04:15:47 <annwyn[m]> Save_G: why not Element/matrix?
04:27:57 <cockliuser[m]> For encryption?
04:28:07 <cockliuser[m]> Nah
04:28:23 <cockliuser[m]> Matrix's encryption is unreliable and generally considered insecure because they love transmitting metadata
05:56:39 <annwyn[m]> cockliuser: doesn't Matrix support PGP?
05:59:13 <annwyn[m]> * cockliuser: doesn't Matrix support PGP?
05:59:13 <annwyn[m]> Ah, confused it with Conversations/xmpp
06:02:39 <k4r4b3y[m]1> matrix uses the tech quite similar to that of signal messenger
06:02:44 <k4r4b3y[m]1> the problem is metadata
06:04:29 <k4r4b3y[m]1> <annwyn[m]> "cockliuser: doesn't Matrix..." <- > <@annwyn:matrix.org> cockliuser: doesn't Matrix support PGP?
06:04:29 <k4r4b3y[m]1> > Ah, confused it with Conversations/xmpp
06:04:29 <k4r4b3y[m]1> what matrix uses is (double ratchet etc.) much better than pgp. With matrix/signal you get forward privacy in the event some decryption keys get compromised. With gpg, you got one key and if it gets compromised your whole chat history can be decrypted.
06:08:44 <Nebraskka> the difference is: signal shares it voluntarily, while self-hosted matrix requires a whole server to be seized
06:14:15 <k4r4b3y[m]1> signal shares "what" voluntarily?
06:14:35 <Nebraskka> discussion here implies signal is vulnerable to metadata leaks
06:15:51 <Nebraskka> of who-when messages who
06:17:03 <Nebraskka> and possibly IPs
06:18:01 <cockliuser[m]> Nebraskka: Signal is not vulnerable to most metadata leaks because the client is built to prevent any metadata leak
06:19:32 <cockliuser[m]> You can also run your own Signal server, but that isn't needed for most threat models because their encryption schemes are secure enough to prevent metadata leaks
06:19:41 <cockliuser[m]> Matrix on the other hand, just doesn't care
06:19:57 <cockliuser[m]> There was an issue where even if you ran your Matrix server, it still phoned home
06:20:20 <cockliuser[m]> * doesn't care (about metadata)
06:20:22 <k4r4b3y[m]1> cockliuser[m]: > <@cockliuser:matrix.org> Matrix on the other hand, just doesn't care (about metadata)
06:20:22 <k4r4b3y[m]1> more like, matrix by design uses a lot of metadata events for its messaging stuff.
06:20:49 <Nebraskka> any github issue related? because you control it's behavior in configuration, so no calls happens anywhere but where you configure it to
06:21:06 <k4r4b3y[m]1> cockliuser[m]: > <@cockliuser:matrix.org> There was an issue where even if you ran your Matrix server, it still phoned home
06:21:06 <k4r4b3y[m]1> I am running one, and in its config files, I tried to shut off any and all phoneing-home events. But god knows what it is doing..
06:29:06 <cockliuser[m]> <Nebraskka> "any github issue related..." <- Many github issues but I found this link that sums most of them up
06:29:07 <cockliuser[m]> https://serpentsec.1337.cx/matrix
06:31:35 <Nebraskka> what exactly is being mentioned as "metadata issue" regarding matrix? usually it's about who-when contact who, and matrix has advantages on that
06:33:15 <Nebraskka> thanks, thought afaik it was an overall protocol reference docs and it's dns is unresolvable at the moment
07:02:56 <jollyboy[m]> recommendations for email provider - not 14 eyes country?
07:02:59 <jollyboy[m]> any ideas?
07:03:21 <jollyboy[m]> tutanota is good...but 14 eyes
07:19:27 <DanIsnotthemanBr> doesnt really matter if its zero knowledge encryption. But if your sending an email without pgp doesnt matter where it is cause it can be read
07:19:32 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/fourteen-eyes-countries
07:20:00 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Many privacy oriented services like to pretend that the physical location of their services exempts them from falling into the nets of the global surveillance apparatus. One commonly cited case of a “Fourteen Eyes Free Zone” is the small nation of Switzerland.
07:20:00 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Despite claiming that data hosted in Switzerland is more secure as the country is outside of the 14 Eyes (which is technically true as Switzerland does not belong to the 14 Eyes agreement), the Swiss Federal Intelligence Service (NDB) does monitor the communication of non-Swiss persons, just like any other secret service.
07:27:15 <jollyboy[m]> Dan (Is not the man & Braxman Tomsparks Advocate): good link, I'll have a read
07:39:09 <Atque> Buying monero has became a massive pain in .au. Anyone across an easier way?
07:42:25 <jollyboy[m]> Atque, what methods have you tried?
07:42:29 <jollyboy[m]> I'm in the same boat
07:42:37 <jollyboy[m]> currently getting ready to try localmonero
07:43:00 <jollyboy[m]> its either that, or buying a spyware coin and swapping it to Monero
07:43:03 <jollyboy[m]> that's how I see it
07:50:28 <DanIsnotthemanBr> aus?
07:50:34 <DanIsnotthemanBr> use local monero
08:11:14 <Atque> DanIsnotthemanBr: ty
09:01:05 * kyclol[m] uploaded an image: (272KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/WdgcWwQidJJZPIsUYmVYfIrh/image.png >
09:11:45 <k4r4b3y[m]1> jannies are asleep post rare justins?
09:39:17 <ceetee[m]> <kyclol[m]> "image.png" <- psyop
09:40:29 <ceetee[m]> lemme guess, I am supposed to use elite wallet?
09:55:52 <jollyboy[m]> kyclol: VERY interesting
09:55:58 <jollyboy[m]> tell us more
10:06:19 <jollyboy[m]> If someone buys from kraken and sells at localmonero, is the coin still vulnerable to EAE attacks
10:06:34 <jollyboy[m]> mind you, I don't really understand what an EAE attack is
10:08:37 <k4r4b3y[m]1> jollyboy[m]: > <@jollyboy:matrix.org> mind you, I don't really understand what an EAE attack is
10:08:37 <k4r4b3y[m]1> start here
11:41:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> <Save_G[m]> "how does this data base thing..." <- Snapshots
12:41:56 <xfedex[m]> giusep11: This chat is English-only. If you wish to speak in Italian, please join #monero-italia:monero.social 
12:44:02 <susman1[m]> is there a UK monero group?
13:01:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hm?
13:02:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Please reword the question
13:02:36 <giusep11[m]> how to start i downloaded the gui wallet in advanced mode now it's downloading the blockchain for me
13:03:08 <giusep11[m]> I had a basic wallet and I entered unmineable but I didn't trust it and I redid the wallet but it's slow
13:04:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> so you do NOT want to download the blockchain (run a node)? or you do?
13:05:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> If not, youll need to switch from "local node" mode to a "remote node"
13:07:03 <giusep11[m]> I was interested in mining and therefore I need the wallet
13:09:02 <giusep11[m]> is this file needed? XMRig miner?
13:17:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes
13:17:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xmrig is the best foss mining software for monero
13:18:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> you dont have to run a node to use a wallet. Just need to use a TRUSTED node
13:19:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Running a node helps the network, but so does mining. So each his own. Or both.
14:10:59 <jollyboy[m]> buy monero on kucoin exchange? good idea?
14:11:39 <jollyboy[m]> I'm thinking buying from an exchange in a 'non-western' country is preferable, because our data is not as meaningful to them
14:35:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> You cant kyc on kucoin as an american
14:36:55 <jollyboy[m]> does that mean you cant signup?
14:37:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Usually its better to ask questions than to offer solutions to problems that we dont know about 
14:37:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xyproblem.info
14:37:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can trade crypto to crypto on kucoin
14:38:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can also trade crypto to crypto on tradeogre
14:38:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can also swap crypto to crypto on many swap sites/services (such as trocador.app)
14:39:10 <jollyboy[m]> thanks
14:39:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> But perhaps none of these reach your goal - which is still unknown at this time
14:39:50 <jollyboy[m]> my goal is to stack Monero
14:40:06 <k4r4b3y[m]1> jollyboy[m]: Based
14:40:14 <k4r4b3y[m]1> 18.7 is suicide stack
14:40:17 <jollyboy[m]> from the comfort of my own home, preferably
14:41:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> jollyboy[m]: That is very vague
14:41:01 <jollyboy[m]> kucoin is either in Hong Kong or Seychellas (cant figure out which)
14:41:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or america
14:41:22 <jollyboy[m]> it might be based in USA?
14:41:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> unless you believe what noncompliant exachanges tell you
14:41:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Could be in north korea. Cmon now
14:41:54 <jollyboy[m]> Im just thinking, western KYC laws wouldnt apply right, if it was hong kong or seychellas
14:42:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> lol
14:42:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> No
14:42:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Youre thinking "kucoin is a regulated entity that is obviousky telling me the truth about their HQ location"
14:43:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> And forning opinions around such a wild assumption
14:43:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xyproblem.info
14:44:11 <jollyboy[m]> xy problem..but to find a solution you need to ask people about each solution
14:44:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Lol. Imagine giving kucoin your id lmao
14:44:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> jollyboy[m]: Did u read
14:44:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cuz thats not what it says
14:45:19 <jollyboy[m]> it says, tell people about the problem, not your proposed solution
14:45:27 <ShaneonConduitrs> BTC going down, XMR going up.. the stable coinnnnn
14:45:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Precisely 
14:45:59 <jollyboy[m]> giving ID to kucoin....what would be so bad?
14:46:05 <jollyboy[m]> or giving it to kraken?
14:46:18 <jollyboy[m]> can you tell me, without joking, what is so bad about that?
14:46:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> The problem is?
14:46:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Again with your solutions
14:47:05 <jollyboy[m]> you said "Imagine giving kucoin your id lmao"
14:47:19 <jollyboy[m]> indicating giving them your id is a bad idea, right...
14:47:35 <jollyboy[m]> (any sorry for going on about this silly stuff)
14:47:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> "how can i use coinbase to self custody xmr using a webwallet"
14:47:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is not a question 
14:48:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> jollyboy[m]: Mhm
14:48:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you want to take the long route
14:49:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Eliminating each of your sokutions 1 by 1 before you do what step 1 should be
14:49:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xyproblem.info
14:49:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> You expkained your goal. It was too vague
14:50:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> You want to stack xmr at home? Any and everyway you acquire xmr will accomplish that
14:50:18 <jollyboy[m]> problem definition:
14:50:18 <jollyboy[m]> scared of KYC, want to obtain Monero
14:50:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Localmonero
14:50:58 <jollyboy[m]> I'm trying that at the moment
14:51:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Finish trying lol
14:51:21 <jollyboy[m]> some people deny you based on country though
14:51:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> I mean
14:51:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> complete the try
14:51:57 <jollyboy[m]> I need to go to a cash changer to make the payment
14:52:06 <jollyboy[m]> so its not from the comfort of my own home
14:52:34 <jollyboy[m]> which is fine
14:52:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> why would you have to do that
14:52:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Unless YOU decide thats how YOU decided you want to pay
14:53:59 <jollyboy[m]> one guy denied credit card payment based on my country, he said 'I have no way to explain to my card processor,  a payment from your country'
14:54:09 <jollyboy[m]> you see its not all so 'cut and dry'
14:55:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Youre "buying" xmr using debt
14:55:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> And complaing about kyc?
14:55:35 <jollyboy[m]> the meaning of your statements isn't clear, I can only guess what you mean
14:55:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> your card know who you are and youre not even paying for the xmr - visa is loaning you money
14:55:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Might as well use kraken
14:56:20 <jollyboy[m]> there not loaning me, it gets taken from my account
14:56:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Credit? Is a loan
14:56:49 <jollyboy[m]> kraken - you purchase data will remain with a USA company, forever
14:56:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Visa doesnt settle instantly either and csn be revoked 
14:56:53 <jollyboy[m]> thats what I dont like
14:57:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> And credit wont, lmao?
14:57:20 <jollyboy[m]> anyway, Im not taking out a loan
14:57:34 <jollyboy[m]> credit card doesnt know the nature of the transaction
14:57:45 <jollyboy[m]> kraken and others do
14:58:37 <jollyboy[m]> anyway, how many Monero users buy from american exchanges do you think?
14:59:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> jollyboy[m]: Lol
14:59:29 <jollyboy[m]> your 'laughing your ass off' alot, haha
14:59:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> jollyboy[m]: Most of them
15:00:13 <jollyboy[m]> yeah...
15:00:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Either directly or by buying litecoin etc and swapping for xmr which usually comes from binance 
15:00:33 <jollyboy[m]> interesting
15:01:03 <jollyboy[m]> that is very precise information. so it seems certain exchanges do certain swaps
15:01:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not really. What interesting is that someone afraid of kyc would like to mix no-kyc with credit
15:01:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> No
15:01:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Onky certain exchanges HAVE xmr
15:02:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> So when a swap service needs xmr, they get it from whoever has liquidity 
15:03:10 <jollyboy[m]> if 'da gabament' has a crypto crackdown, they can go to the exchanges and say 'who bought da coins?'
15:03:35 <jollyboy[m]> but if you buy localmonero via visa, the trail is very different
15:03:39 <jollyboy[m]> am I wrong?
15:04:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes
15:04:31 <jollyboy[m]> so tell me all about it
15:04:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who is setup to accept credit card payments? 
15:05:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> And sell xmr while doing so?
15:05:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Regulated businesses. Duh
15:05:27 <jollyboy[m]> theres a few on localmonero, it seems
15:05:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mhm
15:05:49 <jollyboy[m]> but the paper trail is so different
15:05:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you think the gabanment doesnt know they SELL CRYPTO
15:06:18 <jollyboy[m]> I dont know
15:06:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> When their registered business is a crypto sales business?
15:06:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> No kyc = no kyc
15:06:45 <jollyboy[m]> Im just saying to find those transactions....they would have to get data from visa
15:06:52 <jollyboy[m]> and go that route
15:07:06 <jollyboy[m]> and exchange would just give them 10GB of data in JSON
15:07:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dunno wth pissed in "lemonade" youre trying to drink... but thats a cup-o-piss now
15:07:27 <rbrunner> In your scenario, what would that crypto-cracking-down government do to you after they found out you bought XMR at one time in the past?
15:07:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lols, like evert credit seller on LM
15:08:15 <jollyboy[m]> hahaha
15:08:44 <jollyboy[m]> yes but what crypto did they buy
15:08:55 <jollyboy[m]> whats the transaction ID
15:09:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> No kyc = no kyc
15:09:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> not "theyll never know. Who's gonna know?" Sprinkle a little kyc and then go buy from a honeypot 
15:09:05 <jollyboy[m]> etc etc, visa purchase aint got all that metadeta
15:09:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> jollyboy[m]: If youre afraid of buying xmr 💀
15:10:25 <jollyboy[m]> you telling me Ive got to meet someone at the airport to get your 'pure no-kyc'?
15:10:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id never tell these fools "i bought doge". Wa am i, getting scammed? 
15:10:55 <smokyrobinson> Naruto Uzumaki visits Monterrey and meets Governor Samuel Garcia and starts a romantic escapade with him. Naruto was feeling restless as he wandered through the streets of Monterrey, Mexico. As he walked, he stumbled upon a seedy bar called "El Coño Rojo," which loosely translates to "The Red Pussy." Naruto was intrigued and decided to check it out. https://justpaste.it/Naruto_Makes_Love_Samuel_Ga
15:10:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nah. I buy xmrx bcuz its bettrr than visa #stepyourgameupvisa
15:10:57 <jollyboy[m]> sprinkle a little kyc...
15:11:00 <smokyrobinson> rcia
15:11:16 <smokyrobinson> Naruto Uzumaki visits Monterrey and meets Governor Samuel Garcia and starts a romantic escapade with him.  https://justpaste.it/Naruto_Makes_Love_Samuel_Garcia
15:11:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Brooooooooo
15:11:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Naruto sucks
15:11:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  please kick this tasteless asshole
15:12:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes
15:12:03 <jollyboy[m]> must be a bot?
15:12:43 <jollyboy[m]> mathew kratter trader university - wanna buy bitcoinc anonymously - go to the airport
15:12:51 <jollyboy[m]> serisouly laughed so much
15:12:57 <jollyboy[m]> when I saw that
15:13:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah lol
15:13:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Me? I just empty kraken reserves 
15:14:10 <jollyboy[m]> you use kraken?
15:14:14 <jollyboy[m]> (Im considering it)
15:14:17 <rbrunner> Well, quite in general, how many things can you still do fully anonymously without problems in today's world?
15:14:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not everyone CAN kyc, but someones gotta keep buying pressure on them
15:14:48 <jollyboy[m]> what do you mean buying pressure?
15:15:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> I mean, if we never buy on exchanges, who is?
15:15:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> If there is no buy orders, the price can freefall
15:16:02 <jollyboy[m]> so if no one sells/buys on exchanges, XMR price will fall?
15:16:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right
15:16:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because we spend it > store sells it on binance 
15:17:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> when storr sells, no buyers = price drop
15:18:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive always been surprised at just how bad monero users are at trading stocks
15:19:16 <jollyboy[m]> someone needs to teach you
15:19:20 <jollyboy[m]> like all things in life
15:19:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Example.. do you remember gamestop?
15:19:53 <rbrunner> Where would you know from how Monero users trde stock?
15:19:54 <jollyboy[m]> I remembering hearing about it
15:19:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> The wallstreetbets short squeeze?
15:20:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> from trading monero Lol
15:20:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Of
15:20:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Oh*, how they trade stock --
15:21:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because monero is adversarial. Monero traders, if they were good at it, would be able to squeeze binance
15:21:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Instead we have moneruns and nobody calling out the stupidity
15:22:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Meaning nobody understands, or anybody that does is trading against xmr
15:22:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero viral adoption similar to gamestop, shoukd be easier than gamestop
15:22:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> And actually accomplish what gamestop shilled 
15:22:58 <rbrunner> You speak in riddles for me ...
15:23:31 <rbrunner> Gamestop was a singular event, mostly a black swan event. Don't you put too much into that?
15:23:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> No
15:24:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> If gme was xmr it would have never stopped
15:24:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> the rules of gme are "how to perform a short squeeze"
15:24:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerun cant even do something as simple as look at the gme playbook
15:24:41 <rbrunner> How to perform a *successful* short squeeze. Such are very far between.
15:24:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> You cant just withdraw. You need to set sell orders
15:24:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because they need to cover their shorts 
15:25:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you cant just market buy and then leave
15:25:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Without limit orders, price is allowed to freefall
15:27:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> So if youre binance, you can papertrade xmr right back down to levels where monerun people are in the red. There are no real buy orders stopping you
15:27:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats what is known as a wall
15:28:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> You need to set walls and FORCE binance to sell xmr to you at a loss. But lack of traders means binance barely has to sell any xmr to push the price down
15:29:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Unlike other crypto, monero DOES have some nice unique qualities.
15:29:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> when it gets slapped down on an empty orderbook, people show up and buy the dip
15:29:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> And xmr tends to recover very fast due to actual peoply waiting for a dip
15:30:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> but yeah. Gme was a flash in thr pan because its basically a shitcoin
15:30:51 <rbrunner> Not sure what you mean. BTC at USD 10,000 would also get a hell of a lot of "actual people" buying the dip, no?
15:31:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> no
15:31:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btc "actual" users are a tiny fraction of the volume 
15:32:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> And bts has a lot of walls made by big money
15:33:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Do people buy thr dip? Of course 
15:33:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> but those people were already on echange 
15:33:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> And had most of their buy orders already blown through 
15:36:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xmr orderbook = empty > volume shows up
15:36:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> btc orderbook = full > rugged > using leftover cash to reenter positions or buy the dip
15:36:58 <rbrunner> What did you mean earlier with "squeeze binance". If Monero traders were able to successfully do that, what would happen? Who would profit, in which way?
15:37:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Those wallstreet bets guys would be far better off if they knew about monero instead 
15:39:27 <k4r4b3y[m]1> "Shill, shill, shill.. Your were born to shill."
15:42:03 <ceetee[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "You need to set walls and..." <- Unfortunately it is stupid for a low volume trader to do this; if the wall is broken it only means you have overpaid for your XMR.
15:42:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its even more stupid to TELL binance ahead of time to remove their sell walls
15:42:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then market slap a buu
15:43:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then run away with your overpriced xmr thinking you accomokished something
15:43:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> While binance proceeds to sell xmr right back down
15:43:38 <k4r4b3y[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: "imma monero extremist..in da lab likea chemist."
15:43:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> If im binance, im looking forward to monerun
15:44:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Going to sell a few thousand xmr at a higher price than normall? Cool
15:44:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ill buy back next week at a 15% dip
15:44:37 <side-trips[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Because monero is adversarial..." <- I'm inspired and greatly wish to become a good monero trader who understands
15:44:37 <side-trips[m]> Please shill and force learning material towards my direction; are you advising us to stop taking part in monerun? or do away with it altogether?
15:45:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerun needs to look at gamestop and follow what they did
15:45:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerun as it is, benefits the exchange 
15:45:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> As ceetee said, we dont have enough buying pressure to empty the reserves or to even create solid walls
15:46:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> The intent should be to empty orderbooks and replace them with 5k sells
15:46:34 <ceetee[m]> its really hard to understand the dynamics, its not intuitive, at least not for me
15:46:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> yeah. Thats why WSB was good
15:47:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> They got a lot of people who dont understand, to just follow some simple steps 
15:47:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> And watch it snowball
15:47:19 <k4r4b3y[m]1> Trust the plan.
15:48:39 <k4r4b3y[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: Isn't this what the ngu-klique also achieved over at the btcland?
15:48:47 <rbrunner> "5k sells". Please elaborate.
15:48:52 <k4r4b3y[m]1> "Just stack sats bro. Don't think.."
15:49:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> rbrunner: Limit sell xmr @5k so the orderbook shows real liquidity 
15:50:00 <rbrunner> I offer some XMR for some equivalent of USD 5000?
15:50:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> yup
15:50:37 <rbrunner> And that's more than plain nonsense that everybody will just plainly ignore?
15:50:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> (or any high enough number that whoever is shorting cant buy back)
15:51:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> No, thats setting the weight of the liquidity on the orderbook
15:52:11 <ceetee[m]> Thinking about it, the problem is that binance can just close withdrawals and wait for the market to cool down. Their short position does not have any interest associated with it
15:52:21 <ceetee[m]> * any interest rate associated with
15:53:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> exactly. Just like with gme. 
15:53:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> problem os. Xmr is xmr. They have to hand it over eventually. And they cant sell xmr they dont have 
15:54:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> So if they are paper selling xmr and letting me set limits at 5k, but nobody can accquire kiquidity from them
15:54:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> = short squeeze accompkished 
15:54:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Time to close the next exchange too
15:54:41 <rbrunner> And what's preventing this? Not enough people with the required trading knowledge?
15:54:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fixedfloat cant get xmr from binance - needs to go to kucoin
15:54:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kucoin prices are higher because mkre vokume and less kiquidity
15:55:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Once kucoin fucks around or runs out, kraken get hit 
15:55:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> rbrunner: Yeah
15:55:26 <rbrunner> Interesting theory.
15:55:33 <k4r4b3y[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: Really, that simple?
15:55:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> And i think a bit of misdirection where xmr people are active\y told to avoid trading it
15:56:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xmr as an asset has outoerformed a lot of things 
15:56:32 <rbrunner> "If something looks too good, it usually is". Only the lack of some trading knowledge is between us and taking down Binance, yeah right.
15:56:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Tell that to gme
15:56:56 <k4r4b3y[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: This message needs to reach to a broader audience. Out of this chat room
15:57:21 <rbrunner> Yeah, and why don't we have a repeat of GME once every month?
15:57:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> because we dont talk to wsb peopke
15:57:43 <k4r4b3y[m]1> Normie cattle easily distracted would be my guess
15:57:53 <rbrunner> If your views conflict with reality, reality wins.
15:58:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> And have an aura that trading is taboo or something 
15:58:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wbs is all abiut NGU to crush shorts 
15:58:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xmr is like "eww"
15:58:18 <ceetee[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> exactly. Just like with gme. 
15:58:18 <ceetee[m]> > 
15:58:18 <ceetee[m]> > problem os. Xmr is xmr. They have to hand it over eventually. And they cant sell xmr they dont have 
15:58:18 <ceetee[m]> how long is "eventually"? I think they can easily sit it out for 2 weeks, maybe 4, without looking like they are insolvent. That's plenty of time for markets to cool down
15:59:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gme went on for months before the bankers couldnt squirm anymore
15:59:05 <k4r4b3y[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: We do have that. Another taboo we have is, "Don't buy Monero." or, "Monero is not an investment." Both of which are outrageously stupid. Causes us to shoot ourselves on our foot.
15:59:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Example
15:59:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gme trading was disabled on ibkr 
15:59:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Options positions rules were chsnges to sell only and shit 
16:01:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Do i want people trading xmr? Not any longer than it takes binance etc to learn their lesson financially 
16:01:37 <ceetee[m]> k4r4b3y[m]1: Its a balance. XMRs value proposition comes from the fact that is is used as a currency. This hard backlash against moonbois gives it some legitimacy to new users imho
16:02:40 <k4r4b3y[m]1> ceetee[m]: A currency can also be hoarded. Monero is also a store of value. We shouldn't shy away from that proposition. Shows others a weakness of ours.
16:03:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> The trick though, is if moonbois get xmr - theyll hold the first usabke crypto or stock theyve ever had
16:03:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> And might just fackin use it! 
16:03:22 <k4r4b3y[m]1> Doesn't matter if this proposition is truthful or not. What matters is saying "monero is not a storr of value" is an admission of weakness.
16:03:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> becsuse there is no reason to sell xmr 
16:04:17 <k4r4b3y[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: Yes. People should hoard Monero and use it for products and services.
16:04:31 <ceetee[m]> If you want to face binance, you have to frame it as a fight against unjust banks - f them over and detach yourself from the banking sector in one go
16:05:22 <side-trips[m]> ceetee[m]: our current global situation is an excellent env for this tho, right?
16:05:42 <ceetee[m]> k4r4b3y[m]1: I like to recommend people a "f it" fund in XMR that can pay for food and shelter for a month or two
16:06:41 <ceetee[m]> people currently dont have the spare cash to gamble. Also plenty of people lost some GME and will be hesitant to try again
16:07:30 <ceetee[m]> In the end it was not those who set their sell at 5k, but those who sold to the newcomers at 300
16:07:42 <ceetee[m]> as usual only retails gets fcked
16:07:44 <k4r4b3y[m]1> I agree. But when people have the cash again, they should see XMR as a store of value, in addition to other functions of money as according to Aristotle.
16:08:48 <k4r4b3y[m]1> One thing I go apeshit everytime I hear certain btc'ers say is this: "monero is interesting from a medium of exchange perspective. But not from a store of value one."
16:09:19 <k4r4b3y[m]1> This motherfuckers think that a transparent ledger can store any value away from the violent coercion of govt mafie.
16:09:24 <k4r4b3y[m]1> Mafia*
16:10:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> ceetee[m]: Right, but in xmr its different - becauae its not JUST ngu
16:10:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its viral adoption
16:11:18 <ceetee[m]> k4r4b3y[m]1: their block reward is like piling more and more gold in a bank, while reducing the amounts of guards each time. Of cause it will implode eventually...
16:12:06 <ceetee[m]> for viral adoption there ate too few places where you can spend it yet
16:12:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> 6.25 btc per block lol
16:12:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Imagine if btc went to 1m
16:12:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> What the difficukty woukd have to be to justify paying out such money
16:12:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> ceetee[m]: Not with a wsb-like run
16:13:22 <ceetee[m]> speculative
16:13:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gme only has one marketing angle
16:13:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Buy because fk wallstreet "
16:14:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats jist a trojan horse for xmrs real qualities for retail investors 
16:15:15 <ceetee[m]> crypto in general is dismissed by the general population because there sooooo many scams
16:15:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Exactttlyyy
16:15:43 <ceetee[m]> I dont think we could reach critical mass without the normie's who only see the scams
16:15:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Viral xmr is like "i slipped, fell, and landed on the only non-scam?"
16:16:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Perople accept doge and shiba becuse of viral nonsense 
16:16:34 <side-trips[m]> I have nightmares of finding out cake wallet is a scam
16:16:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes. Cake wallet is really a vampire
16:17:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or does magical things 
16:17:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not sure how the monero code can be a scam 
16:17:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or do you mean some feature of cake? 
16:18:26 <r4v3r23[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: you mean the default connection to their servers?
16:18:47 <side-trips[m]> nightmares are hard to describe but yall are making me think I'm about to have alot more of em
16:18:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> r4v3r23[m]: He said scam
16:19:33 <r4v3r23[m]> garbage either way
16:19:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stack, feather, monerujo, all make default connections 
16:20:20 <r4v3r23[m]> you know what im talking about
16:20:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> And up until a year ago, all wallets made default connections 
16:20:26 <r4v3r23[m]> dont down play it
16:20:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cakes default connection are to their node and the fiat api btw
16:20:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Playbwhay down? Feather does the same
16:21:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Except to 8 nodes and then third party services
16:21:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stack does the same, to their own node
16:22:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> And technically local nodes for gui even make defaut connections to seed nodes and dns
16:22:21 <side-trips[m]> I been lurking this chat like 2 weeks tops, and i'm pretty sure ofrn is satoshi
16:22:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not sure how im downpkaying it, when im the one who opened the issue
16:23:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> im not dr craig wright 😂
16:23:26 <r4v3r23[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: then you know its not making the same connections as monerujo
16:23:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: and caused a storm about it when they didnt allow users to disable it
16:23:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerujo doesnt show fiat values 
16:24:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> ?
16:24:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Feather 
16:24:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Default
16:24:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stack
16:24:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> default
16:24:34 <r4v3r23[m]> k
16:25:25 <r4v3r23[m]> care to show me where feather shares metadata with their central server, even when using own node?
16:26:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you run in default mlde, feather makes a bunch of externsk connections to third party servifes
16:26:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cake offers an onion for the fiat api - i cant say the same for any other fiat api
16:26:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Everyone else is pulling from kraken or coingecko 
16:26:43 <r4v3r23[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: cetnral server, please
16:27:00 <r4v3r23[m]> s/cetnral/central/
16:27:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Coingecko and kraken arent central servers?
16:27:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or are you asking "does tobtoht run a fiat api"
16:27:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> And the answer is, no, he doesnt 
16:28:03 <r4v3r23[m]> are they FEATHERS central servers?
16:28:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> he relies on someone elses 
16:28:22 <r4v3r23[m]> so no
16:28:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> So if feather feather uses cakes fiat api, then what?
16:29:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/feather//
16:29:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> all of a sudden its not central?
16:29:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Do you know what an oracle is?
16:29:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> a price oracle*
16:30:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> If youre using a fiat api, you are relying on a price oracle to feed you good data from somewhere
16:30:31 <r4v3r23[m]> i know shady shit when i see it
16:30:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its nice to just plug in coingecko. But why would you trust coingecko if their orices often diverge from exchsnges?
16:31:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> And coingecko has shitty proposaks to try to have prefered treatement on germonero.org
16:32:00 <r4v3r23[m]> 👍️
16:32:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its ok to feed them price data xmr/usd at xyz time, but using cakes onion is a nono
16:32:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> I run with fiat apis off anyway
16:32:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hence my issue and the reason stack allows you to disable it
16:34:09 <k4r4b3y[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: Is this a dogwhistle for chainlank talk?
16:34:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> No, its about price data all comes from somebodies central server 
16:35:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whether that be xauxag or usdxag or xagxmr
16:36:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> You either need multiple apis to reach all markets, or you need to create an oracle that tracks multiple markets 
16:37:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> on locakmonero, you can set a sell price as 
16:37:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> max(coingeckoxmrusd,krakenxmrusdbid) 
16:37:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why would anyone do this? Because prices arent the same everywhere. Coingecko telling you your balance might vary greatly from whatever is actually trading on a certain exchange
16:52:48 <ajs_[m]> monerokon meeting in 10 minutes in #monero-events:monero.social 
17:32:15 <riceandbeans> Is there a way to make loading the wallet faster?
17:32:23 <riceandbeans> It's been about an hour, wallet still isn't open
17:32:35 <riceandbeans> Height 2561684 / 2885102
17:32:47 <riceandbeans> To be fair, I haven't opened the wallet in probably a year
17:32:57 <riceandbeans> But monerod HAS been running the entire time
17:33:12 <riceandbeans> I just didn't use the wallet cli till just now
17:33:53 <nioc> wallet is open and you are waiting for it to sync 
17:34:30 <nioc> no idea how long syncing a year's worth of txs takes
17:34:40 <nioc> an hr sounds like a long time
17:34:51 <nioc> but then I use a super computer 
17:35:08 <nioc> not a pi
17:35:10 <riceandbeans> 25638 monero         31  52    0    73G  3173M uwait    1  17.5H   7.51% monerod
17:35:19 <riceandbeans> Damn, monerod must be leaking like crazy
17:37:19 <riceandbeans> Anyways, it's a 2 core SkyLake
17:40:40 <nioc> I had a 2 core without AES and it was slow  
17:40:58 <riceandbeans> oh yeah def no AES
17:42:44 <nioc> wallet sync was recently improved but I think only for txs after the date of the improvement 
17:42:45 <Wallet> nioc: ≈$0.0054 • ≈ value of: 1 SYNC • Source: cmc/ccc/altm
17:43:08 <nioc> ^^ look at me, imma rich  lol
17:43:43 <nioc> *only for blocks after
17:46:26 <riceandbeans> Ouch.
17:48:37 <nioc> just synced 7k blocks which took ~10 seconds 
17:49:12 <nioc> so on this modern comp a years worth of blocks should take a few minutes
18:37:10 <k4r4b3y[m]1> Impressive. Very nice.
18:37:13 <housemate> hello which is a good choice of remote to use?
18:37:44 <k4r4b3y[m]1> Just use feather wallet on desktop and monerujo on android.
18:38:28 <housemate> okay thanks.
19:26:05 <selsta> 19:32 <riceandbeans> But monerod HAS been running the entire time <-- monerod can't sync wallets on its own
19:28:33 <cockliuser[m]> <housemate> "hello which is a good choice..." <- remote node?
19:28:52 <cockliuser[m]> you can try using monero.fail to find one
19:34:08 <housemate> okay, thanks
23:12:19 <Save_G[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Snapshots" <- explain please 
23:36:47 <ShaneonConduitrs> I need a payment gate solution for monero that can be implemented in an online shop
23:37:06 <monerobull[m]> hello, are you using wordpress?
23:37:30 <ShaneonConduitrs> monerobull[m]: No idea what they are using
23:38:40 <ShaneonConduitrs> seems to be a custom website with comgate
23:38:58 <ShaneonConduitrs> https://www.comgate.cz/platebni-brana
23:41:20 <ShaneonConduitrs> well custom website made from some template
23:41:21 <ShaneonConduitrs> static pages
23:45:22 <ShaneonConduitrs> https://pay.binance.com/en maybe?
23:50:24 <monerobull[m]> trocador payment gateway?
23:53:52 <ShaneonConduitrs> hmmm dunno
23:54:51 <ShaneonConduitrs> They don't seem to like self-hosting
23:54:56 <ShaneonConduitrs> https://nowpayments.io/ ?
23:55:24 <ShaneonConduitrs> bcs they probably want to be paid in FIAT
23:59:02 <hate[m]> <ShaneonConduitrs> "I need a payment gate solution..." <- btcpayserver