02:04:04 <Infinity8> Generally, what should I set my incoming/outgoing peers to?
02:04:18 <Infinity8> I have it 64/64 on fibre but my upstream/downstream isn't equal
02:04:24 <Infinity8> doesn't seem to be impacting 4K Streaming
02:10:40 <gingeropolous> i wonder if LWS services is the place for rpc-pay
02:10:51 <gingeropolous> LWS nodes
02:11:01 <gingeropolous> LWS stands for lite wallet service dont it
02:11:15 <cryptogrampy[m]> lws services is the future of everything
02:11:33 <gingeropolous> :) i was just readin your tweet
02:12:08 <gingeropolous> oh right. the problem is then the service provider knows your stuff
02:13:02 <cryptogrampy[m]> The solution for that is just a technical one and it's already solved.  Just needs people to build it
02:13:24 <gingeropolous> who do the what now?
02:13:24 <cryptogrampy[m]> The limited view keys in seraphis.  
02:13:32 <gingeropolous> roight roight
02:14:00 <cryptogrampy[m]> But you could have some thing similar to how Matrix or IRC works.  People host these LWS services, and people will be able to connect via tor, i2p, etc.  
02:14:10 <cryptogrampy[m]> It's very low data usage for the wallet user
02:14:21 <cryptogrampy[m]> so it works well for privacy networks
02:14:38 <gingeropolous> ok, so say that issue is solved. what other aspects of rpc-pay weren't fully figured out
02:14:50 <cryptogrampy[m]> You could also charge people a fee for an api key to use the service 
02:15:46 <MajesticBank> lws code when production ready be big thing
02:15:57 <MajesticBank> as 4-5 wallets is using closed source backend
02:16:00 <cryptogrampy[m]> We just need some more wallet options
02:16:54 <gingeropolous> an eve could run a bogus lws with rpc-pay, so the user ends up submitting PoW without getting service... but i guess the user would just disconnect after a bit
02:17:57 <cryptogrampy[m]> That could go for any service.  Reputation is important
02:18:56 <gingeropolous> yeah. i guess the main thing is with having a random node selection, because anyone can prop up a bogus lws, just like bogus remote nodes exist and killed that whole thing
02:19:22 <TrasherDK[m]> cryptogrampy: Any progress on `monero-javascript` ?
02:19:38 <endogenic> i have a lws client ready
02:19:42 <endogenic> basic lib level even
02:19:51 <endogenic> might as well release it soon. wrapping loose ends
02:19:59 <gingeropolous> word
02:20:01 <endogenic> (beyond current lws capabilities)
02:20:09 <endogenic> it's well written and tested
02:20:26 <TrasherDK[m]> endogenic: Tell us more 😃
02:20:36 <cryptogrampy[m]> sorry endo.  i beat you to the punch
02:20:39 * cryptogrampy[m] uploaded an image: (110KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/NoOLMzsUEPIWyFrXwfXseNMa/image.png >
02:20:50 <endogenic> monero-javascript imo should be part of mainline as a wasi target
02:21:02 <endogenic> no, grampy, you didnt
02:21:06 <endogenic> keep dreaming
02:21:16 <endogenic> but thanks for your lack of support
02:21:17 <cryptogrampy[m]> my wallet came through a 1994 time machine
02:21:34 <cryptogrampy[m]> it only runs on netscape navigator
02:22:03 <endogenic> you have long known i was working on low lvl libs etc for all this
02:22:11 <endogenic> so has the monero js ppl when they took my code lol
02:22:34 <endogenic> anyway it's partly my fault for not adding a wasi target to monero with the zero support i have
02:22:44 <endogenic> that way no monero js code would have any work to do
02:22:48 <endogenic> it should be part of mainline
02:23:36 <MajesticBank> monero js is very important, electron js = new wallet on horizon multi-platform
02:24:18 <cryptogrampy[m]> Would really like to see monerojs have lws support
02:24:25 <cryptogrampy[m]> it's a great lib
02:25:04 <cryptogrampy[m]> https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/monero-javascript/issues/4
02:26:16 <cryptogrampy[m]> <gingeropolous> "yeah. i guess the main thing..." <- You could also have a hybrid wallet that can run off RPC if necessary
02:32:16 <gingeropolous> wut?
02:42:31 <plowsof11> wen ccs to make monero-js part of mainline 
02:44:34 <MajesticBank> woodser moving monero-js mountains for free ?
03:21:47 <TrasherDK[m]> I'm stuck, trying to get monero-javascript into vite and sveltekit.
08:57:10 <k4r4b3y[m]> <cryptogrampy[m]> "lws services is the future of..." <- I am also looking forward to having this asap
08:58:03 <k4r4b3y[m]> uncle jims hosting lws for their fam/communities + seraphis priv-preserving light wallet tier = killer UX combo for street use
08:59:25 <k4r4b3y[m]> Do we have some idea how would a light wallet handle downtimes of its lws-server? Would that light wallet connect to another post-seraphis lws-server and keep chugging along where it was left-off syncing its balance?
09:19:08 <monerobull[m]> That would require the fallback to also have the "view key"
09:19:47 <monerobull[m]> Would probably be best to by default just fall back to local syncing unless a fallback lws is specified
09:20:44 <k4r4b3y[m]> monerobull[m]: yeah, I see that
09:21:26 <k4r4b3y[m]> or, would a mobile monero light wallet be able to fall back to syncing using a regular remote node and keep going?
09:24:12 <k4r4b3y[m]> just trying to see what options would a post-seraphis light wallet have in case the lws-server his uncle jim hosts become unavailable out of blue
09:25:37 <monerobull[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: That's what I suggested 
09:25:59 <k4r4b3y[m]> ah, that's what you mean by "local syncing", ok, got it.
09:26:45 <k4r4b3y[m]> yeah, would be cool to see mobile wallets able to juggle this regular remote server sync & lws-server sync seemlessly
09:30:22 <monerobull[m]> Why cant I git pull the admin lws thing
09:31:16 <monerobull[m]> I'm stupid, it's git clone not pull
09:31:35 <k4r4b3y[m]> happens to the best, happens to the rest
09:41:39 <k4r4b3y[m]> https://nitter.snopyta.org/openbazaar/status/1640886032714350592#m
09:41:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> I hope openbazaar 3.0 will heed the vox populi and support XMR payments
10:04:10 <CodingCowboy[m]> Why does this room hate lurkers?
10:04:47 <CodingCowboy[m]> Does it cost extra or something?
10:05:53 <CodingCowboy[m]> I guess I will post something stupid like this once a month.
10:09:40 <charuto> it's not specific to this room
10:09:48 <charuto> pretty sure matrix in geneal kicks people for being idle in rooms
10:10:43 <CodingCowboy[m]> Oh I thought it was room specific.  My apologies. 
10:13:34 <Atque> Is this room mainly on matrix?
10:18:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> <charuto> "pretty sure matrix in geneal..." <- Didn't know that. Is this a new server option or something?
10:18:33 <charuto> Atque, well it's bridged
10:18:40 <charuto> so it doesn't really matter
10:18:50 <charuto> k4r4b3y: nah, always worked like that i believe.
10:20:11 <Atque> charuto: Yeah, the matrix bridged channels bring a different crowd in my experience. IRC peeps tend to be more into IT I guess. Matrix is probably more mixed.
10:20:17 <k4r4b3y[m]> charuto: Didn't occur me before. I don't recall ever getting kicked due to being idle.
10:20:42 <charuto> k4r4b3y: you need to be idle for 1 month
10:20:55 <charuto> or was it 90 days? not sure.
10:21:20 <Atque> charuto: Does that reset with disconnects?
10:21:23 <charuto> not sure what qualifies as "idle"
10:21:40 <Atque> I reckon staying connected for a month on IRC would be kind of bizarro.
10:22:18 <charuto> well, on matrix even if you disconnect, your server doesn't
10:22:30 <charuto> that's why you never see matrix users leave rooms until they get kicked for inactivity
10:23:47 <Atque> Yeah. That was my experience with matrix tbh
10:24:22 <Atque> You'd go into a room with 10,000 people. There'd be no talk... just ghost nicknames idling in the room. Not a good vibe imo
10:24:56 <Atque> So, yuh, I kind of agree with the kicking thing
10:29:05 <charuto> does anyone know if there's an eta for the next network upgrade?
10:31:36 <CodingCowboy[m]> <Atque> "I reckon staying connected for a..." <- Actually no because there are servers like https://quassel-irc.org/ that you can run to keep you connected to IRC 24/7.
10:32:11 <Atque> CodingCowboy[m]: Yes, there are bouncers, but not everyone uses them
10:32:54 <Atque> CodingCowboy[m]: Those also do not keep a connection continuously. Maintaining an IRC connection requires maintaining a constant TCP connection. Doing that's basically impossible.
10:33:13 <charuto> consider moving to -offtopic
10:35:23 <CodingCowboy[m]> This topic isn't that important.  I'm just here to keep up on Monero.
10:40:37 <Atque> Anyone got an article that's easy to read about how monero achieves more anonymity than other blockchain cryptocurrencies?
10:46:23 <merope> Have you looked on getmonero.org?
10:49:28 <Atque> merope: Does it explain the algorithm somewhere?
10:50:43 <rbrunner> "an article that's easy to read" and "explain the algorithm" is to quite some extent a contradiction with Monero ... but anyway, the general approach is illustrated there I think
10:57:17 <Atque> rbrunner: Umm... an article that's easy to read for someone who reads computer science articles a lot but does not want to spend 25 hours studying some maths.
11:00:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mastering monero, maybe
11:00:25 <charuto> hm, there's mastering monero and zero to monero
11:00:29 <charuto> available here: https://www.getmonero.org/library/
11:00:45 <charuto> if that's too long, there used to be a youtube playlist with short monero videos
11:00:51 <charuto> but i can't seem to find it anymore.
11:00:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Breaking monero?
11:01:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or something else
11:01:08 <charuto> no
11:01:25 <charuto> https://youtu.be/6DQb0cMvU7I
11:01:51 <charuto> following videos here: https://youtube.com/channel/UCnjUpT9gGxyQ_lud7uKoTCg
11:01:58 <charuto> ah fuck youtube
11:02:01 <charuto> https://piped.projectsegfau.lt/channel/UCnjUpT9gGxyQ_lud7uKoTCg
11:06:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Mastering monero, maybe" <- A new edition is sorely needed
11:12:17 <merope> <Atque> "endor00: Does it explain the..." <- https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/what-is-monero/ second section, about confidentiality
11:12:35 <merope> If you click on each term, there's a brief explanation page about them
11:28:16 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/12tvc0j/monero_desktop_wallets/
11:28:17 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Ummmm… yeah
11:28:46 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Monero marketing team failboat
11:46:40 <Atque> merope: ty
15:21:30 <dm4you[m]> It seems EU just passed regulation that ban privacy coin. Is their any official response from xmr community?
15:24:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hm. From meb "yawn"
15:24:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> * Hm. From me "yawn"
15:24:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like banning oxygenc funny guys
15:25:13 <hfclover[m]> dm4you[m]: When and where?
15:25:20 <ceetee[m]> What are privacy coins? I don't have any
15:25:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> i only have apecoin sir
15:26:00 <dm4you[m]> https://thecryptogateway.it/mica-approvata-la-regolamentazione-bitcoin-crypto-e-nft-in-europa/
15:26:01 <dm4you[m]> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/A-9-2022-0052-AM-002-002_EN.pdf
15:27:22 <plowsof11> in #monero-policy:monero.social nioc shared a tweet https://twitter.com/bisq_network/status/1649349799408271360?s=20 
15:27:23 <dm4you[m]> * 
15:27:23 <dm4you[m]> https://thecryptogateway.it/mica-approvata-la-regolamentazione-bitcoin-crypto-e-nft-in-europa/
15:27:23 <dm4you[m]> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/A-9-2022-0052-AM-002-002_EN.pdf
15:27:23 <dm4you[m]> The Monero community has been warning about this for a two years ago. I think politicians just ignored our opinions...
15:28:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> I see utility tokens exempt
15:28:55 <plowsof11> hopefully someone doesnt delete their work group https://moneropolicy.org/
15:29:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds like they need to stop making stuff up
15:31:42 <hfclover[m]> > <@dm4you:matrix.org>... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e4b68732932c789b1575743ff5dd7085e1ad5b29>)
15:35:26 <plowsof11> hfclover you can report to the principles office after class is over for that insensitive comment
15:36:54 <plowsof11> while the rest of the class go to a local Italian restaurant 
15:37:10 <hfclover[m]> It sounds like worst case Monero could be banned from CEX but not DEX. The DEX exemption definitely applies to Atomic swaps but possibly not to DEX that use escrows.
15:37:10 <hfclover[m]> So Europoids can buy soy-based cryptos and atomic swap them for Monero legally.
15:37:10 <hfclover[m]> Classic EU efficiency
15:37:46 <hfclover[m]> plowsof11: I'm allowed to make fun of things that aren't real. 😤
15:42:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> "were banning price reporting of privacy coins"
15:43:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> "were going to just pretend they dont exist and hope for the best"
15:43:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Buy doge! Wownero kills pets! Report all wow users please"
15:45:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Conficasting xmr from normies be like "lol my xmr wallet looks just like my bank acct. Empty"
15:46:03 <great_taste> pet ownership is animal abuse
15:49:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Irc bridge buggy
15:50:31 <RavFX[m]> One way bridge!
16:12:54 <plowsof> ping
16:13:13 <plowsof11> .pong
16:13:13 <Wallet> plowsof11: PING
17:09:56 <nioc> plowsof and plowsof11 are following me
17:12:33 <Indigenz[m]> Trezor model one ,monero compatibly prospects or options ?
17:41:22 <TrasherDK[m]> <charuto> "not sure what qualifies as "idle..." <- Not logging in, not visiting a room, is idle.
17:41:26 <xfedex[m]> AFAIK Trezor Model one is not powerful enough to act as a Monero wallet (XMR has complex cryptography compared to other coins)
17:45:30 <Indigenz[m]> Ty
17:45:46 <plowsof11> Ledger Nano S would be the cheap option (if you issue is price point - Trezor One being expensive)
17:52:55 <TrasherDK[m]> Trezor being expensive in more than one way.
17:54:25 <RavFX[m]> It's why I have a Ledger.
17:54:25 <RavFX[m]> Less expensive for more supported stuff
17:54:25 <RavFX[m]> look better (in my opinion)
17:55:08 <RavFX[m]> not that for supported stuff, I only care about Monero, Bitcorn and yubikey emulation
18:49:54 <k4r4b3y[m]> plowsof: check your DM :)
18:51:55 <xfedex[m]> why did this comment get deleted? (note: i'm not the comment author) https://www.unddit.com/r/Monero/comments/12t07cw/_/jh14sha/#comment-info
18:55:40 <xallero[m]> Hey everyone. I'm a n00b to xmr. Glad this room exists.
18:55:40 <xallero[m]> Is it possible to buy xmr online with a one-time prepaid credit card?
19:05:15 <RavFX[m]> > <@xallero:matrix.org> Hey everyone. I'm a n00b to xmr. Glad this room exists.
19:05:15 <RavFX[m]> > Is it possible to buy xmr online with a one-time prepaid credit card?
19:05:15 <RavFX[m]> Prepaid credit cards are considered unsafe and reversible.
19:05:15 <RavFX[m]> So not a lot of peoples are willing to accept them and usually it does require full KYC
19:05:40 <RavFX[m]>  * Credit cards are considered unsafe and reversible.
19:05:40 <RavFX[m]> So not a lot of peoples are willing to accept them and usually it does require full KYC
19:06:54 <RavFX[m]> You can buy some at monero.com but I never tested it so I can't say how good it work
19:07:55 <RavFX[m]> Some KYC exchanges like Binance or kraken do accept CC (but you're is prepaid so it might not work, prepaid are usually more restricted)
19:32:01 <plowsof11> k4r4b3y: my DMs are empty sir  
20:11:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Cause you rescin your invite to me
22:59:30 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> try LM xallero
22:59:45 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> your best bet is to sell the card directly for xmr
23:00:14 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> list it on moneromarket and localmonero for a few days, then sell direct to a service for that
23:00:16 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> if noone buys
23:01:05 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> if you can offer direct shipping for the card you will be seen as more trustworthy
23:01:10 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> rather than digital delivery
23:32:07 <Mochi101> Monerotopia needs to fix their web site.
23:45:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> MoneroTopia  ping sunita