00:26:32 <xallero[m]> bridgerton: Thank you for the suggestions. I'll consider them.
01:46:11 <JacobGonzales[m]> My site officially only accepts Monero
01:46:27 <JacobGonzales[m]> I got Monero woo commerce gateway finally working
01:56:29 <xmrlover[m]> That's a major w 
02:36:07 <Fibonacci12358> .bal
02:36:07 <Wallet> Fibonacci12358: Access denied for bal. Are you logged in?
02:36:22 <Fibonacci12358> .bal
02:36:23 <Wallet> Fibonacci12358: 0 XMR
03:48:01 <CopenhagenBram[m> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Credit cards are considered unsafe and reversible.
03:48:01 <CopenhagenBram[m> > So not a lot of peoples are willing to accept them and usually it does require full KYC
03:48:01 <CopenhagenBram[m> It's interesting to consider that Zelle has had a lot of complaints about transactions not being reversible, but the Monero/cryptocurrency/Bisq community see it as a feature and not a bug
03:49:09 <CopenhagenBram[m> Zelle scams: Don't worry, if you're not satisfied, just reverse the transaction!
03:49:09 <CopenhagenBram[m> Scams on services where transactions are reversible: Oops I accidentally sent money to you, can you just send it plz&ty
03:49:17 <CopenhagenBram[m> * send it back plz&ty
03:49:36 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, you just don't want to accept a reversible payment in exchange of a non reversible payment
03:53:32 <CopenhagenBram[m> Paypal/Cashapp/etc: We've got you fully covered in case of theft or something
03:53:32 <CopenhagenBram[m> The entire cryptocurrency community: *backs away slowly*
03:53:32 <CopenhagenBram[m> Paypal/Cashapp/etc: ...custodial wallets, anyone?
05:27:09 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> cashapp does not reverse payments
05:27:11 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> ever
05:27:27 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> Paypal rarely does
05:27:39 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> if its a regular transaction type
05:27:58 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> if its paypal friends and family, which p2p communities use, there are no chargebacks
05:28:32 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> It is possible to reverse payments on cashapp if you paid with card rather than cash balance, and then calling your credit card company
05:28:43 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> though that is quite rare and gets you banned on cashapp
05:29:26 <bridgerton[m]> <𓆏⸻> cashapp is the king of p2p in US
05:40:29 <ocean[m]> PayPal is the worst 
05:58:14 <moneromooo> Paypal steals from people.
06:01:51 <TrasherDK[m]> As in. We'll fine peps who's social media posts we don't like. That kinda stealing?
06:03:43 <ceetee[m]> If a seller refunds a PayPal transaction for whatever reason, PayPal keeps the entire transaction fee
06:03:55 <ceetee[m]> it used to be only the flat 35ct
06:30:20 <r4v3r23[m]> by using their service you agree to their rulea
06:30:37 <r4v3r23[m]> same applies to taxes, "taxation is theft" is retarded
06:30:45 <r4v3r23[m]> s/rulea/rules/
06:32:32 <moneromooo> Is that the good "if you did not pay attention enough, you deserve everything" idiotic viewpoint ?
06:32:58 <moneromooo> Wait. I came back to #monero. Idiot me.
06:52:56 <phroge[m]> <r4v3r23[m]> "by using their service you agree..." <- maybe their service is shit and they hold funds hostage
07:30:31 <r4v3r23[m]> <moneromooo> "Is that the good "if you did not..." <- no, ignorance is forgivable. willingly complying with something you disagree with is not 
07:30:50 <r4v3r23[m]> no one stole your taxes. you paid them
07:32:17 <TrasherDK[m]> 🤣 Try not paying your taxes.
07:35:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> I try
07:36:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> And i havent used paypal in many years
07:36:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sent item, person disputed saying i never shipped - i had tracking - and paypal refunded them
07:37:58 <r4v3r23[m]> <TrasherDK[m]> "🤣 Try not paying your taxes." <- easy enough if you want
07:38:25 <ocean[m]> depends on your situation 
07:38:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Try not paying income tax 
07:38:48 <TrasherDK[m]> I used paypal to pay for some services. When I terminated those services, my account was dormant for a few years. When they did the social media fines thing, I terminated the account.
07:38:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Which is obvious theft
07:39:12 <r4v3r23[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: easy
07:39:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sayibg tax isnt theft just shows youre green
07:39:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> And dont know laws
07:39:34 <TrasherDK[m]> Mooo is right. This discussion is stupid. I'm out.
08:02:59 <r4v3r23[m]> keep buying into the lie that taxes are inevitable
08:03:03 <r4v3r23[m]> your problem, not mine
08:08:02 <sech1> If you're wealthy enough, you can juggle with offshore jurisdictions and "charity" to be effectively at 0% tax
08:09:48 <r4v3r23[m]> sech1: that's one "legal" way to do it
08:10:27 <sech1> it's 100% legal because those same wealthy people created this law
11:01:01 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Tax havens
11:01:08 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Monero island?
11:06:14 <chch3003[m]> Just curiousity, does TxTangle (Monero coinjoin) is still worked on?
11:27:39 <k4r4b3y[m]> <DanIsnotthemanBr> "Tax havens" <- you mean the internet?
11:29:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> one can have businesses that solely live on the internet. they can find customers on the internet. get paid on the internet. and the traditional meatspace state would be none the wiser.
11:39:00 <TheDisruptiveCol> <k4r4b3y[m]> "one can have businesses that..." <- i get paid solely in XMR for some work i do.  But to make it spendable i have to do some magic and declare some of it as earnings on another business so i can pay bills with it.  
11:39:47 <TheDisruptiveCol> there are plenty of things i can buy with XMR, however paying my mortgage isn't one of them.   Hopefully one day i buy a house in crypto who knows lol  
11:43:48 <k4r4b3y[m]> TheDisruptiveCol: commendable
11:44:13 <k4r4b3y[m]> TheDisruptiveCol: you are right. Paying your mortgage with XMR...we are a bit too early for that.
11:45:46 <k4r4b3y[m]> but the point stays the same: XMR offers people the option of declaring or not declaring their income earnings. And if they choose to declare, they have further option to declare as much as they see fit. This is freedom. As opposed to government snooping in on your bank statements and forcefully taking his cut without ever asking your consent.
11:47:33 <TheDisruptiveCol> k4r4b3y[m]: Nice to keep yourself in a certain tax bracket 😉 
11:48:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> 😉
11:49:18 <TheDisruptiveCol> one thing i do wonder about is how we will operate in a post-CBDC world.  Essentially there will exist 2 economies almost.  People trading privacy coins for privacy things in a circular economy essentially, and people buying milk with CBDCs  
11:50:07 <DanIsnotthemanBr> If there allowed to buy milk
11:50:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> I can also foresee people offering milk for XMR. There is no reason for the "privacy things" market to eat up the "milk & other white market things" market.
11:50:51 <DanIsnotthemanBr> No milk for you
11:50:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Theres at least a few farmers who already accept xmr
11:51:28 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Yeah i think mr doug buys milk with xmr
11:51:28 <TheDisruptiveCol> How we will be able to move from say XMR to FedNow Dollars or back when the on-ramps and off-ramps have been choked out of existence.   Sure i can run a "t-shirt" store that doesn't sell t-shirts and you pay me some FedNow bucks, and i send you monero.  but then i have other issues.   There will always be ways it will just become more complicated.  
11:52:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Localmonero
11:52:57 <DanIsnotthemanBr> It be like a drug deal buying xmr
11:53:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its just forex exchsnge at the end of the day
11:53:05 <TheDisruptiveCol> Makes me wonder how you're going to pick up a bag of weed in the future with a cashless society.   Every guy on the corner gonna need to have a payment terminal and a legit business to justify those transactions. 
11:53:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not really. People sell drugs using cashapp
11:53:37 <TheDisruptiveCol> Those people are retarded 
11:53:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Theyre also not in jail
11:53:50 <TheDisruptiveCol> or they are getting crackheads to open accounts for them.  
11:53:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> lol
11:54:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> TheDisruptiveCol: for that, my friend, we should start TODAY and build up merchant-customer networks & relationships. We should start offering products and services that only the FedNow dollars buys in the future. In other words, start finding (or being) the merchants that are willing to exchange milk, meat, coffee or whatever for XMR, today.
11:54:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> TheDisruptiveCol: Or the government supports dealers of their drugs?
11:54:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> They dont import the stuff for no reason 
11:54:49 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Taxable
11:55:52 <TheDisruptiveCol> ofrnxmr[m]: At a lower level i don't think so, atleast my in country the cops are pretty on your ass if you self drugs.  At the top level sure its all corrupt, also like we have seen with banks laundering for the cartels and even just with fraud in general, which i've seen at companies i've worked at, as long as the card issuer honours the transaction most companies don't care.  volume is volume.  
11:56:02 <TheDisruptiveCol> s/self/sell/
11:57:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> anyway my point is dirty money makes its way back intonthe system via trading on black markets 
11:57:37 <TheDisruptiveCol> i'd see fraud desks at big e-commerce companies, Adyen etc will be set to allow the transaction providing the card issuer isn't going to charge us back.  We will take the payment, knowing in many cases that fraud is likely, and just not care.   Investors don't care about details, they do care about new sign ups and transaction volume.   Fraud helps 
11:57:51 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Yeah one our banks got into shit for money laundering transaction and got a fine
11:58:07 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Me or you
11:58:09 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Jail
11:58:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Seem like a fair system aye
11:59:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> All the most heavily promoted cex are scamsand frauds
11:59:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> You see ftx plastered as a trusted exchange for all of 2021/22
11:59:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> thrn rugged lol
11:59:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Doge, ape, nfts
11:59:41 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Still trying to trade again
11:59:44 <TheDisruptiveCol> i'm waiting for the CoinBase house of cards tbh.  
11:59:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah ^
12:00:39 <TheDisruptiveCol> i hope not, in the short term because fuck another crypto winter.   But long term all these CEXs do need to die.  it'll lead to regulation, but it'll also lead to a boom in privacy coins  
12:00:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> How any (crypto)currency exchsnge will list every scam except for the ones that act like currency
12:01:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> i swear this is "you owe the irs" scams x1000000
12:01:11 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Securities *
12:01:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> But they get away with it, and even helped run it
12:01:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> TheDisruptiveCol: Conbase
12:01:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> They only list scams
12:01:58 <TheDisruptiveCol> One thing i'm watching is the ISO20022 coins, I think whether we like it or not XRP, Stellar and maybe others will be big players in how CBDCs work.   
12:01:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> they SHOULD die
12:02:18 <TheDisruptiveCol> XRPL and Stella have already signed up multiple countries to build their CBDCs 
12:02:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xrp isnt even verifiable
12:02:29 <TheDisruptiveCol> well, Ripple itself using XRPL.  
12:02:30 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Well here its using eth
12:02:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like 200k of the first blocks are MIA
12:02:58 <TheDisruptiveCol> ofrnxmr[m]: well yeah, i fucking hate XRP tbh  its the complete opposite of a cryptocurrency imho 
12:03:31 <DanIsnotthemanBr> They release coin when they want and give themself coins
12:03:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> and nah, orivscy coins are how cbdcs will work 
12:03:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> The ripple distraction is a scam
12:03:46 <DanIsnotthemanBr> s/coin/coins/
12:03:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Theres a reason they dont speak on xmr 
12:03:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> They know theyrr fucked if xmr takesoff
12:04:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because they need crypto to suck
12:04:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> So the cdbc can be better
12:04:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cdbc >>> btc
12:04:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> But not xmr
12:04:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> fiat ks privste. Centralized, but private.
12:05:03 <DanIsnotthemanBr> I find it weird where xrp go the government is bad, but then go oh cbdcs will be built in it.
12:05:20 <TheDisruptiveCol> i think their end goal is controllable money, you really won't be able to buy that burger this week or buy that sugary drink.   
12:05:34 <TheDisruptiveCol> they give 0 fucks about the tech outside of its ability to control.  
12:05:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Government sells btc that it seizes
12:05:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> It keeps the xmr 
12:06:39 <TheDisruptiveCol> i'm edging my bets.  i keep BTC, XMR, LTC, PART and some other weird shit on deck that might meme  
12:06:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> People onky think cbdc will be transparent because scam 1-1000 is
12:06:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cbdc will be as good as monero, but centralized 
12:07:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> I have no reason to hold onto any fake money
12:07:49 <DanIsnotthemanBr> There was thing i read about how governments will end up on imf coin cause of bis
12:08:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> If its design principals are NFT bullshit (including DOA btc) thrn what would i hold em for
12:08:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> They arent money
12:08:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> They are trackers that hold value
12:09:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> If i go to the store and and thry refund me $300, 2 weeks after my purchase
12:09:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Idgaf where the money csme from
12:09:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> They can put it on cash, credit, debit whateber
12:09:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nobidy will ever claim i recieved dirty money 
12:09:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btc is a joke
12:09:41 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Nft are good for laundering
12:09:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> woukd be if they were private ^
12:10:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Theyre good for the actual act of laundering money by using thr PR that nfts are eorth money
12:10:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> But anyone who did research found out the expensive nfts were all scams and launderinf 
12:11:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Laundering involved taking dirty money on one chain and exchainging it for an(ther chain
12:11:34 <nioc> ofrnxmr[m]: why aren't you sending people to offtopic? 
12:11:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> ie cash for goods if fiat
12:11:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> good question
12:11:56 <TheDisruptiveCol> DanIsnotthemanBr: Like all art. 
12:12:00 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Xmr
12:12:03 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Fixed
12:12:07 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Ontopic
12:12:07 <nioc> RIP mooo
12:12:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> @ofrnxmr Monero Offtopic  pls
12:12:24 <plowsof11> we had our chance with mooo :'((
12:12:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> nioc: Hey, it wasnt me this time
12:13:13 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Copy pasta this convo there
12:13:21 <nioc> the discussion is like ground hog's day  :D
12:13:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> But ya > Monero Offtopic  lfg
12:13:45 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Circle of life
15:34:34 <toralien[m]> <DanIsnotthemanBr> "Nft are good for laundering" <- ban all artists, artworks are used for laundering money
15:48:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero Offtopic  💢
16:25:42 <Guest6852> is there a good stable coin by the standards of the monero community?
16:34:43 <RavFX[m]> XMR is a relatively good stablecoin
16:35:24 <TrasherDK[m]> 😅😂🤣
16:39:28 <bibideJaffa> hehehe
16:40:00 <great_taste> stability is delusional
16:43:48 <bibideJaffa> compared to bitcoin it is as valuable as when it was worth 240 euro's coin, relative is indeed the word there :-)
16:44:09 <bibideJaffa> * 240  / coin
16:45:01 <bibideJaffa> 1 XMR is still 1 XMR :p
18:15:01 * TrasherDK[m] uploaded an image: (75KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/QzAPcvqoMWZwcOsvTjiFqnpA/image.png >
19:18:22 <bridgerton[m]> <᷾s> Does monero-wallet-cli support regtest nodes
19:19:25 <bridgerton[m]> <᷾s> It says the node isn't started when I try to connect it to a regtest node
19:57:47 <selsta> what are you trying to do with regtest?
20:03:30 <bridgerton[m]> <᷾s> testing an app, regtest would be most convenient because of fixed difficulty
20:11:49 <selsta> why not start a normal daemon with fixed difficulty?
20:12:32 <selsta> regtest is for automated testing, i'm not sure if it's supposed to be used manually with monero-wallet-cli
20:15:10 <bridgerton[m]> <᷾s> Ah ok I didn't know I could run a private chain without regtest
20:15:13 <bridgerton[m]> <᷾s> Thanks
20:21:40 <selsta> https://moneroexamples.github.io/private-testnet/
20:23:06 <selsta> this doesn't set fixed-diff but you can do it manually