01:12:05 <modul8[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "#monero-offtopic..." <- Oh man..you going to make me cwtch.im to another channel and disturb my reading flo?
01:15:54 <modul8[m]> <sgp[m]> "what do I need to do there" <- Hey sgp, Why does monero.social matrix send emails with the missed conversations by default when joining?
02:19:02 <escapethe3ra[m]> https://monero.observer/monero-observer-announcement-on-break/
02:24:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hiring?
02:25:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> (not me)
02:25:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> But someone to keep it going in your stead?
02:43:36 <r4v3r23[m]> <escapethe3ra[m]> "https://monero.observer/monero-..." <- thx for your service
02:43:45 <plowsof11> escapethe3ra[m]: thank you sir and get well soon 🫡 
02:51:22 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Rdo?
02:51:25 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Or al
02:52:18 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Oh sick leave
02:52:25 <Side-trips[m]> Damn, 650 days straight of doing the lord's work. Many thanks on setting the bar so high. You are what I aspire to become. I pray for nothing but peace on your time away
02:57:31 <nsaunders> how do I find out where the GUI wallet is storing the blockchain data?  I'm on Ubuntu 23.04 but don't see any hidden files.
02:57:44 <nsaunders> https://monero.stackexchange.com/q/13969/14165
03:02:36 <plowsof11> nsaunders you set a custom path for the blockchain , .bitmonero is just the default, data.mdb is the blockchain 
03:04:00 <nsaunders> I went and selected to not set a custom path because it was stalled.  Now it's about half way completed, but I see no .bitmonero file or directory, and data.mdb at that specified path hasn't increased in size.
03:05:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> It only increases every x blocks
03:05:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Preallocates some size iirc
03:05:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> And perhaps gui moves the blockchain when you change it? Not sure
03:06:01 <plowsof11> who told you to set a custom path because it was stalled 
03:06:35 <plowsof11> are you running the latest versions v0.18.2.2
03:07:09 <plowsof11> i dont think the gui moves it so it will just pick up from scratch 
03:08:32 <plowsof11> re-write your stack exchange question because it says "I went to the advanced section for the GUI and set the path for the node as:"
03:08:49 <nsaunders> will do
03:11:04 <nsaunders> done
03:12:14 <plowsof11> go to monero gui -> settings -> log 
03:12:55 <plowsof11> you can send commands ,, "status" for example, and you can even see the data-dir from the beginning 
03:13:47 <nsaunders> aha, thx
03:15:46 <nsaunders> I really like these commands.  it confirms that the blockchain is pruned.  Very nice to see.  
03:17:46 <plowsof11> prune_blockchain confirm yes? (btw i cant see date-dir here sorry)
03:17:54 <nsaunders> Height: 1285392/2901923 (44.3%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 83.90 MH/s, v4, 12(out)+19(in) connections, uptime 0d 5h 9m 52s                but I'm not seeing where the data-dir is
03:18:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> At the top of log
03:18:42 <nsaunders> check_blockchain_pruning    returns         Blockchain is pruned        excellent 
03:20:57 <nsaunders> I'm using head to look at the top of the log file, but nothing jumps out.  What would I grep for?
03:22:24 <plowsof11> the guis log doesnt show it hm
03:23:17 <plowsof11> #monero-gui:monero.social im just going to lay motionless for about 8 hours though
05:49:21 <nsaunders> how long should a wallet take to sync?  ballpark.
05:50:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> From what block..
05:54:44 <nsaunders> │Height: 1285392/2901923 (44.3%) 
05:56:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats what, gui?
05:57:02 <nsaunders> yes
05:57:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> node or wallet. Lol
05:57:27 <nsaunders> wallet.  pruned node to my understanding.
05:58:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> No
05:58:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> A node is not a wallet
05:59:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> A node is a node
05:59:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> a wallet is a wallet
05:59:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> If youre using gui, there shoukd be 2 sync bars 
05:59:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> One for node, one for wallet
06:00:05 <nsaunders> yes.  two bars.
06:00:27 <nsaunders> the top one is zero percent complete.  It just reads "waiting for daemon to sync"
06:01:00 <nsaunders> the bottom bar reads "daemon blocks remaining" 1584409
06:02:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> The wallet is not syncinh
06:02:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> The daemon is
06:02:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is the number changing
06:03:22 <nsaunders> Very slowly.  I'm hoping to speed it up.
06:03:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hdd or ssd
06:03:49 <nsaunders> 1584410 now.  On a SSD.
06:04:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> nsaunders: Thats backwards.
06:04:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> The number is supposed to go down
06:04:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> in gui log
06:04:50 <nsaunders> yeh...don't know what to say.  One sec.
06:05:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> What us status
06:05:47 <nsaunders> Height: 1317596/2902008 (45.4%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 72.81 MH/s, v5, 12(out)+18(in) connections, uptime 0d 7h 57m 45s
06:05:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should.. restart pc, open gui
06:06:14 <nsaunders> reboot the whole computer!?  Okay, but why?
06:06:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wait
06:06:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> <nsaunders> "│Height: 1285392/2901923 (44.3%)..." <- Did u lie here
06:06:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is this old
06:06:58 <nsaunders> that's old.  Now it's 45.4 as of a few seconds ago.
06:07:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> <nsaunders> "the bottom bar reads "daemon..." <- Whats this now
06:08:28 <nsaunders> 1584414 on the GUI.  My interpretation is that new blocks are coming in quicker than I'm processing them.
06:08:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> No
06:09:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Open system monitor
06:09:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Search for monero
06:09:29 <nsaunders> I'm on Linux.  do you mean to run ps?
06:09:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> How many monerod are running
06:09:41 <nsaunders> ahhhh.  might be a few.
06:09:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> nsaunders: Youre on ubuntu desktop 2304?
06:10:35 <nsaunders> 11001 ?        01:46:19 monerod           49579 pts/1    00:07:10 monero-wallet-g                   yes, on Ubuntu 23.04 just installed yesterday.  SSD.
06:11:13 <nsaunders> I ran ps -ae | grep monero for the above results.  Is the daemon not running correctly?
06:11:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Looks good
06:11:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cpu?
06:12:08 <nsaunders> one sec
06:12:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gui looks confused though
06:13:02 <nsaunders> 96 percent idle CPU.  the top processes are monero and monero GUI per "top" command.
06:13:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id just restart and relauch gui 
06:13:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> And then dont play with anythint
06:13:20 <nsaunders> thanks.
06:13:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Restart computer
06:13:35 <nsaunders> bye
06:13:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> * Restart computer*
06:15:46 <nsaunders> wallet says "starting local node 10 9 8.."
06:17:10 <nsaunders> https://pastebin.com/rQcKDBzV                head of log from the GUI
06:17:52 <nsaunders> Height: 1317596/2902012 (45.4%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 72.81 MH/s, v5, 12(out)+0(in) connections, uptime 0d 0h 1m 54s
06:20:14 <hughgrant[m]> does anyone use a decentralized exchange to acquire monero, any recommendations?
06:23:44 <nsaunders> some log queries https://pastebin.com/DVZegrzZ       but, yes, the GUI does seem confused in some regard.  Stalled, with slow to no progress.
06:25:09 <nsaunders> Height means how far along has been scanned?  Because that number changes so slowly from the "status" command that it may never complete.
06:25:40 <hughgrant[m]> height is the blocknumber
06:26:09 <hughgrant[m]> so roughly yes it shows the amount of blocks it has downloaded and processed
06:28:52 <nsaunders> I'm considering removing the GUI entirely.  Would that remove the node and blockchain?
06:29:49 <hughgrant[m]> its quite normal for the initial download to take a long time, at least for bitcoin
06:30:06 <MajesticBank> initial sync takes up to 3 days 
06:30:23 <hughgrant[m]> its restricted somewhat by the cpu/block algorithm and whether there are any fast peers who wont mind sending so much data to you
06:30:28 <MajesticBank> blocks are downloaded quick but processing them is a bit slower
06:31:12 <MajesticBank> on ssd should be pretty fast and faster over time
06:31:27 <MajesticBank> once you sync you are lit
06:31:32 <hughgrant[m]> how large is the current monero blockchain
06:32:25 <nsaunders> Height: 1318456/2902020 (45.4%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 73.08 MH/s, v5, 12(out)+0(in) connections, uptime 0d 0h 2m 48s
06:32:56 <MajesticBank> your status is normal
06:33:03 <nsaunders> okay.  Thanks.
06:33:09 <MajesticBank> just need to wait it out
06:33:37 <nsaunders> Good and bad news :)     More good.  Now I know what action to take:  waiting ;)
06:34:20 <MajesticBank> I think blockchain size somewhere below 160 GB
06:34:27 <hughgrant[m]> apparently its around 160GB in size the blockchain, thats a big download
06:34:39 <MajesticBank> yeah 157 GB
06:35:01 <hughgrant[m]> bitcoin is around 450GB
06:35:43 <MajesticBank> monero blockchain holds more data due to privacy nature
06:35:43 <hughgrant[m]> transaction size of monero is likely significantly larger on average i guess, but big size means its being used at least
06:36:12 <MajesticBank> however amounts of money saved on monero fees
06:36:35 <hughgrant[m]> i didnt realize so few centralized exchanges accept monero any more, government pressure on them i guess
06:37:13 <MajesticBank> monero is better tech then bitcoin atm, storage prices are going down every year
06:37:22 <hughgrant[m]> are you a dev?
06:38:24 <MajesticBank> I just love monero 
06:38:28 <hughgrant[m]> i wonder why more cryptos dont support a pruning/state model, verified by some dev signature, where all the useless junk is thrown out making the initial download smaller and current transaction database more efficient
06:39:04 <hughgrant[m]> i havent wrapped my head around cryptonote yet to know if that is possible with monero
06:39:42 <MajesticBank> yes, you can prune your node with monero
06:42:53 <hughgrant[m]> well pruned nodes arent "Full nodes" in monero it seems, there is a way to prune and be a full node
06:43:18 <hughgrant[m]> but it depends on the blockchain tech itself, might not be possible with monero and requires a "state" to be signed by someone
06:47:12 <MajesticBank> i would really like to learn how prune node can be same as full node
06:47:36 <MajesticBank> why would anyone run full node then ? regardless of crypto
06:48:41 <MajesticBank> full node = verify from genesis block
06:50:15 <hughgrant[m]> well, ill consider it in terms of bitcoin rather than monero
06:50:58 <hughgrant[m]> once someone has sent a transaction, the source transactions are no longer needed for the node to operate
06:51:17 <hughgrant[m]> as they have been "spent", yet all the spent transactions are sent to nodes initially downloading
06:51:34 <hughgrant[m]> so instead you save a "state" of the live transactions, send that to clients
06:52:10 <hughgrant[m]> makes the initial download much smaller and faster to process
06:53:01 <jeffro256[m]> That isn't a "full node", another node cannot bootstrap from that node's data and verify the chain trustlessly 
06:53:01 <hughgrant[m]> and so that it is verified you simply get the devs to sign a hash of that initial download, or the hash of the history of the chain
06:53:55 <hughgrant[m]> well some people dislike the idea of someone centralized authorizing the "state" of these blockchains
06:54:22 <hughgrant[m]> but these same people then download clients from these same centralized places so to me it isnt that big a deal
06:55:31 <hughgrant[m]> if the dev signed some weird chain as the valid one, everyone would notice and complain. The bitcoin code records the "valid" chains once they have enough height on them
06:56:01 <hughgrant[m]> so that reversing the blockchain cannot exceed the point in those particular hard coded points
07:00:12 <MajesticBank> this is serious, 10 years running crypto project, things like that are not the way we do things around
07:04:51 <jeffro256[m]> Well we do checkpointing, which is similar in that it is an optimization at the cost of being "centralized" in that is has to be hardcoded by a dev, but it's optional and doesn't trigger your node to prune data. It also isn't a live system, which it sounds like the thing you're referencing is 
07:04:58 <hughgrant[m]> MajesticBank well I think in practice you would have it so its configurable, the node can still keep all spent transactions if it wanted
07:05:29 <hughgrant[m]> and then given the "checkpoint" and a trusted sig, it could create the optimized initial download for any client too
07:06:23 <hughgrant[m]> just personally i dont think there is much value in holding spent transactions "forever", maybe a year or two, but in the end who does it help? The analysis teams, but of course they could run their own nodes and keep every transaction anyhow
07:06:37 <jeffro256[m]> > just personally i dont think there is much value in holding spent transactions "forever",
07:07:15 <jeffro256[m]> Monero has good privacy guarantees which entail that transaction (with rare exceptions) cannot be determined to have been spent 
07:07:41 <jeffro256[m]> In other words, it's basically impossible to keep a running UTXO set in Monero
07:07:52 <jeffro256[m]> In its current form
07:08:12 <hughgrant[m]> yeah, obviously there is no privacy added by pruning spent transactions, as bad actors are already recording every transaction anyhow
07:08:23 <hughgrant[m]> it just helps keep the network healthy i think
07:08:59 <MajesticBank> There are plenty of alternatives as with remote node over tor and monero-lws open-source version is in progress, so you don't need to sync if you don't have 157 GB of space
07:09:38 <hughgrant[m]> nah its not about that aspect, the "full verification nodes" are 100% necessary to a healthy network , its more about making their lives easier
07:11:10 <hughgrant[m]> any effort spent bringing "other nodes" from 0 to current doesn't guarantee that the node will stick around long, its also much harder to send each node 480GB vs 48GB (bitcoin off my hand comparison)
07:12:32 <hughgrant[m]> its obvious a rather simple attack vector for even untrained actors to pull off using cloud networking services
07:13:49 <jeffro256[m]> Even if a node used this sped up technique of pruning unused information which signed by a dev this still wouldn't be a "full verification node" because other nodes which don't use this shortcut can't bootstrap from this node 
07:14:50 <jeffro256[m]> Kinda by definition, if you drop information, your peers can't use that information to verify from the beginning 
07:15:19 <hughgrant[m]> well i think few people care that much about having every transaction ever recorded, so it should be more upto those people that want it to maintain the full transaction history. The main node just has the last year/2/whatever, and people who want to keep the full history (or even the project itself) just offer the downloads for it
07:15:38 <hughgrant[m]> that way you can bootstrap with full tx history, for the few who want it
07:15:59 <hughgrant[m]> again im not saying this is what monero should do, just my opinion in general, im not sure if its possible within monero
07:17:38 <hughgrant[m]> by "possible" i mean if its worth it to do so, in bitcoin there would be a drastic reduction
07:50:23 <ceetee[m]> <hughgrant[m]> "i wonder why more cryptos dont..." <- Pruning is possible in Monero, it keeps all essential data + 1/8 of the optional data.
07:50:23 <ceetee[m]> You can't fully prune old and spend transactions because they are used as inputs for the ring signatures
07:51:20 <ceetee[m]> Total data stored in a pruned node is about 1/3 of a full one
08:01:41 <DanIsnotthemanBr> anonymity say wut
08:21:32 <modul8[m]> <hughgrant[m]> "does anyone use a decentralized..." <- Haveno is not live yet...but give it a test. It is a fork of bisq...  https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno you can get stagenet monero from the rino community page
08:23:43 <modul8[m]> Or well..you cab try bisq too i suppose..there is basicswap but you need to download a few chains and i havent had a chance to check it out yet
09:50:58 <gammapleb[m]> Can anyone direct me to a rundown on  Seraphis upgrade? In particular the seed words being reduced to 16? Ta
09:53:55 <kayabanerve[m]> gammapleb: I believe you're referring to Polyseed
09:54:22 <kayabanerve[m]> https://github.com/tevador/polyseed
09:58:50 <gammapleb[m]> kayabanerve[m]: That's perfect, many thanks. So as I read it, Monero will shift to using BIP39 wordlist, same as btc? 
09:59:21 <gammapleb[m]> It mentions a "few minor changes". Is there a way to see what changes or is this way too early?
10:04:33 <kayabanerve[m]> Not the same. Minor changes means changes.
10:04:47 <kayabanerve[m]> You can run a diff on the files.
13:23:10 <nsaunders> only about 3GB downloaded overnight https://pastebin.com/eFaz765Q       this is just how it goes with initial scanning?
13:27:05 <plowsof11> this FAQ answer hints at it https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/faq/#anchor-long-sync
13:28:08 <plowsof11> simply downloading is not all thats happening, cyrptomagic to verify the data which is expensive is happening too (spinning disk hard drive will be painfully slow)
13:28:20 <nsaunders> at say three percent per day this will take a month.
13:28:43 <nsaunders> plowsof11: okay..
13:28:57 <Rucknium[m]> nsaunders: Usually, no. It's much faster. If you are using a HDD or external drive instead of a SSD that could cause it. Or your internet service provider is throttling your bandwidth.
13:29:36 <plowsof11> its not consistent either, 1 month IF the blocks remain the same size as they did when the blockchain was 40% of its size today.. so it will definitely be longer than 1 month
13:30:23 <nsaunders> Received 12998003500 bytes (12.11 GB) in 5885698 packets in 7.0 hours, average 503.03 kB/s = 6.14% of the limit of 8.00 MB/s            print_net_stats result
13:31:36 <nsaunders> average download is 500 kB/s over the last seven hours?
13:33:36 <Rucknium[m]> nsaunders: If you are using a HDD, your bottleneck is random read speeds on storage, not bandwidth. It looks like you have plenty of connections to peers.
13:34:23 <nsaunders> Rucknium[m]: thanks.  okay...
13:35:58 <nsaunders> I'm using a SSD.  Might it be worth upgrading with my ISP to get this done?
13:45:41 <plowsof11> connected via usb? unless you are using some anonymity network to sync the above comment from rucknium stands, its your hardware setup 
13:47:08 <plowsof11> i would just use a remote node (featherwallet.org makes this process a breeze and has tor built in) 
13:51:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nsaunders
13:51:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pastebin output of sync_info
13:52:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> <plowsof11> "connected via usb? unless you..." <- Anon sync fast as any
13:52:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Under 12hrs
13:57:22 <plowsof11> a termux android node up and running in under 12 hours? https://github.com/nahuhh/android-termux-monero-node
14:00:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> more like 30 😝
14:00:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> But not due to download speeds
14:01:59 <nsaunders> I'll try featherwallet
14:02:15 <nsaunders> and look into termux. 
14:02:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> termux is for android
14:04:18 <nsaunders> oh, that might be best.  Sounds dead easy.  I'll try that too.  Termux.
14:06:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Perfect
14:07:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dm me if you need anything
14:08:02 <nsaunders> ofrnxmr[m]: thanks.  too sleepy to do anything at the moment, was just checking the overnight.  I hope to get featherwallet going tonight.
14:08:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/nahuhh/android-termux-monero-node/releases/tag/master-beta
14:08:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> this is the version you want to use
14:08:29 <nsaunders> k
14:08:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> the Instructions*
14:09:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Feather is easy to use. Will get you up and running in minutes
19:05:49 <nsaunders> I'm using this feather wallet.  How can I see how far it has synced?  Is it pruning by default for a recovered wallet?
19:06:29 <k4r4b3y[m]1> nsaunders: It should show the blocks remaining on the bottom of the window
19:06:29 <nsaunders> 628742 blocks remaining (D: 2538.6 MB)
19:06:54 <k4r4b3y[m]1> You can come ask more on #feather:monero.social
19:07:51 <nsaunders> is that IRC?  not libera network?
19:08:13 <nsaunders> I'll find it.  thx
19:08:42 <k4r4b3y[m]1> Oh sorry I thought you were on matrix
19:08:43 <k4r4b3y[m]1> It is a matrix room, I do not know if it is bridged to irc.
19:18:19 <rottenwheel> nsaunders I think it's #feather on OFTC. Note it's not on libera, it's on OFTC. 
19:24:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> <nsaunders> "I'm using this feather wallet..." <- again again. A wallet is not a node
19:24:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Theres no such thing as a pruned wallet
19:27:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> <nsaunders> "628742 blocks remaining (D: 2538..." <- This is how much morr your wallet has to sync.
19:27:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> please note: Your `RESTORE HEIGHT` is any block heigh lt or date _before_ the first transaction in your wallet
19:30:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dont restore from too much further back than necessary
19:34:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> sgp: 
19:34:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Before waweb times out again can you banban
19:35:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Been spaming every room for days or longer now
19:35:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> (their irc client has been spamming reconnects)
19:47:00 * monerobull[m] uploaded an image: (36KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/TYjYGSJfYaNuJYWKOpDBbCIr/grafik.png >
20:00:58 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Restore to BC
20:09:37 <lza_menace> https://wawebworks.com/
20:10:09 <lza_menace> ofrnxmr[m] you see that in their source host?
20:13:58 <plowsof11> i cant see a user called @waweb 🤔
20:17:40 * DanIsnotthemanBr uploaded an image: (69KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/QNIdZhcMCZBvGssOcbKHyWmC/ima_4e0c13e.jpeg >
20:30:36 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (11KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/AezbQqrQiiLGlNjhmRtSqKws/jgki6ijtwfag76as.jpg >
20:31:16 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Lol
20:31:21 <DanIsnotthemanBr> ^
20:31:21 <waweb> oh sorry i had no idea
20:31:28 <waweb> lemme fix it
20:31:51 <DanIsnotthemanBr> In and out like a yoyo
20:43:35 <plowsof11> if it cant be fixed then i kindly ask waweb to stay joined to all rooms long enough so that banhammer can kick/ban you without complaining that you dont exist in each room 🙏