00:43:12 <Stnby[m]> PredatorONormies: 
00:44:17 <Stnby[m]> Monerotalk
00:45:05 <Stnby[m]> *  :)Monerotalk
02:39:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> <privacygurl[m]> "and i see remote nodes listed..." <- Those are mine, yes
09:55:30 <hyc> https://twitter.com/crypto/status/1622521500942073859
09:55:55 <hyc> article https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-03/bitcoin-developers-must-face-uk-trial-over-lost-cryptoassets
09:58:20 <hyc> seems to be related to a suit filed by CSW's company in April 2021
09:59:34 <hyc> very few details in the article, unfortunately
10:00:45 <hyc> if BTC core loses the case, hard to see what differentiates them from us or devs of any other open source project
10:01:05 <hyc> basically says you're liable if anyone loses money running your code
10:01:45 <hyc> which is a more stringent standard than even proprietary commercial software is held to
10:08:30 <hyc> OTOH, these devs may only be targets because they're in for-profit corps like Blockstream
10:58:43 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Isnt it faketoshi?
11:00:33 <hyc> isn't who?
11:02:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Craig wright doing this trying to get coins he doesnt own
11:03:10 <hyc> is it only that? or are there other people tryuing to get back stolen coins too?
11:05:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> The company sueing them is owned by craig
11:05:41 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Hes trying to set precedence with all his cases
11:07:35 <sech1> Monero license explicitly says developers are not liable: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/LICENSE
11:07:47 <hyc> yeah, I see that. seems like he's getting close to success.
11:08:02 <hyc> DanIsnotthemanBr: ^
11:09:08 <hyc> sech1: doesn't the bitcoin license also say that? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/COPYING
11:09:33 <sech1> yes, so this will be a non-event for btc devs
11:09:43 <hyc> makes sense
11:09:47 <sech1> otherwise the whole open source software licensing system is broken
11:11:16 <DanIsnotthemanBr> I think this is craig last attempt. The last case he one and was awarded $1. But the judge said he gave false evidence and lied.
11:11:25 <DanIsnotthemanBr> That was defamation case too
11:11:55 <hyc> yeah, that made no sense to me. giving false evidence should have killed his case completely.
11:11:59 <DanIsnotthemanBr> s/one/won/
11:12:23 <hyc> I mean the $1 award is kind of a slap in the face, but he should have simply lost.
11:14:56 <DanIsnotthemanBr> The guy is a nutjob
11:15:06 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Funded by a billionaire
11:15:28 <hyc> ohhh, who's supporting him?
11:15:42 <hyc> since he's obviously not living off satoshi's unspent coins
11:31:40 <droponetwo[m]> hello
11:31:52 <droponetwo[m]> im looking to exchange some of my monero to btc. wondering if changenow is reliable/gives clean coins
11:32:03 <droponetwo[m]> i dont want to end up with a wallet full of dirty bit 
11:32:09 <droponetwo[m]> s/bit/btc/
11:35:50 <hyc> what do you need to do with the btc? if you just need to spend them somewhere, send them directly from the exchanger to whoever you're dealing with
11:36:55 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Trocador
11:37:00 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://www.coindesk.com/business/2023/02/03/craig-wrights-uk-case-against-16-bitcoin-developers-to-go-to-full-trial-report/
11:43:23 <droponetwo[m]> <hyc> "what do you need to do with..." <- im looking to buy giftcards with the btc
11:43:47 <droponetwo[m]> i didnt know that you could send them directly from the exchanger? how does one do this/are there any guides to doing this? 
11:43:51 <hyc> you can't buy the giftcards using xmr?
11:44:29 <droponetwo[m]> hyc: unfortunately i cant. 
11:44:32 <hyc> when you use an exchanger you have to tell them a wallet address to send your coins to. just put in the wallet address of the place you're buying from.
11:45:00 <droponetwo[m]> how does the place im buying from know to send the card to me? 
11:45:16 <droponetwo[m]> if they're receiving from the exchange?
11:45:30 <hyc> usually you will have placed an order and they will have generated a unique wallet address that goes with your order
11:45:46 <droponetwo[m]> oh yeah ur right
11:46:03 <droponetwo[m]> im wondering how this is safer than me receiving the coins and then using those coins to pay for the order? 
11:46:31 <hyc> because the coins never touch a wallet that you own. so if they're tainted coins, they won't taint your wallets
11:46:48 <droponetwo[m]> ah. what about in a scenario where i use a brand new wallet? 
11:47:10 <droponetwo[m]> in that case would it make no difference? or would there still be a benefit in paying directly from the exchanger? 
11:47:14 <hyc> as long as you discard the wallet after that one use, I guess
11:47:31 <droponetwo[m]> are there any exchangers that have good reputation
11:47:36 <droponetwo[m]> aka ones that dont give u tainted coins 
11:47:46 <hyc> personally I have no bitcoin wallet. The few times I've needed to send anyone bitcoin I've done it directly from an exchanger
11:48:01 <droponetwo[m]> hyc: can i ask what exchanger you used? 
11:48:35 <hyc> I used to use xmr.to but they don't exist any more. fixedfloat was prob good
11:48:59 <droponetwo[m]> hyc: xmr to lighnting right? ill check them out 
11:51:19 <hyc> so you're not in a place where coincards.com works, or coincards doesn't have the card you're looking for?\
11:51:33 <hyc> they've added cards when I've asked about particular ones
11:53:26 <droponetwo[m]> hyc: dont want to self dox but im currently living in australia. will be a few years till i get back to the states so yeah, unfortunately coin cards wont work for me 
11:54:06 <droponetwo[m]> hyc: maybe i could try to email them about adding cards in australia but dont think it would do much to help haha 
11:54:11 <hyc> ah
11:55:06 <droponetwo[m]> hyc: can i ask waht do u do when u want to cash out in general? when you want pure cash fiat rather than giftcards? 
11:55:31 <droponetwo[m]> afaik there aren't really any ATMS that do monero to fiat. all the ones i've seen only accept btc
11:56:01 <hyc> I haven't cashed out. I've spent some coins here and there, and sent them as donations
11:56:14 <droponetwo[m]> hyc: donations?
11:56:26 <hyc> yeah, I donated XMR to openprivacy
11:56:36 <hyc> and a few other organizations\
11:56:42 <droponetwo[m]> first time hearing about openprivacy
11:56:45 <droponetwo[m]> ill check them out
11:56:48 <hyc> openprivacy.ca
11:57:38 <hyc> and to the Canadian truckers.    (no, just kidding)
11:57:48 <droponetwo[m]> lol
11:57:58 <droponetwo[m]> hopefully u did it in xmr 
11:58:06 <droponetwo[m]> (theoretically) 
11:58:15 <hyc> lol
11:58:58 <droponetwo[m]> jeez well i dont see what i can do besides take a flight and cash out overseas :( 
12:00:04 <hyc> Australia banned xmr from local exchanges didn't they
12:00:37 <droponetwo[m]> pretty sure
12:00:38 <droponetwo[m]> they are talks about banning encryption as well lol
12:00:41 <droponetwo[m]> s/they/there/
16:19:54 <MadKats> Hello everyone!
16:22:16 <droponetwo[m]> hi
16:23:35 <MadKats> I'm completely new to mining and i got one question, is this the right channel to ask ?
16:25:41 <droponetwo[m]> this channel or the monero mining channel
16:27:35 <plowsof11> not sure if we have a specific mining FAQ channel on IRC, in the meantime, lurk on r/moneromining and read this from top to bottom https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining/comments/lt9xzj/faqs_for_noobs_read_this_before_posting/
16:28:33 <MadKats> Sweet, so as i said im completly new into the mining and i decided to mine  monero, i also decided to start mining via pool (Not P2P), i would like to know if its possible to mine with my AMD Ryzen 3 1200 GPU if it's good for it and if possible someone knows the average hash rate of that GPu cause i got consfused and on internet i dibnt managed to found that info
20:52:50 <Pcubensis[m]> How many GB for full xmr blockchain?
20:54:26 <smathy[m]> 141
20:55:26 <Pcubensis[m]> well shit
20:55:50 <Pcubensis[m]> My VPS has 130 lol
20:56:20 <Pcubensis[m]> I guess there is no way to prune mid sync, or anyway to prune before filling?
20:56:45 <plowsof11> pruning mid sync will 'expand' the used disk space by 'what you currently have += 50gb' 
20:56:59 <smathy[m]> Not an expert, but I believe if you set up pruning before your first sync then it'll do what you want.
20:57:10 <plowsof11> you may be better off deleting everything and starting from scratch with --prune-blockchain
20:58:13 <Pcubensis[m]> So just monerod --detach --prune-blockchain?
20:58:16 <Pcubensis[m]> but how to delete the blockchain I've already started downloading?
20:58:32 <plowsof11> sorry, yes, ignore my comment about expanding - i was talking about 'pruning the entire lmdb file with the pruning tool'
20:59:15 <smathy[m]> But it won't make the DB any smaller right?  Just will reuse existing allocation with new blocks?
21:00:35 <plowsof11> yeah wont get smaller switching to --prune-blockchain (only thereafter)
21:00:38 <plowsof11> delete the .bitmonero folder if you want to start from scratch with --prune-blockchain
21:01:02 <Pcubensis[m]> And juts to be clear once i sync with prune it will be <141 GB?
21:01:11 <plowsof11> 50~60
21:01:26 <Pcubensis[m]> Does that hurt privacy?
21:01:35 <someoneelse49549> plowsof11: 54.7 Gb for me
21:01:57 <someoneelse49549> Pcubensis[m]: nope
21:02:09 <monerobull[m]1> I think it could make syncing your wallet slower 
21:02:10 <Pcubensis[m]> someoneelse49549: what exaclty is it doing?
21:02:16 <monerobull[m]1> Since you'll have to pull blocks from other nodes
21:02:34 <smathy[m]> Impact is that your node can't contribute to verifications.
21:02:49 <Pcubensis[m]> monerobull[m]1: Hmm, well maybe i'll just add more storage
21:03:09 <Rucknium[m]> smathy: This is not correct AFAIK
21:03:12 <Pcubensis[m]> How quickly does the chain grow. Like within a year how big will it get?
21:03:16 <plowsof11> if i point my wallet at my pruned node - my wallet isnt going to talk to other nodes
21:03:43 <Pcubensis[m]> plowsof11: what if it has to query very old blocks?
21:03:47 <monerobull[m]1> 500gb ssds are like 30$. I got a used one for 20 for my rockpi
21:04:26 <Pcubensis[m]> monerobull[m]1: never seen one that cheap before
21:04:26 <monerobull[m]1> plowsof11: But your node is
21:04:27 <Pcubensis[m]> where'd you get it?
21:04:32 <smathy[m]> Rucknium[m]: Ah, sorry.  Got ahead of myself.
21:04:35 <Rucknium[m]> P. cubensis: It doesn't remove old blocks. It removes proofs and signatures, but not the main data that is necessary for continuing to act as a node.
21:04:43 <monerobull[m]1> From some teenager on German craigslist 
21:04:57 <Rucknium[m]> And it removes just 7/8th of the proofs and signatures
21:05:04 <plowsof11> a pruned node is like any other, it just bins (pls confirm) 7/8ths? of data 
21:05:27 <Pcubensis[m]> monerobull[m]1: haha, well this is for vps so i just gotta pay like $2 usd extra for like 50gb
21:05:40 <smathy[m]> Ahh, sorry, this is what I was thinking of:
21:05:40 <smathy[m]> > The drawback is that you will contribute less to Monero P2P network in terms of helping new nodes to sync up (up to 1/8 of normal contribution).
21:06:02 <monerobull[m]1> Pcubensis[m]: Oh i see 
21:06:02 <someoneelse49549> > <@smathy:matrix.org> Ahh, sorry, this is what I was thinking of:
21:06:02 <someoneelse49549> > > The drawback is that you will contribute less to Monero P2P network in terms of helping new nodes to sync up (up to 1/8 of normal contribution).
21:06:02 <someoneelse49549> a
21:06:16 <Pcubensis[m]> how fast does blockchain grow?
21:06:19 <Rucknium[m]> https://www.getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/pruning.html
21:06:23 <Rucknium[m]> ^ Read this
21:06:38 <someoneelse49549> Pcubensis[m]: f a s t
21:06:40 <Rucknium[m]> "'Pruning' allows node operators to save 2/3 of storage space while keeping the full transaction history. Pruning works by removing 7/8 of unnecessary ring signature data. The 1/8 remaining data will be available to the other nodes and will be used to sync with the network. Other pruned nodes will have a random 1/8 of the data, which they will also make available to the network. There are no privacy or security downsides when using a pruned
21:06:40 <Rucknium[m]> node."
21:07:36 <Pcubensis[m]> Rucknium[m]: ty, but how does 1/8 of ring sigs = saving 100GB?
21:07:52 <Rucknium[m]> P. cubensis: It's 7/8th
21:07:58 <Pcubensis[m]> oh wait 7/8 my b
21:08:33 <Pcubensis[m]> ok, i'm gonna try pruning for now and see how it goes.
21:08:48 <Rucknium[m]> P. cubensis: If what you are doing is mission-critical, then be careful about blockchain size growth predictions since if transaction volume increases rapidly then the block size would increase rapidly.
21:09:26 <Pcubensis[m]> Rucknium[m]: xmr doesn't have fixed block size?
21:09:34 <someoneelse49549> Pcubensis[m]: no it's a feature
21:09:50 <someoneelse49549> blocks can dynamically grow
21:10:16 <someoneelse49549> based on the number of transactions in the pool
21:10:55 <Rucknium[m]> It's not really the number of txs in the pool. It's the number (and size) of the txs confirmed by miners. 
21:12:02 <someoneelse49549> mb
21:12:03 <Pcubensis[m]> oh ok, well i'm just experimenting, if the vps fills i'll just make a new one
21:12:22 <plowsof11> if using linux vps type df -lh
21:14:52 <Pcubensis[m]> where is .bitmonero folder?
21:16:12 <icarolongo[m]> Paying Uber with Monero in São Paulo, Brazil:
21:16:12 <icarolongo[m]> https://yewtu.be/watch?v=o7yt1Ttrah0
21:17:10 <Rucknium[m]> P. cubensis: In your user's home folder probably.
21:17:45 <plowsof11> P. cubensis: wrong window, you meant to use a search engine for that question
21:18:18 <Pcubensis[m]> Rucknium[m]: hmm must have just deleted it when i ctrl+c'd the sync
21:18:39 <Rucknium[m]> That would be very unlikely
21:19:10 <kowalabearhugs-4> <Pcubensis[m]> "how fast does blockchain grow?" <- This table charts historic monthly growth: https://localmonero.co/blocks/stats/blockchain-growth
21:20:11 <Rucknium[m]> kowalabearhugs-: I don't think that data is correct. At least, it's not total size of the database file on disk.
21:20:29 <Pcubensis[m]> nvm it was in /root/.bitmonero
21:20:33 <plowsof11> why didnt the blockchain have any growth between 1970 and 2014 
21:21:32 <Rucknium[m]> P. cubensis: You started monerod as root? Not recommended.
21:22:01 <Pcubensis[m]> hmm, i can't connect to the daemon unless i sudo
21:23:23 <someoneelse49549> plowsof11: bandwith issues i guess
21:24:02 <plowsof11> probably yeah.. hard drives got cheaper too probably
21:24:17 <kowalabearhugs-4> Rucknium[m]: Yaaa, I believe that might list the raw data and it doesn't take into consideration additional database elements. The actual file size on disk will vary depending on OS and filesystem.
21:25:17 <someoneelse49549> yeah but floppy disk was good too
21:25:21 <someoneelse49549> I mean a 4MB blockchain was a thing
21:25:22 <Pcubensis[m]> * @Rucknium hmm, i
21:28:51 <monerobull[m]1> I'm still not sure if this could work with the chain https://foliophotonics.com/
21:29:22 <monerobull[m]1> The readers are still like 5k but the storage itself is 3$ per TB
21:30:00 <monerobull[m]1> If the readers get a lot cheaper that would be nice
21:30:57 <monerobull[m]1> I think tapes like this are one-time write but a Blockchain should be the perfect application for that, no?
21:31:48 <someoneelse49549> You want to archive the blockchain in a long-term storage system so it could never be lost over time? sounds good to me
21:31:50 <monerobull[m]1> I know there are reorgs from time to time but I'm sure you could keep the last 10 blocks in ram or on SSD before saving to tape
21:32:36 <monerobull[m]1> someoneelse49549: Nah it's just that if the readers get cheaper, we could save decades of Blockchain for like 10$
21:32:52 <monerobull[m]1> So nodes would only be limited by bandwidth 
21:33:34 <monerobull[m]1> Not sure how practical this is. I've never used tapes before 
21:33:55 <someoneelse49549> monerobull[m]1: it's like paper but more modern and without paper
21:34:16 <someoneelse49549> anyway it'll be slow for write operations
21:34:30 <monerobull[m]1> True
21:34:30 <someoneelse49549> it's like the mean of a tape
21:34:45 <monerobull[m]1> Hm
21:35:13 <monerobull[m]1> There should still be times with lower demand, right
21:35:23 <monerobull[m]1> Cache during daytime in ssd and slowly write to tape over the course of the day
21:36:31 <someoneelse49549> If Monero (or any other cryptoccurency) get to that level of investement to save its database. I think daytime will be as active as night, depending of where you are
21:36:31 <Rucknium[m]> Daytime where? Anyway, I think LMDB won't work well with tape.
21:36:45 <someoneelse49549> HSE on the way
21:36:50 <plowsof11> the dark side of the moon 
21:37:10 <monerobull[m]1> Rucknium[m]: US & EU i guess
21:37:15 <monerobull[m]1> There should be at least some hours with less traffic 
21:37:47 <monerobull[m]1> Anyways, SSD storage is getting cheaper and cheaper anyways, tapes are probably massive overkill with bad performance 
21:38:07 <someoneelse49549> theorically the hours where the country with the highest bandwith are in the dark
21:38:28 <someoneelse49549> monerobull[m]1: SSD use some materials like silver that are going to be rare
21:39:46 <someoneelse49549> It can't get cheaper for long imo
21:39:46 <monerobull[m]1> We can mine the trash dumps for discarded electronics ;)
21:40:01 <plowsof11> do ssd's use silver? (i know cpu's use gold)
21:40:51 <Rucknium[m]> Will silver start to quantum-tunnel out of existence? I don't see a silver supply crunch on the horizon, but I may be wrong.
21:41:09 <someoneelse49549> plowsof11: iirc yes but i'm gonna check to be sure
21:44:38 <someoneelse49549> can't be sure for ssd, but it is widely used for printed circuits.
21:44:40 <someoneelse49549> * printed circuits in general.