01:37:26 hello, im pretty new to crypto and would like to ask for some advice. I heared about hardware/ offline wallets and want to know which ones are recommended (foss if possible). Id also like to know where to buy and sell monero, what software to use and what to look out for. I am additionally still looking for communitys and resources in this topic 01:37:27 where I can learn more. Thank you for any help provided <3 03:21:45 Franz3, you've checked out getmonero.org ? 03:22:38 not yet, thank you 03:31:34 localmonero for p2p "marketplace" buying/selling 03:31:34 and hw wallet = use paper wallet, but dont use the moneroaddress.org link in the guide for creating a paper wallet on getmonero. Use the github link 03:32:38 whats the story with moneroaddress.org ? 03:33:14 oh wow that redirect 03:54:21 is a paper walleta comon solution around here? 03:57:40 thank you for the hint regarding the direct github link, that helps ofrnxmr[m] 05:19:02 this feather wallet is syncing quite rapidly 05:20:17 I have a balance but no transaction history. 72674 blocks remaining. It can take time to see a transaction history? 05:51:37 https://twitter.com/AaronDBennett/status/1666297899490181126 05:51:51 If we respond with "Sure, you should feel right at home there." would that be too savage? 05:55:11 nope they called localmonero a dumpster fire. If you cant take shit dont give it. 06:37:01 What is the main reason behind lack of motivation re: XMR-BTC 06:37:03 swaps 06:37:11 Wasnt much volume? 06:37:35 Seems like a cool thing to me 06:40:30 If monero moved to using libp2p would be possible to connect to the monero p2p network through the browser itself as well 06:45:33 https://twitter.com/AtomicWallet/status/1665550651735023616 06:45:44 "Security investigation is ongoing. We report victim addresses to major exchanges & blockchain analytics to trace and block the stolen funds." ... Yes block those bitcoins 06:46:54 kittypity[xmpp]: I didn't know darkfail has nitter instance 07:07:54 👋 07:09:47 Got a question. I'm new to Monero and I'm trying to get it set up locally. I was given the option of either running the node locally or using a remote node. Did some searching and apparently using a public remote node is not advised. 07:09:47 Are there any cons to using a VPS to run a node instead of doing it locally? 07:10:01 I'd much rather have it set up elsewhere rather than locally. 07:10:23 a dodgy VPS may intercept traffic i guess 07:11:08 Couldn't my ISP do the same or is it just about my connection to the VPS? 07:11:12 so if youre trying to do anonymous stuff might not be the best route 07:11:45 Got it, so there's no getting around doing it locally if it's for anon 07:12:45 yeah, and through tor or a chain of VPNs 07:12:52 for your actual transactions 07:13:54 Makes sense 07:13:54 although might be best practice to keep monero always through a vpn so your ISP cant directly connect you to it. Running a node may make you suspicious all in itself 07:15:11 Yeah, I always got VPN on + kill switch 07:15:16 VPNs just shift the problem from one provider to the next 07:15:18 Had an IP leak before, learned that lesson the hard way 07:15:20 gotta choose your poison, not like you can verify 100% a VPN nologs, or that TOR isnt doing the same 07:15:20 Yeah, I getcha 07:15:26 If you want to prevent people from snooping traffic between your wallet and your node, then you need to full control your node 07:15:28 but yeah buy a few VPNs with crypto, so at least they only have your IP and not credit card 07:15:40 Oh yeah, got into that habit several years back 07:15:46 I use crypto whenever possible 07:15:53 Not a fan of adding my CC to everything nor my phone number 07:15:55 cos an IP Address itself isnt proof that a specific person did anything 07:16:13 for sure 07:16:45 there is a push to get everyone on VPNs so that the vpn companies log everything , rather than the millions of ISPs, its a way to get around the problem of data capturing 07:17:01 you have like what, 10 good VPN companies, vs millions of ISPs 07:17:21 Yeah and I also remember the days of the HMA controversy 07:18:03 tbf privacy advocates and groups have also become smarter since 07:18:39 yeah does monero randomize its data and ports so that it isnt easily detected except by running a node? 07:19:25 A suspect if its easily detected it is likely one of many flags you may be getting by certain agencies 07:20:05 there's not much to randomize between wallets and nodes 07:21:20 wasnt there some bill trying to be passed recently that could ban VPNs in the USA? 07:21:36 there is some work in progress to encrypt p2p traffic between nodes, but it's not done yet 07:22:36 doesnt necessarily need to be encryption , could just be a node secret key generated when it connects, to defeat the simplest of detections (byte sequences) 07:23:32 yes, and the way you use that key is through encryption 07:23:44 but some kind of Diffie–Hellman key exchange would make it "perfect" for that, unable to easily be captured 07:24:02 yeah i mean technically XORing is encryption, so you are right 07:24:05 OTP 07:24:57 (XORing by itself isn't encryption though) 07:25:23 Encrypt the secret key exchange ,use a generated OTP for speed reasons 07:25:53 the main reason is to avoid byte sequence analysing not full blown secret sharing between nodes, unless there is a reason that is needed? 07:26:47 the goal is to make traffic indistinguishable from random noise 07:27:04 https://github.com/vtnerd/monero/blob/docs_p2p_e2e/docs/LEVIN_PROTOCOL.md 07:27:08 well you would get that with a decent size OTP generated through key exchange 07:27:20 and no speed loss in p2p communication 07:32:34 because if you imagine a block transfer, with 160GB existing data for new clients, you dont really want your encryption algorithm to be slowing down nodes even more 07:36:59 But I think in the end all the agencies interested will be running their own monero (or whatever) nodes anyhow, getting full network data 07:37:08 * monerobull[m] uploaded an image: (121KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/NaVnoljocEWuUPeXBqhTZlXJ/grafik.png > 07:37:18 unavoidable with p2p 07:38:09 Damn, a lot of people shutting down recently, ipfs-search too 07:40:32 i was thinking of closing monero.house since its like 10€ a month but with reddits upcoming api changes it suddenly got a bunch of traffic :) 07:41:28 Monero has been tremendously helpful in finding out how governments will react to something they cant track 07:42:15 and it seems there is constant pressure on bitcoin with these united states agencies suing and trying to lock up everyone involved in anything 07:43:02 @monerobull what API changes is it doing exactly? 07:43:26 charging a ton of money 07:43:41 who uses reddit API, what type of people? 07:43:51 so mod tools will die, all third party apps too 07:43:54 its to stop 3rd party clients? 07:44:15 so something something privacy and money related 07:45:14 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/141dm11/should_rmonero_join_in_on_the_june_12th14th/ 07:45:41 The best future I see right now for anyone concerned with financial privacy is that bitcoin somehow remains "as is", that is retains its #1 status and can be brought/sold by average joe at McDonalds average type exchanges 07:46:16 then there is something which has a complete commerce/messaging/whatever aspect built into it, along with decentralized bitcoin in/out 07:46:32 with monero level privacy 07:47:25 so no more need for "silk road" type places, its all built into the one "killer crypto app", with full privacy 07:47:56 but without a "safe" Crypto to get in and out of it, like Bitcoin, it wont work 07:48:09 bitcoin isn't safe 07:48:49 right, but if you go into "monero" and out of "monero", which a lot of people do right now right, its much harder to track 07:49:18 because monero isnt getting pushed anywhere on major exchanges where all the millions of people are, due to govt pressure 07:49:46 never leaving monero is even harder to track 07:50:00 so you need a crypto that is thought of as "safe", for a new privacy orientated financial system to operate, until that other system is destroyed 07:50:28 yeah obviously, just saying there needs to be easier ways to get fiat in and out of privacy orientated financial systems 07:51:07 dont you wish you could just go to your corner store, and buy Monero/whatever with cash? 07:51:28 I wish I could just pay with Monero 07:51:57 and in most places, you can 07:51:59 yeah, but we operate in a world where 99% of NPCs dont care about privacy, so you have to backdoor your privacy system into use through clever methods 07:52:02 it's just a matter of adooption 07:52:42 > NPCs 07:52:42 See, I don't think treating people like lack any agency will help change their minds 07:53:10 does govt telling everyone Monero is "illegal" and only used by criminals help the cause? Do governments banning it help it? I think it hinders it 07:53:19 at least as it is now 07:53:38 fortunately, the world is bigger than the US 07:53:49 most of the Swift nations have "banned" it 07:54:08 restricting the use of monero on public exchanges 07:55:06 There needs to be an easy way to get fiat into any privacy orientated system, because wealth right now is mainly measured by nation fiat, not crypto. So while that exists there needs to be easier ins and outs, not harder ins and outs 07:57:00 So I think if Monero had very easy ways to get in and out of Bitcoin, combined with its own version of a decentralized marketplace and webspace, it could potentially become the most used crypto even if Bitcoin is worth way more, if that makes sense 07:58:04 man id so spend the 5 grand or what a XMR ATM costs 07:58:23 but the laws here require you to have a fucking banking license in order to operate those 07:58:27 imagine if governments werent so evil, i bet most of us here would be operating them 07:58:37 pushing the new financial freedom 07:59:02 ill just be a internet based xmr atm once haveno is done 07:59:09 but they love being able to create their currencies out of thin air, and ruling over us, so it will never happen 07:59:09 s/a/an/ 07:59:19 there needs to be a better transition thought up than what is out there right now 08:00:43 I am working on a crypto marketplace for products, services, jobs, exchanges: https://bitejo.com as well as fundraisers https://kuno.bitejo.com 08:00:43 100% KYC-free and outside of the state. Intended as an addition to local cash-in-hand gray markets (which already work for e.g. under-the-table work, apartment rentals without ID, access medicine without prescriptions). 08:00:43 More info here: https://agorism.blog/anarkio/survival-outside-the-state 08:01:19 @anarkio how do you get around them shutting down your domain and web server? 08:02:00 This is why I mention the "killer privacy financial app" has to have a decentralized marketplace, web and messaging system built in 08:02:11 these are the basics for vendor/consumer relations 08:02:29 No one has cared to shut it down or hack it since the launch in 2021. Personally I need KYC-free markets because I can't get government ID. 08:02:59 no one cares simply because it has no traction if it gets traction it will be shutdown since its centralized 08:03:08 It may be possible to fork Haveno or add a "products/services" tab to it, after it is launched. OpenBazaar is also being rebooted. 08:03:10 best case, worst case you go to jail for some made up reason 08:03:40 If cops make a random ID control in the streets, it would already be over for me. Sadly it is already "illegal to be alive". 08:04:03 that must stress you out to some extent 08:04:16 How you coping? 08:04:27 There is no alternative. 08:04:49 If anyone would shut down Bitejo, I would try to host it somewhere else, but I can barely afford food and rent. 08:05:01 Right now Bitlaunch.io seems fine. 08:06:00 Well way I see it, nearly all cryptos are running on a p2p network, including in these "killer app" features will be a necessity at some point due to censorship 08:06:27 the ideal situation is we have enough time to get a first mover advantage 08:07:31 https://twitter.com/openbazaar is rebooting and hopefully Haveno will launch this year (and it may be possible to fork it for products/services). 08:11:13 You could also look at Particl.io 08:13:36 yeah, i think the "killer crypto", would have this all built in, with high ease-of-use 08:14:12 so that way you only need one download to get started, no websites, no unnecessary centralization 08:17:24 That would just make your one app the single point of centralization 08:17:41 And it would be absolute hell to develop 08:18:01 Do one thing and do it well 08:18:04 thats right, one app for all you need 08:18:16 and you are also right that it would be hell to develop 08:19:16 but take away the development aspect of it, what the world needs is basically decentralized and secure "messaging/market/banking" 08:19:31 lmao 08:19:48 You can't "take away the development aspect of it" - if nobody can build it, then it will never exist 08:20:06 It will forever remain vaporware 08:20:17 well just for arguments sake you can take it away, in the end though all that is needed is possible, it isnt theoretical science 08:20:35 of course it's possible 08:20:41 but someone needs to put in the work 08:20:53 so the killer crypto will have all that ,do you disagree? 08:21:06 I'm not sure why you keep insisting on this "killer app" thing 08:21:19 its about ease of use mainly 08:21:22 in the first place 08:21:27 hughgrant[m]: Yes, strongly 08:21:38 do you want to install 50 different things, expose yourself to unneeded centralization to get something to work? 08:21:43 or is it all in the one killer app 08:21:57 "https://twitter.com/openbazaar..." <- Looking forward to OpenBazaar. It is still supporting XMR, right? 08:22:24 im not saying its going to be easy, or that anyone will do it, but that is what is needed 08:22:29 > install 50 different things, expose yourself to unneeded centralization 08:22:29 statement A does not imply statement B, nor is statement A truthful in the first place 08:22:44 hughgrant[m]: again, strong disagree about the necessity 08:23:00 well right now to do decentralized exchanging, can i do it through monero itself? or do i need to run another (pointless) p2p network? 08:23:10 the answer is latter, its unneeded 08:23:16 but feel free to prove me wrong by implementing it 08:23:26 monero already has a p2p network, why not use it 08:23:39 because Monero is not an exchange platform 08:23:53 and that is just the tip of the iceberg, exchanging in and out of monero is only one problem ,and its not that hard to solve 08:24:07 but there are atomic swaps, if you want 08:24:08 decentralized messaging and web interface is harder to achieve, in scale 08:24:31 luckily, messaging does not need a blockchain 08:25:13 no but it needs a crypto behind it, otherwise it will be abused 08:25:31 [citation needed] 08:25:58 if i dont need to "spend internet points" to send something, then i can just run a simple script, on 10000 AWS servers to kill the network 08:26:08 "grafik.png" <- ChatGPT-style monero report generator when? 08:26:08 Similar to what phind.com does to stackoverflow, we can have an AI that scans all the Monero community related pages and provides news and summaries for us. 08:26:45 but sure you could use some scaling system to allow free messages, if the network load is low 08:26:54 k4r4b3y[m]1: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> ChatGPT-style monero report generator when? 08:26:54 > 08:26:54 > Similar to what phind.com does to stackoverflow, we can have an AI that scans all the Monero community related pages and provides news and summaries for us. 08:26:54 uh 08:27:06 hughgrant[m]: so simple, yet nobody does it today with all the current messaging platforms 08:27:15 someone scraped r/monerosupport and trained a model for me but its trash 08:27:29 @endor if you imagine the killer crypto, it means it can be used by a billion people at once right? 08:27:48 so you cant just be letting easy network attacks slide, that is why a points system is needed, ie a currency 08:27:49 the training data was really messy. we should probably train a decent model on a handcreated dataset at some point 08:27:58 why do you keep insisting on this "killed" adjective? it's so weird 08:28:18 train it on 4chan 08:29:07 hughgrant[m]: I think you're just mashing ideas together without really grasping why things work a certain way 08:29:14 im talking about what could be the next "big thing" in crypto, the term "killer app" is often used to describe such a thing 08:29:32 I know what it means 08:29:52 will you need points to stop network attacks, because if it was free to send a monero transaction, you could bloat the blockchain to 200tb with no cost 08:29:57 making it virtually impossible to be a node 08:30:16 do you understand why crypto has transaction fees? 08:30:46 the reason why crypto has transaction fees is exactly the reason the web/messaging/market place of this killer app needs transaction fees 08:31:44 Yes, I know what transaction fees do, too 08:33:39 😐️ 08:34:27 "and in most places, you can" <- LOL. Absolutely nowhere. 08:35:01 I meant from a legal standpoint, not adoption 08:35:45 (at least going off of the current map here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cryptocurrency_by_country_or_territory ) 08:36:41 only shows btc. Fake monero user 08:37:37 Compile a Monero-only map and I'll be happy to share it 08:38:09 Until then, I'll just read what the article says and notice that it mostly talks about all cryptocurrencies in general, and not bitcoin specifically 08:38:10 i will travel the world and collect data 08:38:35 Afghanistan X mark.svg Illegal 08:38:35 In August 2022 Taliban banned trading in cryptocurrencies 08:39:35 Monero is "banned" in what, South Korea, Dubai, Australia, USA? 08:40:26 seems it isnt just monero but any privacy related "coins" 08:41:11 not banned in aus, just cant buy of exchange 08:41:18 s/of/off/ 08:41:40 yeah if the govt is pressuring exchanges to accept it, it is "something", what do you call that 08:41:49 i mean to not accept it 08:41:53 sudo ban 08:41:59 shadow ban 08:42:00 pseudo ban 08:42:06 a hint at what may be coming worse i guess 08:43:05 in my opinion, in the ideal world you have some crypto that is popular, accepted most places, not easily controlled (ie bitcoin), and then 100% decentralized currencies which can convert in and out 08:43:19 where you can do all you need in that one currency 08:43:31 and if you need fiat, you have ways to get in and out "easily" 08:44:45 "although might be best practice..." <- > <@hughgrant:matrix.org> although might be best practice to keep monero always through a vpn so your ISP cant directly connect you to it. Running a node may make you suspicious all in itself 08:44:45 we need i2p working with monero 08:45:10 i think it should all be built into the one thing 08:45:21 already does 08:45:25 whatever is necessarily for a global, completely free and uncontrollable currency 08:45:58 hughgrant[m]: if you truly believe that's the way to do it, go ahead and build it 08:46:13 the community will be more than happy with a working solution 08:46:31 well ive been thinking about all the parts of it for a long time, and of course the best solution is someone just releases it completely finished 08:46:49 that someone can be you! ;) 08:47:02 we have a lot of "fund me to finish" in the crypto space, due to complexity dont we 08:47:16 but satoshi didnt 08:47:21 the next thing shouldnt either 08:47:34 you can be the next satoshi 08:47:40 nobody is stopping you 08:47:44 but it is an order of magnitude more complex than bitcoin, so 08:48:39 Could be you too Endor00 08:48:54 I already have plenty on my plate 08:49:05 yeah? anything you can discuss publicly 08:49:36 plenty I've already discussed 08:49:44 (not right now,) 08:49:55 ok, im unaware of all that, excuse my ignorance 08:50:44 no worries 09:03:09 "so mod tools will die, all third..." <- > <@monerobull:matrix.org> so mod tools will die, all third party apps too 09:03:09 are teddit and libreddit included in these dying third parties? 09:03:49 k4r4b3y[m]1: i dont see how theyd operate without api access 09:05:40 i didnt realize reddit APIs were used so much 09:05:57 reddit must die 09:06:05 I don't know how they're implemented, but they could be just scraping webpages under the hood (in theory), kinda like newpipe does 09:06:08 long live lemmy 09:06:11 (for youtube) 09:06:14 reddit and things like it to me are like the antithesis of me 09:06:48 k4r4b3y one day maybe a crypto will include reddit in its killer app package :P 09:07:15 crypto should do one thing and do it good 09:07:36 leave the internet forums to other software (again, lemmy and federated solutions are good for that) 09:07:45 you need to do everything related to govt censorship to survive current environment imo 09:07:51 nope 09:07:58 have you heard about UNIX philosophy? 09:08:16 so you are against a crypto financial os ? 09:08:23 LMFAO 09:08:33 dream big baby 09:08:39 hughgrant[m]: > <@hughgrant:matrix.org> so you are against a crypto financial os ? 09:08:39 where are you pulling these out from? 09:08:45 why not make a crypto-only computer 09:09:03 no backdoors, x86-64 crypto computers all in one 09:09:08 AT&T UNIX archives: http://piped2bbch4xslbl2ckr6k62q56kon56ffowxaqzy42ai22a4sash3ad.onion/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0 09:09:13 this is my philosophy 09:09:18 crypto-only car 09:09:29 crypto-only shoes 09:09:40 your crypto should provide everything, car, house 09:09:41 :P 09:09:43 web3 shoes 09:09:52 @hughgrant:matrix.org check out dark.fi that might be more your alley 09:09:53 (not real) 09:10:21 * (not real) (NFT) (metaverse) 09:10:28 not everything needs a fucking token 09:10:28 smart contracts dont scale 09:10:41 replace car keys with NFTs, and carry with you a hardware wallet that has to sign a message with your private keys every time you give a driving input to your car 09:10:56 Not everything needs a token, there needs to be one token to rule them all 09:10:59 tx fee to low? sorry, you're not steering that wheel buddy 09:11:03 everything decentralized, on one token 09:11:10 better raise it or you'll miss your exit 09:11:14 Me or endor00 will provide it, ETA unknown 09:11:29 k, keep me posted 09:12:00 the next bitcoin shouldnt be about an exit, its about just dumping the next future on humanity, and watching the chaos unfold 09:12:07 we need rich elite programmers making this next thing 09:12:24 @hughgrant:matrix.org genuinely asking: have you heard about dark.fi ? 09:12:34 i just heard about it and am reading 09:12:46 I think it is more closer to what you are pining for 09:12:51 its first 2 sentences to me sound unscalable 09:12:57 lol 09:13:00 so it makes me laugh slightly, but i should give it more time 09:13:09 let it sit on the backburner 09:13:31 im dunning krugering it hard right now 09:14:22 everytime something happens in "ethereum" the gas price shoots up like its 1979 and Iran has beaten the USA 09:14:56 Ethereum cant scale to thousands, let alone the future financial saviour of the Earth 09:15:16 don't save those who don't want to be saved 09:15:54 unfortunately we need the sheep with us for something to be mass adopted, at least until the covid vaccines "work" :P 09:16:31 I just find it funny whenever people talk about "scaling", yet they never specify "of what", in what units of measurement, or which reference value 09:16:49 all of us here could deal with CLI xmr-btc swaps, 99.9% of humanity couldnt 09:16:56 mass adoption without proper preparation is a poison pill. You don't want to have an overnight adoption to billions if they are going to be KYC'ed and custodial'ed. 09:17:24 mass adoption that comes gradually, and with education for each new cohort of newcomers is more sticking. 09:17:34 karabey yes you are 100% right on that 09:17:48 hughgrant[m]: As someone who has been "here" a while, you have no idea how off the mark you are... 09:18:20 everyone now is trying to make the "next thing" in crypto so they can become the next millionaire "scammer" (in the public eyes) 09:18:44 hughgrant[m]: hughgrant: seraidex is an upcoming monero-supported DEX that will (probably) have good UI/UX 09:18:56 Good enough for normal people to be able to use it 09:18:56 hughgrant[m]: ...aren't you trying to make the "next thing" as well? 09:19:04 Noobs? 09:19:08 cockliuser: thanks for the info 09:19:23 do we have an ETA on it? 09:19:41 they have security audits and stuff going on rn 09:20:09 i personally support all crypto people working to improve the distribution of financial control, and wish all of them were millionaires already 09:20:43 yes, anyone that helps me outpace the government controls over my life is my fren. 09:21:32 i feel like the "financial control" is independent of every other thing that can make us "different" and "hate each other", humanity should all support a free and open currency and market 09:21:36 "(at least going off of the..." <- If you take that map as gospel, then maybe. But the map is wrong. Around here, buying and selling "crypto" is allowed, you just can't use it for anything. AKA. Speculation is legal. 09:22:33 in most established economies all crypto gains/losses need to be reported to your government agency 09:22:50 >Speculation is legal 09:22:55 yes here too 09:23:22 government does everything to command the perception of the masses that cryptocurrencies are not "currencies" but crypto "stocks" 09:23:37 THey are "unregistered securities" whatever that means 09:24:00 but what it partially means is you havent bribed your local politician to allow it 09:24:33 of course all of us are minnows compared to central banks who control government, so 09:24:47 TrasherDK[m]: Well, it's supposed to be an aggregation point for all that information... sadly, it's quite messy and complicated to find out more without digging into each country's laws specifically 09:24:53 you cant outbribe a politician if you are going against the central banks 09:25:03 unlimited vs limited 09:25:14 hughgrant[m]: some "cryptos" are unregistered securities tho (howie test) 09:25:21 Hell, I'm not even 100% sure of how everything is supposed to work in my own country 09:25:26 premined ones for example 09:25:31 hughgrant[m]: > <@hughgrant:matrix.org> you cant outbribe a politician if you are going against the central banks 09:25:31 so we play outside their rules, and invent our own money. 09:25:44 @cockliuser SEC pretty much has pulled everyone in recently with "unregisted securities" 09:25:49 you can't win against an opponent who is stronger than you in his own game. 09:25:55 did you see their binance claims? 09:26:07 hughgrant[m]: they won't be able to pull in decentralized ones 09:26:08 its like the USA SEC controls the world financial system (they do) 09:26:22 hughgrant[m]: Binance going down is a net positive for us anyway 09:26:37 SEC has judge goons on their side, you cannot beat them 09:26:50 @k4r4b3y is right 09:26:52 Binance has been openly doing shady shit for a long time, frankly I'm surprised they lasted this long 09:27:07 Ccp? 09:27:19 They've done nothing that has gone against their own terms from what I Know 09:27:26 so everyone had access to their terms I thought 09:27:35 They printed paper monero for years 09:27:44 I thought i heard they move alot of there crypto too monero recently 09:27:45 they have? 09:27:59 you have verifiable proof hopefully 09:28:14 April monerun 09:28:15 Thought i saw it in an article 09:28:36 "yeah yeah i saw it in a CNN article, its legit" 09:29:14 i would hope monero users would be a bit more savvy than the average npc 09:29:26 On fox 09:29:43 Oh fox, thats legit then 09:29:44 hughgrant[m]: Lmao so if in my ToS I say that I'm good with ponzi schemes, then everything is ok? 09:29:44 That's not how any of this works, and that's a good thing. 09:29:49 Lol 09:30:07 @endor00 thats right, if you say its a ponzi and people invest, no problem 09:30:15 yes problem 09:30:16 ToS can't break local laws. If they do, local laws apply 09:30:21 what problem 09:30:32 it's a ponzi 09:30:52 so in your mind you want governance over monero ? damn that sucks, i guess we disagree 09:31:09 objection your honor, reaching 09:31:24 don't put words into my mouth by deliberately misinterpreting what I say 09:31:31 If someone says their thing is a pyramid scheme, or related to one, and people invest, thats ok to me 09:31:43 I'm talking about Binance and their financial products, which has nothing to do with Monero or its governance 09:31:54 hughgrant[m]: Binance never said that publicly 09:31:56 its a risk, some pyramid scheme participants make bank, why stop them 09:32:06 hughgrant[m]: what's ok to you is your business, but financial laws exist for a reason 09:32:29 well i dont tie any government law to monero, or anything else, but you are free to 09:32:40 As far as I understand, printing paper monero and fractional reserve banking isn't in their terms 09:32:57 some consumer protection laws are good. which laws are adequate for that purpose is a separate matter 09:32:57 So yes, they also violated their "terms" 09:33:16 i believe in personal agency, if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is, but for savvy investors they can make bank on it 09:33:23 and many do right now on new cryptos 09:33:49 i dont think Endor00, or hughgrant, should be able to stop financial transactions 09:34:02 have I ever said that? no 09:34:13 so why do you think these people should be locked up? 09:34:18 you mentioned "law" 09:34:31 because the law still exists 09:34:34 ^ 09:34:44 sure the law exists, but do you agree that it should? 09:34:47 yes 09:34:59 theres a difference between knowing there is a current law, and thinking it is a just and right law 09:35:16 I believe that outlawing ponzi schemes is just and right 09:35:22 ok 09:35:34 so you want a level of control over monero then, so you can stop law breakers? 09:35:39 weird 09:36:03 are you implying that Monero as a whole is a ponzi scheme? 09:36:13 Because if not, then your statement is a nonsequitur 09:36:18 should you be able to stop law breakers who disagree with your views? that means your currency needs some level of control 09:36:34 its very simple 09:36:35 * DanIsnotthemanBr uploaded an image: (91KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/vdFdwOcOGZrfiSTzVfCEzhXv/ima_a677178.jpeg > 09:37:02 it seems you do agree with at least "some" restrictions on finance 09:37:22 so either you keep throwing around logical fallacies out of deliberate malice, or you should really educate yourself on some basic logic and logical fallacies, for your own good 09:37:40 should a government be able to regulate some financial activities? 09:37:44 yes 09:37:52 well its that simple 09:37:57