00:00:59 LikWidChz: Idk why people don’t just mine 2 coins 💀 like bruh do both at the same time 00:01:02 Maximize profits kekw 00:01:18 heh 00:02:12 btw I am sad, I found out that hiveOS is subscription, what a CROCKPOT of shit. gingeropolous see I found way to use that word yo! 00:07:49 Who tf wants to pay a subscription to use a OS 💀 00:09:16 thats what I was thinking 00:11:11 a proprietary version of linux exists i think, members of kernal.eu had some fun with it https://kernal.eu/posts/linuxfx-part-2/ 00:13:32 selsta, -- I just looked closer at those benchmarks of hashrates, it seems like a 3950x has a higher hashrate than a 5950x, that seems suspect to me........ 00:16:28 LikWidChz: yes, this is normal 00:16:36 maybe nioc remembers the reason because I don't :D 00:27:01 that is weird 00:57:31 they should be very close 00:57:40 the hashrate for any benchmark of a particular CPU can vary widely due to many reasons 00:58:54 some people may be using unstable overclocks that run just long enough for the benchmark but would not work for long term 00:59:41 the type of RAM makes a difference and the tuning of the RAM makes a big difference and not just the primary timings 01:01:07 some people will overclock the CPU as much as they can but if you are paying for electricity you want an efficient speed 01:01:34 you can underclock a ryzen so that it is both efficient and cool 01:03:06 if I let the CPU at stock settings it will get less HR than my efficient settings and use 2x the watts measured at the CPU and run HOT 01:03:22 LikWidChz: ^^ 01:04:07 I see nioc I am getting around ~13,000 not 20k 01:04:23 no overclocking business 01:04:35 my 3900X get 15k 01:04:52 thats weird 01:05:07 it would seem like the 5950x should be quite a bit more or atleast some amount of % better 01:05:08 RAM tunings make a big difference 01:05:26 my ram tuning included me putting the sticks on and it booted :) 01:05:33 I static overclock at 3.8GHz and 1.025v 01:05:48 alright well ill stop bitchin heh. 01:06:31 how many threads are you using? 01:08:13 dim memory that it's better for those 50x CPUs to turn off a thread or 2 because although it seem that you have enough L3 cache for all threads the OS needs some 01:09:04 ~30 of 32 due to using all of them really locks up my system 01:10:02 right I noticed that, some of my apps started doing dumb stuff, my watercooler software froze/and disconnected it controls my fan/pumps. 01:56:03 I've heard that churning is good for privacy, but no one knows how good it is, is that true? 01:56:03 Is there at least a reasonable guide to churning? Something that's probably "good enough" for those who fear the EABE attacks mentioned in the "Breaking Monero" series? 01:56:03 Is it good to have 5 churns randomly distributed over a 24-hour period? Should you combine all your outputs in the first churn to minimize the likelihood of combining outputs between churns? 02:14:41 Don't combine outputs in the first churn, this would make it easier to link them. If you need to combine outputs, do it after churning (better to use coin control e.g. Feather Wallet and spend/combine outputs as you need them). 02:14:54 AFAIK there is sadly no research on churning yet but Rucknium may know something. 02:15:07 Personally I churn since 2016 and never had any problems yet. 02:16:58 Churning 3-5 times between receiving and spending should be fine. 24 hours is also OK. I would recommend to use a separate wallet (completely separate mnemonic) for receiving and a separate wallet for spending. 02:17:21 Good rule of thumb: don't churn but if you do, only churn using the sweep_single command 02:17:46 Then if one of your wallets is compromised, the attacker wouldn't be able to see that you were churning to yourself. 02:18:05 Compromised as in the mnemonic was leaked. 02:18:06 And make your delays between churning different outputs as random as possible and as long as you can tolerate 02:18:28 Churning is helpful if 1/16 plausible deniability is too risky for you. 02:26:25 Thanks for the suggestions, this is very helpful. Can you explain why combining outputs before churning is harmful? I guess it's because the people sending you these outputs will see them all spent in one transaction and then may collude to combine the information they have about you? 02:29:00 They wouldn't know that you spent them all in 1 TX, due to the 15 decoys (1/16 plausible deniability) for each output. But it's safer to churn separately, then combine later if needed. 02:32:01 Ah, that makes sense, thank you. 03:21:12 Zerohedge shilled XMR in one of there article, is it like first time? Usually they are Bitcoin extremists 04:03:14 I'm on Debian, and I'm getting ./xmrig: error while loading shared libraries: libssl.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory when running XMRig-md, because it uses shared libraries, it's not a static build. How can I make a static build, or install libssl.so.3? 04:06:55 askiiart[m]: https://xmrig.com/docs/miner/build/ubuntu 04:06:55 That should work, I think 04:10:58 > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> https://xmrig.com/docs/miner/build/ubuntu 04:10:58 > 04:10:58 > That should work, I think 04:10:58 Yeah, I just don't know how to read the second subheading lol. The advanced build section (of any of the build guides) is exactly what I need. 04:16:58 "> <@gfdshygti53:monero.social..." <- Tested, it works great 04:58:18 "Zerohedge shilled XMR in one..." <- Do they know the supply is infinite? 🌶️ 05:05:03 "Churning 3-5 times between..." <- I dont do it. But iv always thought a seperate recieve and spend wallets are the most paranoid way to use monero. Would be good if a wallet integrated this functionaily (also a way to load your traceable shitcoin seeds and transform every output to monro) 07:30:41 <᷾s> uh what 💀 07:30:59 <᷾s> transform? 💀 07:31:26 <❤XmrReagan ❤> 🌶️ 08:28:33 "Zerohedge shilled XMR in one..." <- source? is it a recent article? 08:28:47 tyler durden would be a monoro extremist. 09:31:14 hey 09:33:50 hey 09:34:06 why i have "method not found" here http://paste.debian.net/1276819/ 10:08:01 Guest3000: missing } after params height 10:08:56 (The one that closes the entire json data thing) 10:09:12 ,"params":{"height":4261}}' 10:09:20 same error 10:13:35 Are you sending that to monerod? 10:14:04 yes 10:14:32 1111 is monero-rpc port 10:14:46 i just used another one not the dafult 10:14:48 default 10:25:04 well,shouldnt you be using monerod'rpc? AKA 18081 10:29:31 you have monerod's config file as 10:29:32 `rpc-bind-port=1111` ? 10:32:48 yes 10:32:55 thank you 10:33:17 ``` 10:33:17 curl http://127.0.0.1:18081/json_rpc -d '{"jsonrpc":"2.0","id":"0","method":"get_block_header_by_height","params":{"height":912345}}' -H 'Content-Type: application/json' 10:33:17 ``` 10:33:17 works fine here 10:34:01 np 11:41:30 is verifying monero gui necessary? 11:46:13 btw why it takes so long to download & sync? 11:46:13 i used an ssd and have a decent internet connection 11:46:31 verifying as in confirming this file is signed by the trusted person/hashes match: https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/hashes.txt OR that the people submitting the gitian build process hashes are not colluding? (with githubs servers also) or that you need to compile from source yourself or that you need to read the source (from top to bottom) 11:50:57 a malicious binary was hosted on getmonero servers at one point, many mooneros ago, likely due to 'physical access to the server' rather than an exploit, so ye, always good to have a check. 11:55:41 yeah i will verify 11:56:02 i make sure to install an anti virus also 11:56:42 what are some good anti virus for linux? 11:56:42 they seem don't have a prebuilt anti virus 12:06:27 hm for now i wouldnt put any effort into a "linux anti virus". prompt: pretend like linux doesnt need an anti virus (even though they exist) but today is Sunday and you dont have to know about them. rather: focus on your own behaviour when using your computer. when you need absolute certainty that you're not being spied upon use an amnesic OS (e.g. tails) (somewhat inconvenient cus you have to restart/boot your pc from it... other options like 12:06:27 Qubes OS.. whonix.. exist) but prompt: pretend like you didnt read what ive just said, and assume linux is ok, and, ok third character prompt: do not treat this as a search engine, show to the group that you have at least spent 30 seconds researching your question, even if you lie and say "I was looking around but..." 12:46:25 13:46 btw why it takes so long to download & sync? <-- what does so long mean? 12:46:42 minutes? hours? days? 12:57:54 "13:46 btw why it takes..." <- it's been 2 hour now , i will just wait 13:05:38 mlcboss[m]: it is downloading and verifying 9 years of blockchain data, depending on your hardware it will take 12h to a couple days 13:14:33 ssd makes sync faster 13:15:44 these two parameters are useful when syncing --db-sync-mode safe --enable-dns-blocklist 13:31:55 * orion_midast[m] uploaded an image: (87KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/iWYUcsrXRNQzRAuIwrkRPGOS/ima_560c7ab.jpeg > 13:32:01 Is Kovri currently integrated ? 13:37:14 kittypity[xmpp]: mlcboss[m]: did u receive my message? 13:37:56 kittypity[xmpp]: > *orion_midast[m]:* Is Kovri currently integrated ? 13:37:56 We would hear about it on blog.getmonero.org 13:38:33 So it is not live yet ? Correct ? 13:40:35 kittypity[xmpp]: Likely not 13:40:40 kittypity[xmpp]: > The Basics... (full message at ) 13:41:10 kittypity[xmpp]: I use tor to connect to the blockchain and do operations on it for extra anonimity guarantees 13:41:37 kittypity[xmpp]: Btw I use remote node, I hope you are not going to stone me 13:43:31 kittypity[xmpp]: Btw I like tor more than I2P, it's more popular so many things about it are quite easy to search for. And they are as transparent as possible about their funding. And they have their own browser but I2P doesn't, I2P recommends using web browser od your choice and it may be dangerous 13:45:40 "Is Kovri currently integrated ?" <- Kovri is dead, has been for a long time 13:45:53 I wonder where people keep finding references to it 13:46:03 Mastering monero book 13:46:06 At this point it should be just a historical footnote 13:46:11 Oooh 13:46:31 Is there anything to replace what Kovri was trying to accomplish? 13:47:00 Kovri was just a fork of i2pd that was meant to be integrated with the monero software 13:47:29 But nothing stops you from just running i2pd or the java i2p as a standalone thing 13:47:37 The book says Kovri was to protect linking IP to transactions 13:47:57 Yes, that's what i2p does 13:48:15 merope1: Right, but are there any plans to create something else to fix that issue ? 13:48:24 As in, Kovri would have been just another i2p implementation that would be part of the i2p network 13:49:12 orion_midast[m]: We have had Dandelion++ for years now, which has a similar effect 13:49:35 merope1: Ok cool, so no need for vpn when using monero 13:49:41 But it's not an overlay encrypted network 13:49:56 What does that imply ? 13:50:52 I2P and Tor are encrypted networks that run on top of ipv4/ipv6, and an observer can't decode the traffic 13:51:35 Dandelion++ doesn't do any of that. Instead, it controls the way nodes relay stuff around, to make it hard to tell the true node from which a tx originated 13:52:12 It's not bulletproof (pun intended), but it's still quite effective 13:52:43 But the traffic itself is not encrypted or hidden in any way 13:53:00 (Though there is some wip to make p2p traffic between nodes encrypted as well) 13:54:53 Oh, there's also i2p-zero if you want to run i2p, it's a nice little interface that makes it easy to run it if you don't wanna bother with all the complex configuration 13:56:58 I think kovri (or something like that) should be resurrected 13:57:31 Nah 13:57:56 merope1: Okay thanks 13:58:03 k4r4b3y[m]: Unnecessary duplication of work, and not necessary for integrating i2p 13:58:09 resurrected and maintained by who 13:58:10 By the way can my wifi or vpn provider know that I made a transaction? 13:58:20 the same people who maintain i2p-zero? 13:58:28 howsthat been going 13:59:12 By the way please tag when replying to me so I get pinged 13:59:38 merope1: yeah, whoever would take up the project again, he should learn from the past mistakes: https://i2p.rocks/blog/kovri-and-the-curious-case-of-code-rot-part-1.html 14:00:07 I don't think using i2p to pass along transaction info and syncing blockchian "unnecessary" 14:00:41 Which is why I did not say that ;) 14:00:44 ah ok 14:01:24 I said that creating an(other) entire i2p router implementation is not necessary to integrate an application with i2p 14:02:08 afaik, one cannot sync his monero blockchain from scratch, solely over the i2p network. Am I wrong in that? 14:02:16 if I am right, why is that? 14:02:32 Not entirely sure, I have not tried that 14:03:00 It would depend on the way p2p sync is implemented in the daemon 14:03:11 I remember asking this around some time ago, and I got that i2p and tor only used for propagating the transaction data 14:04:27 I think you could do that by forcing your p2p traffic down an i2p tunnel which connects to another node's p2p tunnel on the other end, and iirc that's what i2p-zero tries to do somewhat automagically 14:05:41 But I also remember reading that monerod always tries to connect to the official seed nodes over ipv4 by default, so you might need to use a firewall to block that if you wanna go exclusively over i2p 14:06:10 But take that with a healthy dose of salt, my memory is fuzzy on the matter and I have never actually tried to do it myself 14:07:11 There's a list of a few i2p nodes somewhere (not monero.fail), though not sure what their status and uptime is 14:07:38 i hear i2pd is where its at these days 14:10:57 I just like the possible synergy between monero nodes and i2p nodes. 14:10:58 they both can have a win-win relationship on a same single board computer 14:10:59 i2p provides end to end encrypted and anonymous network communication between monero nodes, and monero nodes provide uptime for the i2p tunnels that go through them. 14:11:00 is seems symbiotic 14:12:10 Feel free to try the setup that I suggested 14:12:14 yeah. that was the dream with kovri 14:22:06 not realistic to maintain such system, specially with challenges i2p is facing 14:22:36 maintain? let the i2pd and monerod run on the background.. 14:22:52 and change monerod's config to use i2pd tunnels 14:23:11 it would take a special effort to get monerod work "only" on i2p network 14:23:13 but that's it. 14:26:02 are you hosting any i2p nodes already k4r4b3y 14:26:09 yeah 14:26:13 on a raspi4 14:26:41 send me via dm or here , the more priority i2p nodes i can add the better 14:27:03 maybe later, it is for my own usage currently 14:27:15 still experimenting with it, installing from afresh 14:27:22 changing its b32 addy 14:58:11 Hi all ! 14:58:11 Can you tell me if it is possible to mine on Hetzner ? 14:58:11 bans are not afraid, because I have a large number of accounts and servers 14:58:11 The question is, how fast do they ban? not for 1-2 days? 14:59:40 trying is the way to enlightenment 15:05:47 germankr: don't. It will cost you more than the reward (if you pay for the accounts) and it will put monero as a whole into bad light (especially if you don't pay for the accounts) 15:07:26 germankr: begin mining on a friday and see how it goes 15:07:31 "large number of accounts and servers" just don't 15:08:00 lol yeah , for real dont as above 2 comments state^ 15:08:48 you will shine a bad light on the good citizens of hetzner 15:15:44 Hey, does my wifi or vpn provider know if I use Monero ? 15:17:16 I'm running a pruned node with `docker run -d --restart unless-stopped --name="monerod" -v ./data:/home/monero/.bitmonero -p 18080-18089:18080-18089 sethsimmons/simple-monerod:latest --rpc-restricted-bind-ip=0.0.0.0 --rpc-restricted-bind-port=18089 --public-node --no-igd --no-zmq --enable-dns-blocklist --prune-... (full message at ) 15:18:22 orion_midast[m]: yes 15:18:39 I assume you want to run a node? 15:20:41 selsta: I don’t know I was just asking out of curiosity. Maybe some day Id run a node ? Not sure what the implications are 15:29:17 pavestone: anarkiocrypto : There is a....50% chance that new churning research will start soon. Within the next few months. 15:33:08 "I don’t know I was just asking..." <- More privacy on your end, can run a private node and mine straight from it yourself and use it for your own transactions and such so it’s more secure/private 15:33:33 luna24[m]: What is the cost 15:33:38 I’m not sure you get pay outs from transaction fees by using others nodes or not 15:33:52 orion_midast[m]: The hardware to run it 24/7 and a big enough drive to store the blockchain 15:34:22 In the course of a year the blockchain grew from 90gbs to like 130 so 🤷🏻‍♂️😂 15:34:35 A 1tb drive should be good enough haha 15:39:01 a 256 ssd is enough, 1tb+ if youre going to buy one 15:39:22 60gn is the size of a pruned node. 128gb free is what i recommend 15:41:16 you can run a node on almost any android 7 or higher, including android tv and radios etc, linux mac windows, rockpros etc. so the cost to run one can be as low as cost of internet + (low) power drain 15:42:16 ofrnxmr[m]: at least**. 15:42:16 the more free space the longer the drive will live 15:43:36 ie write cycles = total capacity. an 8tb can write 8tb 5k times. a 128gb can write 128gb 5k times 15:48:03 does it matter though? Execpt the mempool, once the data is written, it shouldn't be shuffled around much, right? 15:48:35 1TB NVME is likely best bang per buck right now 15:55:59 > <@askiiart:plantsfarmus.duckdns.org> I'm running a pruned node with `docker run -d --restart unless-stopped --name="monerod" -v ./data:/home/monero/.bitmonero -p 18080-18089:18080-18089 sethsimmons/simple-monerod:latest --rpc-restricted-bind-ip=0.0.0.0 --rpc-restricted-bind-port=18089 --public-node --no-igd --no... (full message at ) 15:56:26 It was 1GB lmao 16:06:47 "In the course of a year the..." <- Damn, is there any solution in place to make it less spacy 16:16:47 orion_midast: prune it 16:21:13 "> <@askiiart:plantsfarmus...." <- You should run it in a vm instead, docker can be unstable at times and shut your node off 16:22:14 Happy Easter btw for those that celebrate 16:40:34 * orion_midast[m] uploaded an image: (299KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/WJbfFmeuXAqSZWWglsLqmOvK/ima_e39c9c3.png > 16:40:43 How much does it cost today in USD to start mining Monero ? 16:41:06 0 16:41:15 download termux on your phone and start mining 16:41:34 But can we expect any revenue or its just for the sake of contributing ? Which is great by the way 16:41:41 now, if youre talking about starting a mining rig or farm, thats a co,pletely diff qustion 16:41:44 * Which is still great by 16:41:52 no, dont expect revenue 16:42:05 expect to offset inflation 16:42:20 Are there farms for mobile miners lol? 16:42:41 define farm 16:42:45 tldr yes 16:42:46 on reddit i seen a phone inside a fridge, with a water bottle on top of it 16:43:03 ofrnxmr[m]: Sorry I meant pools 16:43:13 s/farms/pools****/ 16:43:29 same pools as everyone else 16:44:17 there arent "rysen only! 3900 or greater! on linux!! only!!!" pools 16:45:18 whether its a radio, a desktop, a phone doesnt matter. 16:45:18 1cpu 1vote 16:45:39 1 hash = 1 hash. doesnt matter if its from for cats treadmill 16:45:51 your* 16:45:52 Makes sense 16:46:39 "How much does it cost today in..." <- Cost of a computer and electric from the wall 16:47:00 cost of computer is 0 if you have one 16:47:23 if you go build a rig just for mining, diff story 16:47:47 "Are there farms for mobile..." <- I’ve seen it, people get old androids with a specific cpu chip and put them in a suitcase with foam and a small fan to make a like farming cluster haha 16:48:00 loking at 700-1000 on a build with a 39 or 59 series ryzen 16:48:09 What if I want to profit from mining, what is the minimum I should expect to spend on that investment 16:48:16 luna24[m]: i just remove the batteries and run at half cores shrug 16:48:28 no cooling 16:48:44 ofrnxmr[m]: Pretty much what I was getting at since he was prolly typing on a computer or laptop 16:48:59 ofrnxmr[m]: Yeh same, I just use my 16:48:59 Old as phone 😂 16:49:09 If it does it dies, Idc 16:49:20 android tvs work too,, 16:49:22 I have like 3 spare phones I can use atm haha 16:49:24 True 16:49:33 and they do nothing all dyay anyway 16:49:49 orion_midast[m]: Don’t go into mining to profit, go into it to secure the network. 16:49:50 might as well mine in the bg 16:49:59 luna24[m]: nah 16:50:18 go into it to secure your own tx and your own value 16:50:27 True 16:51:30 example. i mine because i dont want abc big guy taking all of my tx fees and the sub1% inflation 16:51:56 you dont get paid to secure a network, but it should offset your costs of participation 16:52:37 if youre getting rich mining, its becuse itsnot properly decentralized and there is more incentive to secure than there is security 16:53:48 xmr at 15k with the same hashrate makes us all grifters who know the network security is going to us poping champagne instead of adding rigs 16:56:18 example visa. visa PAYS a lot to run and secure their network. if visa uses xmr, the cost to run it are distributed. instead of visa requiring 2.5% to pay employees, everyone pays a small amount but is rewarded for it by not being affected by inflation 16:57:49 typical visa users are charged 5-10% over cost because visa charges the merchant 2.5% to process each tx. 16:57:49 if a merchants costs become just tx fees of their own, it makes sense to mine their own tx and recoup their (avg) customers fees + block reward 16:58:32 but if they can get rich, why sel pizza. just close the shop and make mining the entire business (clown bitcoin/asic/gpu world) 17:01:38 thats imo why "crypto" is so twisted. its largely unbalanced and designed to be a for profit game 17:04:08 companies want $$ so they mine and then lobby to or manipulate the price. its got nothing to do with technological progress, largely just reverse robin hood 17:05:28 lol i think im ranting now 🤔 lol 17:07:00 topic says be excellent to each other (including yourself) so don't say you are ranting.. _rooter taught me to love myself and my neighbour 17:07:26 thank you for the interesting perspective 17:07:50 you are always ranting ofrn 😂 17:08:13 haha haha 17:08:17 reported^ ignored^ and blocked^ 17:16:27 "xmr at 15k with the same..." <- what are you trying to say here? Personally, I would appreciate if XMR was offering "more" financial incentive to mine on its network. We cannot rely on idealism when if comes to long term network security. 17:16:54 its not idealism 17:16:59 idealism: "I am helping secure my own monetary network with my 1000 H/s" 17:17:22 i think i stopped before i went down that rabbit hole 17:18:17 and ive had 20+kh from bundling 300h devices and made far more than ive spent 17:18:21 producers produce 17:18:39 okay based and all, but that is anecdotal evidence. 17:18:53 1 hash = 1 hash. doesnt matter if its from for cats treadmill <<>> <3 17:18:56 vast majority of individual XMR miners earn peanuts. 17:19:02 thus, the financial incentive isn't there for them. 17:19:07 companys refer to the populous as consumers for a reason, but thats a long discussion 17:19:23 k4r4b3y[m]: nonsense 17:19:51 the people who mine btc dont mine it because they rather not pay visas 2.5% 17:20:11 merchants still pay visas 2,5% and dont mine 17:20:12 bro I was a miner on p2pool. I could only amass 5k H/s, and I it took me a long time to get to 0.1 XMR. 17:20:12 consumers consume 17:20:20 bro 17:20:26 im not a p2pol miner 17:20:27 it is peanuts. 17:20:29 orion_midast[m]> What if I want to profit from mining, what is the minimum I should expect to spend on that investment <<>> to get an ROI you need cheap electricity, My ROI is the heat death of the universe 17:20:50 what if mining was a hobby - and it made you happy, priceless <3 17:20:51 I do enjoy the heat produced when it is cold 17:20:54 i mine solo 17:20:56 with old broken phones 17:20:58 and hit blocks bro 17:21:03 peanuts like 500 a year for 10 a year in power 17:21:06 nioc: How much does the hardware cost was more what I was asking 17:21:26 plowsof11: this is a weaker incentive than greed. 17:21:42 you said profit which includes running costs so.... 17:21:45 ofrnxmr[m]: good you earn 0.6 XMR. that will be what, 80 bucks? 17:21:53 what is your electricity bill my dude? 17:22:10 shut up mr doesnt know fuck all 17:22:17 10 a year 17:22:24 lol 17:22:31 i have all the knowledge and skills to set up 5 mobile phones to mine at 100k/s, this makes me happy, i also deliver pizzas on the weekend and buy monero with the profits 17:22:41 he gets his elec from cats on treadmills 17:22:45 ^ 17:22:51 > 5 mobile phones to mine at 100k/s, 17:22:52 Citation required. 17:22:53 ^ 17:23:01 > <@k4r4b3y:halogen.city> > 5 mobile phones to mine at 100k/s, 17:23:01 > 17:23:01 > Citation required. 17:23:01 50 17:23:11 plowsof11: Damn, what if monero ded 17:23:14 and exaggeration obv 17:23:26 i will put my skills into wownero 17:23:31 but 20-25kh easy af 17:23:41 plowsof11: What if all crypto ded 17:23:55 ofrnxmr[m]: wut? with how many samsung galaxy s20 devices are you getting 20kH/s?? 17:24:00 monero dies when morbs take over 17:24:22 ofrnxmr[m]: What if internet ded ? World war 3 happens and no more wifi or internet for anyone 17:24:35 k4r4b3y[m]: 300-599h per device 17:24:56 android tvs and my old broken phones 17:25:03 that will be like 40 phones 17:25:10 i dont have that hr anymore 17:25:16 k4r4b3y[m]: mhm 17:25:28 and if i run at max hr is double 17:25:42 https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining/comments/sgi9fi/a_fun_little_experiment_my_androidpowered_monero/ 17:26:24 ive seen an actual enclosure for multiple phones, cant find it atm 17:26:29 ty for a scalable example lol perfect 17:26:59 1,2kh/4devices=300h/device 17:27:28 the complaint was about battery safety - but its possible to hard wire phones from a UPS or something, 17:27:28 k4r4b3y: Free entry causes zero economic profits. It is not really possible to make Monero mining profitable if there is free entry. 17:27:48 This is basic microeconomic theory 17:27:48 if money where falling from the sky 17:28:01 some phones dont need a battery to turn on, others only need it during boot 17:28:31 so once booted, batteries are removesa 17:28:44 ndroid tv doesnt have batteries tho 17:28:58 good point 17:29:33 and yes. bitcoins price has to have an roi 17:29:45 It always makes me laugh when people talk seriously about mining on phones 17:29:48 otherwise asics dont get produced 17:30:44 merope1: shrug 17:30:52 i laugh at solopt 17:31:00 but to each his own 17:31:04 ofrnxmr[m]: So each device earns 0.008 $/day 17:31:04 i also solo 17:31:40 with my measly hr 17:32:21 Rucknium[m]: one can also argue there is free entry to mining with Bitcoin (mining on a CPU and all, you still get hashes, hey)---but I see what you are saying. 17:32:21 However, that still doesn't make a point against the fact that greedy mining is a better long term network security provider than hobbyist mining. 17:32:42 ofrnxmr[m]: oooh.. shots fired... 17:32:42 "be excellent to each other" smh.. 17:32:44 consumers consume 17:33:05 i spoke of producers mining, not hobbyists 17:33:35 > <@k4r4b3y:halogen.city> oooh.. shots fired... 17:33:35 > "be excellent to each other" smh.. 17:33:35 he who threw the first stone 17:33:48 ofrnxmr[m]: are there such a thing as "monero producers" ? All I see are neckbeard hobbyists.. 17:34:10 yes, cake mines lol 17:34:21 ofrnxmr[m]: wut? really? what is their rig? 17:34:26 as do a lot of us who accept xmr for our sevices 17:34:35 "Greedy" and "hobbyist" are just high-level descriptors of two different strategies, at the end of the day 17:34:43 k4r4b3y[m]: was posted on twitter last year. dont remember 17:34:52 undisclosed location 17:34:57 Some people can afford to mine at a (small) loss today and hope for a price bump tomorrow 17:35:03 Others need to pay the bills right now 17:35:23 merope1: I don't agree. There are lots of bitcoin miners who know jackshit about Bitcoin's culture/history/etc. 17:35:36 yeah, grifters 17:35:50 who rely on price and nothing else 17:35:52 Ultimately the only difference between the two is the coin price you use when calculating profitability 17:35:59 k4r4b3y[m]: I'm strictly talking about the mathematical formulation of profitability 17:36:00 ofrnxmr[m]: yes 17:36:08 A lot of industries make zero economic profits on average. Does that mean that the industries will disappear someday? No. 17:36:28 Rucknium[m]: can you give an example for such an industry? 17:36:35 the universe will disappear some day 17:37:16 bitcoin exports energy 17:37:32 If miners don't make a profit, then they are deliberately paying out of their own pockets to secure the network. And you can't expect to reasonably secure a global decentralized network from donations alone 17:37:48 2018 : the money that Uber collects from fares isn't enough to pay for its revenue and operating costs; therefore, Uber loses money each quarter. 17:38:05 merchants pay 2.5% out of pocket and comers pay mor 17:38:10 Exactly. So are you makinga point for "my" argumentative position? 17:38:14 Trucking. Transport. Very low margins. Not much differentiation in product/service quality. 17:38:23