04:02:38 "make a reddit post, wait for..." <- LOL. is it that easy to get free monero? make a sob story and wait for people to give u free monero? 04:42:25 "LOL. is it that easy to get free..." <- Great way to inspire usage and bring awareness. Certainly better than lectures and technical specs most won't understand. 05:04:40 "Great way to inspire usage and..." <- how does that bring awareness? 05:04:54 the donator is likely already aware of monero 05:07:26 anyone have a breached account to share the links of https://breached.vc/Thread-TSA-NoFly-List-Database-Leaked-Download 05:18:26 "anyone have a breached account..." <- are u thinking that ur on the no fly list? 05:26:22 I think it would be fun to search up some political type people 05:26:28 snowden and the like 05:26:39 but I don't have an email that's on the breached whitelist domain list 06:30:39 "LOL. is it that easy to get free..." <- Some absolute chad gave out 0.5 xmr on 4chan to 5 people 06:30:52 God bless /biz/ 06:43:22 I'm curious on what you guys think but is buying monero from an atm a secure way to get it aside from P2P exchanges? 06:49:57 many ATM's require verification with ID, face, credit card or a combination of those. If you can pay with cash and without verification, ATM is a good option 06:52:18 ah ok thanks for the info 07:05:36 "many ATM's require verification..." <- ATMs are physically in contact with you, no one knows what they can do 07:06:24 Wear full body clothing, gloves, and shoes that increase your height, also wear a mask, sunglass and a hat 07:06:48 Even after taking all those measures you still could be deanonymized if the agencies are after you 07:10:55 cockliuser[m]: are they really going _that_ far to identify ppl buying crypto at BATMS 08:25:22 Probably not but it depends on your threat model 08:39:51 <^Tcache> Hello, 08:39:51 <^Tcache> Can someone sugest me best place to exchange also buy & sell XMR Anonymously. (Without giving them passport details and stuff) ? 08:39:51 <^Tcache> I want to buy XMR but i dont know the best place to go. 08:39:51 <^Tcache> Since im new. :( 09:08:09 With fiat? Try https://localmonero.co 09:09:45 Yeah localmonero.co is just the only way to go if you want complete anonymity. Unfortunately, some countries just don't accept payments method like cash by mail etc... 09:10:51 <^Tcache> Thank you for information. I will try :)) 09:27:11 Can anyone send a post on Reddit about my CCS Proposal to discuss ? I don't like to be the one asking to be seen but my reddit account has 2 karma so i'm shadowban... 10:06:53 someoneelse495495: which ccs 12:06:49 Are there many successes sending cash by mail internationally? 12:17:26 "Are there many successes sending..." <- would highly doubt it 12:18:43 people send cash in the mail internationally to purchase services like mullvad and a significant number of them report not receiving time on their account meaning the mail was likely stolen 12:18:47 or lost 12:18:52 probably stolen though 12:19:58 "Probably not but it depends on..." <- well you are a cockliuser afterall, i imagine your threat model is higher than that guys 12:42:01 Who is responsible for taking getmonero.org down? 12:42:48 Maybe they're finally migrating out of Chinese shared hosting 12:43:06 Cloudflarefuck + ChinkCDN 12:44:43 someoneelse495495 if you make a thread and link it here, a kind reddit moderator can approve it or in #monero-community:monero.social 12:45:04 Stnby[m]: Also why did it start using cloudflare? 12:45:25 Siren[m]: Isn't Cloudflare based in USA? 12:45:33 Of course 12:45:39 has it always been cloudflare? 12:45:54 We have too smart of core 12:46:00 Siren[m]: DDoS i guess. 12:46:00 Monero has many adversaries. 12:46:00 Or perhaps it just started with CloudFlare 12:46:14 Fluffypony knows for sure 12:46:16 ask him 12:46:22 getmonero always used cloudflare 12:46:27 core are busy with it / no ddos 12:47:09 lol 12:47:11 guys 12:47:30 we're just upgrading the server and we were struggling with the IPMI being unresponsive 12:47:44 the CDN is still up, and we'll have it fixed in the next 12 hours 12:47:46 nothing to see here 12:48:05 BUT WE CANT DOWNLOAD MONERO 12:48:10 Very long downtime :D 12:48:10 lol 12:48:16 lol sech1 12:48:20 getmonero.org needs an i2p frontend by the way 12:48:26 Do you need help with migrating a static site without downtime? 12:49:12 Stnby[m]: feel free to contribute to this: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/blob/master/SERVER_SETUP_HARDENING.md 12:49:41 we're also not migrating anything 12:49:53 it was an OS upgrade that seems to have borked something 12:53:55 That was going to happen eventually, it clearly needs redundant setup, reading the MD right now. 12:54:37 Stnby[m]: why does it need a redundant setup? we have the CDN, binaries are on GitHub, a few hours of downtime isn't going to kill anyone 12:54:44 feel free to fund a redundant setup 12:55:03 fluffypony: problem is luigi always forgets to upload binaries to github 12:55:17 maybe someone with github access can add them 12:55:22 selsta: right but that's a fixable problem 12:55:41 Use CI/CD for that 12:55:45 we've had minimal downtime in the last 9 years, I don't think we need to stress about this 12:56:00 Binaries are not on github, they link to https://downloads.getmonero.org/ which is down 12:56:13 Siren[m]: can't, binaries need to be manually checked - that's the point of reproducible builds 12:56:18 otherwise it's an untrusted path 12:56:21 we need to get a movie to the oscars, hopefully this is fixed soon sir 12:56:27 rofl plowsof11 12:56:34 This does not require a mainframe, pretty sure we can fund it 12:56:36 oscars is overhyped 12:56:56 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/789#issuecomment-1410210834 12:57:12 if someone asks for the binaries i have them linked here 12:57:16 Stnby[m]: super low physical tin requirements, but what it does require is a well-peered, low-latency 10gbps unmetered link at a DC, and that's the issue 12:57:42 "Stnby: feel free to contribute..." <- Ditch Wazuh for Falco and you'll be able to monitor both the host and the docker containers 12:57:49 It's also lighter weight 12:57:57 10gbps? Do people download Monero that much? 12:58:04 selsta: yeah 12:58:07 sech1 I mean 12:58:16 You mentioned its behind a CDN, so what the server requires is certainly not a 10gbps unmetered link 12:58:23 even with the CDN we get a ton of cache misses 12:58:49 Stnby[m]: the CDN is mostly for punching through the GFW 12:58:55 Yes I know because we do not have a proper caching setup 12:59:08 Headers for cache do not exist basically 12:59:30 so submit a PR to the document 12:59:38 fluffypony: Manually checked for what? 12:59:46 I do not like current Docker setup 13:00:14 Siren[m]: to make sure that everyone agrees what the hashes of the binaries should be 13:00:24 so that nobody can backdoor the binaries 13:00:55 Siren[m]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproducible_builds 13:02:10 I know what reproducible builds are 13:02:34 so then you can see how going from an untrusted CI/CD pipeline into GitHub is a problem 13:02:41 Still doesn't make sense to me why you would do this by hand 13:02:55 fluffypony: Doesn't need to be a GitHub pipeline hell no 13:03:11 You have a gitlab instance ffs 13:03:20 right but it's still an untrusted build 13:03:30 someone could hack the CI/CD pipeline and backdoor the binaries 13:03:31 How? 13:03:45 the point of repro builds is for everyone to agree on the hashes BEFORE the builds are made publicly available 13:03:48 not after 13:04:08 s/everyone/a significant number of people who have a repro build environment 13:04:16 fluffypony: Not everything coming from ci has to be pushed straight to the download page 13:05:07 right but they'd still be available, even if the poisoned binaries are online for a couple of hours in a single location it's problematic 13:05:22 binaryFate already adds the release notes to GitHub, also attaching binaries shouldn't be an issue in the future 13:05:23 fluffypony: And how do you all have a reproducible build environment? do you use nix? 13:05:31 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/dyfozs/security_warning_cli_binaries_available_on/ 13:05:34 it's happened before, btw 13:05:55 Siren[m]: gitian 13:05:55 they were compromised for 35 minutes 13:05:57 Siren[m] https://github.com/monero-project/monero/tree/master/contrib/gitian 13:06:10 fluffypony: No they wouldn't be if it's multiple steps or pushes only on tag action etc 13:06:23 sech1: What were the investigation results? 13:06:29 fluffypony: Yeah and how did that happen? 13:06:55 * investigation results? (oopsie wrong reply) 13:07:19 Siren[m]: hard to tell; had the drives pulled and audited and the working theory was physical compromise at the DC we used back then 13:07:31 new DC is much better 13:07:42 actually cares about our opsec 13:08:22 You can get compromised at personal computer, Github, DC, CDN, Cloudflare all of these points 😉 13:08:27 fluffypony: Avoiding CI/CD won't protect you from that. Did you have Wazuh ruleset to watch over the binaries? 13:08:42 Siren[m]: this predates the hardened setup 13:08:53 the hardened setup was as a reaction to the incident 13:09:07 Docker needs to go out of this "hardened" setup 13:09:09 anyway, I deeply appreciate that everyone here is an expert 13:09:14 feel free to open a PR to the doc 13:09:35 Cloudflare will censor and potentially hurt users if US gov decides to sanction or does something stupid like that. 13:09:50 Can we come up with a setup for the website and website only that in our eyes is redundant, hardened and idk cheaper to run? 13:10:39 No Debian, no Docker "hardening" bs 13:10:53 Stnby[m]: you can do whatever you'd like, it's a free world 13:11:34 Siren[m]: we have fallbacks for a lot of the points of failure 13:11:55 Would any of you be interested in having something done from scratch and if someone is willing to review it we will attempt it 13:12:14 And "we" are who? 13:12:25 digilol.net 13:12:34 submit the PR and let that be the point of discussion and collaboration 13:16:10 Okay, thanks for the info, will attempt to throw something together. 13:27:54 "someoneelse495495: which ccs" <- https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/373 14:06:27 "Okay, thanks for the info..." <- whats your pfp 14:06:29 i dont get it 14:07:24 Its a picture of me and my uncle 14:07:51 captaincrunchpre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_military_band 14:08:48 your uncle is really classy 14:13:00 "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..." <- are u a turk 14:13:26 captaincrunchpre: No 14:13:54 sounds like a turk flag behind 14:14:18 Stnby[m]: then why do u have a pfp with a turk flag 14:14:44 Same reason why you don't have any pfp 14:14:54 lol 14:15:40 someoneelse49549: I'm with an Ottoman empire flag, which does not exist anymore 14:16:19 wtf are you telling me you doesn't exist anymore? 14:16:20 * exist anymore? /s 14:16:45 Yeah I am quantum particle 14:16:56 lmao 14:25:03 "https://repo.getmonero.org/..." <- I'm going to copy paste the ccs and replace rust with c and no one can stop me 14:25:08 trollface.png 14:25:45 I'm trying to send some dust (just barely more than the fee) from the cli wallet and I get to 'Is this okay? (Y/Yes/N/No):' but when I type Y and hit enter, the enter key doesn't work, all I get is a ^M 14:26:17 is it because of the small amount? 14:26:59 Sweeping 0.000042260000 for a total fee of 0.000030640000. Is this okay? (Y/Yes/N/No): Y^M 14:31:48 anticarnist: what OS are you using? how did you install monero-wallet-cli? 14:35:05 selsta: pop_os. downloaded from getmonero.org. It worked yesterday, but that was with bigger amounts. 14:35:20 ^M is carriage return, I don't see how this is related to the amount 14:35:42 did you do anything different compared to yesterday? 14:36:09 yes, doung sweep instead of tranfer 14:36:15 doing* 14:36:19 how many times did you try? 14:36:29 two 14:38:05 ctrl+m doesn't work either, pretty strange 14:38:29 what happens if you just enter a lowercase y and then enter? 14:38:55 same thing, enter just inputs a ^M 14:39:09 but enter works when entering transfer or sweep ? 14:39:14 the command itself i mean 14:39:40 what's the output of echo $TERM 14:39:43 "I'm going to copy paste the..." <- oh no a wide c maximalist appears /s 14:41:47 selsta: yes, works fine up until that prompt. echo output: st-256color 14:42:41 can you change it to one of these? https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/50aa0e8b7f11680be3954c176f2daa9ccf77b7dd/contrib/depends/patches/ncurses/fallback.c#L11 14:42:56 we don't have fallback for st-256color 14:44:26 try running stty sane or stty icrnl 14:45:07 okay, I tried to close the terminal and do it all again, but with lower y and enter instead of capital Y and that worked, lol 14:46:41 wo don't have any fallback values for st-256color, try `TERM= xterm-256color ./monero-wallet-cli` or maybe what Siren[m] said 14:46:51 capital Y should also work if everything is setup correctly 14:47:10 (without space) 14:47:57 maybe it was the fact that I closed and reopened the terminal? 14:48:20 what does it say when you do `echo $TERM` now? 14:49:21 same 14:52:28 Seems like your terminal got stuck in a cooked mode https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_mode 14:52:41 anticarnist: Could be that previously you accidentally disabled icrnl 14:52:59 I think it could either be issues with terminal emulator or monero or previous commands job 14:53:09 * or monero cli or previous 14:54:06 There were cases when monero cli didn't restore terminal settings after exiting 14:54:24 I have a feeling its monero cli related in here as well 14:54:35 Y/n selector should be in cooked mode 14:57:20 I tried again now, and now it worked with capital Y, so not sure what it was but closing and reopening the terminal solved it. 14:58:03 "what does it say when you do `..." <- Same output? 14:59:50 What terminal emulator were you using? 15:05:24 st 15:08:59 Probably its fault sus terminal 15:09:30 Their philosophy is lines of code, not error handling 15:17:37 "oh no a wide c maximalist..." <- Rust evangelist vs C maximalist battle 15:18:10 epic fight 15:18:10 I'd bet 20WOW that the C maxi wins :3 15:36:59 *Golang lover has joined the chat 15:40:05 QQ about the full blockchain sync, why does it go so much faster at the start than at the end? 15:41:20 checkpoints 15:42:28 they are added for each release 15:43:00 ...and those have a cumulative impact on the validation? 15:43:41 yes 15:43:45 smathy[m]: Both checkpoints and block size 15:43:57 Thanks nioc 15:44:11 (newer monero blocks have more transactions than old blocks) 15:44:26 xfedex: ah cool, that was one of my guesses. 15:44:32 yes but mostly checkpoints 15:45:06 checkpoints are the main slowdown and the last release was months ago so a lot of blocks have to be synced without checkpoints 15:45:10 nioc: depends on your device 15:45:30 the blocks before ringCT are faster 15:45:38 Will the cumulative effect of the checkpoints eventually mean it becomes too slow? 15:45:44 if you have a hard disk, then disk speed will usually be the bottleneck 15:46:02 smathy[m]: No, not at all 15:46:22 xfedex[m]: true, I only use SSDs :) 15:46:41 What checkpoints do is saying "hey, blockchain is valid till block x, and its hash is y" 15:47:00 so your computer needs to crunch less numbers when syncing 15:47:06 Hmm, that seems like it ...right. 15:47:21 So why does that make it slower the further through the blockchain you get? 15:47:58 (happy to ask this in dev if that's better, seems like we quickly got away from the end user space here :) 15:48:15 no here is good 15:48:18 smathy[m]: Because checkpoints are added every once and while (usually during hardforks); they are hardcoded into source code. 15:48:18 Once you pass the last checkpoint, monerod must check manually that the blocks it receives are valid. 15:51:27 smathy[m]: are you using a HDD or SSD? 15:52:19 SSD 15:52:40 great :) 15:52:42 It's a MBP M1 Max. 15:53:15 HDDs can be painful for initial syncing 15:53:30 But if the checkpoints allow it to refer back to just the last checkpoint, rather than having to validate all the way back (right?) why does that explain why it takes like 3 minutes per 10% at the start of the blockchain vs hours for 90-100% at the end? 15:54:53 the beginning had different transaction type and fewer transactions 15:54:58 nioc: right, so I hear. Which was my other guess before asking, that this was a slowdown for something internal to lmdb once it gets a large value. 15:55:26 Right, ok. That was another guess, that the complexity/size/number/something of transactions and/or verification process has dramatically increased. 15:55:32 monerod ships with a list of known block hashes (checkpoints) 15:55:52 if a block is known it has to so less verifiable work 15:55:59 verification* 15:56:13 Right, so don't checkpoints improve the efficiency of the verification? 15:56:17 less work per block = faster sync 15:56:25 Answered :) 15:56:45 selsta: Will nodes reject a blockchain re-org that is deeper than the checkpoints? 15:56:48 all blocks that were mined after the last release are unknown 15:57:10 Rucknium[m]: Blockchain reorgs cannot be more than 10 blocks long 15:57:12 So yes, it will 15:57:28 I dont think that's true 15:57:34 Rucknium[m]: there are two different systems with the name checkpoint 15:57:46 So, unless as time has gone on, checkpoints have been more sparse (which [the code doesn't imply](https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/checkpoints/checkpoints.cpp#L176)) then I don't see how that explains the sync slowing down. 15:58:15 Liek everything in Monero with the name ambiguity :P 15:58:19 one does what you describe, you can't rollback further, and the other speeds up sync with known block hashes 15:59:48 xfedex[m]: I also don't think that's true, there's no 10 block limit 15:59:54 selsta: Ah ok, I understand that, but that'd only be at the very end. Like even 40-50% is much slower than 10-20%. 16:00:05 smathy: Checkpoints have been utterly sparse since the last monerod version release :) 16:00:06 Blocks newer than 10 blocks are referred as "tips", blocks older than 10 blocks are permanent 16:00:23 selsta: Are you sure? 16:00:25 smathy[m]: that's due to different usage and different cryptography 16:00:25 Rucknium[m]: Infinitely sparse :) 16:00:44 2014-2015 barely had usage and simpler cryptography 16:01:28 Bitcoin Cash has a 10 block re-org depth limit right now. The perils of being a minority hashpower chain. 16:02:04 xfedex[m]: yes 16:03:12 wallets have a configurable reorg limit but not the daemon 16:03:25 (as far as I know) 16:03:28 I 51% attacked the Townforge testnet and re-orged about 24 hours of blocks. Townforge and Monero have about the same blockchain code. 16:05:31 So yeah, around the 44% mark it really slows down. This was just after a log ouput "Validating txpool for v4" which I'm guessing was a fork that involved a big change in verification/security/something. 16:06:02 v4 introduces RingCT 16:06:19 which uses inefficient cryptography 16:06:52 selsta: read this https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/95 16:06:53 > Outputs in the PoW 'reorg zone' (the most recent ~1-10 blocks) can be completely removed from the chain by a reorg, because any output that can be reorged can be double-spent. 16:06:55 from this I deduce that reorgs cannot be longer than 10 blocks 16:07:38 once you get to v8 sync will speed up again due to advancements in cryptography 16:08:21 Ok cool. 16:09:19 xfedex @xfedex:matrix.org: selsta has read that lol 16:09:53 xfedex: I think the wording there is just unclear. It's the "re-org zone" since it's the chosen safety factor of the 10 block lock on spending tx outputs. 16:10:29 I would recommend asking UkoeHB in #monero-research-lab:monero.social to confirm the meaning of that statement and to revise if necessary. 16:15:39 Seeing as I have an SSD, during this v4-v8 stuff, this is all CPU-bound? 16:16:01 (fwiw, my htop suggests it's not really) 16:18:17 sync is not bound by anything in my system 16:21:18 random IO speed is important for sync 16:21:42 xfedex[m]: you'd have to ask UkoeHB to clarify, but I'm certain there's no 10 block re-org limit 16:32:19 Ok, nothing I can do about that, thanks 16:35:11 Checkpoints dont discard ALL data. Increased monero usage = more data to verify. Checkpoints decrease the workload, not eliminate it. 16:35:11 Syncing to ssd should take 8-24 hours on most systems 16:38:51 And yeah, it just wasn't making sense that checkpoints we're the cause of the slow down, but I wasn't understanding what y'all were talking about (the final stages, after the last checkpoint) nor was I making my actual question clear (ie that it slows down way before then in the 40% range (turned out to be v4)) 16:39:20 Really appreciate all the help, very new to this and you've all been very helpful 16:48:21 Its like..... (full message at ) 18:18:36 Right, it's a checksum of all the blocks since the last checkpoint.