00:10:54 <caveman> anarkiocrypto[m]: how does what's suggested in the link protect against the government?  e.g. is it based on the assumption that clients/business owners are not spies/sold-out people?
00:15:25 <anarkiocrypto[m]> The link contains strategies that work for me in practice for 10+ years (necessary, because I can't get ID: https://agorism.blog/anarkio/roadblocks-to-obtaining-government-id) as well as some untested concepts (sadly I don't have the funds nor connections to develop these).
00:15:57 <anarkiocrypto[m]> There is no guarantee about any of these strategies, but it is the only way I have been able to survive so far.
00:16:33 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Second Realms and Agorist Primer have more info about opsec:
00:16:34 <anarkiocrypto[m]> https://ia801807.us.archive.org/34/items/second-realm-digital/Second%20Realm%20Paperback%20New.pdf
00:16:34 <anarkiocrypto[m]> https://kopubco.com/pdf/An_Agorist_Primer_by_SEK3.pdf
00:17:54 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Also this book looks good (but I didn't read it yet):
00:17:54 <anarkiocrypto[m]> https://hackyourself.io/product/cryptocurrencies-hack-your-way-to-a-better-life/
00:20:37 <caveman> anarkiocrypto[m]: is it legal in, say, u.s.a. to deliver packages for people without knowing what's in the package?
00:26:02 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I don't know about laws (it is "illegal" for me to exist in any country sadly...). I don't think senders need to disclose what is in the package, unless it goes through customs, but even then, DNM vendors successfully use stealth packaging (real product is hidden inside a legal product).
00:28:11 <caveman> i'm not trying to exchange an illegal product (e.g. drugs), but rather a legal one (e.g. meat, cheese, etc).
00:29:32 <caveman> so, in my case, the package is legal.  it's just that a guy is shipping some edible item from a farm to an end-user, without having payment bills (because they paid it in monero, bitcoin, etc)
00:31:55 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Not sure how you would keep meat or cheese cool while shipping (unless it is dried/cured/aged).
00:32:23 <caveman> say, powder form milk.
00:32:32 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Unless you mean within the same city.
00:32:40 <caveman> also, suppose that the truck has cooling and is loaded with cheese.  but without a bill.  will the government object?
00:33:08 <caveman> say, inter-city.
00:33:31 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I don't think post offices care about invoices (unless it is international, i.e. customs).
00:33:54 <caveman> not even between states within u.s.a.?
00:34:20 <anarkiocrypto[m]> In the situation: Farmer -> anonymous shipper -> customer, only the farmer, shipper and customer would know about the transaction.
00:34:49 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I don't live in the US but I would assume shipping between states is still domestic (no customs).
00:35:13 <caveman> say that a police stopped the anonymous shipper's truck, which is loaded with cheese, yet he has no bill.  is this legal in u.s.a. if caught between two different states?
00:36:02 <caveman> can the shipper say:  i'm a common friend of the farmer who is sending a gift of cheese to his buddy for free (instead of trashing it cause he made too much cheese)?
00:36:15 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I don't think cops would raid random vehicles in the US. But you should probably ask someone who knows more about this.
00:37:05 <anarkiocrypto[m]> In my situation there is sadly nothing I could "say" to cops, as my existence is "illegal" (the state refuses to print ID for me, while it is also illegal to not have ID).
00:37:10 <caveman> the u.s. is large, and if inter-state deliveries are permitted without tax bills/invoices, for legal goods (e.g. cheese, meat, etc), then i think they can trade tax-lessly.
00:37:24 <caveman> would you like to say where are you from?
00:37:35 <caveman> or which state is it that refuses to print ID for you?
00:37:57 <anarkiocrypto[m]> A large part of agorism is avoiding taxes, regulations, permits, etc. More info: https://anarkio.codeberg.page/agorism
00:38:08 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I live in Europe. More info here: https://agorism.blog/anarkio/roadblocks-to-obtaining-government-id
00:38:53 <anarkiocrypto[m]> People with similar problems: https://www.statelessness.eu/blog/each-person-left-living-streets-we-are-losing-society https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/still-stateless-still-suffering-its-time-for-european-leaders-to-take-action/
00:39:36 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Maybe this would interest you: https://freedomcells.org/cells/cbdc-opt-out-challenge-private-group-for-challenge-participants/ There is info about starting agorist businesses with crypto.
00:40:30 <caveman>  requiers a sign up?
00:41:22 <anarkiocrypto[m]> You can enter a disposable email address and fake name.
00:42:43 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Here are the videos: https://livefree.academy/day-4-buy-and-sell-goods-and-services-in-underground-markets-the-free-5-day-cbdc-opt-out-challenge/ The discussions are on the Freedom Cells website.
00:43:46 <caveman> how can that ensure that i don't meet a government spy?
01:35:18 <as2333> freedomcells looks interesting but it also looks like a typical honeypot...
01:35:25 <apotheon> yep
01:35:42 <apotheon> It lacks even the most basic privacy in most of its community resources.
01:38:02 <apotheon> Even so, the Freedom Cells network does actually share some useful info sometimes.
01:38:52 <apotheon> 00:36 < anarkiocrypto[m]> I don't think cops would raid random vehicles in the US. But you should probably ask someone who knows more about this.
01:39:02 <apotheon> That's generally true if you aren't near an international border.
01:39:43 <apotheon> Large cargo vehicles get stopped a lot near the Mexican border, though, and if you're an obvious minority racial/ethnic type you are more likely to get pulled over.
01:40:11 <apotheon> A common rule of opsec is to not break more than one law at a time, so you don't get in trouble for a big law being broken because you got caught breaking a little law.
01:42:00 <caveman> as2333: is falling for a honeypot considered a legally strong-enough evidence of tax evasion?  e.g. can the business owner say ``it was a coincidence that i shipped you for "free" 30 minutes after you paid someone in monero''?
01:43:56 <as2333> caveman I don't know...
01:44:53 <as2333> this is funny
01:44:54 <as2333> https://freedomcells.org/privacy-policy/
01:45:19 <as2333> they tell you to "use a degoogled phone"
01:45:35 <as2333> "Use encrypted messaing like XMPP (not government funded Signal)"
01:45:57 <as2333> while at the same time admiting their own site uses all kind of 'third party' spyware
01:46:36 <as2333> for instance : hCaptcha - Inherently, these bot prevention systems do capture personal data, such as your IP address, browser type, ISP, device, operating system, and date/timestamp - duh
01:49:00 <BobSacmanto[m]> as2333: do u know any alternative to hcaptcha and recaptcha?
01:49:28 <as2333> BobSacmanto[m] of course - use your own 
01:49:46 <BobSacmanto[m]> as2333: your own what?
01:49:53 <as2333> your own 'captcha'
01:50:24 <BobSacmanto[m]> as2333: You expect me to spend days making my own captcha
01:50:32 <as2333> lawl
01:51:03 <BobSacmanto[m]> That like saying to someone to build your own cryptocurrency since bitcoin sucks and has no privacy instead of using monero or another privacy coin
01:51:32 <as2333> BobSacmanto[m] you've nothing better to do than trying to troll me?
01:52:04 <caveman> BobSacmanto[m]: if you're so easy to give up on making your own captcha, then why not also give up and use fiat?
01:52:10 <BobSacmanto[m]> as2333: I was asking you if you actually knew of an alfernative. Didnt think you would be a dick
01:53:29 <as2333> BobSacmanto[m] I actually wrote a captcha for php once - took me half an hour. But I'm sure you can find tons of ready made stuff.
01:53:29 <plowsof11> how to make a captcha: no matter the user input, make it fail at least 2 times then allow the user to proceed even if its wrong 
01:57:05 <caveman> ^ how google's captcha works.  pathetic.
02:00:51 <as2333> the capcha where you're supposed to click parts of an image containing something doesnt even make sense to me.
02:06:08 <caveman> a captcha that requires javascript.  eww.
02:07:57 <caveman> honeypots are a real challenge.  as soon as a resources emerges as a famous point for people to gather and trade, government can stick its nose to buy some goods only to capture businesses that are trading there to charge them with 'tax evasion' or 'unlicensed selling'.
02:11:47 <caveman> i think the cheapest solution is:  to have a few secret groups of people manage autonomous drones with large enough quantities, that operate randomly enough, many times picking and dropping fake goods, only to make it harder for the government to trace 'real' orders.  when it becomes hard enough for the government to exhaust them, we've won.
02:13:18 <caveman> there are already 'gangs' that smuggle illegal goods.  can they be incentivised to engage in smuggling legal goods?  their reward would be getting paid in monero/bitcoin/etc.
02:14:03 <caveman> by having them randomly pick and drop random goods, many of which are fake, it'd be harder to identify the real orders from the fake ones.
02:19:59 <caveman> i think making this anonymous delivery work is only a matter of two points (1) define a sane protocol, (2) assign the the right amount of monetary rewards to give the delivery agents the incentives to do a good job.
02:20:38 <caveman> once this system takes off, the business cycle for cryptocurrencies will complete:  you can buy/sell anonymously end-to-end.  when this happens, trade will increase on cryptocurrencies, essentially boosting the value of all cryptocurrencies.
02:20:41 <as2333> caveman one problem is that instead of say trying to trace deliviers, the government can just put some people in jail.
02:20:50 <as2333> deliveries*
02:21:42 <as2333> caveman they don't need to break your protocol, just threaten the users
02:21:59 <caveman> who would be those people?  and how would the government identify them?
02:22:17 <caveman> but, how can they know that the person is a user, and not someone randomly picking an item and going around?
02:25:18 <caveman> as2333: it is possible to identify users, but if we set the reward to be high enough, what would happen is that the market would converge towards a community-based intelligence system that avoids honeypots.
02:25:30 <caveman> reward = delivery rewards.
02:26:27 <caveman> individuals pay a lot of money for taxation, then a lot of their money gets robbed by the central bank inflating the fiat.  if they divert a fraction of that theft to reward delivery agents, this would a large enough money in my view to fight the government.
02:26:33 <L29Ah> caveman: ban drones and shoot them on sight/jail everyone interacting with them, problem solved
02:27:17 <caveman> at high enough cost, we can manage enough people to fly random drones to exhaust the government.  i think it is a lot harder to shoot drones, as opposed to make drones that fly randomly.
02:27:42 <L29Ah> ammo is cheaper than drones
02:28:18 <caveman> yes, but also consider the man power.  how many police officers would be called to stand in position to hunt drones?  they can be exhausted.
02:29:19 <caveman> the police barely chases thieves.  now if they get a new mission to hunt random drones, i think this by itself would be a clever trick to troll the government into an exhaustive war, without having to get a bullet from them.
02:29:29 <L29Ah> and most drones have <1h of autonomous operation, so it's trivial to seize them while they refuel
02:31:02 <caveman> a base can be pre-setup on roofs, in a way to let them re-charge autonomously.  all while having the owners claim not knowing.  e.g. a simple recharging station that is hacked off, say, AC/heater/etc electricity wires that go into houses.
02:31:34 <caveman> of course, the house owners may know, and they might be getting paid in monero.  but they could repudiate i guess ``oh we got robbed, thanks for finding that illegal charging station off my house's roof!''
02:31:48 <as2333> hehe
02:32:43 <caveman> imo not that expensive when considering the fact that people are people lots of trillions in tax and inflation.  this approach would free them from taxation and fiat's artificial inflation, at the expense of diverting a fraction of that otherwise stolen money into those charging stations and drones.
02:33:00 <caveman> s/people are people/people are paying/
02:33:41 <plowsof11> what are we delivering again 
02:33:49 <nioc> catnip
02:35:52 <as2333> caveman yes, that observation is pretty correct in general. The amounts stolen by govcorp are insane, and if we could invest a percentage of that in defense and stop the theft, the gains would be enormous. But it's easier said than done. 
02:36:08 <plowsof11> what if cats could fly drones and deliver their catnip 
02:38:03 <caveman> plowsof11: normal goods.  i'm against drugs, alcohol, etc, also against not paying fees for services that we use (e.g. military, hospitals, roads, etc).  i just want the government to ask for bills honestly in a /direct/ way, but asking, say, annual military fees or whatever.  enough with this indirect payments (taxation/inflation).
02:39:00 <caveman> as2333: have you seen my initial draft for a protocol?  very rough and initial, but has some foundations in cryptography that enforces some structure to delivery routes.
02:39:26 <L29Ah> ok i need 10t of manure for my little farm, where can i subscribe for a drone delivery and how much does it cost?
02:39:48 <as2333> caveman just took a look.
02:40:59 <as2333> yeah if it's delivery of normal goods, it has to be normal and expesive goods...
02:41:02 <caveman> thing is, while i'm pessimistic in general, i think this is very doable.  and the rewards are enormous in several ways.  one of which is:  if it succeeds, the value of cryptocurrencies would jump, hence a greater value for those who already own cryptocurrencies.  even though i personally don't own any yet.
02:41:56 <caveman> my main motive is the intrinsic value of the system (anonymous deliveries).  
03:05:29 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: hey folks is it enough to break up bitcoin by swapping BTC for XMR then at another time swapping the XM into a new BTC wallet?
03:06:47 <plowsof11> no
03:07:29 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: hey folks is it enough to break up bitcoin by swapping BTC for XMR then at another time swapping the XMR into a new BTC wallet?
03:08:08 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: dANBs,  why not by the way i don't like using BTC i am a monero man...but certain places only take BTC
03:08:27 <dANBs[m]> * why not? by
03:09:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> So pay them using a swap serviceb
03:09:42 <plowsof11> why dont you like using btc
03:09:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or tell them youll take your business elsewhere 
03:09:52 <grndslm> only thing I could see wrong with it is the tax man would expect you to require capital gains/loss for each conversion
03:10:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who?
03:10:22 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: oh this is bridged chat lolz
03:10:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, stop trying to hide your forex trading
03:10:42 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: >why don't you like using btc
03:10:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero is money, not a Bitcoin cleaner 
03:10:51 <caveman> as2333: my expectation is that, once the protocol runs, it'd initially result into some imprisonments, but eventually as the market agrees on a higher delivery fees to offset imprisonment risks, communities would evolve accordingly with whatever it takes to not get caught, up to a point the government has no option but to give up.
03:10:54 <caveman> the only thing is:  get the algorithm right to allow for this evolution to start.
03:11:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> ......
03:11:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-offtopic:monero.social I think lmao
03:11:52 <plowsof11> whats wrong with btc? :S 
03:12:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sir, its perfect 
03:12:23 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: cause you can look up how much is in each wallet on the blockchain ad amount spent etc and the obvious privacy concerns....if only the truckers in canada (all politics aside) where using XMR and not BTC they would have had a better time
03:12:26 <caveman> as2333: ultimately, it'd be apparently for the government that it is a lot cheaper for it to simply ask for annual fees to pay for its expenses (military, nasa, roads, etc) than to take it indirectly (taxation and inflation).  if a person refuses to pay his/her expenses, they can be expelled from the nation.
03:12:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> caveman:  that sounds like something a caveman would say
03:12:32 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: yes monero is money
03:12:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Truckers are dumb
03:12:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> The protest was fake 
03:12:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Use your heads.
03:13:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> All that money and nobody would whisper "xmr". Everybody who thought they were doing something, were just being a distraction from actual issues 
03:14:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its embarrassing to pretend like the organizers didnt know about moneron
03:14:03 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: >also i'm not doing anything wrong but i like to keep my payments clean-ish ..i didn' have to show ID to get the BTC but used a mobile app from ATM
03:14:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> They used gofundme and got robbed on OURPOSE 
03:14:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Still, you hear about truckers and moneron
03:14:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> But not from truckers
03:15:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> You want them to use it? Go talk to them!
03:15:36 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: >politics aside 
03:15:48 <grndslm> I like monero and all... but i've heard that running your own lightning node could make transactions even more private than ring transactions on a public blockchain...
03:15:49 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: yes monero is not a Bitcoin cleaner
03:15:50 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: i get that
03:15:50 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: just curious how they could track swaps
03:16:22 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: besides timing attacks
03:16:22 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: and amount
03:16:23 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: >politics aside 
03:16:23 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: i get that
03:16:23 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: yes monero is not a Bitcoin cleaner
03:16:23 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: just curious how they could track swaps
03:16:30 <plowsof11> do you run your own lightning node? 
03:16:36 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: no
03:18:44 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: I like the real meaning of crypto that is transactions u don't have to ask for permission from a central bank or third party like paypal for example
03:18:57 <as2333> the truckers didnt use btc either
03:19:07 <plowsof11> ive read stories of people using / accepting payments in LN and having money vanish (if we ignore chan analysis 'announcing' support for it, not sure if thats true either) 
03:19:16 <as2333> they used some piece-of-shit website
03:19:31 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: which BTC is supposed to be not a pump n dump
03:19:32 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: https://bitcoindynamic.com/news/bitcoin-linked-to-truckers-protest-seized-by-ottawa-police/
03:20:04 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: why do u folks use Matrix?
03:20:24 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: or fake trix
03:21:14 <grndslm> i think Raspiblitz and Umbrel make running LN nodes relatively easy, but haven't gotten around to running them myself.  Inscriptions might start cutting into the semi-profitable nature of running a node..??  have been out of the loop for too long
03:21:17 <plowsof11> fees are really cheap right now, only 80 cents, not bad
03:21:23 <plowsof11> on btc
03:22:15 <grndslm> https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC,24h,fee
03:22:31 <grndslm> IMHO, Inscriptions are fucking up Bitcoin's monetary use-case
03:22:41 <as2333> oh I missed the btc side of it - thanks for the link
03:24:53 <anarkiocrypto[m]> > if a person refuses to pay his/her expenses, they can be expelled from the nation.
03:24:53 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Where would this person go? Sadly there is no country that accepts anyone indiscriminately...
03:28:54 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: so how can they track my swaps?
03:29:09 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: vice versa
03:29:59 <grndslm> just send me your BTC, and I'll send you 2x its worth in XMR!
03:30:07 <grndslm> problem solved
03:30:21 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: >2x
03:30:26 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: >not bait
03:30:34 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: ;)
03:31:36 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: thoughts on monero market?....thinkg about selling an old laptop (no hdd)
03:31:46 <dANBs[m]> s/thinkg/thinking/
03:32:06 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: grndslm i will send u btc for feet pics and xmr
03:36:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> <as2333> "the truckers didnt use btc..." <- They did
03:37:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://bitcoindynamic.com/news/bitcoin-linked-to-truckers-protest-seized-by-ottawa-police/
03:37:05 <grndslm> dANBs[m], I'll send feet pics first for half the BTC.  Will send the XMR after that!
03:37:06 <grndslm> https://www.google.com/search?q=feet&tbm=isch
03:37:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> I missed that this was already posted 
03:37:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-offtopic:monero.social 
03:38:12 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: also what are peopls thoughts on https://invidious.sethforprivacy.com/watch?v=xGEBRQU1lzw
03:38:21 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: Seraphis/Jamtis
03:38:51 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: is any word on the possible updates on this
03:41:57 <as2333> "The Justice decided to return the amount of 0.28 BTC" (that they stole) - funny
03:50:20 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: https://archive.org/details/CensoredIsraeliSoftwareSpyingOnUSAmDocsComverseInfosysCarlCameronDec2001
03:50:21 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: https://telecoms.com/418812/amdocs-acquires-comverse-bss-business-for-272m/
03:50:21 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: https://www.nuegia.net/articles/matrix.xhtml
03:50:58 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=1YbpKeWBwa0
03:51:05 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: http://hackeavw7lge3rj7vwfewaaid7akgmys2vlqggeirtorcg5g6zoawzqd.onion/notas/matrix.html
03:52:06 <dANBs[m]> 80211[xmpp]: >uses matrix to discuss Monero updates
04:12:57 <grndslm> dANBs[m], i've watched been halfway watching that Seraphis/Jamtis update video.... and it's upsetting there's so many cons
04:13:46 <grndslm> i'm at the "New Addresses" point of the video, moving from base-58 to base-32... and just wanna SMH
04:15:05 <nioc> pros outweigh cons by a huge margin 
04:15:30 <grndslm> new addresses are supposed to be like 120 characters long!!  but they're "easier".  i've actually had to manually copy addresses a couple times before, and it was already a pain in the ass
04:16:15 <caveman> <L29Ah> ok i need 10t of manure for my little farm, where can i subscribe for a drone delivery and how much does it cost? 
04:16:16 <caveman> i don't think it exists yet.  so far at least i'm working on a draft for a protocol that, if implemented with the right incentives, would allow the eventual evolution of the community towards that as a matter of time.  the harder the government presses to oppose, the higher the delivery costs (still cheaper than getting robbed by taxation/inflation), and the harder the community of delivery agents
04:16:20 <caveman> will try to not get caught (as we will pay them more in monero/btc/etc).
04:16:36 <caveman> L29Ah: the early rough draft so far https://codeberg.org/ideas/delivery 
04:16:37 <nioc> use the CLI and always C&P, so easy 
04:18:05 <nioc> mobile wallet also easy to C&P, QR code even easier 
10:23:50 <chown> when I try and run my gui wallet I am getting this error
10:24:00 <chown> Cannot mix incompatible Qt library (5.15.8) with this library (5.15.7)
10:24:06 <chown> and then it aborts
10:24:09 <chown> What do?
10:24:22 <chown> I'm trying to rebuild qt5
10:24:30 <chown> rn but I dunno if that will work
10:24:33 <moneromooo> Do you have two versions of Qt installed ?
10:24:41 <chown> No
10:24:43 <moneromooo> It might be finding the headers of one with the libs of another.
10:25:07 <moneromooo> Did you update Qt recently ? If you did, you'd likely have to rebuild all of the GUI.
10:25:20 <chown> oh?
10:25:28 <moneromooo> ah!
10:25:32 <chown> I do my updates en mass so it's likely the aur updated it 
10:25:46 <chown> I mean I have the cli but that is giving me errors too
10:25:50 <chown> When I try and send my monero out
10:26:41 <moneromooo> Minor version bumps should be backward compatible when run, but you still need to build all the files in a project with the same version.
10:26:52 <moneromooo> So it sounds like this isn't your problem.
10:27:07 <chown> ???
10:27:13 <chown> oh I see
10:27:17 <moneromooo> Only if you built the GUI, then updated Qt, then built parts of the GUI again.
10:27:25 <chown> So minor incompatability issues shouldn't be doing this
10:30:31 <chown> What is the package name of the gui client in the AUR?
12:56:26 <cockliuser[m]> Has there been an implementation of BTC -> XMR atomic swaps in a language other than Rust? 
13:01:19 <monerobull[m]> Yup 
13:01:53 <monerobull[m]> Plowsof was it java?
13:02:45 <monerobull[m]> The guy who made it could quite possible be long dead though 
13:02:53 <plowsof11> oh right, the monero-javascript one 🥹 that just used the comit one as a backend iirc
13:03:19 <monerobull[m]> Kayaba had fun looking at it
13:03:32 <monerobull[m]> I still had it in my browser history, only reason I found it
13:04:54 <monerobull[m]> monerobull[m]: He said a lot of stuff about it that i didn't understand. Not sure if the final verdict was "insecure" or not
13:04:54 <plowsof11> wait, there was a hardfork? * disappears * 
13:05:04 <monerobull[m]> *drafted
13:05:19 <monerobull[m]> Oh god
13:05:28 <monerobull[m]> He was ordered to make it by putin
13:05:42 <monerobull[m]> So they could atomic swap to circumvent sanctions 
13:06:01 <monerobull[m]> And not realizing there was a hardfork is what got him sent to Ukraine 😪
13:06:52 <cockliuser[m]> plowsof11: comit as backend 🫠
13:06:52 <monerobull[m]> (speculation)
13:07:16 <cockliuser[m]> I wonder why the golang people haven't picked up on it yet
13:14:40 <plowsof11> because alice never sends her monero in time 💢
15:39:10 <x199D2> .
17:52:46 <chown> when I try and send money out I get "could not create transaction could not obtain output distribution"
17:52:53 <chown> what do
17:53:37 <plowsof11> remote node local node 
17:54:57 <chown> it's  local node
17:57:22 <chown> Here's a more detailed explination of the error
17:57:25 <chown> https://bpa.st/ZZ7NY
18:00:03 <moneromooo> Try moving the wallet cache away (eg, if your wallet is FOO.keys: mv FOO FOO.backup) while the wallet program is not running.
18:00:40 <chown> I fixed it
18:00:55 <moneromooo> What was the problem ?
18:00:56 <chown> For some reason after I rebuilt the qt5 package yesterday it turned my wallet on to simple mode
18:01:31 <moneromooo> Oh, that's the one where it auto uses some stranger's node, right ?
18:02:29 <moneromooo> selsta: line 9 in the paste above looks iffy.
18:03:11 <selsta> chown: it does not automatically select simple mode
18:03:27 <selsta> if you don't have a config it asks you which mode
18:03:36 <selsta> you can change the wallet mode in the main menu
18:04:38 <selsta> moneromooo: line 9 is unrelated, that warning always shows up
18:07:49 <chown> Oh well now it doesn't matter I guess cause I sent to low an ammount to changely by mistake
18:08:00 <chown> And now the exchange is just sitting in limbo
18:08:04 <chown> Because the exchange fee
18:09:08 <moneromooo> I think it still warrants fixing.
18:17:04 <chown> yeah they fixed it
18:17:06 <chown> cool
18:17:34 <chown> Thank you for the support
18:41:03 <selsta> haven't figured out yet how to fix this warning :/
18:41:11 <selsta> the code that causes this seems to exist since 2016
19:00:21 <MaddieKalan> Could someone please explain to me why I get 1000 lines saying something similar to this "2023-02-11 18:58:49.975 I [185.240.242.36:18080 OUT] 172 bytes received for category command-1002 initiated by peer" every second, when i set the log level to 1...
19:02:19 <MaddieKalan> https://i.kalli.st/KtVAU.mkv
19:02:59 <MaddieKalan> It was slow in the begining but you know like how something always works when you need to show someone its broken? but then it sped up.
19:05:17 <selsta> are you having a specific issue? or do you just want to know what this log means?
19:07:22 <L29Ah> i have stacktraces in my log every now and then, is this a normal behavior?
19:07:45 <L29Ah> 2023-02-11 18:48:14.136	[P2P8]	INFO	stacktrace	src/common/stack_trace.cpp:133	Exception: boost::wrapexcept<boost::bad_weak_ptr>
19:07:53 <selsta> if you have compiled yourself yes
19:08:42 <selsta> basically this issue https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/8341
19:29:26 <MaddieKalan> selsta: the problem is i want to have logs enabled but i dont want it to spit out a million lines, i just want it to tell me the sync state really (i thing i might beable to tell monerod to only log syncs actually?)
19:30:45 <selsta> is your node fully synced up?
19:37:57 <moneromooo> That looks like a bug. This log is enabled at level 2. Did you change the code ?
19:38:48 <moneromooo> And are you really very extra sure you set the log level to 1, and not something else ?
22:02:39 <caveman> does it make sense for a cryptocurrency to have built-in smart contracts?  or should it be an feature at a higher level/layer that's built-on top of the cryptocurrency?
22:06:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Define cryptocurrency 
22:07:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cryptographic currency, no
22:07:20 <plowsof11> peer to peer electronic cash 
22:07:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its selfexplanatory 
22:10:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should a cryptosecurity be confused with currency,? How about a cryptomuseum? Is that currency? 
22:10:39 <MaddieKalan> selsta: moneromooo yes, no, i use arch so whatever thay did? im going to slrrp now, sorry for the vonfusion,
22:10:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes no
22:11:13 <selsta> lol
22:11:16 <selsta> you can ignore it
22:13:07 <caveman> <ofrnxmr[m]> Define cryptocurrency  
22:13:08 <caveman> ^ "money".
22:51:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Money Is dumb by design 
23:04:19 <cockliuser[m]> I'm money :D
23:05:27 <L29Ah> cockliuser[m]: is it true that cock.li mail server uptime is under 0.8?
23:07:48 <cockliuser[m]> VC keeps getting perpetually arrested by authorities
23:09:33 <cockliuser[m]> Romania is like that
23:10:38 <L29Ah> nuffin in the blog :<
23:24:20 <cockliuser[m]> Yeah he's just cuckoo like that
23:25:09 <cockliuser[m]> But jokes aside, last downtime was about 2 weeks ago and haven't had problems with it since, service is usually pretty stable
23:42:44 <caveman> moneromooo: i thought of an incentive mechanism to make receivers confirm their reception:  a delivery agent is paid only when he (1) receivers and (2) delivers to the next hop delivery agent.  
23:42:46 <caveman> this makes them cooperate to help each other upload their reception proofs, as this rule goes on recursively; i.e. the receiver himself cannot paid after his delivery unless he 1st also confirms his reception.
23:42:48 <caveman> i suggest the same to apply even to the end receiver: he has to confirm receiving his own package in order to get paid by himself (otherwise some amount of his money would be indefinitely frozen unless he confirms).  only difference: end receiver doesn't have to send it to anyone else (optionally he can to be anonymous and indifferent than a delivery agent).