00:00:20 It’s set for 8:30 est 00:08:23 So you guys gonna ban monero chain bloat tomorrow when I won't be there? 00:08:23 Please be sure to ban it real well. 00:12:54 Banhammer it 00:15:11 Morbinals are sus, has anyone been able to build the modified wallet yet? 00:16:04 it stops compiling at 65% 00:16:25 You're getting further than me then 00:16:49 its broken code / a pysop 00:16:54 >launch morbinals 00:16:56 a premine* 00:17:00 >start minting stuff 00:17:09 >release broken software 00:17:27 >fix it after you're done minting the first 1k nfts 00:17:34 Software lifecycle 00:17:34 >distribute morbinals-working-legit-v1.exe 00:17:34 typical 00:17:58 Morbs have legit been premined at this point 00:18:00 We should invite them 00:18:10 Since were going to acconodate then 00:18:18 Might as well incorporate it into the core node 00:18:36 we needed a fair launch, i am boycotting pre-tx-extra restriction morbinals 00:18:36 I'd say, if we're already doing nfts, were doing a fair launch and "fork" away from them 00:18:41 And also call them by their proper name, morbinals 00:19:20 We should just help them asap 00:19:22 Yes, mordinals are like bytecoin 00:19:23 not going to buy this pre mine trash! 00:19:31 Atomic swap css proposal 00:19:33 monerobull[m]: Morbinals will be Monero 00:19:53 I love having poisoned outputs and excludable decoys 00:20:36 the morbinals whitepaper which i think orion_midast is working on 00:20:46 Ok, can someone make a fixed morbius now (that's the name for morb-wallet) 00:21:13 Copyright it or someone will take it 00:21:22 Uhm bad news 00:21:28 Marvel owns that i think 00:21:41 who are they going to sue ? 00:21:57 Use general funds to buy it off them 00:21:57 fuck marvel 00:22:06 ^ 00:22:06 we can just take the name, they cant do shit 00:22:26 I mean, they could delete our GitHub 😭 00:22:28 Fork it? 00:22:43 we dont need github we need morbius 00:22:49 DanIsnotthemanBr: What good does that do if the original doesn't compile 00:23:03 No fork marvel 00:23:06 Ah 00:23:42 So now that we have reached consensus about the future of monero nfts 00:23:55 We can go to MRL and tell them out requirements 00:23:55 Merge 00:24:14 s/out/our/ 00:25:30 Wheres the dev 00:25:43 Doug 00:25:43 Bring them here so we can get this workibg 00:25:43 Anon 00:25:51 Ill find em 00:25:56 Whats the git? 00:26:03 moonero 00:26:50 https://github.com/mooonero/mordinals 00:28:04 Chatgpt, analyze this repo and cross-reference with every known monero contributor 00:28:35 messaged them on Twitter, stated that code doesn't compile and suddenly team went to bed LOL you couldn't make this shit up 00:28:45 chatgpt abort 00:29:13 As an ai language model, it is my duty to ABORT 00:29:22 ok that didn't work 00:29:24 until i see actions enabled and GREEN workflow runs - this is a premine and not a fair launch 00:29:25 mordinals.org 00:29:28 Down 00:29:34 Like a sinking ship 00:29:42 Https://mordinals.org 00:29:55 They are clearly not a webdev 00:30:27 Even i somehow managed to get certificates installed somewhat properly 00:30:41 Looks like doom3d images 00:31:06 Its a totally open project! 00:31:13 You can mint them real cheap! 00:31:29 Only problem is, the code is broken, whoops 00:32:55 I like the bought twitter followers 00:33:32 Do they really think this makes it look like moneropunks had a natural demand during mint 00:34:55 "I looked the other day, dont..." <- do you mind if I dm you? 00:36:03 If nothing else, it's good to bring some exposure and another look at tx_extra :) 00:36:17 I dont mind 00:36:17 Just have few things on the go 00:36:48 If they are already putting in the effort, they might as well release it publicly for everyone to play with >:( 00:42:18 can the official monero twitter account denounce this pre-mine and link people to the fair launch on wownero or something, by monday? 00:47:06 "But they dont want to pump the..." <- This motive and circumstances would fit pretty perfectly with what we are observing 00:49:36 I just want the tx extra gone 00:49:55 I think you will probably get your wish 00:50:22 The miner is the most interesting thing in Monero at the moment though IMO. It's wild 00:50:57 "Down" <- Someone’s probably mad and ddoss attacking or even ransom lmao 00:51:29 Patch the code so every wallet that mint nfts get all there funds burned 00:51:52 The patch add burning capability, lets use it for good causes 00:52:53 Lmao people will get the burning and NFTs they’ve been promoting recently 00:52:54 Love it hahaha 01:01:10 can we at least let it get popular so miners get a pay rise 01:13:24 First we need to have code that will process and remove the bloat after we ban them 01:16:05 we should call beerus sama to hakai all people who put jpeg on monero 01:20:06 I managed to build morbius, this is what I did:... (full message at ) 01:21:00 So peoples will begin to bloat the blockchain 🤮 01:21:10 Lfg 01:21:29 Yeah don't use it ; ) 01:21:50 Kill shitnero while they decide his best to accomodate it 01:21:54 How 01:22:17 Kid games 01:22:31 If it can be attacked, it will be 01:23:01 if Alex from local monero catches wind of this he will be boiling hot mad hahaha. He was already pretty fired up about removing tx extra, now he will be saying I told you so haha 01:23:18 He's been fighting lolz 01:23:27 fr33_yourself[m]: If. 01:23:59 Oh shit he used instant transmission and spawned in 01:24:16 I agree with you though alex and think your arguments were pretty solid 01:24:32 Thanks ❤️ 01:24:59 I am a simple creature though, I don't fully grasp the potential ramifications of people using inputs/outputs on chain for steganography 01:25:30 Basically I couldn't fully understand the negative consequences the other side of the argument was attempting to highlight 01:28:12 They're main point is that it'll increase scan time due to the additional outputs that will be added to the chain by honest arbitrary data injectors. They seem to think that the equation `malicious_output_spammers + bitcoinization + degraded_fungibility > honest_output_spammers + malicious_output_spammers` holds true. 01:32:35 Im done arguing btw 01:32:38 Maybe they are right though. I think it's a matter of forecasting the likelihood of both "undesirable" behaviors occuring and then weighing the consequence of the worst case outcomes against each other. I'm not sure I'm smart enough to know which is the lesser of the evils 01:32:48 Whatever happens happens, yolo 01:32:55 Ya live ya learn 01:33:06 ofrnxmr[m]: You're done arguing *today*. 01:33:17 new day - new internet argument 01:33:23 Oh wait..lolz 01:33:32 Does it take a hard fork to limit it? 01:33:45 If so, chain split time rofl 01:33:58 Rip 01:34:08 this is how monero dies 01:34:19 Literally 01:34:25 Ofrnxmr's point is valid imo. If we rush to hardfork maybe it could cause a problem 01:34:35 How does Monero die? 01:35:05 fr33_yourself[m]: today blockchain ~160GB 01:35:06 tomorrow blockchain ~35TB 01:35:16 that have to be patched like tonight? 01:35:21 If you hard fork between tx extra and no tx extra, the consensus is clear 01:35:25 Users dont want it 01:35:35 A HUGE exchange doesnt want it 01:36:00 The old chain will fork to no Txextra down one oath, and to limited down another 01:36:08 And the split haashrate will kill xmr 01:36:16 I don't want monero to die 😭 01:36:16 with mordinals 😂 01:36:24 Noooo 01:36:32 As I said 01:36:32 Ts_funeral 01:36:38 * As I said 01:36:38 Tx_funeral 01:37:06 "If it aint broke, dont fix it. And when it does break, just put duct tape on it til it completely breaks" 01:38:00 Whatever though. Monero wants to be the big bad wolf 01:38:06 And cry foul when getting attacked 01:38:15 Wants to talk about reliability etc but then support spam 01:38:20 Ok. Lol. Clownshow 01:38:45 I hear we can elect core members 01:38:47 bridgerton[m]: Well guess what, mordinals are here to stay because we simply cannot allow a marginal scan time increase under the assumption that outputs aren't limited. And you think there's somewhere you can escape to? Think again! All chains have the equivalent of ordinals, and Monero decided against striving to be free of them because a marginal potential scan time increase was just too much to bear. 01:38:55 When is the election and who votes 01:41:00 It's not just scan time, Alex even if you disagree there are more arguments than that and you know it. I encourage everyone to see the extensive discussions going on in #monero-research-lab:monero.social 01:41:17 over the past few days 01:41:28 and maybe weeks 01:41:29 idk 01:41:35 politicalweasel[: I'm just having some fun, this isn't a serious discussion room. 01:42:00 It's hard to keep being all serious when you discuss the same thing for months 01:42:12 well yeah but not everyone knows the full extent of the problem and realizes that 01:42:38 "And the split haashrate will..." <- why would the hashrate be split though🤨 01:42:58 we've been minting pdf's / putting b-movie on the blockchain for ages 01:43:00 Because I wouldnt run the shit daemon 01:43:13 Im nit storing your nfts, sorry 01:43:16 Oh, can we make a bee movie mordinal? 01:43:18 Go use wownero 01:43:23 Alex|LocalMonero: Soon 01:43:24 Is anyone running mordinal? 01:43:35 45mins 01:43:52 Nice 01:44:01 Dw, ill try to limit to 256bytes 01:44:11 Its not an attack. Its just my premine 01:44:24 "that have to be patched like..." <- so is it time to sell now? haha 01:44:34 So this can never be fixed ???? 01:44:50 > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> today blockchain ~160GB 01:44:50 > tomorrow blockchain ~35TB 01:44:50 This could actually happen? 01:45:00 Even in the next upgrade with Sepharis 01:45:05 Full membership proofs and / or seraphis allow Txextra to be used without much issue 01:45:14 no, the blockchain could not expand that quickly 01:45:20 But thats 2*n years away 01:45:29 Been 2 years away for 2 years or so 01:45:57 (Koe has worked his ass off non stop with little help if any) 01:46:28 Not to discredit anyone who has helped.. of course 01:46:51 ofrnxmr[m]: I understand this. I mean who would run the stupid old chain with tx_extra? 01:48:59 fr33_yourself[m]: Yeah, idiot wanting nfts on monero and attacker spaming shit on the chain at minimum fee 01:50:52 oof 01:50:58 how did we get blindsided like this 01:51:15 Guys I just realized something. If tx_extra is removed then all the NFTs that we inscribe now, prior to tx_extra removal, will be x1000 more valuable later if Monero becomes the dominant currency. (this is not financial advice) 01:51:24 haven't ordinals been on btc for like a month? lol 01:51:37 is there is limit of size for that scam or people can patch the wallet and put /dev/random into morbinal? 01:51:37 We have a limited time window to stuff as many NFTs as we can before tx_extra is removed 01:51:55 nice one alex. All the proof of stake boys are actively placing bids on those nfts right now 01:52:23 this is our one shot to be part of eternity, ladies and gentlemen 01:52:30 s/random/urandom/ 01:53:14 what we inscribe now will make any owner a moneromillionaire (not financial advice) 01:53:25 fr33_yourself[m]: Over a yeqr 01:53:40 dont be fooled by alex - im holding out for the chained tx nfts after tx_extra is limited 01:53:43 Ive seen the spam forever. I showed you I think 01:53:49 Didnt know it was ordinals, thought it was just spam. 01:54:13 Those chained ones will be fun, but really are a waste of time 01:54:24 Easier to do on insert chain here 01:54:26 when the chained tx nfts get popular with normies, time to sell and invest in the clsag coin nfts 01:54:59 plowsof11: Ha! Nothing will ever match the value of tx_extra mordinals. They'll be like picassos. Cope 01:55:50 April fools is coming up, I think localmordinals.com is a free domain... 01:57:26 alex, what is your proposed solution the mordinal problem 01:57:55 what is the best way to go about eliminating tx extra 01:57:58 specifically 01:58:57 Name name is Alex and I want nfts 01:59:09 fr33_yourself[m]: I'd love to answer but I'm a bit tired to talk about itright now, ask me tomorrow 😁 01:59:10 Dont you dare try to stop us now 01:59:55 Gotta get the site and app prepared for the mordinals market section on LocalMonero 02:00:35 Also gotta make a mordinal of LocalMonero Lucy 02:00:49 aka localmonero-chan 02:02:13 anime waifu will sell big bags of monero to the nft boys 02:02:23 will sell for big bags of monero 02:02:57 considering 99% of the nft went -99% in value 02:07:14 I know there has been controversy in the ccs surrounding videos lately. One type of video that's taking off in popularity and is pretty entertaining IMO are the ai chat voice fakes of the US presidents. Someone could make a video using that tool of the presidents debating monero and if it was entertaining enough it might get a lot of views 02:07:39 the tier lists they make using the ai generated president voices are pretty funny imo, maybe monero could jump on the new meme format 02:15:45 Where are those videos 02:15:50 Want to watch them haha 02:16:27 "the tier lists they make using..." <- Monero has dynamic block size so we can expand the block to fit the videos as mordinals 02:19:03 we already have an ai voiced ccs animated video 02:19:17 good suggestion 02:20:38 XMRPriest[m]: youtube 02:21:02 plowsof11: yes, but it will be boring if the presidents aren 02:21:06 t the orators 02:22:12 guys i have a serious question. Why does Monero need a decentralized exchange for any other crypto-currency? I don't understand this use-case 02:23:56 If there is a way to move from a green piece of government paper to Monero and back, then that's all that matters. I don't see why anyone will use something like Serai when Local Monero and BISQ already exist 02:27:20 Why would someone who has another crypto-currency want to swap into Monero. Wouldn't they just go straight from fiat to Monero via Local Monero or use BTC as intermediary liquidity on BISQ? 02:29:48 Ltc* 02:29:48 BTC is too dirty 02:30:54 Free 02:30:54 Its a bit of 6 in one hand and half dozen in the other 02:31:35 not sure what you mean ofrnxmr 02:31:35 No Dex / atomic swap = you have to trust someone, ALWAYS 02:32:06 But Dex / atomic swap = useless imo 02:32:31 Nothing to swap to that needs a Dex. Token swaps are for eth on eth 02:32:32 think of all the people Monero can onboard if people offer local trades via local monero vs. serai. 02:32:32 They even have wrapped xmr I think? 02:33:01 I guess you are right, I just don't see why Serai is necessary 02:33:52 The cause of the problem is, of course, the governments 02:33:58 green pieces of paper are the most saleable currency. So if you can easily convert from Monero to green pieces of paper in your local area then you don't really need much of anything else 02:34:43 if you have access to green pieces of paper and Monero, I don't see the point of having liquidity for other chains or this that and the other 02:35:10 I like the idea of transparant chains as verifiable storage for banks 02:38:35 ofrnxmr[m]: I'm not sure I follow you here. What use could a transparent chain have? 02:38:58 Banks say they have 40b, but really, they dont 02:39:15 It would be nice to know when a bank starts fucking around on a Saturday before dumping their stock on monday 02:39:22 Why would we need banks in a post crypto adoption future? 02:39:27 Or when ftx etc is siphoning your money 02:39:37 fr33_yourself[m]: For the same reason you do now 02:39:58 to send money to people internationally? that's what crypto is for 02:40:06 Traditional banks, perhaps not 02:40:14 But banks nonetheless 02:40:16 self-custody and high portability of crypto kills bank 02:40:40 Employers arent going to pay your unverified wallet address 02:40:54 They'll pay your kyc'd bank account 02:40:54 cex is bank for the simpleton owner of doge or bitcorn who thinks he is going to get rich or is sticking it to the man 02:41:11 ofrnxmr[m]: why not 02:41:26 Because change is hard unless you want to massacre people 02:41:37 In the literal sense ie genocide 02:41:58 that is not a sound explanation 02:42:03 It isnt a full one, but its sound 02:42:06 And like Alex said 02:42:08 Im tired 02:42:53 If i have an employee and he sends me his receiving address, I will send to him as long as my wallet software shows the same address as the message. If our communications are secure, then there can be no error on my side only on his. 02:43:02 Answering lazily so I should stop lol 02:43:28 (Many)employers dont pay cash for the same reason 02:44:02 And if employer paid your wallet directly 02:44:07 They would be using a bank themselves 02:44:10 😥you didn't respond to my dm's 02:44:16 Large employers ^ Not their own wallet 02:44:54 fr33_yourself[m]: I have a lot of chats going 😭 sorry 02:44:59 What made me switch from btc to monero was the Anonymous, private, and untraceable aspect of monero in itself. The ability to not be able to be traced by irs or question what i do with my money which it ain't their business. That is what made me switch to Bitcoin to monero because i don't want anyone questioning what i do with my money because its annoying. Love monero 02:45:01 Ill get back to everyone ❤️ 02:45:32 s/to/from/ 02:45:36 it's ok, but one day i'd like to get to know a bit more about you. You seem like a fairly interesting person 02:46:28 ofrnxmr[m]: why not just receive funds to a dedicated business revenue wallet, then pay employees out of this wallet directly to their personal wallets? 04:32:24 Using xmrig I'm getting zero benefit from an AMD RX6600 GPU. Hashrate is the same as with CPUs only. I've set the .json file to use CPU & GPU. 04:44:01 We should have an immediate soft fork or at the very least a policy change, which restricts tx_extra to 576 bytes. Further restrictions can and should come later, but for now that will at least somewhat control the mord spam and prevent large jpegs, especially before someone posts gore or whatever. I'm not aware of anyone who is arguing for a limit higher than 576, so this shouldn't be incredibly controversial. 04:44:01 I say 576 because legitimate 16-out transactions can use up to 547 bytes from what I've found, due to subaddress overhead, and payment ids, and the "signal" bytes in tx_extra. In other words this will NOT affect normal users. Luckily 576 happens to also be a little below what most mordinals are, so it will filter many if not most. 04:44:01 Unless we have a good reason to hard fork within a month or two, in which case we'll include it there, but I don't think we do. 04:44:01 Anyone agree? 04:52:40 > <@politicalweasel:matrix.org> We should have an immediate soft fork or at the very least a policy change, which restricts tx_extra to 576 bytes. Further restrictions can and should come later, but for now that will at least somewhat control the mord spam and prevent large jpegs, especially before someone... (full message at ) 04:56:43 > What use could a transparent chain have?... (full message at ) 04:59:32 Alex | LocalMonero | AgoraDesk: I'll take that as a yes for your support 👍️ 05:01:31 A low-risk soft fork limiting tx_extra is a step in the right direction. Monero is all about continuous improvement, yo. 05:05:44 that's 2-0 in favor, and 20 minutes is definitely plenty of time, so let's do this 😎 08:35:31 https://mordinals.org/item/144 08:54:24 morbinal chan 09:44:04 Quite ... morbid? (That's mean, I know, but fit to that mordinals nonsense) 12:09:32 "You're done arguing *today*." <- :D 12:22:03 https://mordinals.org/item/101 12:32:57 Hahaha 12:33:33 Damn straight 12:36:20 good morning friends 12:37:15 https://twitter.com/AnarkioC/status/1623522838534578180 12:37:15 anarkiocrypto: This looks super cool and promising. I know the MVP is still some time in the future, but I'd advocate for some kind of fee, so the site hosting and maintance can be paid for 12:37:58 Do you have a donation address yet? 12:49:29 Most of the backend is done... Should only take around 6-12 work hours until the beta version is released. 12:49:29 The VPS is $10/month and paid until May 15. No technical way to add a fee as it's non-custodial and donations are sent directly to the user's address (and a "symbolic" listing fee would be prohibitive, especially for medical/housing/charity fundraisers and for people who can't easily buy Monero where they live, e.g. low cash in person/by mail liquidity). 12:49:29 Will try to launch it + release the code before March 31 (my living situation will probably be less stable in April, so I want to do it before then). 12:49:29 As an alternative, Zombie Master's XMRStarter is already live and working: https://xmrstarter.com/ 13:02:33 alright, no rush, I don't have an immediate need but when I see cool projects I always reach out to their creators <3 13:12:09 * XMRPriest[m] uploaded an image: (304KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/AXnflnOkzWuhAvgrJWuLPTaX/ima_690f95b.jpeg > 13:12:22 Anyone look at their pull requests ? 13:12:41 https://twitter.com/m0rdinals/status/1636511299478626304?s=46&t=jXyKaUPxffdSzmtigdiP2w 13:12:59 Havent been submiteed 13:13:02 They are must reading logs and posting our convo lolol 13:13:17 "They" discovered 13:13:27 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pulls nothing yet 13:14:27 Lol they be lying or still prepping the request 13:14:32 This is just huge trolling 13:14:44 caused by tx_extra discussions 13:14:50 But would removing these ordinals from the decoy set be a decent solution ? 13:15:01 No 13:15:15 >he addition of ordinals does not detract from Monero's core mission of providing a private and fungible digital cash system 13:15:15 lmao. You can't add non cash, and then claim it doesn't distract from the cash mission 13:15:15 because decoy selection is not part of consensus, so all old wallets will keep selecting them 13:15:44 Rip 🥲 13:16:08 I just want a solution to mitigate the damages hahaha but so does everyone hahaha 13:16:15 I'd say merge https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8733 and make a point release ASAP 13:16:26 and remove tx_extra completely in the next hardfork 13:20:22 My question is how do we come to a full consensus on the tx extra problem and make a decision to move forward ? 13:21:05 How has contentious problems been solved in the past ? Seems like there are 3 camps on the problem and how do we come together 13:21:14 As Koe and Alex said - central planning 13:21:38 Having nobody capable of making decisions is pretty bad project management 13:21:46 Lmao 13:22:00 Not wrong, what’s their opinion on the matter ? 13:22:09 And I dont mean dictatorships 13:22:44 Same as how you have a coordinator for ccs, with no coordinator, you just randomly pick who hosts meetings? 13:22:58 Nobody has any responsibility? 13:23:06 We can spin tired for 2 years because its nobodies fault? 13:23:14 Tires* 13:23:25 I 100% agree with sech 13:24:36 I meant by koe and Alex even tho based off alexs responses yesterday seemed he was for removing tx extra 13:24:46 Why? Not simply because I agree with his choice, but because making a decision isnt something everybody is capable of 13:24:46 One of the Core Team's only responsibilities is to act as mediators: https://www.getmonero.org/community/workgroups/ 13:25:30 Alex is. And he wants someone to end the filibuster and DO SOMETHINF 13:25:58 ofrnxmr[m]: I’m on the same page, limit and remove but how do we prevent other iterations of ordinals that can do more damage ? sech1 13:26:10 More damage? 13:26:48 90% of tx having tx extra ordinals = fuck your decoys. 13:26:48 Whether its steg or not, those tx are fingerprintable 13:26:58 if tx_extra is limited or removed, there's not much space in a transaction you can use 13:27:08 certainly not enough for JPGs 13:27:08 I think smol, encrypted tx_extra is the best compromise we have 13:27:18 Keyword compromise 13:27:33 stego is discourage by cost and by reducing the privacy of the sender 13:27:34 This method of provably transferring Mordinals can probably be ended by decoy selection algorithm enforcement, which has been proposed in the past. But they could prove transfer by another way using cryptography 13:28:17 Scriptless script nfts 13:28:57 proposal: https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/87 13:29:09 I think that any such event (like Mordinals) just exposes one of Monero's weaknesses in terms of privace, and it must be fixed 13:29:20 by dealing with tx_extra in this case 13:29:27 and probably enforcing decoy selection 13:29:41 ^ also why I keep references exchanges who use preselected or non standard decoys 13:29:49 Keep referencing * 13:30:05 Because Txextra isnt a Txextra problem 13:30:09 Its a cascading issue 13:30:53 From the linked tweet: Nice people, these m0rdinals, first they bring those beautiful NFTs to the blockchain, and now they even want to help with privacy. 13:31:16 Are they bad actors? No 13:31:18 SBF was a nice person 13:31:22 They are using monero how it is designed 13:31:25 they are retarded actors 13:31:30 Who are we to restrict their use of Txextra 13:31:34 or just trolls 13:31:56 they are pentesters for the network 13:32:21 Use wow if they want to test different features lmao 13:32:28 They arent pentesters. Just doing what its designed to do 13:32:36 Arb data storage with no limits 13:32:37 The transaction flood in mid 2021 was about worth 200,000 of those mordinals: https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/11t1tsn/the_monero_standard_45_monero_blockchain_gets/jcjpugu/ 13:32:44 Why would they NOT use it. 13:33:06 *That* was a stresstest. That now is only children playing. 13:33:29 Stresstest? You haven't seen a real stresstest yet 13:33:43 ^^^^^^^ 13:34:05 Ah, yes, I forgot. They sky must fall, otherwise we don't even leave bed. 13:34:15 Must it? 13:34:28 Is that the only way monero will evolve, is by dying first? 13:34:48 (Ie, so... we should press the button then?) 13:35:55 A real stresstest would be at least 100 tx/second sustained for a few weeks 13:36:14 10M transactions/day 13:36:20 THAT would be a stresstest 13:37:17 Alright, alright. Of course that would be a technical stresstest. Just pretty hard to happen on mainnet, realistically, because expensive. 13:37:57 total tx fee per block decreases as soon as you hit 300 KB 13:38:01 so not really expensive 13:38:17 just spam lowest fee transactions to keep the blocks growing 13:39:03 I mean, making a full block at 300 KB/block is more expensive than making a full block at 20 MB/block 13:39:08 One asks me whether I want Monero to die first because I move, and the other wants to sell me 100 txs/second on mainnet as somewhat realistic scenario. Sigh. 13:39:08 this is how fee algorithm works 13:39:16 *before I move 13:39:53 Yeah, that's how level-headed discussions work. 13:40:54 you need only 0.006 XMR per block in fees, 4.32 XMR/day to sustain full blocks and grow them little by little 13:40:55 At least we are in a channel where we won't immediately get kicked. Hopefully. 13:41:05 as soon as the start growing, this 4.32 XMR/day starts decreasing 13:41:08 *they start 13:41:52