuser[m]> Templates are more syntactic sugar I'd argue
13:07:50 <cockliuser[m]> Besides, OOP by itself adds a level of complexity
13:07:57 <sech1> yes, but with templates you don't have to make a copy of qsort every time
13:08:02 <cockliuser[m]> And complexity is bad for secure systems
13:08:16 <sech1> OOP is not required in C++
13:08:24 <sech1> you can use C++ as "C with templates" most of the time
13:08:31 <sech1> "C with templates and constexpr"
13:08:43 <cockliuser[m]> It isn't, but it's a feature
13:09:01 <cockliuser[m]> More features generally are regarded as complexity
13:09:12 <cockliuser[m]> C is more strict in that matter
13:09:23 <sech1> yes
13:09:51 <sech1> my point is C++ can be faster exactly because it's more complex
13:10:13 <cockliuser[m]> I agree that it can be faster
13:10:25 <cockliuser[m]> But not more secure
13:10:50 <sech1> Monero uses a lot of C where security is needed - see monero/src/crypto folder
13:11:14 <cockliuser[m]> Yes, the primitives are all c
13:25:23 <esac212[m]> If you care about security then you want Rust or Ada, or Pascal or whatever but not C. Picking C for security is the wildest claim I've ever heard. 
13:25:58 <cockliuser[m]> esac212[m]: Every industrial cryptography library is written in C :)
13:27:17 <cockliuser[m]> Memory-safety is the compiler handholding the developer (imo)
13:30:30 <sech1> Yeah, we see the consequences of "every library in C" with OpenSSL CWEs :D
13:30:43 <sech1> * CVEs
13:30:44 <esac212[m]> cockliuser[m]: C compiler manages stack for the developer. Is it handholding?
13:31:20 <sech1> "everything in C" is only because "everything before" was in C
13:31:32 <sech1> C for programming languages = Bitcoin for cryptocurrency
13:32:32 <cockliuser[m]> Grouping CVEs under faults of C is disingenious 
13:33:11 <cockliuser[m]> We have no evidence that using rust would've stopped those CVEs from occuring
13:34:28 <cockliuser[m]> sech1: Bitcoin is more like COBOL
13:34:33 <ceetee[m]> sech1: C is still nice when you want or need to know what happens on the hardware level
13:34:46 <sech1> A programming language that makes buffer overruns and/or use-after-free impossible would certainly avoid many CVEs from OpenSSL
13:35:08 <sech1> and it's not C or C++
13:35:47 <cockliuser[m]> OpenSSL has it's own complexity problem
13:36:32 <cockliuser[m]> I prefer the OpenBSD devs' implementation of SSL/TLS
13:39:34 <esac212[m]> <cockliuser[m]> "Memory-safety is the compiler..." <- Also, "handholding" is a cornerstone of any security-oriented engineering. The more mistakes can be eliminated by putting domain-specific constraints and by enforcing known good practices to approach a specific problem the better. 
13:39:50 <sech1> This may sound weird, but C# would be better than C/C++ to write secure code - simply because it does bounds checking for all arrays, is strongly typed, detects uninitialized variables, and has better memory safety
13:40:17 <cockliuser[m]> esac212[m]: That isn't the responsibility of the language
13:41:14 <cockliuser[m]> As soon as you make that the language's responsibility, you keep adding features until the language stops being useful
13:41:49 <cockliuser[m]> See: Rust
13:51:29 <esac212[m]> I know Rust better than I ever wanted to know it. There are almost no new features in Rust. The last serious expansion(async/await) was added 4 years ago. All they're doing now is they're trying to fix bugs, inconsistencies and logical fallacies of the language released in 2015.
13:52:09 <xfedex[m]> <sech1> "This may sound weird, but C..." <- Doesn't sound weird at all
13:52:35 <cockliuser[m]> esac212[m]: I'd argue that the cargo infrastructure, and the reliance on llvm is a whole clusterfu.k in itself
13:53:08 <cockliuser[m]> Besides, rust isn't portable to many architectures
13:53:13 <esac212[m]> And from the almost unusable WTF is that Rust 2015 they made a great progress to almost usable Rust of today. 
13:57:25 <esac212[m]> Cargo is not mandatory, you can replace it with any build system you like. GCC backend is coming too, so LLVM won't be the only option quite soon. 
14:12:45 <esac212[m]> Also, I don't recommend to rewrite anything like Monero in Rust for "security" anytime soon. Rust just provides you tools you can use for "defensive programming" and you need to **learn** how to use these tools before approaching any serious projects. From my 4 years of commercial experience with Rust not a lot of folks have an understanding why they're using it. What's worse is they tend to think that just because they're using it
14:12:45 <esac212[m]> everything automagically becomes fast and safe. As the result the dumbest bugs I've ever seen were written in Rust. 
14:14:09 <cockliuser[m]> New languages have this problem especially golang :')
14:15:24 <cockliuser[m]> If go developers actually understood plan9, distributed computing and unix, everyone would be so better off
14:15:36 <cockliuser[m]> But they just use 9pfs sometimes as a tool for network filesystems
14:15:53 <cockliuser[m]> Prime example is docker and kubernetes
14:16:33 <cockliuser[m]> I'd rather kill myself than touch the docker codebase
14:16:40 <xfedex[m]> cockliuser[m]: Go is not a new language
14:17:01 <xfedex[m]> it was created in 2007
14:17:03 <cockliuser[m]> Its very new
14:17:25 <llacqie[m]> cockliuser[m]: +
14:17:39 <llacqie[m]> cockliuser[m]: `+`
14:19:13 <cockliuser[m]> xfedex[m]: C was created in the 1970s :)
14:20:58 <xfedex[m]> cockliuser[m]: C++ was created in the 80s and JavaScript was created in 1995 :)
14:22:34 <cockliuser[m]> I think Go might become useful in 2050
14:25:31 <cockliuser[m]> Go has effectively abandoned the Pike philosophy by adopting Generics in go2 :')
15:23:05 <cockliuser[m]> The number of bots/paid spammers in this thread scares me https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/ttgvut/haveno_isnt_a_dex/
15:25:34 <Rucknium[m]> I think the bot operator is trying to get upvotes on these accounts in the Monero sub so the bots can post in r/cryptocurrency.
15:25:37 <Rucknium[m]> r/cryptocurrency counts karma earned on other cryptocurrency subreddits.
15:27:24 <cockliuser[m]> If that was so those bots wouldn't be commenting things likely to get downvotes
15:28:33 <cockliuser[m]> That thread is filled with bots replying with haveno shill replies without any context or argument
15:28:52 <Rucknium[m]> The bots aren't that smart. They're bots. Their comments are usually posted a day or two after the thread. Most normal users don't see them.
15:29:32 <cockliuser[m]> Don't want to spread FUD but I feel like haveno paid people to do that
15:30:03 <cockliuser[m]> * Don't want to spread FUD but I feel like haveno paid a company to do that
15:35:33 <cockliuser[m]> Multiple replies on that post are similar to https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/ttgvut/comment/i32jb1i/
15:35:37 <NeroCultist[m]> how much does running a node actually help the network?
15:36:01 <xfedex[m]> NeroCultist[m]: A normal node? Not much
15:36:10 <xfedex[m]> An i2p node? Much, much moreù
15:36:11 <xfedex[m]> s/moreù/more/
15:36:25 <NeroCultist[m]> ferb, I know what i'm gonna do today
15:36:46 <cockliuser[m]> Well i2p is lesser used
15:37:16 <xfedex[m]> there aren't many i2p nodes, so they are useful to the network
15:37:17 <cockliuser[m]> because it's hard to setup, atleast compared to tor
15:38:39 <NeroCultist[m]> Can't i make a node on clear net, i2p and  tor?
15:38:40 <NeroCultist[m]> all at once
15:38:52 <NeroCultist[m]> (if i make a node on tor the feds won't  raid me right?)
15:39:34 <cockliuser[m]> Clearnet node will cause the raid
15:39:42 <plowsof11> has a monero node caused a raid before?
15:40:35 <cockliuser[m]> Who knows? Maybe it will in the future, maybe they already took over big nodes and now link ip addresses to wallets
15:40:50 <cockliuser[m]> * they already raided and took over
15:41:10 <cockliuser[m]> The solution is run your own node or use Tor
15:42:02 <plowsof11> if running a monero node might cause a raid what if your isp know you're using tor 
15:42:11 <Rucknium[m]> What is a "big node"? And how could Dandelion++ reduce the benefit of controlling a "big node"?
15:42:24 <RavFX[m]> Rent server far far away using monero
15:42:31 <RavFX[m]> then host you're node there
15:43:56 <RavFX[m]> Big node would be nodes that are included in wallet software.
15:43:57 <RavFX[m]> Some wallets use preferred remote nodes (Both feather and Cake do it, don't know for the others)
15:45:16 <NeroCultist[m]> I'm going to start self hosting a lot more.
15:45:23 <RavFX[m]> And if you think you're ISP might be triggered by tor, use neighbor wifi?
15:45:30 <NeroCultist[m]> I hae a fleet of singleboard computers so I will use them to the best of my ability 
15:46:14 <NeroCultist[m]> my goal is 1 XMR node, one self hosted matrix instance and then some other cool shit ontop of it.
15:46:40 <plowsof11> what if neighbour is using the same isp
15:47:01 <RavFX[m]> At least it's at the neighbor name, not you'rs
15:47:03 <plowsof11> what if government turn internet off 
15:47:12 <RavFX[m]> Then all coin go to 0
15:47:24 <plowsof11> :(
15:48:03 <plowsof11> please correct me, we should be running a tor relay node (not exit) 24/7 
15:48:18 <plowsof11> so at no point are we "turning on tor for 10 minutes" 
15:48:38 <plowsof11> isp will know you are using tor , but not specifically when 
15:48:41 <RavFX[m]> plowsof11: exact
15:49:25 <RavFX[m]> Tor never off
15:49:25 <Rucknium[m]> With Seraphis-level ring size (128+), I wonder how easily even an adversary-controlled "big" remote node could link two transactions sent to it.
15:49:25 <RavFX[m]> And sometime there is more than one instance of tor running
15:49:46 <plowsof11> i think alot of users simply plug their taisl usb in once a month 
15:50:33 <Rucknium[m]> Maybe "popular" is a better term than "big" node
15:50:52 <RavFX[m]> Just use whonix qube, I don't like to reboot
15:50:56 <cockliuser[m]> plowsof11: People have been arrested for running relays in the past
15:50:57 <RavFX[m]> Rucknium[m]: Yeah, there listed in wallets nodes list would be the prime target imo
15:51:22 <NeroCultist[m]> huh
15:51:22 <cockliuser[m]> Rucknium[m]: Good lord, how big is seraphis tx?
15:51:28 <RavFX[m]> cockliuser[m]: Move to a free country if that kind of stuff append around you
15:51:28 <cockliuser[m]> * Good lord, how big is a seraphis tx?
15:51:31 <plowsof11> running your own node of tor will appear the same as a relay node no?
15:52:00 <Rucknium[m]> cockliuser: I think 30% larger than current txs with ring size 16
15:52:03 <plowsof11> cockliuser said clear not monero node = raid and tor relay = raid 
15:52:09 <plowsof11> im confused
15:52:11 <Rucknium[m]> How? More efficient cryptography
15:52:25 <cockliuser[m]> nice
15:53:01 <cockliuser[m]> plowsof11: I mean running any kind of server that the government doesn't like might get you raided haha
15:53:39 <cockliuser[m]> The solution for that, atleast for a monero node, is to host it over tor
15:53:40 <RavFX[m]> cockliuser[m]: That's why you host it behind tor.
15:53:40 <RavFX[m]> or... Rent a server using the monero and never connect to the server with anything but tor
15:53:55 <cockliuser[m]> I already mentioned that
15:57:05 <Rucknium[m]> cockliuser: Look at the 2nd graph here "reference set size vs. transaction size": https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/91
15:57:20 <Rucknium[m]> Seraphis is "concise" or "squashed"
15:57:34 <Rucknium[m]> It's "sub-linear"
15:57:52 <Rucknium[m]> Logarithmic increase in tx size with ring size
16:01:03 <selsta> 16:29 <cockliuser[m]> Don't want to spread FUD but I feel like haveno paid people to do that <-- I have been following these bots for ages and they also posted anti Haveno / Cake comments in the past
16:03:40 <selsta> I don't know what the point of these bot accounts is
16:07:40 <plowsof11> my assumption is , that reddit will only count a 'up / down' vote on a thread 
16:07:52 <dANBs[m]> zhoska[xmpp]: ping
16:08:01 <plowsof11> so if youre a company who is selling up/down votes you have to position yourself as a market leader - with the most active bots that are eligible to vote on threads 
16:08:29 <plowsof11> eligibility determined with some algorithm (i have no idea if this is true but it seems to make sense)
16:12:51 <cockliuser[m]> <plowsof11> "my assumption is , that reddit..." <- Well actually post karma is worth more than comment karma
16:13:42 <cockliuser[m]> But the bots won't get upvotes with posts because they can't post anything that will get upvotes, because they're bots after all
16:13:54 <cockliuser[m]> So they just comment random shit
16:15:46 <plowsof11> comment random - 1/10 of those bots got a thumb up - this 1/10 bot can now upvote another bot - and then this cascades (assuming that you ave to be 'eligible' to upvote something)
16:16:24 <plowsof11> its just an ongoing problem, that the kind mods of reddit have to deal with daily
16:59:24 <pauliouk> https://xkcd.com/810/  Someday soon - if you can link in some Reddit bots with ChatGPT
17:12:36 <plowsof11> ping
17:16:57 <RavFX[m]> plowsof[m]: pong
17:17:40 <plowsof> thanks, pauliouk had a message not make it through :'( 
17:18:21 <plowsof11> pauliouksaid : "https://xkcd.com/810/  Someday soon - if you can link in some Reddit bots with ChatGPT"
17:22:48 <Rucknium[m]> I think the IRC -> Matrix bot takes one ,essage to wake up. So it eats the first message if there haven't been any IRC messages recently
17:34:33 <selsta> Rucknium[m]: it does not happen if the room is setup correctly, but #monero might not be setup correctly since it's a new room
17:35:34 <selsta> who has admin priviliges here on matrix side?
17:35:40 <selsta> privileges
17:36:10 <petjutolo[m]> Hi, I want to send XMR from my linux monero-cli wallet (v0.17.2.3-release) , monerod daemon fails on "E wrong variant type: N10cryptonote12txout_to_keyE, expected txout_to_tagged_key in transaction id=<6..." 
17:36:17 <selsta> https://matrix-org.github.io/matrix-appservice-irc/latest/room_configuration.html#allowunconnectedmatrixusers this has to be enabled
17:36:47 <selsta> petjutolo[m]: you have to update your wallet
17:44:44 <plowsof11> 0 days since a 17.2.3 report 
17:54:43 <petjutolo[m]> THX, with v0.18.1.2-release it works fine now
18:37:43 <super-punk[m]> Hi guys
18:38:31 <super-punk[m]> Is there a type of Monero (sub) addresses that start with 4...?
18:38:58 <super-punk[m]> Cuz I'm trying to make a payment and this is the first time I see an address like that
18:39:29 <plowsof11> primary address (or a longer integrated address) begin with a 4
18:40:16 <super-punk[m]> Also, when confirming the transaction of Ledger the device is showing another address. Am I being sandwich attacked?
18:40:18 <plowsof11> you can paste the address here to be sure https://monerotech.info/Home/Address
18:40:37 <plowsof11> the ledger will show the base address (of the integrated address) you will also see it on monerotech .info 
18:40:49 <plowsof11> its a common issue that ledger need to solve 
18:42:57 <super-punk[m]> Ah yes, ledger is showing what appears to be the "Base Monero address with payment ID stripped"
18:43:15 <super-punk[m]> So it's all good?
18:43:22 <plowsof11> correct, all ok
18:44:10 <super-punk[m]> Awesome. I was having a hart attack for a second there 😅
18:56:26 <super-punk[m]> On another note, do you guys know if any progress is being on cross-chain DEXs?
18:57:35 <super-punk[m]> Because I have been following the potential integration of Haven in Thorchain, which would lead to Monero later. But it's not looking well over there for the time being.
18:57:52 <super-punk[m]> super-punk[m]: *being made
19:01:15 <hyc> i thought particl's dex is working already
19:26:13 <serpent[m]> what is the best way send monero from cake wallet to binance? in binance i couldn't find receive feature
19:26:26 <hyc> don't send monero to binance\
19:26:39 <hyc> don't do any business with binance
19:26:50 <DanIsnotthemanBr> -.-
19:27:18 <serpent[m]> hyc: in my country the best crypto software is binance
19:27:40 <serpent[m]> if you tell me how do this job that would be great
19:27:52 <hyc> https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/1609288484404985856
19:27:58 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Trying to go to fiat?
19:28:57 <hyc> https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/1617166703376609289
19:29:06 <hyc> if you send any money to binance you will never see it again.
19:29:54 <selsta> if you have to use binance ask their support, they have to provide a receive address, we can't help
19:30:47 <hyc> https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/1614354647216713728
19:32:28 <as2333> binance is the biggest centralized exchange on the planet and so it obviously sucks - but the claim "Binance US just got a $250 million crypto bailout"  doesnt sound credible. 
19:35:07 <hyc> it's all there for anyone to see https://twitter.com/MikeBurgersburg/status/1609277551754575872
19:36:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> <cockliuser[m]> "Btw, semi-related to monero..." <- How do you know this? Even it's onion address will be functional? Will it's address be the same or will it be on a new onion address?
19:36:03 <as2333> https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-binance-served-crypto-traders-iran-years-despite-us-sanctions-clients-2022-07-11/
19:40:39 <RavFX[m]> Why binance should obey USA admins?
19:40:52 <RavFX[m]> They also serve Russia, no issue there
19:41:09 <fr33_yourself[m]> <plowsof11> "has a monero node caused a..." <- Maybe not yet, but the day will come. Not in all countries, but in those where Big Brother is the most sophisticated and well financed.
19:44:46 <fr33_yourself[m]> <cockliuser[m]> "The solution for that, atleast..." <- This is true. But your ISP will still catch glimpses of what is going on when the Tor node connects to clearnet nodes
20:56:10 <xfedex[m]> <as2333> "https://www.reuters.com/..." <- They also sell crypto in Turkey, where it's illegal
20:58:25 <as2333> xfedex[m] nice =)
20:58:48 <as2333> so playing devil's advocate here : at least binance doesn't fully toe the US party line
20:59:39 <xfedex[m]> I don't think that "US party line" really likes turkey
21:05:21 <as2333> So they ignore US 'sanctions' against iran and russia. Ignoring the dictates of the turkish govt isn't directly related, true. Overall those are examples of binance not fully obeying governmetn bullshit. 
21:06:54 <as2333> that said, fuck all exchanges =)
21:07:46 <great_taste> except TradeOgre
21:07:47 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Need to funnel money somehow
23:26:25 <cockliuser[m]> <fr33_yourself[m]> "How do you know this? Even it'..." <- Hugbunter posted an update
23:45:38 <euterpre[m]> Test