12:29:41 <dANBs[m]> ZHOSKA[xmpp]: Then I do not know how it happens. Maybe there is a way to view GUI configs? I haven't set up anything on this device. Downloaded - I use it. Without settings.
12:29:41 <opsoyo[m]> <TWrecks[m]> "Hey does anyone here know of a..." <- Isn't Australia very hostile to crypto? 
12:29:58 <TWrecks[m]> Hey does anyone here know of a good reliable way to buy and sell Monero in Australia?
12:31:58 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo[m]: I don't know about crypto in general, but it's certainly hostile to Monero. We have a very powerful banking cartel infesting our politics.
12:31:58 <opsoyo[m]> Best bet from my POV would be to send cash out / product out, but shipping to and from Australia isn't cheap.  
12:32:24 <opsoyo[m]> I'm not sure many places respect AUD much either
12:33:53 <opsoyo[m]> So exchanging to something more approachable to the market would be an added cost from the seller or on your end.
12:34:13 <opsoyo[m]> It's possible digital goods could be exchanged with less of a hassle. 
12:39:35 <opsoyo[m]> TWrecks:  Depending on Australian laws, you could try to export precious metals as a way to mitigate fiat issues.  
12:43:13 <TWrecks[m]> Oh I mean I already have a fair bit of Monero, but I'm wondering if there's a better way to do it. Currently I'm buying ltc on binance, putting that into my cake wallet and swapping it for Monero. It's not ideal though.
12:43:14 <opsoyo[m]> TWrecks[m]: How do you mean "better"? Privacy or expediency? I'm fairly confident CEX remain the quickest and most convenient, unfortunately.  
12:43:14 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo: 
12:44:29 <opsoyo[m]> Kraken does allow direct XMR purchase if you are allowed to make an account
12:45:45 <opsoyo[m]> Yeah, the most optimal for covering all conditions is to mine it yourself. 
12:45:45 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo[m]: I mean that'd it would be very nice to exchange AUD for Monero directly, anonymously, quickly, safely and with fewer fees.
12:45:56 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo[m]: So does binance, but xmr trading is banned in Aus
12:45:57 <opsoyo[m]> That does leak power usage metadata
12:46:16 <opsoyo[m]> TWrecks[m]: For Aus citizens or by IP only? 
12:47:14 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo[m]: We're allowed to own it if that's what you're asking. Just trading it on a CEX is banned.
12:47:14 <opsoyo[m]> US citizens were using non-US Finance to avoid KYC by proxy/VPN for the longest time.
12:47:31 <opsoyo[m]> Same with Kucoin IIRC
12:47:32 <opsoyo[m]> s/Finance/Binance/
12:48:50 <TWrecks[m]> And it's illegal to use a VPN while using a CEX in Aus 
12:48:50 <opsoyo[m]> So, it is or isn't IP based?
12:48:51 <TWrecks[m]> We have to give identification to use CEX services so they got us screwed pretty much
12:49:07 <opsoyo[m]> The KYC part is meh if you can still buy it out side of an Aus IP
12:50:12 <TWrecks[m]> Well they know where we live. If my IP is Indonesia but my driver's license is Australian I'm fucked haha
12:50:12 <opsoyo[m]> That's strange. So you can't buy from a CEX while on holiday? 
12:50:13 <TWrecks[m]> They ban you and you lose all your money
12:51:45 <opsoyo[m]> Ah, ok. That makes you fucked
12:51:45 <TWrecks[m]> Good question actually. I think it applies to citizens for this reason. Since we need to use ID. So I'd expect that all the features are still blocked regardless of where in the world I actually am.
12:52:18 <TWrecks[m]> I think they have some further method of knowing if you are using a VPN or not specifically.
12:52:18 <opsoyo[m]> It doesn't have to be a VPN. You can RDP into your 2nd machine which just so happens to be in a different country. 
12:52:22 <opsoyo[m]> Happens all the time. Oops.
12:52:46 <TWrecks[m]> Lmao
12:52:46 <opsoyo[m]> But if they're locking you down because of your citizenship, then that doesn't help you
12:53:04 <hyc> ssh tunnel to VPS wherever
12:54:01 <opsoyo[m]> CEXs are good ponds to drain from if you're careful. It's not like they know where and how it's spent.
12:54:01 <TWrecks[m]> Yeah it's built into the actual account portal I'm logging in to
12:54:02 <TWrecks[m]> CEXS are bad guys
12:54:40 <TWrecks[m]> When I try and buy Monero on binance "This feature is not allowed in your region"
12:54:40 <opsoyo[m]> Oh
12:54:40 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo[m]: I don't spend it tbh lol
12:54:58 <TWrecks[m]> I'm not into drugs or anything I just like the technology
12:54:58 <opsoyo[m]> I'm of a using it like money prerogative 
12:57:49 <TWrecks[m]> Huh what's that?
12:57:49 <opsoyo[m]> TWrecks[m]: XMR only for drugs? That's a cringy take, but I understand the stereotype. 
12:57:49 <TWrecks[m]> hyc: I wish haha
12:59:04 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo[m]: Oh I thought that's what you were insinuating.
12:59:04 <opsoyo[m]> Nah, XMR is a privacy currency for me. I use metals for savings. 
12:59:05 <TWrecks[m]> In reality I'm just treating it like a savings fund that I basically don't touch lmao
13:00:00 <opsoyo[m]> TWrecks[m]: When SHTF, crypto isn't going to do much when electricity is hard to come by 😛
13:00:00 <TWrecks[m]> At this rate it'll turn into enough for a house mortgage in a few years
13:00:00 <opsoyo[m]> That's a different kind of savings though
13:00:00 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo[m]: Where can you even spend it though?
13:00:08 <opsoyo[m]> TWrecks[m]: https://kycnot.me/services
13:01:12 <TWrecks[m]> I'll be alright either way. God looks after me you know?
13:03:11 <opsoyo[m]> Make ChatGPT do the initial part and clean it up. 
13:03:11 <TWrecks[m]> Lmao my life is so ridiculous. I taught myself to code during COVID and somehow found myself working alongside all the weird hipster woke types making more money than we all need doing far less work than we should.
13:03:11 <TWrecks[m]> I'm not even good at it. 🤨
13:05:26 <opsoyo[m]> Yeah, it's not great. It is wonderful at writing, answering questions, and being a glorified data processor.
13:05:26 <TWrecks[m]> opsoyo[m]: I've been rocking a chatgpt subscription lately. I'm finding it's not so good for writing code.
13:05:27 <TWrecks[m]> It's good for when you know there's a tool you can use for some purpose, but you can't remember the name of it.
13:05:27 <TWrecks[m]> I end up using it like a memory extension, not to code for me
13:05:36 <TWrecks[m]> That said it has made me more productive in that capacity
13:05:36 <opsoyo[m]> Can take in text and spit out LaTeX code
13:07:25 <opsoyo[m]> Yes, very good at that too. 
13:07:25 <TWrecks[m]> It's also surprisingly very good for anything SQL
13:07:36 <opsoyo[m]> Data manipulation is a strong skill for it. 
15:52:47 <cockliuser[m]> VPNs are useless
15:52:47 <M7in[m]> TWrecks: What types of coding jobs do you find? I know how to code but dont have a good resume to show, what types of projects did you put on your resume and where did you go to find jobs/clients?
15:52:47 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, using chatgpt as memory extension work for me.
15:52:47 <RavFX[m]> Like, not asking him for code, but asking like "how to do xxx with curl on php". Then it spit code but you just look at the function you wanted to use and manage it by yourself.
15:52:48 <cockliuser[m]> <TWrecks[m]> "I think they have some further..." <- Residential proxy
16:36:47 <RavFX[m]> what's the computer specs & operating system? crypto-geek 
16:36:58 <crypto-geek[m]> Hello! I have a weird issue with the monero daemon and it makes my computer freeze, despite (apparently, at least) low or medium (rarely) resource usage. What should I do about this?
16:39:44 <moneromooo> Top posting on IRC. Well done, matrix bot.
16:40:15 <moneromooo> Try disabling all DNS related stuff (see --help).
16:48:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Perhaps there is an easier way, but I  use
16:48:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> `--disable-dns-checkpoints=1 --check-updates=disabled`
16:51:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Easier or more thorough (?). Im not sure if the commands I gave will disable it everywhere
17:14:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> <opsoyo[m]> "Nah, XMR is a privacy currency..." <- Hi, I'm curious why you use metals for saving given the premiums you pay to buy the metal and then reselling it effectively for spot? Doesn't this spread make it difficult or a long waiting time before you can even break even with metals?
17:14:01 <crypto-geek[m]> <RavFX[m]> "what's the computer specs..." <- Fedora Linux 36, Intel i7-11800H (8 cores, 16 threads), 16 GB ram, 512 GB ssd (180 GB available) 
17:59:20 <crypto-geek[m]> <moneromooo> "Try disabling all DNS related..." <- the only relevant DNS related flag I could find was --disable-dns-checkpoints. It mitigated the issue a little bit, but I still haven't solved it.
17:59:21 <crypto-geek[m]> any other suggestions?
17:59:22 <plowsof11> #monero-offtopic:monero.social for metal discussion, crypto-geek try the other flag from ofrnxmr s comment also
17:59:24 <crypto-geek[m]> <plowsof11> "#monero-offtopic:monero.social..." <- tried it. again, seems better, still not quite there
17:59:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive never tried to sync on btrfs, but maybe has something to do with it?
18:08:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just create a new partition with ext4
18:08:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> lmdb database runs best on ext2/3/4 iirc
18:08:47 <crypto-geek[m]> seems like it shouldn't matter, but I'll try another distro, just to see what happens. It's a weird problem. For reference, I have synced a Cardano full node in the past. It just hogs memory (10-12 GB) when running, but it doesn't really interfere with anything else on my computer.
18:09:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can try* to create ^
18:09:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> I wouldnt yet conclude the filesystem to be the/an issue
18:11:08 <RavFX[m]> could be SSD issue
18:11:08 <RavFX[m]> if cheap no-dram ssd.
18:11:08 <RavFX[m]> If you write a lot in it while having a lot of read access too.
18:11:08 <RavFX[m]> overloaded crappy SSD have the ability to make the computer freeze for a few seconds and make stuff unresponsive
18:45:16 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Btrfs should be ok i have tried monero gui and local daemon run on it in opensuse
18:45:16 <crypto-geek[m]> and I also tried limiting the sync size to one block at a time
18:45:16 <RavFX[m]> imo btrfs is one of the best (or was) when it's time to deal with low end ssd
18:45:16 <xmrscott[m]> I run Fedora which uses btrfs on like a 3 year old Intel nvme ssd, no sync issues. Btrfs is unlikely to be the root cause
18:45:16 <RavFX[m]> Remember it was the only FS that was usable on my first SSD long time ago, a "Patriot Warp 2"
18:45:16 <RavFX[m]> All other FS where making the system freeze constantly 
18:45:17 <crypto-geek[m]> still an issue
18:45:17 <crypto-geek[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> could be SSD issue... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/dd801d3ce8da068a6a817afad4d8c065a6e02bc9>)
18:46:28 <xmrscott[m]> FWIW I use the GUI from Flathub, not a copr based rpm or whatever
18:47:42 <crypto-geek[m]> I have btop open as we speak and the monero node running. SSD io usage is at 66% constantly, so it's probaby not that.
18:47:43 <RavFX[m]> I began to use BTRFS back in 2009-ish when I got the SSD, even back then it was good enough for snapshot, was going.
18:47:43 <RavFX[m]> Not using it anymore thru, now I'm on XFS
18:47:46 <RavFX[m]> * got the crappyest SSD, * SSD ever made, even
18:48:55 <crypto-geek[m]> xmrscott[m]: I use the GUI that I downloaded from the monero website, so it's probably as good as it gets
18:48:56 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Its not snapshotting is it?
18:48:56 <RavFX[m]> BTRFS is copy on write, snapshotting should not affect performance if I remember.
18:48:56 <RavFX[m]> Except if the SSD is actually full
18:49:47 <crypto-geek[m]> not to my knowledge. I haven't bothered to try snapshotting btrfs yet
18:49:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> xmrscott @xmrscott:monero.social:  thank you for the valuable info
18:50:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ravfx and dan as well
18:51:12 <RavFX[m]> Did you had other stuff on the SSD before you did the installation.
18:51:12 <RavFX[m]> Did you do a proper "secure erase" before installing.
18:51:12 <RavFX[m]> Else the SSD might have to erase blocks even if it "still have space" in it. That will reduce performance drastically
18:51:12 <RavFX[m]> Once the OS is installed it will issue discard properly for the SSD to trim but if the SSD was not properly erased before installation, then the initial drive content would not have been discarded
18:52:36 <crypto-geek[m]> I didn't do a secure erase before installing
18:52:36 <RavFX[m]> then it could be that, if the drive was not new or was full of something else
18:53:53 <crypto-geek[m]> I think that's unlikely to be the issue, as I've synced another blockchain without running into this kind of issue
18:53:54 <xmrscott[m]> Could do a smartctl long test to check health of ssd
18:53:54 <crypto-geek[m]> RavFX[m]: I'll try reinstalling my OS and doing that somewhere in the future
18:54:18 <RavFX[m]> If you do, use proper tools for that
18:54:18 <RavFX[m]> You can use the bios if it have the option.
18:54:18 <RavFX[m]> blkdiscard command work sometime but for some reason it did not work for my crappy Crucial BX500 SSD
18:54:42 <RavFX[m]> I don't think smart stuff will tell you if all the block of you're SSD are actually full
18:57:48 <RavFX[m]> Also if one use Linux with LVM and/or luks encryption, discard might not be on by default, meaning that after one complete write cycle the ssd performance tank like a rock
19:01:26 <crypto-geek[m]> I use luks encryption on the drive, but this is a monero only kind of issue
19:01:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Moneromoo replied already 
19:01:27 <crypto-geek[m]> thanks for trying to help
19:01:27 <crypto-geek[m]> is there a dev or someone else I could contact for support?
19:01:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/Moneromoo/Moneromooo/
19:02:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-support:monero.social  and hang around and we might be able to figure it out
19:03:35 <RavFX[m]> crypto-geek[m]: try to write 10GB with dd and check how much time it take
19:04:14 <xmrscott[m]> Also just noticed Fedora 36 was mentioned which EOLs in like 3 months, probably wouldn't hurt to upgrade to 37
19:04:46 <RavFX[m]> monero sinc is quite intensive on reads too (that's the reason it's very low performing on HDD)
19:04:46 <RavFX[m]> if you constatly read, it won't leave it much time to erase the blocks needed for the write
19:08:35 <RavFX[m]> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/crypttab.html
19:08:36 <RavFX[m]> discard
19:08:36 <RavFX[m]> Allow discard requests to be passed through the encrypted block device. This improves performance on SSD storage but has security implications
19:08:36 <RavFX[m]> Implication is that for forensic, they will know where there is data and where there is no data
19:14:00 <DanIsnotthemanBr> I did have to have L2arc with zfs when i syncd. Similar issue with speed
19:14:01 <RavFX[m]> Note that if one just add the discard option to crypttab without also doing a full system install (after doing a secure erase). Then it won't fix the issue directly.
19:14:01 <RavFX[m]> After enabling the option and rebooting, you want to tell the SSD where is the free space so what you do is you use DD to totally fill the free space, then you delete that file. Then you wait a little, doing nothing on the computer and hopefully the SSD will begin the cleanup and erase the free block.
19:14:01 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Being COW
19:14:55 <moneromooo> The original question said there was not much resource usage...
19:15:44 <RavFX[m]> moneromooo: There is no much resources usage when the system is waiting to write stuff because of a constipated SSD
19:16:04 <moneromooo> That doesn't show up in i/o in, eg, top ?
19:16:41 <RavFX[m]> I think you can see it in iostat (that there is stuff in the write queue)
19:17:54 <RavFX[m]> you have a %iowait variable on iostat, could tell maybe
19:18:12 <RavFX[m]> type that command during the sync when performance tank
19:18:56 <RavFX[m]> %iowait : It shows the percentage of the time that the CPU or CPUs were idle during which the system had an outstanding disk I/O request.
19:21:18 <RavFX[m]> use iostat -x
19:21:18 <RavFX[m]> it also show await, r_await and w_await
19:21:26 <RavFX[m]> for each devices
19:21:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> crypto-geek: 
19:31:58 <DanIsnotthemanBr> New css proposal buy every ssd in existence and test R/W
19:31:58 <RavFX[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: It's not only that lol.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/a2eecd8e642f4ed676aeed7dda1f1b06ecff4183>)
19:33:47 <RavFX[m]> Good premium drive have the same issue but cope with it faster (they have more dram to buffer the write and they erase blocks faster)
19:33:48 <RavFX[m]> But cheap QLC drive, well, QLC write when all block are full **is slow**
19:40:30 <RavFX[m]> QLC block erase time is 6 ms
19:40:30 <RavFX[m]> meaning it take 1 second to erase 664KiB 😂
19:40:30 <RavFX[m]> That's why you want to have the block erased in advance & on stuff deletion
19:41:15 <RavFX[m]> 664KiB/s write speed is 1981 MFM tech
19:43:26 <RavFX[m]> Forget that last line, it's wrong. But 664KiB/s is awefully slow, especially if on top of that you have ton of read to do, then it will easily halve that value
20:15:26 <ceetee[m]> how many block erase commands can run in parallel? One per die in the stacked setup?
20:16:48 <ceetee[m]> in general encrypting the blockchain on drive is stupid, if you can you should have an unecryped drive for data like this
20:17:11 <ceetee[m]> (Only if Monero is legal in your country, of course)
20:19:42 <RavFX[m]> Good question, I assume it depend where they are relative to each others.
20:19:42 <RavFX[m]> I think it could erase the whole content of a "string" (structural par of a v-nand cell). But for that would would want to erase the whole string, with is not what you probably want.
20:19:42 <RavFX[m]> Secure erase is extremely fast (for the whole drive, like less than 60 seconds) but you can't do that kind of parallel shit when there is data to keep
20:19:58 <RavFX[m]> s/par/part/
20:23:11 <RavFX[m]> Intel QLC nand have normal write speed of 40MB/s and 48MB erase block size
20:23:11 <RavFX[m]> Does it take 6ms for 48MB, I have no idea. But I assume it will want to copy what is not targetted in that cell, somewhere else first
20:25:09 <RavFX[m]> It's really why you just want to keep the free space as erased blocks so that way there is no worry (except if you write a lot of data, 2021 Intel QLC drive are still limited to 40MB/s while 2020 models, 31MB/s , so it's the speed you gonna get once the DRAM cache is full)
20:25:58 <RavFX[m]> so in normal usage you won't get any slowdown really as cache is usually 512MB
20:26:22 <ceetee[m]> Don't dram less devices have SLC cache anyway?
20:26:49 <RavFX[m]> Some competant SSD also treat part of the free space (erased blocks) as SLC or MLC cache, with is a lot more fast, and eventually copy all that as QLC for storage when the drive is not busy
20:27:14 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, DRAM-less device often have SLC or MLC cache, it's slower than DRAM but do the work well
20:27:32 <RavFX[m]> if the drive have no erased block, you gonna get zero cache
20:28:32 <ceetee[m]> yeah, makes sense
20:47:24 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Arrrgh you found a hole in my proposal :(
20:52:37 <ceetee[m]> Benchmarking hardware specifically for a Monero node is still a good idea, especially if we can find some repeatable test scenario that is easy enough for the average user to set up
21:38:08 <sgp[m]> New Cake Wallet update: Trocador, Tor-only exchange and fiat API modes, send to addresses in pinned Tweets, and more: https://www.reddit.com/r/cakewallet/comments/11l8ate/updates_cake_wallet_460_and_monerocom_130_tor/
21:48:09 <iwormthroughhout> will cakewallet ever have a desktop app
21:51:02 <sgp[m]> iwormthroughhout: Yes, we have a beta for Mac OS out right now: https://cakelabs.com/news/cake-wallet-adds-trocador/
21:51:07 <sgp[m]> sorry wrong link: https://cakelabs.com/news/cake-wallet-arrives-on-desktop/
21:59:15 <iwormthroughhout> <sgp[m]> "Yes, we have a beta for Mac OS..." <- any ETA for linux?
21:59:33 <sgp[m]> iwormthroughhout: no ETA
22:00:46 <iwormthroughhout> this is very cool though. especially for someone like me who likes to use the same apps on mobile and desktop. can't wait to start using cakewallet on all platforms :)
22:07:32 <TWrecks[m]> <M7in[m]> "TWrecks: What types of coding..." <- Honestly I got lucky by the grace of God. I just threw my resume everywhere and attended interviews. I also have a mentor who helped me write a really cool toy robot test in FSharp for my current job. It was a solid 16 hours a day for a week to get it working how I wanted.
22:12:18 <iwormthroughhout> sgp[m]: 
22:12:18 <iwormthroughhout> "Linux and Windows support (including Tails)"
22:12:23 <iwormthroughhout> hopefully by including tails you can include whonix as well since they are both based on deb 
22:14:20 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Its wierd mac got it before linux
23:14:11 <RavFX[m]> <DanIsnotthemanBr> "Its wierd mac got it before..." <- Dev have a mac, obviously.
23:14:11 <RavFX[m]> Technically it should be possible to have all platform about in the same time, assuming usage of non proprietary, cross-platorm libs