00:34:31 <BobSacmanto[m]> https://stackwallet.com/
00:34:31 <BobSacmanto[m]> Its a great fully open source wallet
00:55:52 <eudaimon36[m]> Hey guys: trying to export transfers from my CLI wallet. Giving this command: export_transfers [all] [2766000 [2766900]] [output=~/Desktop] It outputs: Error: bad min_height parameter: [all]
00:57:05 <eudaimon36[m]> seems to be ignoring the first option and thinking it is the second 
01:00:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Error: bad min_height parameter: [all]
01:07:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Remove the brackets 
10:14:15 <utis> is it possible to timestamp a document by adding a hash of it to the monero blockchain with a minimal transaction?  (how many arbitrary bytes can one get in in one transaction?)
10:16:37 <sech1> omg we actually found someone needing tx_extra
10:16:50 <moneromooo> Yes (cleartext payment ids are 256 bits, but obsolete), and max is a lot, technically, but discouraged. It also makes the tx stand out like a lighthouse.
10:17:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sure its possible 
10:17:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> 100kb iirc 
10:17:51 <hyc> he just wants to add the hash of the document, not the doc itself
10:18:50 <hyc> even a 64bit integrated payment ID would be enough for some hashing purposes
10:19:51 <sech1> 256 bits should be enough, even using one of outputs (stealth address) for this could work
10:19:59 <sech1> even without tx_extra
10:20:36 <moneromooo> These have to be points though, so you can only stuff 252 bits or so IIRC. Close enough if you add some tooling though.
10:21:27 <hyc> 1-in/2-outs, could split to 128 bits per output
10:21:27 <sech1> get 256-bit hash, convert it to point the same way Monero does, and use it
10:21:55 <hyc> to zero-valued outputs, 1 input for fee.
10:21:57 <sech1> this would require a dedicated script to check the document
10:21:59 <hyc> two*
10:24:01 <utis> sech1: what do you mean ``convert it to point . .''?
10:24:08 <hyc> and there's still the rangeproof that can stash some data
10:24:26 <sech1> I mean it's highly technical stuff and it will require wallet code modification
10:24:50 <sech1> there's no simple way to stuff random data in a transaction in any Monero wallet
10:24:50 <utis> so there's no easy way, then?
10:25:10 <moneromooo> None that hides the data from observers.
10:25:23 <utis> and you can't use the hash as the recipient address?
10:25:25 <hyc> was hiding even a requirement?
10:25:45 <moneromooo> For utis, it was not :)
10:26:14 <sech1> there's no recipient address in a transaction, only stealth address
10:26:34 <sech1> which you can use, but there are rules for it
10:26:35 <utis> i want this hash publicly visible and preferable findable by some webtool, by someone who hasn't downloaded the blockchain
10:26:46 <moneromooo> You could use that as a dest address, yes. Then you'd prove by releasing the secret keys, to prove the money was sent there.
10:27:20 <moneromooo> There's also some format rules there, not all hashes will be valid secret keys, but close enough. Still requires non trivial code modifications.
10:27:56 <hyc> why even bother to make it valid?
10:28:25 <moneromooo> So you can make a tx to that address, which creates the proof.
10:29:05 <moneromooo> Making it valid is just reduce32 though.
10:29:18 <sech1> if you want a block explorer to show your document hash for a transaction, it must be either tx_extra, or a stealth address
10:29:31 <sech1> tx_extra is easier but it will be probably removed in the future
10:30:07 <sech1> moneromooo he could update the document until its 256-bit hash is a valid point, not needing a reduce :)
10:30:17 <hyc> "it must be a steath address" - a block explorer isn't going to decode any of it.
10:30:22 <sech1> it should take 16-50 tries at most
10:30:34 <sech1> block explorer does show stealth addresses
10:30:39 <moneromooo> Good point :D
10:30:40 <hyc> any 256 bit number can be stuffed in there and would make no difference to the block explorer
10:30:45 <sech1> if a stealth address itself is a hash... then it will work
10:31:25 <moneromooo> If the document is editable though. Maybe you want to prove you saw an existing document at some time.
10:31:28 <sech1> do nodes even verify stealth addresses before broadcasting and/or mining a transaction?
10:31:45 <sech1> maybe you can just stuff anything there
10:31:57 <moneromooo> I think they have to be points from some early-ish fork.
10:32:28 <sech1> anyway, if it's not editable then you just need a special script to calculate this specific "hash" to make it valid
10:34:03 <moneromooo> And convince verifiers you're not trying to pull the wool over their eyes with these odd suspicious steps.
10:34:43 <hyc> I don't see what there is to verify. it'd be the same as burning coins.
10:35:14 <moneromooo> Well, if you want to prove something, it kinda implies someone is gonna verify that proof.
10:35:46 <hyc> if you simply want to prove "this document existed at this time" you don't need any txn proof
10:35:46 <moneromooo> And if the steps aren't straightforward, you need to convince them the steps are sound.
10:36:32 <moneromooo> Anyway, I think we've just taken the original problem and run with it for fun... 256 bit payment id is probably best here :D
10:36:51 <hyc> they're still allowed?
10:37:06 <moneromooo> Yes, anything is allowed. The wallet doesn't generate them anymore though.
10:40:18 <utis> payment id == destination address?  so if i send xmr to the hash, this will show up with a timestamp on exploremonero.com?
10:40:34 <sech1> it's not destination address
10:41:07 <sech1> but it does show up in block explorers
10:41:52 <utis> sounds good
11:19:24 <moneraut[m]> If you lookup an transaction on https://xmrchain.net you see all the “ring members” why do some of those 16 ring members have 0 ring size ?
11:19:56 <moneraut[m]> Bare with me, I am trying to learn more 😉
11:21:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Send a block hash or tx that has 0 rings
11:22:53 <moneromooo> Probably that the tx creating that output had rings of that size. Can't recall whwther all rings have to have the same size atm, but most txes will have equal ring sizes.
11:23:11 <moneromooo> 0 would be coinbase txes, 16 would be run off the mill txes.
11:23:28 <moneromooo> I expect old outputs will show 13, or even less.
11:24:15 <moneromooo> 0 is useful as a "dunno" or n/a value.
11:25:15 <moneromooo> Indeed, https://xmrchain.net/tx/58f81178901003b218ffe3eafa27b629a50c88e98f70c52d25b6a044551ece10 has a 11 ring size for its first member.
11:29:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, 0 ring size is coinbase outputs, a lot of which are p2pool these days.
11:29:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> The most ive seen is 5 in a ring - the tx moo send has 5 of those in a ring 
11:32:25 <moneraut[m]> I got it, so its directly from the miner
11:33:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/109
11:33:40 <moneraut[m]> Those 0 ring size are coinbase outputs. I couldn’t find any information / reading on this.
11:33:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> ^
11:34:11 <moneraut[m]> Thanks
11:35:09 <moneromooo> FWIW, coinbase txes have no rings.