01:23:29 <luna24[m]> True
08:34:27 <Guest3000> hi
08:34:40 <Guest3000> how this checkpoint is created
08:34:42 <Guest3000> ADD_CHECKPOINT2(2817000, "39726d19ccaac01d150bec827b877ffae710b516bd633503662036ef4422e577", "0x3900669561954c1");
08:42:11 <sech1> Guest3000 just call get_block_header_by_height RPC for this height and you'll get "hash": "39726d19ccaac01d150bec827b877ffae710b516bd633503662036ef4422e577" and "wide_cumulative_difficulty": "0x3900669561954c1" in the response
08:48:12 <Guest3000> there is something like this on monerod
08:48:26 <Guest3000> get_block_header_by_height
08:54:04 <Guest3000> how to retrieve hash and difficulty from daemon and not rpc
10:04:15 <mlcboss[m]> I wonder why monero PoW uses CPU instead of GPU 
10:04:15 <mlcboss[m]> i recently bought an AMD Ryzen for mining and not many option for cpu mined coin 
10:04:15 <mlcboss[m]> while most PoW uses GPU , bigger coins like Bitcoin & Doge uses ASIC (an analog circuit dedicated to validate blocks)
10:05:42 <mlcboss[m]> CPU seems very old school isn't it? i believe bitcoin used that before 
10:05:42 <mlcboss[m]> and they have the worst energy efficiency 
10:06:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> what do you mean "CPUs have the worst energy efficiency" ?
10:07:05 <k4r4b3y[m]> >old school
10:07:07 <k4r4b3y[m]> not an argument
10:08:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> mlcboss if you are indeed curious about why the CPU mining route was taken, you should listen to howard chu's monero presentations and talks
10:08:13 <xfedex[m]> CPU mining has almost the same "energy efficiency" compared to GPU/FPGA/ASIC mining
10:08:34 <ceetee[m]> TL;DR CPU mining is a feature, not a bug
10:09:45 <TheDisruptiveCol> TL;DR it stops the big boys just coming in with huge mining farms and centralising power with ASICs imho.    its a bonus feature.  
10:11:07 <xfedex[m]> Monero follows Satoshi's vision of "1 cpu 1 vote". Simply put, almost anyone can mine Monero with no initial cost, while with ASIC mining, only ASIC manifacturers and big players can actually profit from mining. GPU mining can be considered a middle ground between CPU and ASIC mining.
10:11:33 <k4r4b3y[m]> I don't think CPU mining stops big boys coming in, btw. I believe existing server farms for VPS'es can make use of their idle time (if any) with mining XMR---so you would be seeing, again, farms of centralized equipment mining monero. However, CPU mining seems to be the "most" centralized option out of the GPU and ASICs.
10:12:44 <k4r4b3y[m]> I meant most *decentralized
10:12:49 <k4r4b3y[m]> fucking freud
10:12:50 <mlcboss[m]> <k4r4b3y[m]> "what do you mean "CPUs have..." <- CPU is used for general computing 
10:12:50 <mlcboss[m]> while ASIC is built dedicated to mining 
10:12:50 <mlcboss[m]> they were built to be efficient machine for mining 
10:13:26 <k4r4b3y[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> CPU is used for general computing... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/bb5a18686dc3968ee12231d6d4972d9487b1a874>)
10:13:42 <k4r4b3y[m]> So, RandomX is using every piece and part of the CPU. Where is the waste?
10:15:26 <xfedex[m]> Monero's mining algorithm is designed to be efficient on a general-purpose CPU thanks to random code generation and the requirement of low-latency L1, L2 and L3 caches as well as fast RAM. CPUs are the most energy-efficient hardware for mining Monero.
10:16:40 <mlcboss[m]> <xfedex[m]> "Monero follows Satoshi's..." <- make sense , but why would small cpu participate it's impossible for them to win a block
10:17:16 <xfedex[m]> It's not impossible, it's very unlikely. This is why P2Pool was created. Small miners can get regular payout thanks to P2Pool.
10:17:39 <mlcboss[m]> xfedex[m]: ohh so cpu is the ASIC for for monero algorithm..
10:18:36 <k4r4b3y[m]> mlcboss[m]: if you think "small" cpu is impossible to participate in the mining, wait till you see the incentives present in the ASIC-mined coins... Afaik, your old computer can get a 1k H/s while the best CPU today gets a 100k H/s? So, the imbalance is 100 to 1 between the best and the worst, lets say. With bitcoin, your regular cpu or gpu is millions times behind the specialized asics.
10:19:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> xfedex[m]: Also this. Thank sech1 for p2pool.
10:21:29 <mlcboss[m]> xfedex[m]: what is the benefit of using p2pool than mine the block yourself? 
10:21:29 <mlcboss[m]> small miners make sense but the reward will be small right if they mine with their own personal computers?
10:22:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> what is the benefit of using p2pool than mine the block yourself? 
10:22:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> > 
10:22:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> > small miners make sense but the reward will be small right if they mine with their own personal computers?
10:22:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> benefit of using p2pool is having regular payments. With mining solo, you get payouts less regularly (depending on your mining rig).
10:22:26 <mlcboss[m]> i don't even bother running a small mining operation that earns me nothing or negative cause you need to pay electricity
10:23:26 <xfedex[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> what is the benefit of using p2pool than mine the block yourself? 
10:23:27 <xfedex[m]> > 
10:23:27 <xfedex[m]> > small miners make sense but the reward will be small right if they mine with their own personal computers?
10:23:27 <xfedex[m]> Without P2Pool, if you are a small miner with 1 computer, it might take months or even years to find a block. With P2Pool even small miners get regular payouts.
10:23:40 <mlcboss[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: what is the catch of p2pool , the reason i avoid mining pool cause of the fee 
10:23:40 <mlcboss[m]> im fine waiting 2-3 months for payout 
10:24:02 <k4r4b3y[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> what is the catch of p2pool , the reason i avoid mining pool cause of the fee 
10:24:02 <k4r4b3y[m]> > 
10:24:02 <k4r4b3y[m]> > im fine waiting 2-3 months for payout
10:24:02 <k4r4b3y[m]> p2pool also doesn't have pool-fees, you do not pay a cut of your earnings to the pool operator.
10:24:22 <k4r4b3y[m]> point of p2pool is there is NO centralized pool operator.
10:24:46 <k4r4b3y[m]> catch of p2pool might be having a more complicated setup for mining. But gupax.io makes that setup quite automated and easy.
10:25:15 <mlcboss[m]> is p2pool only in monero blockchain cause i never heard of it in other coins 
10:25:36 <k4r4b3y[m]> mlcboss[m]: btc also had one. But they didn't care for it. And now it is abandoned.
10:25:56 <k4r4b3y[m]> Monero should learn from btc's mistakes.
10:26:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> lol
10:26:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> btc didbt adopt p2pool for good reason
10:27:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> didnt*
10:27:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: and that is?
10:27:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> until very recently, p2pool was bith expensive and privack harming to other users
10:28:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> and blockchain bloating
10:28:25 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I get the privacy harming part, but what about the p2pool on xmr was harming other users' privacy?
10:28:31 <k4r4b3y[m]> sorry, I meant, making it expensive for others?
10:28:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> p2pool spams low quality coinbase outouts
10:29:10 <mlcboss[m]> monero seem the most unique PoW coin 
10:29:10 <mlcboss[m]> designed an algorithm that will be efficient on a CPU
10:29:10 <mlcboss[m]> peer to peer pool 
10:29:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1 coinbase output becames 400
10:29:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> i has 2 400+ output ribg members in mybtx yesterday
10:29:38 <k4r4b3y[m]> okay, and you say that pushes the fees of transaction up?
10:29:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> I thought that's why we have dynamic blocksizes
10:30:24 <mlcboss[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: gov blocked cex for no reason lmao , even binance is blocked
10:30:24 <mlcboss[m]> forcing to use local cex cause taxes 🤑 
10:30:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> the user who get oaid these has to spend 2-5+% to consolidate
10:30:49 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: but the user himself is also the miner..
10:31:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> 460 out on a coinbase is literally 3 full blocks when consolidated
10:31:12 <mlcboss[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: so if i want a good privacy is better to solo mine?
10:31:12 <mlcboss[m]> and like i mentioned i have to wait 2-4 months to get reward which im fine with it
10:31:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> solo is best privacy, and doesnt hurt anyone elses
10:32:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> there is a pr by jeffro to fix the issue as well
10:32:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> so if i want a good privacy is better to solo mine?
10:32:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> > 
10:32:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> > and like i mentioned i have to wait 2-4 months to get reward which im fine with it
10:32:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> solo mining is a game of quality equipment. I think monero-gui wallet shows you your changes of hitting block in a given timeframe. Try and see if you are OK with that timeline.
10:32:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> (fix = stop includingcoinbase outputs as ring members*
10:32:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> no.
10:32:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr I am not getting how p2pool on xmr makes transactions more expensive for others
10:33:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> dont just look at your potential 100% diffucukty
10:33:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> go look at the hashrate of who found the last 100 blocks
10:34:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> a lot of people who "i wont solo becaust it will take 3 years" are donating their blocjs to large miners
10:34:15 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: wut
10:34:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> of course a large portion are from the large miners
10:34:47 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: is there a github discussion thread about this? I am not sure if this is a good solution.
10:34:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> yes
10:35:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> there are 2
10:35:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> 108 and 109
10:35:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: youre crazy
10:35:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> you just spread a bunch of bad info
10:35:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> abd want to comment on how to fux what you dont even understabd
10:35:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> audacious ha
10:37:56 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: lol, I am here to learn brah
10:38:15 <ofrnxmr[m]>  https://xmrchain.net/tx/c59f4aefccbd732f300283ae5461702826e4d34031b342d667350b957772e1c2
10:38:15 <ofrnxmr[m]>  https://xmrchain.net/tx/7d88f6eda4a353ba30a09cb0bbb24705db6b311bfd7e0306b7a87344959b3c9d
10:38:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> here are two of my own tx
10:38:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> one using the fix, one without
10:39:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> look at my decoys and tell me which ring is better
10:39:35 <k4r4b3y[m]> okay you got in one of your tx two ring members from the coinbase outputs,
10:39:44 <k4r4b3y[m]> but is this a huge deficiency in your tx privacy?
10:41:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> yes
10:41:36 <k4r4b3y[m]> you got a metric for that, or is this a "feel"
10:41:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2 out tx are the cast majority of every tx youve ever sent
10:41:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> no
10:41:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> its not a feel
10:41:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> its common fkn sebse
10:42:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> wgen do people send 400 out? they dint and cant
10:42:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> if i send you a ring wuth 15 x 400 ours, YOU KNIW IM NOT P2POOL
10:42:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> and can EASILY exclude any coinbase as not the real spend
10:43:18 <k4r4b3y[m]> isn't this problem gonna go away by itself as we increase the ringsize? For example, when the ring size is 128 with seraphis, you might get, what, 2 ring decoys from the p2pool coinbase, but, so what? You still have 100+ other decoys. 
10:43:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> AFTER p2pool fuxes, my effective ring size on the tx i posted is around 10
10:44:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> tgats a 35% decrease in anonset
10:44:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> no
10:44:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> it gets worse with txextra, exchange / merchant volume etc
10:44:53 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: what no? what are the odds of having most of your decoys from p2pool coinbase transactions, once the ring size is like 100+
10:45:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> a 1 in 2 out tx is 1.5kb
10:45:21 <k4r4b3y[m]> it seems like a question of what is the portion of the p2pool coinbase enotes to the total monero enotes.
10:45:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> if i send you xmr and exery decoy us 2.5kn fir a 1 in 2 out, you kniwthose are similar to "internal transsfers" or someone using a servuce
10:45:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> aka, thats nit the trye soebd euther
10:46:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> every sale i ever make in person will be a 2 out
10:47:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: 25% at peak iirc
10:48:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> rucknium posted the numbers recently
10:48:05 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: so at ring size 16, you have had at most 4 decoys being from the p2pool 
10:48:18 <k4r4b3y[m]> and that was the worst case scenario that could've happened
10:48:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> thats well over 45% if morbinals didnt slow diown or p2pool dudnt hard fork
10:48:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> from p2pool
10:48:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> with 1500 miners lol
10:49:17 <sech1> After its hardfork on March 18th, p2pool reduced the number of outputs it generates per day by 60%
10:49:32 <sech1> so it impacts ring decoys less now
10:49:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> a lotless
10:50:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> sech, have you looked at jeffris pr?
10:50:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> it excludes coinbase
10:51:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "I will combine it with the..." <- https://gist.github.com/Rucknium/67cc9efdf7e43a40c52417611b322d43
10:51:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> the numbers
10:52:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> <plowsof11> "jeffro256: freezing to make sure..." <- https://stagenet.xmrchain.net/tx/e075bf7e3ec463e05a9852cc5f7e6ac9e1b3298965533c04747a557b17abec57/1 only coinbase tx
10:53:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> and heres 2 tx, one using normal decoys one ysing jeffros
10:53:21 <ofrnxmr[m]>  https://xmrchain.net/tx/c59f4aefccbd732f300283ae5461702826e4d34031b342d667350b957772e1c2
10:53:21 <ofrnxmr[m]>  https://xmrchain.net/tx/7d88f6eda4a353ba30a09cb0bbb24705db6b311bfd7e0306b7a87344959b3c9d
10:53:41 <sech1> I haven't looked into it, and I'm not sure it's what everyone agreed on
10:54:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> its not part 109, that diesnt buikd rinfs fir coinbase
10:54:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> or maybe the ither way around...
10:54:24 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr even though in one of your transactions, two decoys came directly from coinbase outs and thus have decreased the crowd your enote was hiding in, is this decrease really impactful to your transaction privacy? I, as an onlooker to the blockchain, still have no idea which address you have paid to, and how much XMR has changed hands.. So, how much of your privacy is at risk here?
10:54:26 <sech1> the pain of typing on a phone :D
10:54:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> but anyway, thus one just removescoinbase from regular rinfs and gives them theur iwn
10:55:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> sech1: haha. tablet 😅
10:56:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> on lookers dont, but your decoys are cleeaarrrly not fungible
10:57:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> with enough spam, you can kkeep lowering the pricacy
10:57:47 <k4r4b3y[m]> that's true whether there is p2pool and/or mordinals or not
10:58:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> morbinals alone added 25% volume of excludable 2 outs to the chain
10:58:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> coinbase and txextra are the issues, not  p2pool and morbs
10:58:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> some of* the issues
11:00:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> p2pool just exposed leaky holes imat the protocol level. p2pool isnt THE problem. its ysing monero as monero is designed
11:01:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> the fact the bad design leaves doors open to invite bloat and privacy reductions, isnt tge faukt of p2pool, serai, morbinals, or even a merchant who consolidates outputs
11:09:32 <plowsof11> reasons for the p2pool hardfork also listed here under "why hardfork" https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining/comments/1095730/psa_p2pool_network_upgrade_aka_hardfork_on_march/
11:14:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> where he sats, p2pool at 50% of network = 100000 outputs
11:14:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> 100k outputs consolidated is 228 blocks or 68mb
11:16:28 <k4r4b3y[m]> the solution is full membership proofs
11:16:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> lmao
11:17:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> are you fluffy's unicorn? or just feel like stating the obvious
11:18:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> fmp is obviously ideal. but theory and practice matter
11:18:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> living on mars us nice, but its not viable yet
11:19:51 <k4r4b3y[m]> I agree with this: https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/108#issuecomment-1379288635
11:20:05 <k4r4b3y[m]> >it seems better to aim for general solutions to problems. In this case, one general solution to the privacy impacts of consolidation would be a global membership proof. 
11:21:33 <k4r4b3y[m]> and even after global membership proofs, monero will need constant high volume use. Privacy loves company, and if the majority of the activity comes from p2pool or some specific project related enotes, then, even if we have full membership proofs, the crowd one hides in shrinks.
11:22:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> smh
11:22:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> ill be back in a week when you stop preaching to the choir
11:22:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> have you seen zcash?
11:22:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> yeah, I'm thinking jumping ship
11:23:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> xmr is broken by design /s
11:23:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> zcash doesnt work
11:23:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> why would we adopt software that doesnt work at lower scales than out short term projections?
11:23:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: hehehe
11:23:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> zcash is broken by design
11:24:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> moneo, i hope, doesnt adopt broken software while its still broken
11:24:35 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: to be specific, which broken software are you referencing at?
11:24:41 <mlcboss[m]> is monero need to mix transaction so that's why i have to wait 10 blocks to spend the coin i receive?
11:24:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> fmp
11:24:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> mlcboss[m]: yes
11:25:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> a reorg can invalidate your ring members
11:25:14 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: how is this broken? Afaik there is no monero specific implementation yet?
11:25:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> so 10 block lock to prevent those types of attacks
11:25:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: bitinfocharts
11:25:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> look at zcash block size vs tx count
11:25:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> thats just from z to z adddress spam
11:25:58 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: yeah you are talking about zec's broken tx fee model, right?
11:26:03 <k4r4b3y[m]> but that is not related to fmp?
11:26:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> doesnt scale provate tx
11:26:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> no
11:26:18 <mlcboss[m]> do i need to wait 20 mins to accept payment?
11:26:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> im talking abiut it lite$ally is infeasibke
11:26:30 <k4r4b3y[m]> mlcboss[m]: no you don't
11:26:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> monero private tx vokume on zcash = rip nodes_ wallets and everything in between
11:26:38 <mlcboss[m]> or if it show in my wallet it's mean is already process?
11:26:48 <mlcboss[m]> it just i can't spend it yet
11:27:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> right
11:27:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr I still don't get what you are talking about
11:27:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> because you havent dyor
11:27:26 <k4r4b3y[m]> can you stop talking in riddles, take a deep breath, and speak in full sentences?
11:27:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> no lol
11:27:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> next week when im back on my main device 
11:27:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> alrighty
11:27:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> this week im pissing myself off with incomplete sentences
11:28:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> enjoy yourself
11:28:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> and thrres no riddle in "use your eyes and stop just listening to the news"
11:28:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> lot of noise. blockchains dont lie
11:29:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> all it takes is one to analysis the metrics to see whats broken
11:30:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> tldr. private tx on zcash almost solanad it
11:30:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> I'll wait next week for you to explain in depth
11:30:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> ty
11:30:42 <k4r4b3y[m]> btw is the explosive blockchain growth still going on in zec or nah?
11:30:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> yeah
11:31:00 <k4r4b3y[m]> oh nice
11:31:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-xmr-zec.html#1y
11:31:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> monero vs zec blocksize
11:32:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> notice how zec was always tiny before 
11:32:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactions-xmr-zec.html#1y
11:33:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> and has been doing less tx than monero the entire time
11:33:54 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: yeah
11:33:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> thats from pre zaddress usage
11:34:20 <mlcboss[m]> is it ok to use HDD for a node?
11:34:20 <mlcboss[m]> i plan to get a 500gb HDD , just incase in the future when xmr got really popular 
11:34:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> a smallnotice how txvolume now and a year ago is very similar, but blocksize is multiples larger
11:35:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> is it ok to use HDD for a node?
11:35:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> > 
11:35:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> > i plan to get a 500gb HDD , just incase in the future when xmr got really popular 
11:35:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> ssd
11:35:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> hdd no good long term without special setups
11:35:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: how can I see blockchain size graph in that website? couldn't find it
11:36:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> shoukd be that direct link(?)
11:36:21 <k4r4b3y[m]> it shows the block size
11:36:32 <k4r4b3y[m]> I would like to see the total blockchain size
11:36:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> oh blockchain size
11:38:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://blockchair.com/zcash/charts/blockchain-size
11:39:37 <mlcboss[m]> zcash have taxes wtf , why there is people still believing in this coin
11:40:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: lovely, aint she?
11:41:26 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: that lift-off lol
11:41:46 <spackle_xmr[m]> Coming up on a year. Time flies.
11:42:01 <mlcboss[m]> 888tNkZrPN6JsEgekjMnABU4TBzc2Dt29EPAvkRxbANsAnjyPbb3iQ1YBRk1UXcdRsiKc9dhwMVgN5S9cQUiyoogDavup3H
11:42:01 <mlcboss[m]> do you guys recognized this address?
11:42:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> no
11:42:25 <spackle_xmr[m]> General fund donation address.
11:42:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> ah, haha
11:42:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> spackle_xmr[m]: crazy
11:43:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> a whole year and barely anything done abiut it
11:43:53 <k4r4b3y[m]> we should accelerate
11:43:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> pretty sure their wallet scene is still atrocious (a lot dont work properly) azcash pays out a lot of money to these devs
11:44:14 <mlcboss[m]> spackle_xmr[m]: i don't get it how monero development work
11:44:14 <mlcboss[m]> is there like multiple teams & organization working on it
11:44:14 <mlcboss[m]> or only a single team cause its the only donation address i found for monero dev
11:44:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> like nighhawk wanted 50k for an explorer, but the wallet didnt work lol
11:44:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> generalfund isnt donating to any specific dev
11:45:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: lol that was the only wallet from zec-o-sphere that caught my attention
11:45:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> if you want to donate to devs directly, donate to their funding oroposaks
11:45:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> devs are independent
11:46:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> general fund is run by core team and supports dev proposals, but also manages the costs of some backend stuff 
11:46:24 <mlcboss[m]> plan to donate 10% of my reward to monero dev
11:46:24 <mlcboss[m]> without them monero is nothing 
11:46:33 <mlcboss[m]> also zcash got spammed?
11:46:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> monero development works like > person does work either for free or for d(nations
11:47:09 <spackle_xmr[m]> mlcboss: Here's the place to watch if you want to support specific developer efforts: ccs.getmonero.org/
11:47:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> nobody is a perm hire etc
11:47:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> genrral fund may never donate to devs %hat dont open a ccs
11:47:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> donate you money wherever you feel is the best fit
11:47:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> watch ccs proposals if you have specific devs or features etc that you want to support
11:49:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> even if proposals dont go through, you can still supoort the devs 
11:49:18 <k4r4b3y[m]> there was an undertaking of writing another monerod implementation in rust. anyone keeping tabs on that?
11:50:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> few months til somethibg something
11:50:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> i think will likely be libs that make iintrgrations easier 
11:50:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> not ne<essarily a full daaemon. maybe just a wallet
11:51:47 <k4r4b3y[m]> they can join forces with molly team, I guess.
11:51:56 <k4r4b3y[m]> molly is also doing their monero libs in rust, afaik
13:01:24 <plowsof11> k4r4b3y: ill just say wrong things and wait to be corrected seems to be working for  you https://github.com/mollyim/monero-wallet-sdk
13:01:58 <k4r4b3y[m]> plowsof11: yeah I am pretty good at it
13:05:07 <kayabanerve[m]> k4r4b3y: There have been multiple, none with progress.
13:06:58 <kayabanerve[m]> That's Kotlin code around wallet2, supposedly, yet I can't find the wallet2 inclusion...
13:09:50 <plowsof11> "Monerujo <-> JNI bridge <-> wallet2"
13:10:06 <plowsof11> "Molly <-> SDK client <-> SDK service <-> JNI bridge <-> wallet2"
13:11:53 <plowsof11> "only low-level functions of wallet2 are called" .. "app is responsible for managing the wallet files" .. "wallet2's handling of wallet state files and file encryption is one of its major flaws" in molly "the wallet data and keys are simply represented as byte arrays, and the app is tasked with securing the storage (files, database...) and encrypting the data"
13:12:06 <kayabanerve[m]> Ah, submodule under vendor/
13:12:36 <kayabanerve[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org: Where's that last message from?
13:12:54 <plowsof11> the developer @vall... valldrac who isnt here
13:13:52 <kayabanerve[m]> *where*
13:13:53 <kayabanerve[m]> Not who
13:14:05 <kayabanerve[m]> I knew it would be valldrac :p
13:14:16 <plowsof11> chatgbt 
13:16:26 <termer> fuggg :D
13:17:47 <plowsof11> if you want to dismantle it or something ill ask for it to be posted in a public place?
13:26:20 <kayabanerve[m]> ...  wait, were those messages chatgpt?
13:26:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> was that from no wallet left behind? i recall reading that or simikar somewhere 
13:26:27 <kayabanerve[m]> > wallet2's handling of wallet state files and file encryption is one of its major flaws
13:26:38 <kayabanerve[m]> is really not its prose. Would be shocked if those messages were.
13:27:06 <kayabanerve[m]> I solely want to know where that specific message is originally from. ofrn is suggesting NWLB
13:29:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  do you remember where?
13:31:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> <plowsof11> ""Monerujo <-> JNI bridge..." <- i swear i read this in public
13:31:55 <plowsof11> ill ask valldrac when he's around to confirm (ideally for the next NWLB meeting/github) 
13:33:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> maybe just my psychic acting on its own again 🤔
14:04:16 <Rucknium[m]> sech1: I agree with you that excluding coinbase outputs from decoy selection hasn't reached dev/community consensus yet. When I asked in an MRL meeting a few months back about "where do we go from here?" after I made my analysis, I didn't get a response.
14:04:45 <Rucknium[m]> It doesn't help that there hasn't been a -dev meeting since the August 2022 hard fork.
14:06:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> what drawback? i see none
14:06:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/drawback/drawbacks/
14:08:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> its a common sense move and considering decoy selection isnt consensus, i already run the fixes and enjoy my enhanced privacy. 
14:08:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> you could say that my rings look different, but still better than low quality anonsets
14:10:21 <k4r4b3y[m]> what about having "different puddles" of enotes as a result of this exclusion? that seems to complicate stuff
14:10:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> coinbase vs non?
14:10:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> ye
14:11:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> what about it? coinbase arent private, theyre polution
14:12:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> im in favor of going further and not add a coinbase tx type that only self spends with nodecoys
14:12:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> coinbase arent decoys
14:12:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> they are coinbsse
14:13:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> a decoy has to look like... a decoy.. not an obvious not the real tx
14:13:12 <k4r4b3y[m]> what happens to the coinbase transactions after they are created? user has to turn those into regular enotes?
14:13:41 <Rucknium[m]> There can't be a self-sustaining puddle. When coinbases are spent (just once), they enter the non-coinbase pool
14:13:48 <k4r4b3y[m]> hi valldrac !
14:13:58 <Rucknium[m]> Users should spend to themselves
14:14:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> what ruck said ^
14:14:56 <Rucknium[m]> P2Pool payouts have low privacy since the payout addresses are in plaintext on the P2Pool sidechain. Any adversary could record that data. Centralized pool outputs are announced by the centralized pools
14:16:11 <Rucknium[m]> Privacy analysis: https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/109
14:16:22 <k4r4b3y[m]> yeah I saw that
14:16:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> the current pr only cleans up non coinbase rings
14:16:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> the next issue is where im in favor of coinbase only bameing self spendable using sweep_coinbase sweep_single_coinbase that would churn to the users wallet
14:16:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> being**
14:16:56 <k4r4b3y[m]> interesting idea
14:17:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> those coinbase NOT use ringson thesweep
14:19:11 <plowsof11> Thanks Rucknium, i was looking for the 'effective ring size' graph earlier , and i see its in the 109 issue
14:19:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> currently coinbase polute anonset
14:19:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> jeffro pr changes so coinbase use coinbase for decoys, andreg tx use reg tx
14:19:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> further step would be for cb to not use decoys, self spend only, thereby making coinbase consolidations ~90% space savings and no privacy harm
14:19:28 <plowsof11> i was looking on rucknium.me and couldnt find it 
14:19:45 <plowsof11> shilled^^^^
14:20:58 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr this PR, right? https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8815
14:21:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> i believe so
14:22:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> yes that is it
14:23:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> im runningand using it on mainnet
14:25:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "P2Pool payouts have low privacy..." <- and further, true solo miners are unknown offchain
14:29:11 <plowsof11> i seen 1Ghash a second randomly appear last week on hashvault (to the person who said the big boys cant just turn up)
14:32:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> yeah lmso
14:32:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> fkn asshole had my node lagging for a few mins
14:33:13 <plowsof11> imagine if hetzner said 'keep your trash nodes off our network or we'll 51% attack your coin.. youve got until next month"
14:33:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> i thought maybe today too but havent checked
14:33:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof11: lmao
14:33:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> they just take over your D miners
14:33:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> and*
14:34:00 <plowsof11> 1cpu1vote, ill be donating 200h/s to the effort 
14:34:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> i got my wow block reorgd 💢
14:38:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> plowsof11: hey, bitcoiners have their "you should be able to run a node on muh raspi" obsession, and we have ours "you should be able to mine on muh raspi" obsession. 🤷‍♂️
14:40:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> huh
14:41:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> rasp for xmr is... self mutilation
14:41:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> rock - ok. rasp - just why
14:41:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> i use android 🤷‍♂️
14:47:36 <mlcboss[m]> is there a good full guide to start solo mining monero?
14:47:36 <mlcboss[m]> getmonero.org is not much of a help 
14:48:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> any mining pool has basic setup instructions
14:48:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> there are different typesof mining 
14:48:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> pool
14:48:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> solo
14:48:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> p2pool
14:49:33 <mlcboss[m]> i will do it tommorow i have to update my OS , Win7 not supported
14:49:50 <mlcboss[m]> Monero-gui doesn't support 32bit 
14:50:01 <Rucknium[m]> Full guide to solo mining is to type "start_mining <address> <number_of_threads>" into monerod
14:50:11 <Rucknium[m]> Or use xmrig
14:50:25 <mlcboss[m]> i probably should get more ram to run win11 
14:51:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> use linux
14:51:36 <mlcboss[m]> i can't use linux
14:51:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> unless you like to be confused when windows breaks your miner or node
14:51:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> you can, why xant ya?
14:52:57 <mlcboss[m]> isn't Windows more stable?
14:53:12 <xfedex[m]> Linux usually gives you more hashrate
14:53:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> can even install linux on a flash or external drive etc. i cant be bothered  with windows issues like "hey, why is ny clipboard showinf a different address"
14:53:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> cant even protrct you from viruses
14:53:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> but will delete YOUR zpurposely downloaded, verifuable xmrig
14:54:03 <mlcboss[m]> xfedex[m]: ok i will install it , OS really matters huh
14:54:16 <xfedex[m]> Yes, because windows is super bloated
14:54:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> its actully very aimilar, with a slight edge to windows due to more easily available tuning tools
14:55:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> but imo negligible, i care abiut hash per watt, not max hash
14:56:01 <xfedex[m]> ofrnxmr: on my device I get ~20%+ hashrate on Linux, perhaps because Windows threads suck (i have a cpu with virtual cores)
14:56:23 <mlcboss[m]> i go to linux.org , distribution shouldn't matter right?
14:56:23 <mlcboss[m]> i will pick Ubuntu cause is in the top
14:56:30 <askiiart[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> i go to linux.org , distribution shouldn't matter right?
14:56:30 <askiiart[m]> > 
14:56:30 <askiiart[m]> > i will pick Ubuntu cause is in the top
14:56:30 <askiiart[m]> Don't pick ubuntu
14:56:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> ubuntu is fine for new users
14:56:57 <askiiart[m]> Ubuntu is popular, but Canonical, the company behind it, has made some bad decisions recently. Go with Linux Mint.
14:57:17 <mlcboss[m]> askiiart[m]: ok i will pick the second option , CentOS
14:57:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> shitty snapapps etc but easy installation and best copatibility
14:57:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> mlcboss[m]: nono
14:57:28 <xfedex[m]> Ubuntu is in practice a clone of Debian, with more stuff pre-installed. For me it's fine. I'd prefer Kubuntu tho, it's Ubuntu with KDE Plasma (a cooler and more lightweight desktop environment)
14:57:50 <askiiart[m]> Linux Mint lighter, based on Ubuntu (so all the tutorials and stuff work), and has a closer interface to Windows.
14:57:56 <askiiart[m]> https://linuxmint.org/download.php
14:58:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> linuxmint is ok
14:58:11 <askiiart[m]> s/org/com/
14:58:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> but not easy updrage
14:58:15 <ceetee[m]> too many choices, I think I'll just stick with windows
14:58:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> ubuntu can be painkess for "just use it"
14:59:00 <mlcboss[m]> ceetee[m]: is it even that matters 
14:59:12 <xfedex[m]> Ubuntu/Kubuntu is just fine
14:59:24 <GorillaQuest[m]> KDE is goated
14:59:27 <mlcboss[m]> askiiart[m]: ok i will pick linux mint
14:59:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> agreed on ubuntu and kubuntu 
14:59:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> linux mint is LITERALLY an ubuntu fork
15:00:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> but with some easy of use additions, a ux nit as good as kde, and not great upgrade patb
15:00:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> i run both
15:00:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> i prefer fedora
15:00:48 <mlcboss[m]> cinnamon , mate , xfce doesn't matter right? 
15:00:48 <mlcboss[m]> it seem is just a different texture pack 
15:00:48 <mlcboss[m]> i pick cinnamon cause is in the top
15:01:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> cinnamon mate and xfce are all not grest 
15:01:11 <askiiart[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> cinnamon , mate , xfce doesn't matter right?... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/b47cecd0a7bf08a6ad941e9ccce8af9204dc015a>)
15:01:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> xfce for old school guys
15:01:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> cinnamon for windows 7 guys
15:01:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> mate for xp guys
15:01:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> kubuntu for windows 11 guyz
15:01:48 <askiiart[m]> Most accurate comparisons I've ever heard 
15:01:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> gnome for linux ppl that dont care abiut windows workflow
15:02:13 <askiiart[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Kinda Windows 11 interface but not user-hostile
15:02:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> gnome is also granny friendly, so not preferred by hardcore folks
15:02:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> askiiart[m]: yeah
15:02:54 <askiiart[m]> The icons are probably closer to Windows 11, though
15:03:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> kubuntu is nice imo. 
15:03:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> but im a gnome shell +extensions fan
15:03:31 <RavFX[m]> I ditched gnome when they released major 3 a long time ago
15:03:40 <mlcboss[m]> look the ux is doesn't matter , linux is linux
15:03:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> yeah, i gotused to the superkey launcher though
15:04:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> super easy to use. but some defaults are dumb, so extensions
15:04:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> like tiling, side dock, restore session, kdeconnect, dropdown terminal
15:05:48 <GorillaQuest[m]> KDE connect is good af
15:05:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> i used cinnamon for a while when gnome 3 was real weird
15:06:15 <RavFX[m]> I also use KDE Connect lol
15:06:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> kdeconnect is super undderrated
15:06:41 <RavFX[m]> I did try Cinnamon, Mate, even used Trinity for a while 😂
15:06:58 <RavFX[m]> Now using Plasma and XFCE (depending of the machine)
15:07:10 <mlcboss[m]> internet doesn't matter right? i basically just sending hash 
15:07:10 <mlcboss[m]> cause my internet is less than 50mbps
15:07:30 <RavFX[m]> 50MB is plenty
15:07:31 <xfedex[m]> 50mbps is a lot
15:07:44 <xfedex[m]> you can mine with less than 1 mbps
15:07:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> tldr. use kubuntu
15:08:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> kubuntu = ubuntu + KDE desktop
15:09:02 <mlcboss[m]> i don't get Linux user obsession on computer texture pack
15:09:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> its not a texture pack
15:09:16 <askiiart[m]> mlcboss: So uh fair warning: The fighting over which Linux distro is better is absolutely constant.
15:09:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> its an entire environment
15:09:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> the apps etc
15:09:33 <RavFX[m]> Been a long time I did not use Ubuntu.
15:10:10 <askiiart[m]> The actual term is "Desktop Environment"
15:10:10 <xfedex[m]> mlcboss[m]: Are you a minecraft player?
15:10:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> the underlying os is largely irrellevent to the user interfsce 
15:10:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> what changes is the rxperienxe 
15:10:10 <RavFX[m]> mlcboss[m]: Yeah, on Linux you get to chose you're desktop environment instead of having one been forced down you're throat)
15:10:11 <askiiart[m]> So like with GNOME by default you get the Nautilus file manager, the GNOME desktop, the GNOME terminal, etc
15:10:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> if you arenew tolinux,useubuntu. why? everythinf works ans has docs
15:10:49 <RavFX[m]> I have to give a new test run to Enlightenment, I use to like it a long time ago
15:10:50 <askiiart[m]> askiiart[m]: But Linux is free (in beer and speech), so if you don't like the terminal, for example, you could install Kitty instead
15:10:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> like, if you try to build monero, its easier to find ubuntu guides than anything else
15:11:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> and those guide will teach you how to do it on otber distros
15:11:06 <ceetee[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: noted
15:11:15 <mlcboss[m]> monero gui is only on PC? 
15:11:33 <askiiart[m]> mlcboss[m]: wdym? I'm running the Monero wallet on Linux right now
15:11:37 <mlcboss[m]> they should release on mobile tbh , cause you can do payment anywhere easily
15:11:43 <RavFX[m]> If you want to build monero, so easier on Gentoo
15:11:43 <RavFX[m]> All the dependencies and dev crust are already installed :p
15:11:51 <askiiart[m]> * Monero wallet GUI on Linux
15:12:25 <ceetee[m]> there are mobile wallets, just not the official GUI wallet
15:12:47 <askiiart[m]> ceetee[m]: I use Monerujo, it's pretty good
15:12:51 <RavFX[m]> But yeah, Ubuntu have a big community of people documenting it.
15:12:51 <RavFX[m]> So is Arch Linux
15:13:13 <askiiart[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> But yeah, Ubuntu have a big community of people documenting it.
15:13:13 <askiiart[m]> > So is Arch Linux
15:13:13 <askiiart[m]> Arch is *extreme* modularity, I wouldn't recommend it for beginners, but it has fantastic docs
15:13:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> arch wiki is amazing, arch is not so simple
15:13:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> arch wiki has all the answers when tou cant find elsewhere thiugh
15:13:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> ar least, will lead you down the right path
15:14:09 <askiiart[m]> I hate to interrupt, but can someone help me with XMRig? I'm running xmrig-md, and I'm getting `FAILED TO APPLY MSR MOD, HASHRATE WILL BE LOW`.
15:14:09 <askiiart[m]> Under CPU it says `11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-11300H @ 3.10GHz (1) 64-bit AES`, not a VM CPU, and I'm also running it as root.
15:14:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> startas admin
15:14:17 <RavFX[m]> YEah, even to fix Gentoo or other, often endup using the Arch doc
15:14:24 <mlcboss[m]> xfedex[m]: i stopped 5 years ago after mojang stop supporting PS3
15:14:24 <mlcboss[m]> it was my first game btw
15:14:25 <RavFX[m]> And adjust 
15:14:35 <askiiart[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: admin = root
15:14:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> > <@askiiart:plantsfarmus.duckdns.org> I hate to interrupt, but can someone help me with XMRig? I'm running xmrig-md, and I'm getting `FAILED TO APPLY MSR MOD, HASHRATE WILL BE LOW`.
15:14:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> > Under CPU it says `11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-11300H @ 3.10GHz (1) 64-bit AES`, not a VM CPU, and I'm also running it as root.
15:14:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> start as admin
15:14:49 <xfedex[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> i stopped 5 years ago after mojang stop supporting PS3
15:14:49 <xfedex[m]> > 
15:14:49 <xfedex[m]> > it was my first game btw
15:14:49 <xfedex[m]> Hehe, the term "texture pack" clearly comes from minecraft :)
15:14:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> yeah
15:14:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> sudo
15:15:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> apt in an example of "why ubuntu"
15:15:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> a lot of install instructions dont even list packages for non debian
15:15:58 <askiiart[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Do you not know the most basic function of sudo, or can you not read?
15:16:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> hah?
15:16:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> are you asking qs or me?
15:16:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> run it as admin / sudo 
15:16:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> stfu and report back
15:16:43 <askiiart[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: sudo runs whatever you're doing as root. I already said I'm running as root in my original message.
15:16:47 <xfedex[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: He already said "and I'm also running it as root."
15:16:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> well what os
15:17:00 <mlcboss[m]> ceetee[m]: can't find any open source wallet on f-droid
15:17:13 <RavFX[m]> askiiart[m]: You running on a hypervisor or something?
15:17:20 <askiiart[m]> mlcboss[m]: Add the monerujo repo to F-Droid
15:17:22 <askiiart[m]> monerujo.io
15:17:28 <xfedex[m]> mlcboss[m]: monerujo is open source and also on fdroid i think
15:17:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> lol @rav
15:17:30 <askiiart[m]> RavFX[m]: Nope, I'm on bare metal
15:17:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> and whatos
15:17:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> same convo
15:17:49 <ceetee[m]> mlcboss[m]: monerujo and stack wallet habe a repo each that you can add to the fdroid app
15:17:52 <askiiart[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Fedora 37
15:18:18 <askiiart[m]> mlcboss: https://f-droid.monerujo.io/
15:18:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> check xmrig docs and see if fedora neesa manuak xonfig
15:18:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> sech1: 
15:18:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> (same xonvo @rav - ubuntu for compat)
15:18:43 <mlcboss[m]> local monero isn't wallet right? and local monero is a company that hold my funds?
15:18:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> yes, not a wallet
15:19:16 <monerobull[m]> Bridgerton?
15:19:17 <monerobull[m]> Hey, welcome back buddy :)
15:19:43 <mlcboss[m]> askiiart[m]: thanks
15:19:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> cake wallet, monero.com (stable)
15:19:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerujo (buggy sometimes), stack wallet (beta)
15:21:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> specifically monerujo likes to corruot wallets (randomly) and stack has ghosts that pop up as soon as i think its good
15:21:22 <xfedex[m]> Stack Wallet is also nice
15:21:39 <xfedex[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Ghosts?
15:21:42 <ceetee[m]> for light use any app is fine
15:21:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> my stack jssue atm is that restoring a backup seems to .. mess somehying up
15:22:02 <ceetee[m]> never had problems with monerujo or stack
15:22:09 <mlcboss[m]> i will pick monerujo because open source and less taking my space
15:22:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> wallets dont sync reliablt anymore
15:22:16 <askiiart[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Nope, just run as root it says. I downloaded the script that actually does that, and it outputted this:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e60b4c0ac4c37dd033389feb759c209a1b0491b4>)
15:22:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> moneujo has had the corruption issie forever
15:22:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> but i experieced ir for myself like4xbefore i believed kr
15:22:39 <askiiart[m]> > <@askiiart:plantsfarmus.duckdns.org> Nope, just run as root it says. I downloaded the script that actually does that, and it outputted this:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/74aafac1a053610b240d3a0405eb9a81cc059b88>)
15:22:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> it basicallt logs you out, says wrong password and wont let you back in
15:23:18 <stradman> is there some benchmarking to find my gpu/cpu hash rate ?
15:23:23 <askiiart[m]> > <@askiiart:plantsfarmus.duckdns.org> Nope, just run as root it says. I downloaded the script that actually does that, and it outputted this:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/662792b680ea0d0494103a00c89b1b362017be65>)
15:23:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> askiiart[m]: there are docs to set manuallt
15:23:29 <RavFX[m]> > <@askiiart:plantsfarmus.duckdns.org> Nope, just run as root it says. I downloaded the script that actually does that, and it outputted this:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2cab2746fd43d7605f1ae8e9e5950fe06dba1938>)
15:24:15 <askiiart[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> msr kernel module loaded?
15:24:15 <askiiart[m]> > Because should work if you are in root. Or maybe it's some security policies
15:24:15 <askiiart[m]> Yeah, I've got the kernel module loaded, like I said above, gonna try disabling secure boot, brb
15:24:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: you can just mine some xmr or run the xmrig.com/benchmark
15:25:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> mine aome xmr= download xmrig, a wallet, go to a mining pool and run xmrig with your wallet addresand pool address
15:25:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> or go to that website
15:26:01 <stradman> some resource of step by step guides from ground up ?
15:26:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> and search for your cpu
15:26:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> other people have likely already benchmarked it
15:26:34 <stradman> This is RandomX algo right ?
15:26:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> yea
15:26:56 <stradman> Nice !
15:27:10 <stradman> I see my model has around 1.8KH/s
15:27:15 <mlcboss[m]> can we talk about other coin or no? 
15:27:15 <mlcboss[m]> is Ethereum now centralized , i kinda worried about EF seem they are controlled by venture capitalist & exchanges
15:27:15 <mlcboss[m]> proof of stake benefits them the most
15:27:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-offtopic:monero.social  for eth
15:28:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> brain rot talking about wet water
15:29:51 <askiiart[m]> <askiiart[m]> "> <@askiiart:plantsfarmus...." <- Update: yeah, it was secure boot
15:30:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> like "didya know that when you cut grass its actually shorter after? lets talk  abiut this phenomenon"😆😆 *eth is just 1 letter short of traitor
15:30:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> askiiart[m]: good to know
15:30:47 <stradman> How much can I get in monero in 2KH/s ?
15:31:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> depends whatyour goals are
15:31:24 <stradman> getting some monero :), don't want payout
15:31:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> are you trying to makemoney withthat? not happening
15:31:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> some monero monero.herominers.com
15:31:47 <stradman> no not monwy
15:31:51 <askiiart[m]> stradman: According to coinwarz's calculator, 0.00033908 XMR per day
15:31:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> thrres a calc at the bottom
15:32:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> i mine simply to accumulate xmr 
15:32:37 <stradman> that's my intentions too
15:32:44 <stradman> Do I need fast internet too ?
15:32:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> i pay out of pocket 
15:32:56 <RavFX[m]> converting the surplus of electricity into more XMR accumulation
15:33:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: not necessarily. you want good latency
15:33:11 <mlcboss[m]> i don't get the hype for proof of stake , some or planned pow coins migration to proof of stake
15:33:11 <mlcboss[m]> its literally printing money with air , plus only venture capitalist & exchanges has the power to do that 
15:33:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> its just federal reserve 2.0 next question
15:33:32 <RavFX[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> i don't get the hype for proof of stake , some or planned pow coins migration to proof of stake
15:33:32 <RavFX[m]> > 
15:33:32 <RavFX[m]> > its literally printing money with air , plus only venture capitalist & exchanges has the power to do that
15:33:32 <RavFX[m]> It's just a Proof of Scam, please ignore!
15:33:51 <stradman> where is the calculator ofrnxmr[m] ?
15:33:58 <mlcboss[m]> is not possible right for monero to change it's protocol? 
15:34:06 <mlcboss[m]> *consensus
15:34:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: very bottom
15:34:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> "estimate mining profits"
15:35:23 <stradman> I see 1.58 bucks monthly, not bad eh
15:36:35 <stradman> Now should I buy monero or wownero (fork of monero )?
15:37:26 <mlcboss[m]> stradman: monero , more utilities for it and more demand for it
15:37:26 <mlcboss[m]> more liquid market also
15:37:49 <stradman> Can I use it for donations ?
15:38:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> yes
15:39:06 <mlcboss[m]> stradman: monero is accept as donations more than wownero
15:39:06 <mlcboss[m]> just don't put money on random forks unless you like having fun burning money
15:39:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> wownero isnt rsndom
15:39:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> but its also not serious
15:39:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> so it doesnt hurt to have $20of wow
15:40:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> but dont expect it to somehow replwce xmr
15:40:47 <stradman> So let's mine monero first and then we can dive into wow, same mining software ?
15:41:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> same miner yer
15:41:35 <mlcboss[m]> it the same as bitcoin gold or random bitcoin forks will replacing bitcoin 
15:41:35 <mlcboss[m]> is just for folks who aren't serious with their money and having fun burning money on random coins 
15:41:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> its just for xmr folks to mess around eitg blockchain 
15:41:56 <stradman> Why burning money, electricity ?
15:42:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> and not really worry about lost seeds or bugs
15:42:50 <stradman> but from a laptop i guess you can't burn a lot of electricity, right ?
15:43:03 <mlcboss[m]> stradman: is up to you bud , if you love wasting money and electricity to have wownero 
15:43:23 <stradman> where is the wasting money coming from ?
15:43:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> not much mkre than gaming
15:43:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> and its not mining for nothinf
15:44:09 <stradman> so I start at getmonero.org right ?
15:44:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> shitcoin mining can be wastinf moner
15:44:13 <mlcboss[m]> stradman: buying them , paying for electricity , paying for mining hardware
15:44:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> getmonero.org for the desktop software for a wallet, node and p2pool
15:44:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> xmrig.com if you dont need a desktop wallet or node or p2pool
15:44:59 <RavFX[m]> use the hardware you own, that way the hardware is virtually free
15:45:03 <stradman> I am not gonna buy them, I mine at my laptop, no special hardware and how much electricity can a laptop take, less than a freezer anyhow
15:45:37 <stradman> ofrnxmr[m] : would I do without a wallet ?
15:45:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> heat is the biggest issue with laptop mining
15:45:48 <RavFX[m]> move between the tropics and convert to solar > No more relying on the state for power and ton of surplus to "burn"
15:46:00 <nioc> put laptop in freezer, keeps it cool
15:46:16 <stradman> lol
15:46:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: i have eveey wallet installed,but i typicalky use mobile wallet for everything
15:46:44 <stradman> I put dry ice on the laptop vents, no liquid damage then
15:46:51 <nioc> nice
15:47:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> you dont need a desktoo wallet to mine, all you need is a wallet address and xmrig
15:47:25 <stradman> so I can get myself a mobile wallet too ?
15:47:25 <RavFX[m]> stradman: Fill you're living room with carbon monoxide :D
15:47:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> yup
15:47:51 <nioc> it stays on floor, np
15:48:07 <stradman> I can't find CO anywhere apart from the garage
15:48:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> go step 1: do you want to run a node?
15:48:21 <nioc> wait, you mean CO2
15:48:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> so*
15:48:31 <stradman> umm, node ?
15:48:46 <stradman> you mean not a part of pool
15:48:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> if yes, do you also want to run the officiak desktop wallet?
15:49:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> nide = store w copy of the blockchain and verify blocks (60-160gb)
15:49:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> store a*
15:49:52 <mlcboss[m]> stradman: if it's an old laptop ok , i suggest dont mine it on your personal computer
15:49:52 <mlcboss[m]> especially if you want to mine long enough on a laptop , the heat is bad for your laptop 
15:50:23 <stradman> God, it requires so much storage ?
15:50:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> the entire blovkchain does, yes
15:50:44 <RavFX[m]> it's only ~160GB
15:50:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> but you dont need it
15:50:55 <stradman> thank god
15:50:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> RavFX[m]: 60gb pruned
15:51:39 <stradman> when was the change to randomX brought ?
15:52:48 <luna24[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> I wonder why monero PoW uses CPU instead of GPU... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e24f142f590ad0b3aa76b7047e78fbf2053e281d>)
15:55:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> n uhm. asic = [a]pplication [s]pecific [i]ntegrated [c]ircuit , not analog circuit dedicated etc
15:55:04 <stradman> what mobile wallet can I get ?
15:55:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> cake and monero.com are my top rec right now
15:55:33 <luna24[m]> For monero?
15:55:40 <stradman> yeah monero
15:56:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerujo #2 
15:56:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> and stack pending #2-1 after its reliable
15:56:26 <luna24[m]> I’d prolly say cake tbh
15:56:58 <luna24[m]> Monerujo
15:57:01 <mlcboss[m]> luna24[m]: i believed elon start pumping doge before twitter 
15:57:01 <mlcboss[m]> doge it the second PoW coin
15:57:01 <mlcboss[m]> Ethereum has moves to PoS and doge planned to be PoS too 
15:57:03 <luna24[m]> Is a good one as well
15:57:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> cake and monero.com are the same bte. monero.com doesnt include btc, haven, ltc etc. dotcom is moneo only
15:57:46 <luna24[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org> i believed elon start pumping doge before twitter... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/49bd0c74df30f1feeebf86ecff733763dcddd81e>)
15:57:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> doge is a real coin
15:58:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> and is almost as decentralized as ltc
15:58:41 <luna24[m]> Ether has been “moving to PoS” for like 6 years now and you still can’t unstake coins. Some people have had there coins stuck being staked to the chain since 2021
15:58:56 <luna24[m]> Ltc is a shitty alt btc
15:59:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2021-present does feel like 6 years doesnt it?
15:59:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> meeting time. fast one
15:59:23 <luna24[m]> Doge moving to PoS will kill the network
15:59:23 <plowsof11> boom
15:59:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> luna24[m]: still works better than btc
15:59:37 <GorillaQuest[m]> pos is a pos
15:59:47 <luna24[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Was using it as an example from when PoS for eth was proposed to beginning to be added 
16:00:02 <luna24[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Legit anything is better then btc
16:00:28 <stradman> and literally downloading and running xmrig is all I need to do ?
16:00:34 <luna24[m]> Btc is only popular cuz it was the first coin and people are too lazy to research into other coins and projects
16:00:52 <mlcboss[m]> luna24[m]:  no , PoS coins are crap 
16:00:52 <mlcboss[m]> if it PoS i will not put my money to it
16:00:56 <luna24[m]> It’s basically impossible to mine now a days anyways with how hard the algorithms have become
16:01:14 <luna24[m]> stradman: Yuh
16:01:24 <stradman> wow that's simple !
16:01:49 <luna24[m]> > <@mlcboss:matrix.org>  no , PoS coins are crap 
16:01:50 <luna24[m]> > 
16:01:50 <luna24[m]> > if it PoS i will not put my money to it
16:01:50 <luna24[m]> I don’t think all PoS coins are shit, polygon and polkadot are good examples 
16:02:24 <mlcboss[m]> they literally printing money with air 
16:02:35 <luna24[m]> Polka specifically is a good network to support since it was the first like “official” multichain bridge between networks
16:03:04 <luna24[m]> mlcboss[m]: So I take it you don’t know how PoS works 💀
16:05:14 <luna24[m]> https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/cryptocurrency/proof-of-stake/
16:05:40 <stradman> Monero.com by Cake Wallet is a fork of Cake Wallet that only allows you to store XMR on the device, but you can exchange XMR for other assets. What assests ?
16:06:52 <mlcboss[m]> luna24[m]: i don't fall into crypto buzzwords
16:09:11 <luna24[m]> PoS isn’t a buzzword, it’s a consensus model lmao
16:09:37 <luna24[m]> Solana uses PoH which is rooted on PoS but uses “time” to have faster network speeds
16:09:58 <mlcboss[m]> luna24[m]: and yet it flawed
16:09:58 <luna24[m]> Atm solana has the fastest network with an ungodly amount of transactions a second that it has yet to hit
16:10:18 <luna24[m]> mlcboss[m]: That’s cuz it’s tryna become ether
16:11:44 <luna24[m]> Like I said, polygon and polkadot are the best PoS networks imo
16:12:29 <luna24[m]> Polygon gave us kusama which is the best network for a cheap way for dapp devs to test there shit
16:12:55 <luna24[m]> And polkadot is the only massive bridge between all networks that helped give us uniswap 🤷🏻‍♂️
16:13:26 <luna24[m]> Imo they are both massive players in keeping decentralization afloat next to monero
16:13:33 <mlcboss[m]> luna24[m]: consensus model that reward and controlled by venture capitalist & insiders
16:15:09 <luna24[m]> Hence why PoS doge will kill yeh network with how cheap the coins are
16:15:22 <luna24[m]> And eth moving PoS is just as bad
16:16:11 <luna24[m]> Main reason either was even as popular as it was is cuz it brought in NFTs (scams) and it was easy to mine
16:17:33 <luna24[m]> mlcboss[m]: But nah, you get rewards from transaction fees on the network cuz staking verity’s blocks, 
16:17:35 <luna24[m]> Verifies*
16:25:29 <stradman> Do I have to join a pool or can go solo ?
16:26:25 <luna24[m]> stradman: Pool is the way if you have a single miner, if you have a good amount then solo 🤷🏻‍♂️
16:26:49 <stradman> single miner as in single client ?
16:26:59 <luna24[m]> Single rig
16:27:05 <luna24[m]> 1cpu per miner
16:27:10 <mlcboss[m]> <luna24[m]> "Like I said, polygon and..." <- why do you belief on centralized blockchain? 
16:27:10 <mlcboss[m]> isn't the point of a blockchain should be decentralized?
16:27:10 <mlcboss[m]> polygon only has 100 active validators and a blockchain product selled by a company 
16:27:42 <stradman> So since I am mining on laptop, pool is the way to go?
16:27:44 <luna24[m]> They aren’t centralized lol,
16:29:09 <luna24[m]> And I didn’t say I believe in polygon, just that it’s a good example of PoS done right since without it we wouldn’t have the best test bench chain, kusama, for dapp devs to utalize since most chains now utalize an EVM
16:29:21 <stradman> xmrig doesn't allow single mining it seems
16:29:24 <luna24[m]> Polkadot and monero I believe in atm
16:29:43 <luna24[m]> stradman: To single mine you can use the gui wallet in advanced mode 
16:30:17 <stradman> desktop wallet ?
16:30:19 <luna24[m]> Or own your own node to mine to
16:30:20 <luna24[m]> 🤷🏻‍♂️
16:30:27 <luna24[m]> Yuh
16:30:50 <luna24[m]> https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/
16:30:50 <stradman> I can't get my own node, 60 gb commitment is too mcuh
16:31:01 <luna24[m]> 😂😂😂
16:31:20 <luna24[m]> It’s like 160gbs for the full blockchain homie
16:31:32 <luna24[m]> Just prune it though and you should be good
16:31:56 <stradman> But on my laptop, I can't mine solo right ?
16:32:06 <luna24[m]> You can
16:32:27 <stradman> then why people go to pools ?
16:33:00 <luna24[m]> Solo mining you are trying to find a block limited by your own hashrate
16:33:17 <luna24[m]> A pool is the combined power of all rigs
16:33:34 <stradman> does monero have discord too ?
16:33:39 <luna24[m]> So it’s found faster, securing the network better, and rewards all workers
16:34:04 <luna24[m]> stradman: Yuh, but they use bridges to connect them to matrix 
16:34:31 <stradman> what's monero's discord server at ? u have invite link ?
16:35:21 <luna24[m]> Not atm
16:35:33 <luna24[m]> If you want more help with mining this is a good group
16:35:35 <luna24[m]> https://matrix.to/#/%23xmrmine%3Amatrix.org
16:35:41 <stradman> thx
16:37:28 <stradman> and for solo mine you need to make that few GBs of space commitment ?
16:37:30 <luna24[m]> Np
16:38:16 <luna24[m]> stradman: Yeh, if you can’t store the full chain, then a pruned chain will work 
16:38:32 <stradman> how much space is the pruned chain ?
16:41:41 <merope1> 60GB right now
16:41:49 <merope1> Don't mine solo unless you have > 200 kH/s
16:42:06 <stradman> so what's the best pool to go with now ?
16:42:07 <merope1> Otherwise it will take you years to find anything
16:42:33 <merope1> stradman: P2pool. You can use a public remote node if you don't want to run your own 
16:42:37 <stradman> I see merope1
16:43:17 <merope1> Otherwise, pick a mid-sized PPLNS pool from here: https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero
16:43:41 <stradman> I don't see P2pool in the config maker of xmrig
16:44:07 <merope1> Like xmrpool.eu or moneroocean
16:44:44 <merope1> stradman: P2pool is a decentralized pool, you have to download a program to run it
16:45:01 <merope1> https://p2pool.io/#help
16:45:04 <stradman> how's herominers.com pool ?
16:46:04 <merope1> Not familiar with it, or the PROP payout scheme
16:46:43 <merope1> Gotta go
17:04:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> herominers is no good
17:05:25 <stradman> nanopool ?
17:05:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> supportxmr, moneroocean, monerohash, monerop, monerod are good
17:06:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> good but id avoid nano, hashvauld and even support xmr, and id use moneroocean or a smaller pool
17:06:53 <luna24[m]> I like monero ocean when I did mine
17:07:03 <luna24[m]> I plan on mining using a cluster tho
17:07:06 <stradman> https://xmrig.com/wizard#pools : I am selecting the pools from here
17:07:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> moneroocean js nice because you can switch to mining a shitcoin if you want to make more xmr 
17:07:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> or you can mine xmr directly 
17:12:08 <luna24[m]> Yuh
17:12:28 <luna24[m]> I plan on turning the ravencoin I mine to xmr lol,
17:13:12 <stradman> Do I have to specify algorithm while adding moneroocean ?
17:14:27 <luna24[m]> On the cluster of 5 libre renegade boards I’m making, I’d get around 75MH/s
17:14:57 <luna24[m]> Which isn’t a lot but mining in a pool with it should be pretty profitable lol
17:15:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: rx/0
17:15:38 <stradman> cool
17:16:38 <stradman> what's tls ?
17:16:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> scratch that
17:16:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> no algo
17:16:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> tls is https (vs htp)
17:17:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> add name of your coin algorithm at the end of miner password field after ~ character, like this: worker_name~k12. The list of supported algorithms can be found at 
17:18:42 <stradman> did I need to give password too ?
17:19:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> so for paffword ou write 
17:19:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> nickname~rx/0
17:20:28 <stradman> and the nickname would be ?
17:20:34 <stradman> I'm sorry I'm just new to this
17:22:02 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (60KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/VuMppjslQZrBvIMVfeCwsdyr/tqf3toi75ct0gebg.jpg >
17:22:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> nickname can be whatever you want
17:22:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> example 
17:22:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> laptop~rx/0
17:23:42 <stradman> gr8
17:23:53 <stradman> enable tld too right ?
17:24:22 <stradman> *tls
17:26:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> is you enable tls, use 20128 instead of 10128
17:27:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> actually use 20032 or 20064
17:28:02 <stradman> maybe i'll just leave it alone then
17:28:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> 10032 (SSL 20032): 32000 diff (500-1000 h/s)
17:28:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> 10064 (SSL 20064): 64000 diff (1000-2000 h/s)
17:28:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> 10128 (SSL 20128): 128000 diff (2000-4000 h/s)
17:28:37 <stradman> thx
17:29:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://moneroocean.stream
17:29:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> youll put your address in there to view your status, change payout settings etc
17:30:05 <stradman> alrightyy
17:30:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> and help > faq has a lot of info
17:31:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> like how to switch to a different coin 
17:31:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> (you always get paid in xmr)
17:31:35 <stradman> that's fine by me
17:38:35 <stradman> if I quit the client midway, do I lose all progress ?
17:39:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> no, but you want to keep mining for longer than the pplns period
17:39:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> youll keep getting paid after you stop mining 
17:39:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> but you are paid depending on your contibution in the time leading up to blocks being found 
17:40:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> if no blocks are found in 3 days, you wont get paid. 
17:40:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> you paid paid for your average effort 
17:40:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> within the "window" of time
17:42:16 <stradman> the thing is I don't have the minimum payout of 0.03 XMR when i quit, so can quit before pplns period ?
17:47:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> such is the life of pool mining
17:47:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> you cwnt cash out beyond the minimum payment if any pool
17:48:40 <stradman> yeah, so if i like get 0.01 XMR and quit the client, next time I tart the client, do i start from 0 or 0.01 XMR ?
17:50:29 <noloss[m]> "Just get a Glock!" But which one should you buy? We cover our pick of the best Glock models across all calibers and sizes.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/63748a36bf4004a7da83381c71c517059a03c2cb>)
17:54:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> #huh?
17:55:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> not sure we have a room for that block of text
17:55:45 <stradman> Will the client again start from 0 or from where it left off previously like 0.0001XMR ?
17:55:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> "we accept xmr"?
17:56:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> your*
17:56:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: no, youre accumulated xmr will remain ultil you hit the payout limit (or a limit that you set)
17:56:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> it will pick up where it left off
17:56:59 <stradman> so it will accumulate at the pool servers right ?
17:57:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> technically kore be.auae you keep getting paid after yiu stop
17:57:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: right
17:57:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> thats why theyre "centralized" pools
17:57:38 <stradman> I get it now
17:57:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> they hold the money and the hashrate
17:58:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> mining xmr directly on moneroocean has very low or no fees iirc
17:58:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> help page shou\d show all of that
18:00:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> over 4xmr withdraw is free (ahaha) 
18:00:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> less than that with a withdrawal fee (i dont know what it is)
18:02:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> check out monerod.org as well
18:03:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> not sure what their limits are, but no fees 
18:05:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> ive personally used moneroocean (everyone knows about moneroocean) but monerod sounds nice too
18:49:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> just going to leave this here... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2c9f3a0f0ad361b3db718833bdf082de42ee600b>)
18:49:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> some crazy people use tor on 18083, zmq on 18084, and i2p on 18085678 #cringe
18:50:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> zmq on 18082 and 18083
18:50:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> anon networks on 18084 and 18085
18:53:10 <merope1> <ofrnxmr[m]> "check out monerod.org as well" <- That one always seemed pretty sketchy to me
18:53:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> same, but they updated templates as soon as i contacted them
18:53:35 <merope1> They even have their forked version of xmrig where they redirect the dev fee to their own pool 
18:53:50 <TrasherDK[m]> <Guest3000> "how to retrieve hash and..." <- Can someone, with more patience than me, explain how communication with a monerod thingy works?
18:54:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> the dev fee pays for the raffle iirc
18:54:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> TrasherDK[m]: from daemon and not roc? im confused
18:54:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> rpc*
18:55:01 <merope1> ofrnxmr[m]: Yeah, and no way to actually verify
18:55:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> if youre on the host, i guess you dont need rpc
18:55:45 <merope1> ofrnxmr[m]: All (non-p2p) communication with the node goes through the rpc port
18:55:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> ive never used tgem, only that ut seems like they keep the lights on with the raffle but i assume the other miners are ok
18:56:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> ive heard horror stories of solopool.org thiugh, so i dont trust grifter pools
18:56:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> i was an xmrvsbeast or moneroocean miner befire, liberty-pool for a while (low hr moneroocean fork)
18:57:56 <merope1> ofrnxmr[m]: If the raffle hashrate only comes from the miners, then *at best* the miners earn the same amount overall as if they had a 0% dev fee and the whole thing is just a marketing gimmick. IF they're actually honest
18:58:55 <merope1> Otherwise they'd have to pay out if their own pockets to add hashrate to it
18:59:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> nono
18:59:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> i think the raffle pays them too
18:59:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> like donate 10%, we give back 5 to randdom miners
19:00:52 <stradman> I don't know why but my hashrates are no closer to the ones specified on the bechmarking sites
19:01:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> as reoorted by xmrig?
19:01:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> in the terminal, press h
19:01:43 <merope1> stradman: The top numbers you see there are extreme overclockers doing their thing
19:01:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> top benchmarks are, if course, tuned by people chasing top numbers
19:02:11 <stradman> I am using hardwaee that's not overclockable
19:02:16 <stradman> *hardware
19:02:17 <merope1> Often stable just long enough to run the benchmark
19:02:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: less teach more learn
19:02:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> what is your hr
19:02:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> and cpu
19:03:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> as reported by xmrig when you press h
19:03:39 <stradman> Max hashrate is reaching 140 H/s on my old laptop with i3 while benchmarkers reported over 300H/s
19:03:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2k advertised on benchmark, you are seeing invizible ________ numbers. hard to help if you dont soeak
19:03:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> h e l l o
19:04:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> answer qs 
19:04:21 <stradman> hello ?
19:04:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> i3? theres like 70 of them
19:05:03 <stradman> Intel® Core™ i3-3217U
19:05:36 <merope1> Don't even bother with that 
19:05:45 <TrasherDK[m]> <xfedex[m]> "Monero follows Satoshi's..." <- While that is somewhat true, it's not (any CPU = one Vote). You will need some specialized hardware, to be competitive in the XMR mining game. Peps will tell you stories about, how the mined a block, on a car radio, but also tell you, if you hit nothing, it's just bad luck. Hashrate matters. The more H/s you can produce, the better luck you have. High hashrate cost money. Cope.
19:06:45 <merope1> It's not luck, it's statistics
19:07:12 <stradman> the new rig has i5-1135G7
19:07:18 <merope1> While cpus are not all equal, they are all accessible to regular consumers
19:07:24 <stradman> and a mobile Nvidia GeForce MX430
19:07:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: very bad hr
19:07:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> i get more on my phone
19:07:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> and my car radio
19:07:45 <stradman> even the new i5 is bad ?
19:07:58 <merope1> stradman: Still pretty bad. Intel sucks for mining 
19:08:09 <merope1> stradman: Not useful for mining Monero 
19:08:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> power to hashrate, not great
19:09:01 <stradman> dear o dear
19:09:44 <stradman> are CPU heat limited? Like from the OEM ?
19:10:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> all throttle if they get hitter than soec
19:10:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> some are designed to ganfle higher heats and ocerclocjs
19:10:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> you should be undervolting and underclocking thiugh
19:10:50 <stradman> if I cool more, will I get higher hashes ?
19:10:56 <merope1> stradman: No, it's about power efficiency of the cpu architecture. Ryzen is 2x more efficient
19:11:31 <TrasherDK[m]> <k4r4b3y[m]> "I don't think CPU mining stops..." <- Is that why those cloud dev preachers, complain about slow start-up time for their functions. Sorry bro, we'll run your lambda, after the next block 🤣
19:11:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: undervolt and you get more hashes per watt
19:11:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> and lower temps
19:12:03 <stradman> won't I even get 0.03 XMR (minimum payout) with the 100 so hashes ?
19:12:18 <merope1> In a few years maybe
19:12:24 <k4r4b3y[m]> TrasherDK[m]: "well you gotta do the math on that next block earnings vs the hourly fee that we get from the customers..."
19:12:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> stradman: wuth that, just find anither use
19:12:45 <stradman> few year, alright
19:13:03 <stradman> another use ?
19:13:14 <merope1> k4r4b3y[m]: Unironically yes. And you will quickly find that they earn far more by renting out the cpu time than by actually mining
19:13:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> p2pool perhaps. it a media server
19:13:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> or*
19:15:09 <stradman> where do you rent out CPU time ?
19:17:16 <merope1> stradman: I'm talking about cloud providers
19:17:31 <merope1> There was a time when mining on a vps was profitable
19:17:44 <stradman> oh !
19:18:13 <merope1> But that's not a thing anymore
19:18:40 <merope1> Most of them ban you if you do it, and even if they don't it still costs 10x more than you earn
19:19:33 <stradman> well let my i3 mine, some exercise for the old guy
19:22:47 <merope1> Hope you're not paying for the electricity that it uses
19:23:09 <stradman> I do, but hope it doesn't use much
19:23:41 <merope1> Well, it's a weak cpu
19:24:07 <merope1> But you're paying ~2-3x what you'll earn (at today's price)
19:25:02 <stradman> i'll not earn anything for a week, so 2-3x $0 = $0 :)
19:25:13 <k4r4b3y[m]> why didn't browser-mining catch on? it could be a very viable alternative to ad-revenue-based internet model...
19:25:13 <stradman> 0 pay
19:26:20 <merope1> k4r4b3y[m]: Bad actors had the incentive to sneak miners everywhere and abuse their users, so the whole thing got a terrible reputation from the start
19:26:36 <merope1> But that was with the old Cryptonight algo
19:27:41 <merope1> RandomX has the 2GB ram requirement on top of that, and an entire custom VM. Emulating all that in JS is a non-starter
19:28:01 <k4r4b3y[m]> yeah, I forgot about that with randomx
19:28:26 <k4r4b3y[m]> apart from that, why didn't pay-with-hash-to-use model with Monero public nodes catch on?
19:28:43 <k4r4b3y[m]> it is also another good idea imo.. could incentivize the node operators
19:29:11 <merope1> Few know about it, and even fewer ever bothered setting it up
19:29:59 <k4r4b3y[m]> do wallets support that (other than the monero-cli ) ?
19:30:31 <merope1> Plus, the odds of anyone finding a block in just a few hashes are so low that it's not really self-sustaining without many users
19:30:41 <merope1> It would be even cooler to see that feature combined with p2pool-mini, given the much greater ease of finding a share
19:30:51 <merope1> k4r4b3y[m]: Not that I know of
19:31:21 <k4r4b3y[m]> merope1: yeah
19:49:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> <k4r4b3y[m]> "apart from that, why didn't pay..." <- thats why
19:49:40 <k4r4b3y[m]> makes sense
19:50:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> hard to make sense of the opposite
23:29:24 <LikWidChz> Hello, I am finding pretty weird conflicting results here and i'm sure the answer is pretty easy. I see you can mine Monero with a GPU, for some reason I thought RandomX could only be used on CPU.
23:40:12 <selsta> LikWidChz: you can doesn't mean it's a good idea
23:40:23 <selsta> it's slower on GPUs
23:41:08 <LikWidChz> like how slow is it? I have a 5950x and it does ~13000 h/s I also have OLD OLD OLD 660TI's
23:44:15 <selsta> LikWidChz: https://1stminingrig.com/how-to-mine-monero-randomx-with-cpu-gpu/
23:44:25 <selsta> this has a couple example GPUs and their randomx hashrate
23:45:17 <nioc> not only slow but very inefficient 
23:45:25 <LikWidChz> heh you were right, not even worth it.
23:45:40 <LikWidChz> I am mining with 12x orange pi 5's and my 5950x.
23:47:26 <LikWidChz> other question you ever use hashvault?
23:49:05 <LikWidChz> It has a solo mine option and I'm not quite sure how to use that.. I see options where you can solo mine directly to your wallet, but then I have been on other pools with other coins where you solo mine to the pool?
23:49:10 <LikWidChz> not sure which/what is better
23:49:20 <selsta> if you solo mine you shouldn't use a pool
23:49:53 <selsta> either use p2pool if you want frequent payouts or just solo mine directly into your wallet
23:50:17 <selsta> but i'm not familiar with hashvault solo mine option
23:51:11 <LikWidChz> well I have my payouts set at .003XMR and it takes ~like a day ish or less to hit that
23:51:48 <LikWidChz> frankly I am having concerns wether this is something ill be doing long term it seems the rewards are very low. I'm about 2 weeks messing with XMR.
23:52:30 <gingeropolous> its definitely more of a patience game. i like it cause its like "set it and forget it" and then as time marches forward you have more monero than you started with
23:52:40 <gingeropolous> its a crockpot of money
23:53:05 <gingeropolous> a slow cooker. 
23:53:13 <gingeropolous> slowcooker. im surprised thats not one word
23:54:30 <LikWidChz> hahaha
23:54:32 <gingeropolous> i wonder if GPUs will ever get good enough to be worth using again. like.... what are the circumstances where an expansion card would get that powerful
23:55:13 <LikWidChz> probably when they stop using so much goddamn power. Frankly I am sad my 2x 660TI's from 1000 years ago are not worth using
23:55:51 <gingeropolous> lulz. u just need a way to recycle that heat energy
23:56:16 <LikWidChz> gpu based cookers that steam rice or something
23:56:26 <LikWidChz> RiceCoin
23:59:43 <LikWidChz> I guess its interesting though, they have people building entire PC's just to mine this coin and have a handful of them running vs a bunch of GPU's on another coin