00:00:37 My way or the hwy way 00:03:52 "I'm sorry that you and plowsof..." <- Lol, the epic "incel" insult 00:03:58 Never seen it it used in the wild like this 00:04:56 It's obvious from their behavior. 00:05:06 I'm not agreeing with you dude 00:05:21 I haven't read the whole conversation but you seem in the wrong here 00:05:37 That they dont like women? 00:05:45 Loud mouths aren't always right. 00:06:18 I'm only here to contribut to sech1. 00:06:37 Do you even know whonsech1 is πŸ’€ 00:06:44 He has better things to do than tech support 00:07:06 Too lazy to learn to use git = you arent contributing to sech 00:07:15 You're leeching 00:07:26 I NEED THE BOSSSSS 00:07:36 GET MEEE SARANNGGG 00:07:41 lmao 00:07:43 Think of it this way, regardless of who is right or wrong, your odds of getting what you want wont get higher by insulting or attacking 00:07:54 I dont went anything 00:07:59 Im cool 00:08:01 He wants something 00:08:02 πŸ˜„ " 00:08:08 * πŸ˜„ 00:08:10 btw, I will get into the zero to monero thing, where should I ask if I have any question? 00:08:16 No. 00:08:20 ofrnxmr[m]: The message was meant to the other guy 00:08:21 For deep details? 00:08:23 Here I guess 00:08:31 Or community 00:08:32 There is the monero development channel I think 00:08:36 ofrnxmr[m]: could be detailed, could be surface level idk hahah 00:08:38 Yup 00:08:56 alright then I'll get on it 00:08:57 or #monero-research-lounge:monero.social depends on the ask 00:09:06 -dev or -mrl for work -lounge for inquiries into casual 00:09:45 just ask me, if -I- don't know about it then no one else will 00:09:58 Mmmm 00:10:09 "Dev is dead" 00:10:12 1+1=? 00:10:15 So ill ask in off topic 00:10:51 DanIsnotthemanBr: 24 00:10:58 Window 00:11:01 :/ 00:59:20 "any way to trade precious metals..." <- I have always used bitgild.com 01:01:36 Since my first bull run 2k...16?(?okay I'm bad at years alright) I've used that site 01:02:57 Always pristine condition, discreete packages, and a few days shipping time 01:04:10 If you live in Sweden I'll trade you myself 01:46:12 Wow haha i just scrolled through the drama above and can only guess this is how "normal" people feels while watching paradise hotel.. 01:46:13 Asking for help and not willing to learn. This is the way! 01:59:09 xmrfn[m]: I think XMR is a good project, I still don't have a reason to use it, but I'd like to help the network, so I might do that or run a node. 03:50:30 "I think that pinning cores is..." <- Are you talking about pinning mining tasks to specific cpu cores here? 05:30:59 644043[xmpp]: xmpp:myneroβŠ™mxi?join 06:14:10 tx_extra is surprisingly cheap 06:32:40 by raw numbers though, btc OP_RETURN is a bit cheaper on average due to segwit/taproot subsidy 06:45:17 s/OP_RETURN/OP_PUSH/ 06:53:57 Ah shit nevermind tx_extra is loads cheaper (currency conversion error) 06:56:34 If my numbers are right, morbinals are 15x cheaper than lowest fees on BTC 06:56:43 Yeah, right now you can easily load about 100kb 10:15:33 hello 10:15:42 are there any miners around? 10:16:01 curious about a few things; namely what a good starting kit would look like 10:16:41 Henlo 10:17:40 feu: It is very hard to be profitable with a computer specifically build for mining. You need good deals on parts, and low cost or free electricity 10:18:03 Asics any good? 10:18:13 there are no asics 10:18:18 There can't be 10:18:27 The beauty of randomX 10:19:15 feu: you best option is to use hardware that you have and that is sitting currently unused 10:19:33 Ok. I'm still learning a bit, here, so I'll still say stupid stuff. I saw some of the planned changes, something about membership proofs or something, what's that? 10:21:16 one of the many things that is considered for seraphis, the next big network upgrade that's happening in a few years 10:22:20 Whatsit do? Also, where's the advantage for mining? Fewer cores, higher clock speed, or more cores lower clock speed? Like are Epycs better, or like a bunch of 5950s? 10:23:10 It's primarily CPU for mining, right? So video card does nothing? 10:23:40 there are randomX benchmarks. Generally hash per Watt is the interesting number 10:24:06 GPU can technically be used, but is highly inefficient and a CPZ gives better results 10:24:14 s/CPZ/CPU/ 10:24:15 Nice. If I mine, it will probably be just what I have, and during down times. Just curious. 10:28:07 So, Seraphis, basically, turns monero into a modular system. But, that's for the devs, right? So they can make changes to how monero works by changing out pieces? 10:28:53 Mine monero using solar power is this achieveable. I hope it is. 10:29:05 "Whatsit do? Also, where's the..." <- Epyc 10:29:23 Monero doesn't care where your power comes from... 10:29:26 Easier 5950x 10:29:43 bridgerton[m]: It is 10:29:55 Techrev: No 10:30:01 Txextra does that 10:30:24 Seraphis makes improvements to. .. like, everything 10:30:41 Isn't Seraphis a proposed replacement for txextra among other things? 10:30:55 Oki... So Seraphis is awesome. 10:31:13 you probably want to read this issue from top to bottom Techrev https://github.com/seraphis-migration/strategy/issues/2 10:31:13 Isn't tx_extra unrelated to Seraphis? 10:32:08 I don't know, I'm learning. I know they want to get rid of tx_extra, and Seraphis and membership proofs are part of the strategy to replace it, so I'm trying to learn. 10:33:56 Everything I've seen the past 2 days is all tx_extra evil, nfts gonna break fungibility, have to get rid of tx_extra. Why I came here, to try to understand the issue, better. 10:35:18 People running nodes gonna have to upgrade their 20 year old hard drives to more than 96gb, ono! I dunno, I'm trying to figure it out. 10:36:11 there is a fix that breaks the current 'monero nft software' coming in the next release. - but its not a hardfork so we have to ask the large mining pools to use it, lets see 10:36:38 seraphis is ring sigs / decoys - just more of them 256? not 'full membership proofs' please confirm this statement 10:37:26 The seraphis hard fork will move fields currently in tx extra out into their own individual fields so tx extra won't actually be used for any normal transactions anymore, that's my understanding anyway 10:37:46 Yup, correct. And there is indeed no direct connection between tx_extra and Seraphis. 10:38:44 It's currently implemented that way in an early library, but can be cut out or length-restricted easily if finally we can agree on something :) 10:39:35 And no direct connection between mining and Seraphis, anyway 10:39:52 Can normal transactions be made to look enough like nft transactions that they can serve as decoys? 10:40:20 Yes. Just attach a stupid picture at *every* transaction :) 10:40:36 And kind regards from blockchain bloat 10:40:46 Seems like a sensible thing to do. Dunno, but I guess gas costs go up. 10:40:48 (and hope your transaction will be relayed) 10:41:04 Makes sense. 10:41:23 Your definition of "sensible" and my definition may be different. NFTs on the Monero blockchain are not sensible for me. 10:41:39 Though, there's something to be said for having pictures on money, I get the cost/time increase. 10:41:57 Techrev morbinals will very likely be blocked in the next hardfork 10:42:07 That's good. 10:42:33 Making them harder may start in a few days already. 10:42:49 the latest version of monerod (you must build from source to use it) refuses to relay morbinal transactions 10:42:52 Also good. 10:43:03 https://mordinals.org/item/726 10:43:08 With a point release that limits the size of tx_extra to 1060 bytes - for people who agree to run the latest monero daemon version 10:43:14 For this reason, I strongly recommend you to build monerod from source if you run a node 10:43:29 xfedex[m]: No 10:43:35 they will have 32 bytes to play with 10:43:37 Just wait for release 10:43:48 726, that's finally true art on the Monero blockchain. It was a long wait. 10:43:57 Release comes in the next couple days 10:43:59 Can I buy that NFT? 10:44:07 I do plan to run a node, but out of curiousity, what are the advantages to running a node, and what kind of traffic do nodes typically see? 10:44:08 Not for sale 10:44:17 Everything has a price. 10:44:23 how many pixels do we get with 32 bytes 10:44:38 Depends on how many colors you want 10:44:43 Techrev: Up to you. Can be gb or tb. But expect at least 1gb/day 10:44:53 plowsof11: Bout 10 😭 10:45:20 rbrunner: πŸ˜†πŸ˜† not me 10:45:32 10 pixels is unacceptable wtf 10:45:37 I cant be bought πŸ‘ 10:45:47 Really. 10:45:54 can barely make a dope wallet logo with that 10:45:55 Yep 10:46:13 Can do an 8x4 2 color sprite. 10:46:29 Wait, wrong maths. 10:46:36 8 color, lol. 10:47:40 1gb/day I can deal with. I have an 15tb/month max I think, I don't really want to dig into that in any significant way. 10:47:44 Techrev... (full message at ) 10:49:13 Yeah, I have a 30tb NAS in a datacenter :/. However, I'm looking to start switching to larger drives. The 20tb drives are in a nice price range, now. 10:49:55 Will give it something useful to do, I guess :/. 10:54:18 But, even if it happened to hit 5tb in a month, I don't think it would be terrible. 10:56:49 "how many pixels do we get with 3..." <- You could fit the tiniest gif ever: https://stackoverflow.com/a/36605651 10:56:49 Jpegxl might work as well, but could find any examples 10:59:16 Yeah, at that size you're almost better juet inventing and monero image formet that just bypasses compression and image size information, and has a standard height/width, lol. 11:04:13 RP sech1 11:04:13 > It takes ~3 times less CPU time now to do the initial sync when starting P2Pool, thanks to more efficient caching after the fork, so it will sync faster for everyone, especially weak CPUs like Raspberry Pi. 11:05:41 Also 11:05:41 > P2Pool forked successfully, and the number of outputs in coinbase reduced from 102 to 35: https://p2pool.io/explorer/tx/779559b7ae3ce21c108e276e066b0c152ee5a3632ec8d0c62bf7189594a48db2 -> https://p2pool.io/explorer/tx/dee5fbbd8f413cc1b3f4de6a5a6503c1f28cdba2143ffb6d1c7a781f526ae757 11:06:44 Ahhh, so a lot of nodes running on pis? 11:07:57 There is pixmrnode or wat eva order 11:09:24 Not a lot, but pi in painful 11:09:26 Is* 11:09:29 Or was 11:10:28 Honestly, pi nodes are kinda cool. I was working on an idea with the Pirate party a while back, they wrote mesh software, could set up Pis in a mesh network. I was pricing out setting them up with solar panels and wifi, seeing if I could get them cheap enough and working to just be able to start throwing them out car windows, more or less, lol. 11:10:41 Ok. 11:11:21 The rasp pi lacks hardware aes instructions which makes verification a lot slower 11:11:34 (Rockpro etc work better) 11:11:34 Pirate party just got way to bogged down in Gregorian economics and mincome, so I kinda quit. 11:12:00 Ahh, ok. My servers are fairly good, so non issue, just an interesting thing. 11:12:07 Solar mine xmr 11:12:49 I still like the idea of a solar pi mesh, tho... Or some kind of SOC computer. 11:12:50 any amlogic or rockchip cpus have integrated aes. Only the raspberry pis are shitty 11:13:00 Fair... 11:13:25 From a high level, I just say pi, but you're right - better SOCs out there. Nice :D. 11:14:59 Rpi are expensive these days 11:15:34 They always have been, sigh. Difficult to source. They're cheap, really cheap, but sourcing them is impossible, so the price gets jacked. 11:16:30 No clue if you can get them at retail in UK. I should try sometime, but they tend to sell out as fast as they make them :/. 11:17:14 I should be able to find some decent rockchip SOCs here in Thailand, though. Something. Probably better for cheaper. 11:19:39 Android TV boxes work well too, if you dont mind android that is 11:20:15 I used to run an octocore in my Car, lol. 3rd party car stereo. I do like Android :D. 11:20:30 With cfw. 11:21:43 Cryptocurrency Mining on a Raspberry Pi (it's fun....trust me) (1.7M views) 11:22:06 Any smoke? 11:22:08 I Mined Monero for 24 Hours on a Raspberry Pi (Crypto Tutorial) (190k~ views) 11:22:45 ROFL... Honestly, a crazy SOC mesh network can have a lot of cool uses. Especially if there's some redundancy and you don't care if you lose a few. 11:23:30 Normally its β€œ You must watch this before mining on rpi4” 11:23:43 Hard part is finding cheap solar panels that actually work, and can keep the thing charged all night. 11:24:35 Just nail it to the top of a random tree in the middle of nowhere, lol. Set up about 50 of them. Throw an lte sim in 1. 11:25:56 better use a phone if you want to use lte 11:26:37 Sure, but phones are expensive. The idea is to have them just thrown around random places - hidden - in range of each other. But, not traceable back to you. 11:27:06 If someone randomly finds one, or a tree gets struck by lightning, you don't want to care about it. 11:28:14 "I used to run an octocore in..." <- You can mine on that 11:28:38 Techrev: Not really when compared to rasp or rockpro 11:28:40 Yes, this is what I'm learning :D. And, I am very familiar with those SOCs, lol. 11:28:48 Heat exchange with car radiator 11:29:12 a used phone is cheaper and more powerful than a SOC single board computer with LTE, Case, cooling + power supply 11:29:50 Fair point... I used to have about 10 laying around, too, but yeah... Will depend on sourcing. I mean, I'm near China. 11:29:53 https://nitter.it/hyc_symas/status/1600857111793057792?lang=en-GB 11:30:26 only downside of a phone is your limited to internal memory (used phones have little, micro SD is slow, and few phones have USB 3, even if they have a USBC connector) 11:30:38 That is cool as hell, plow 11:31:43 Yeah, I'm thinking that a big mesh can have a cheap sd card in each one, too, and set it up as a kind of raid storage. Would be slow af, but effective. Dunno. Plus, I don't know how far the people developing that project got, either. 11:33:38 SD is terrible slow and unreliable, and with raid its even slower 11:33:55 cheap M.2 ssd is the way to go 11:34:27 If you can find an cheap SOC with M.2 and low low power consumption, yeah. 11:34:57 You can use an external m2 11:34:58 In an enclosure 11:34:59 Again, my thoughts were being able to slowly throw 100s of them out there like johnny appleseed, lol. 11:35:21 Techrev: Its not as out of reach as it seems 11:35:33 define "cheap" 11:36:10 Exactly. I almost had one built for under $50 each. Dunno, if I can get the costs down, and have 1 node working for $20, it's probably an easily accomplished thing. 11:36:19 Tough part is cheap working solar panel. 11:36:32 A lot of fake solar panels out there. 11:37:12 Plus, caching can be implemented to speed some things up. 11:38:15 a S905X3 costs about 15USD, 4GB LPDDRR about 20USD 11:38:33 To me, $20/node - I can throw those out car windows all day... Well, over a year it could become a pretty big network. 11:39:07 Need an wifi router... Unless the pi has wifi built in, and a battery. With solar panel, yeah. 11:39:31 Wifi routers with batteries are pretty cheap. 11:40:07 having shitty nodes is worse then having no nodes 11:40:39 Well, yeah, first I have to get 1 working node, then work on cost/performance. But, it's definitely an doable thing. 11:40:59 at 20USD you have 2GB ram max. 11:41:24 Well, if you think about it, 100 nodes, that's a lot of ram. If it's set up like a mesh cluster. 11:42:12 Basically, a lot of trial and error left to go through, lol. But, it's a workable idea, and every year cost/performance gets better. 11:42:31 A linux install with monerod needs 2gb min. better 4gb, especially if you want those nodes operational for a few years 11:42:44 Fair. 11:43:27 And it will be at least a year to 5 years before I can really work on that particular project again. In the mean time I do have servers. 11:44:22 But, for an freedom based, ancap, pirate network - it's the best thing I can think of, and pretty cool. 13:09:12 Is monero really untraceable? 13:20:25 Mostly. Its much more likely that you are traced with offchain data. This can be because a seller gave data to a 3rd party, or because you have bad opsec, or because of browser fingerprinting, or because of a million other things 13:21:06 look up the playlist "breaking Monero" if you want to learn more about the few niche attack vector Monero has 13:21:33 wow. nice. Thanks for your reply :) 13:21:42 I will definitely look up that playlist 15:08:00 I am running MX linux and I just downloaded the monero wallet from getmonero 18.2 and normally to run anything on my computer I need to have it set to run as a program and then I hit execute. This time though it doesnt seem to wanna run. I did have this same issue last year I think when I first installed 17.3 I dont know what I did to fix it. Does anyone remember having a similar issue or how to fix it? 15:39:24 Can you try to run it from terminal and see if it opens or crashes with errors? 15:45:36 What command would that be? I'm not that experienced with the terminal I keep meaning to play with it but never have the time 15:47:26 sech1: Are you interestd in my notes on CPU pinning? 15:50:51 post a link to them and i will hand deliver them for you 15:54:42 Plowsof is sech1s secretary (seriously) 15:55:13 "What command would that be? I'..." <- Drag and drop the gui executable into the terminal window 15:57:23 rooter0_ did you manage to make MSR and huge pages work properly? 15:57:56 is it possible to make a 1-of-2 multisig with the currently available tools? 15:58:00 * agentleda550[m] uploaded an image: (13KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/byvNxteCzjDgfauxsLKwxXfa/Screenshot_2023-03-19_11-56-51.png > 15:58:24 agentleda550[m]: I think I did that right? doesnt seem to be working either 15:58:32 sech1: No but I have a few leads. Concentrating on pinning for now as CPU core assignment is dynamic, which causes all kinds of cache flushes and context switches. 15:59:10 it's better to run xmrig on the host, it takes care of all CPU affinity and NUMA too 15:59:19 Looks like a profound problem if youhave alot of CPUs. 15:59:56 I can' run it on my main server, which is where the Epyc is. 16:01:22 Super paranoid as I'm enterprise infosec for 24 years. 16:03:36 you can run xmrig without sudo, you just need to enable huge pages on the host and run the MSR script with sudo 16:04:21 make a separate user for xmrig if you're paranoid 16:04:55 Already do, even in the VM. I'll try to fix it but if I have to do without MSR's 15% I will. 16:06:01 Setting ofrnxmr[m] and plowsof11 to Ignore. 16:07:36 lol 16:16:59 chaser: Regarding 1/2 multisig: Not sure it's possible, maybe maybe not, but 1/2 is the same as simply two people controlling the same key, so ... 18:14:38 "chaser: Regarding 1/2 multisig..." <- Yeah, 1/2 multisig just seems like a single key with extra steps, though it does allow people not to share a secret key which may be used to derive other things in addition to the wallet, but still. 18:20:55 rbrunner Alex | LocalMonero | AgoraDesk: yes, the point is that they don't have to share the key, but beyond that, they don't have to *store* that key outside of their regular credentials. each can just pick a subaddress from their existing keyring and use that. as long as they have their mnemonics, they can regenerate the multisig from it 18:22:04 chaser: Perhaps you can utilize shamir secret sharing scheme as a way to sidestep this issue? 18:36:44 "Perhaps you can utilize shamir..." <- that's an extra step that requires handling an extra (and so far unidentified) piece of software and the risk that comes wish that 18:44:28 Dunno how your going to get help if you block plowsof and ofrnxmr 18:51:31 chaser, Alex|LocalMonero: Just tried. 1/2 multisig works. I think I remember now it once didn't until UkoeHB reworked much of the multisig code 18:52:43 It needs 4 or 5 key data exchanges now to establish and confirm the multisig address, but whatever :) 20:24:25 Hey, found this, a pretty good documentation of where bitcoin came from and how it was created, was thinking if the monero community can create a continuation to that article that leads to the creation of Monero and call it the History of Monero. 20:24:25 https://cointelegraph.com/bitcoin-for-beginners/the-history-of-bitcoin-when-did-bitcoin-start 20:25:04 It should go straight on the official site if we make one 20:25:20 * make one IMO 20:29:52 orion_midast: There is an early history on Reddit already. 20:30:35 Rucknium[m]: Thats reddit, its not a paper that can actually be used for documentation, but as I am doing research I'd really like to read on if you have the link 20:31:25 I have seen Reddit posts cited in academic articles recently 20:31:50 I don't remember the link. It is a multi-part series IIRC 20:32:13 Thats why we should have documentation, now I have to look for it πŸ˜‚πŸ˜… 20:32:24 from johnr365 https://resilience365.com/monero-timeline/ 20:34:16 Thats actually pretty cool, I wish there was more writing to develop on each point, but regardless this is really cool, will read through it 20:34:24 Is this linked through the official website ? 20:35:12 Nothing is "official" 20:35:22 right, because its decentralized 20:35:26 Getmonero.org = trusted home / core 20:35:29 what about the largest website 20:35:46 Probably some scam website 20:36:13 Example, Google play used to recommend scam wallets over cake, monerujo etc 20:36:23 ofrnxmr[m]: thats the largest webiste for XMR 20:36:30 its linked through coingecko cmc etc... 20:36:37 Coingecko 20:36:37 is the timeline linked through that site ? 20:36:40 Has monero.com 20:36:41 Had 20:36:47 Listed as the official website 20:36:56 Until I corrected them 20:37:12 And they still list nonsense as block explorers or wallets etx 20:37:43 I think cakewallet is the best mobile wallet for monero so far 20:37:54 ofrnxmr[m]: Hard to verify with an anonymous chain and team and community hahaha 20:38:35 "from johnr365 https://resilience..." <- can the timeline be linked on this page ? https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/what-is-monero/ 20:39:26 Anything can be done, the question isnt about linking it 20:39:30 But have you read it? 20:39:41 * Anything can be done, the question isnt about can we link it 20:40:08 ofrnxmr[m]: I skimmed through it, read all the titles, will go deeper on each milestone 20:40:12 Getmonero is open source 20:40:12 aka pr's and reviews 20:40:38 Well it would be nice if you read before suggesting someone write a pr :) 20:52:43 Hi! I'm trying to do a normal transfer using the "transfer" command and I'm getting "Warning: Some input keys being spent are from blocks that are temporally very close, which can break the anonymity of ring signatures. Make sure this is intentional!". I notice that I have exactly two unspent outputs and both belong to the same block. I guess 20:52:43 that's the reason for the warning? I have sent and received funds at basically the same time recently so I guess that's what caused it. What should I do? I can't really choose a smaller amount to send so both outputs have to be used... what are the implications if I ignore the warning? 21:14:24 Your reasoning sounds plausible. If that is indeed the case, sending both outputs back to yourself would generate a new merged output, which you could spend with a lower privacy risk. Maybe you can ignore the warning completely and the privacy is still good enough for everyday use cases. 21:14:24 I'm not an expert on the cryptography, only replying because nobody else did so far. 21:25:20 Thanks for the reply. I was able to split the transfer in two after all so I solved it that way. Would still be good to know exactly how big the risk is/would have been. I'm new to this. 21:29:51 Breaking monero is a good place to start to answer a lot of questions at once 21:30:05 YouTube playlist 21:33:39 Say I sent you 1xmr twice 21:33:39 They go in the block as one time address ofrnxmrA and Bofrnxmr 21:33:39 To the casual observer, these tx might be completely unrelated. 21:33:39 If you later send a tx that combined ofrnxmrA and Bofrnxmr into the same tx, the chances that you own those outputs is increased 21:34:51 The likely good of Ceetee sending a 2in tx that has both of those ring members is lower. 21:34:51 The fact that they were received in the same block and being spent together in a later block increased the likelyhood that you own those. 21:35:55 As Ceetee said, if you churn those outputs using sweep_single, you'll generate new one time addresses associated with them 21:39:02 Churning needs research, because its hard to really know how effective it is (example, if I sweet_all in a self send after this, it combines outputs that were recently disassociated. Which again increased the chance that you are the owner or the recipient of the churn) 21:39:02 Multiple churns, time spacing churns etc all have an effect on the actual privacy, so its not as easy as 1+2=3. 21:39:32 In practice, you dont want to fund and then empty your wallet 21:39:47 You want to fill your wallet with random xmr and then randomly use and refill it 21:44:08 And multiple wallet, or at least sub accounts when trying to keep funds as though they were separate entities. 21:44:08 Then you mostly need to "worry" about timing, mixing the wallets/accounts or some off chain stuff