00:14:15 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Lets get rid of blockchain too its bloat ;)
00:58:06 <politicalweasel[> Agreed. 1mb blocks are waaay too big. We need a 0 byte blocksize. That way, anyone can verify blocks in their heads. Anything more than that would basically just be a data center.
01:04:06 <plowsof11> i guess then we could move the blockchain to binance and trade in paper monero (as fast as LN, if not faster)
01:04:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btc should do that
01:04:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> only enough blocksize to open 1 ln channel a day
01:04:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, isnt binance a better l2 anyway
01:04:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just sign up with your email address and have insurance and cefi 
01:04:46 <plowsof11> MyMoneroance
01:05:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> While there is a touch of sarcasm in my voice, i am not inplying that LN is bettrr than binance 
01:05:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> The only implication here is "they are the same picture"
01:05:59 <great_taste> binance requires kyc
01:06:26 <plowsof11> actually mymonero doesnt have your spend key , and is real monero , wont work, we need full paper monero binance solution
01:06:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Haveno
01:06:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> I hope haveno allows me to do fractional reserve market making 
01:07:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Frontend only yeah? No backend required
01:08:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Theres nothing more that i want than to put up 500k with of buy orders on haveno, whole onky having $50
01:08:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: Backend only* im an offtopic man myself 
01:09:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> But seriously. I hope haveno released a mainnet alpha
01:10:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> And that i can use it with my existing node (?)
01:10:27 <RavFX[m]> I hope too, considering I was using the Haveno beta months ago, without real issue
01:10:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Testnet = i probably wont play with it
01:10:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nor any any potential users
01:10:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Spinning up nodes is like pulling teeth
01:10:28 <RavFX[m]> * Haveno beta / testnet months ago,
01:11:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> if mainnet, just needs to be YMMV, EXPIRIMENTAL, DONT BLAME US IF YOU LOSE FUNDS
01:11:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> And ofrnxmr and 500 others will yolo into it
01:11:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> And find 90% bugs within days
01:57:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> pinging any users of #unstoppableswap:matrix.org  < please join room and help your comrade
01:57:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> MajesticBank @MajesticBank:libera.chat:  ser
03:30:26 <mlcboss[m]> Monero debit / credit cards and im ok with KYC 
11:03:52 <k4r4b3y[m]> > <@politicalweasel:matrix.org> A 2nd layer doesn't inherently have to be a clown show like LN is. Low fees + big blocks + direct channels (instead of convoluted routing BS) = good
11:03:52 <k4r4b3y[m]> interesting perspective. since monero has low fees and dynamic blocksizes, people can afford opening a new channel per counterparty. that's cool.
11:05:06 <k4r4b3y[m]> one can make the case that btc's tx fees might have put the constrain on the LN design to make it routable using other peoples' channels, as normal bitcoiners cannot afford to open a new channel per counterparty.
11:05:36 <k4r4b3y[m]> and that constrain and design decision still haunts btc's LN today: there are still routings failing regularly.
11:07:12 <k4r4b3y[m]> with monero, we can have an off-chain microtransaction payment technique that can make the monero payments within that off-chain channel ephemeral.
11:08:35 <k4r4b3y[m]> and we can have that method not necessarily inter-routable with other peoples' payment channels. that would save the devs from a huge pain in the neck.
11:12:12 <TrasherDK[m]> A solution, desperately searching for a problem to solve, in all the wrong places.
11:12:12 <TrasherDK[m]> Why would one need a L2 for something that is already on L1?
11:13:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> I think Seth made the good point that an L2 payment channelmight provide the payments ephemral quality. Something that doesn't exist a blockchain.
11:14:31 <k4r4b3y[m]> For instance, today we have 16 ring size. In the past we had fewer. Many people have used Monero with lower ring sizes. And their transactions are inscribed on the monero blockchain forever.
11:14:38 <TrasherDK[m]> Can you translate might provide the payments ephemral quality. What does that mean?
11:16:06 <k4r4b3y[m]> Yeah. "Ephemeral" in the sense that once it is done and channel is closed, the in-channel transactions do not leave a trace in the blockchain.
11:18:24 <TrasherDK[m]> Transfer of ownership will be the same. Inputs => outputs.
11:18:43 <k4r4b3y[m]> Yes. But only the end-state of the payment channel will be reflected on the blockchain.
11:21:23 <someoneelse49549> Sry If I'm stupid. But imagine Alice and Bob. Bob open a payment channel with Alice. Alice pay Bob. Bob then close the payment channel. It'll result the same as Alice doing an on-chain transaction with Bob, when the funds are moved
11:21:32 <someoneelse49549> Am I missing something?
11:22:35 <k4r4b3y[m]> Yeah, you are more or less right. However, if Alice makes multiple small payments for some online widgets or something, and then Bob closes the channel, you will not see how many transactions Alice made.
11:23:47 <someoneelse49549> I think we should have payment channel, just for bypassing the 10 blocks output lock time
11:24:11 <someoneelse49549> Iirc the current proposal in the monero research lab are : reduce it or its impossible
11:24:28 <someoneelse49549> * its impossible to delete it
11:25:59 <TrasherDK[m]> But if Alice make many small payments to Bob, on-chain, then what? That would still just be a bunch of anonymous transactions.
11:28:57 <k4r4b3y[m]> And each of those transactions would be individually added to the blockchain. They would be distinct entities that could be seen and studied.
11:32:12 <TrasherDK[m]> Did someone claim the IRS-bounty, and forgot to tell me? I'm pretty sure all transactions are seen, studied and all kinds of statistics pulled out.
11:33:26 <k4r4b3y[m]> That "ephemerality" also can provide some "tidying up" for the rapid microtransactions with XMR. For example, today you can gamble with XMR by betting on its next block hash. So, instead of the gambler making a transaction per bet, he can open a payment channel with the gambling service, and do all his bets in that channel. And when he is done, he closes the channel and only one transaction gets to enter the blockchain, saving all of us
11:33:26 <k4r4b3y[m]> from unnnecessary bloat.
11:40:10 <TrasherDK[m]> If nothing else, you put a smile on my face with that example.
11:43:26 <k4r4b3y[m]> Cool. Nothing wrong with that :)
11:44:02 <k4r4b3y[m]> I don't think payment channels is a pressing need with XMR today, and I don't know if we will ever need such a "contraption".
11:44:46 <k4r4b3y[m]> I trust XMR's on-chain scaling tech and the general tech improvements with digital storage space and internet bandwidth.
11:45:58 <k4r4b3y[m]> I was just speculating upon another anon's suggestion that XMR's dynamic blocksizes and on-chain scaling might facilitate a better off-chain payment layers than what they have in btc today.
11:46:05 <TrasherDK[m]> That aligns pretty good to my initial comment on this matter 🙂
12:31:24 <pmn> my distro has localmonero.com as a feature for feather, i can't even connect to that machine. duckduck says go to localmoenro.co (sans m at the end), what is the diff?
12:49:21 <nioc> AFAIK the website is .co
12:49:51 <nioc> no idea why feather says .com
12:50:07 <k4r4b3y[m]> what do you mean "your distro has localmonero.com as a feature for feather" ?
12:50:24 <k4r4b3y[m]> the correct URL for Local Monero is localmonero.co
12:52:26 <pmn> keepemup[m]: gentoo package has USE flag localmonero.com... possibly a typo
12:52:39 <pmn> will report upstream
14:30:28 <malmen> anyone here is tryed to compile openmonero recently ?
14:37:06 <plowsof11> maybe cryptogrampy? whats wrong 
14:57:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> More specifically, did something break for you "recently"? If so, what?
14:58:34 <malmen> I dont know if that replys are intented for me anyway, while trying to compile openmonero it is givin me error on the monero path, it seems that the monero build folder should had changed
15:05:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> What is the error
15:06:06 <malmen> I am compiling monero again (this time from master) I will show once I finish it
15:06:11 <plowsof11> dont make me read a manual malmen 
15:06:36 <plowsof11> thats what mondays are for
15:06:53 <malmen> I can come back on monday :D
15:07:28 <plowsof11> lol its ok 
15:12:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fridays are the best days
15:13:08 <lza_menace> malmen the monero dir is supposed to be at ../monero in relation to your openmonero dir
15:13:52 <malmen> lza_menace, according to documentation should be on ~/monero but I also already had it on ../monero
15:14:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> see plowsof, im psychic
15:14:27 <TrasherDK[m]> $(realpath ../monero)
15:14:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Voila
15:16:48 <malmen> well, it just worked with monero master branch (on ~/monero) the release-v0.18 is the one failing
15:17:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds good
15:19:14 <plowsof11> something to do with the folder structure of building master vs release? monero/build/release vs monero/build/master? 
15:22:36 <malmen> I believe thats the issue, unfortunetely I dont have the released built now to compare the structure
15:22:50 <malmen> but I can try it later and open a issue if thats indeed the problem
15:23:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Any reason using openmonero instead of LWS?
15:23:54 <malmen> I dont know LWS
15:24:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero Community Dev 
15:24:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-community-dev
15:26:57 <malmen> It didnt show on my search but I will give it a try, I am still in research mode for my project 
15:28:02 <cryptogrampy[m]> OpenMonero (from my understanding) is a full light wallet solution- it has a back end server implementation AND a front end.  I was able to get the front end of OpenMonero to talk to V Tnerd's Monero-LWS implementation
15:28:14 <cryptogrampy[m]> But I wasn't able to get sending to work
15:28:21 <cryptogrampy[m]> (i think).  can't remmeber
15:28:56 <cryptogrampy[m]> I just got MyMonero web wallet to work with the Monero-LWS server though 😄
15:28:57 <cryptogrampy[m]> Selfhosted MyMonero web wallet
15:29:55 <malmen> by mymonero you are refering to mymonero/mymonero-core-js ? 
15:30:59 <cryptogrampy[m]> https://github.com/mymonero/mymonero-web-js
15:31:16 <cryptogrampy[m]> using https://github.com/vtnerd/monero-lws/ for the backend
15:31:47 <malmen> the whole wallet
15:32:15 <malmen> it was simple to work with mymonero wallet as just using monero-lws endpoint  or you need to tweek your way arround ? 
15:32:41 <cryptogrampy[m]> I thought it would be fun to host the web-wallet
15:32:42 <endogenic> those apis should be compatible
15:32:56 <cryptogrampy[m]> I have some problems with the mymonero mobile wallet
15:34:10 <cryptogrampy[m]> It's very easy to accidentally leak your private view key to api.mymonero.com using the mobile wallet.  
15:34:50 <endogenic> as it is to leak anything to anyone hosting a web wallet
15:35:20 <cryptogrampy[m]> if you're selfhosting the web wallet, and using it yourself, it's a much better situation
15:35:23 <endogenic> it doesnt need to be hosted fwiw
15:35:47 <cryptogrampy[m]> i know that i configured the web wallet to use my own lws api, so i don't have to worry as much about leaking 
15:36:11 <cryptogrampy[m]> the static web files are built with my lws api hard coded
15:36:43 <cryptogrampy[m]> the mobile app will default to api.mymonero.com 
15:37:55 <cryptogrampy[m]> The only safe way to use the mymonero mobile wallet is along with a tool that can block outgoing http requests to their server
18:07:12 <dANBs[m]> race4014[xmpp]: Why is any other way unsafe?
18:20:41 <lza_menace> > It's very easy to accidentally leak your private view key to api.mymonero.com
18:49:09 <pastel3[m]> what's the point of using mymonero wallet?
18:50:25 <hyc> you do it if you can't keep a monero-wallet running 24/7 to keep your info up to date
18:50:55 <hyc> always better to run your own monero-wallet-rpc, IMO
18:59:28 <cryptogrampy[m]> <hyc> "always better to run your own..." <- how safe is the login mechanism for that in 2023 
18:59:35 <cryptogrampy[m]> if you want to access it remotely
19:21:01 <toralien[m]> <cryptogrampy[m]> "how safe is the login mechanism..." <- there is no issue login in it's about broadcasting transactions
19:21:26 <toralien[m]> but as far as i know not even that is that big of a problem when it comes to remote nodes
19:44:09 <toralien[m]> i think monerod signals any device for which SMART reports 512 bytes sector size for it to be a spinning disk drive
19:44:52 <toralien[m]> but that is false, ssd's can report 512 bytes for backwards compatibility
19:46:00 <Iwjsks[m]> Hello
19:46:53 <Iwjsks[m]> I'm new here and reading the mastering Monero book 
19:46:59 <Iwjsks[m]> Nice to meet you all
20:45:02 <RavFX[m]> <toralien[m]> "i think monerod signals any..." <- Seriously? There spinning disk that use 4096bits sectors (for sure, big consumer drives)
21:51:52 <toralien[m]> <Iwjsks[m]> "Nice to meet you all" <- hi 👋
23:04:23 <L3M0R> Hi. Is there's way to speed up the local sync?
23:10:50 <L3M0R> Will importing blockchain help?
23:11:06 <charuto> using an SSD will help greatly
23:11:21 <charuto> alternatively you could use a remote node, but that has its drawbacks
23:11:36 <charuto> L3M0R: i don't believe it would.
23:12:23 <L3M0R> charuto: does the client verifies the blockchain data as it downloads?
23:13:16 <charuto> no, that's usually done after the blockchain download, but it's much faster.
23:15:01 <L3M0R> The client is barely using the bandwidth. I'm getting like 50kbps download speed.
23:17:19 <L3M0R> Whereas downloading the blockchain.raw is getting me nice speed of 10-20MBps
23:19:07 <charuto> honestly i wouldn't know, i've never imported the blockchain personally, and the website says "If you'd prefer to use a raw blockchain instead of syncing from scratch, you can use the most current bootstrap. It is typically much faster to sync from scratch, however, and it also takes a lot less RAM."
23:19:41 <charuto> but maybe that information is outdated or really depends on your daemon peers.
23:22:52 <L3M0R> Let me try importing the blockchain.raw. Node sync seems to be a waste of time.
23:23:01 <L3M0R> Thanks!
23:44:50 <L3M0R> I have another issue while building monero on Gentoo. It says "Failed to emerge dev-libs/randomx-1.1.9"
23:44:57 <L3M0R> https://bpa.st/UUQ4M