01:58:07 <ocb> hello. has anyone made actual tests for effectivness of tor configuration 'HiddenServicePoWDefensesEnabled' with monero remote nodes?
01:59:35 <ocb> this option has been added with tor alpha release 0.4.8.1
02:49:10 <luigi1112> beware of the luigi tentacle
03:55:41 <TrasherDK[m]> <Alex|LocalMonero> "Feather. Just. Works." <- I wouldn't know. Never considered trying it, as I've got a well functioning GUI wallet already 😎
03:56:46 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Must of forked it
04:20:58 <TrasherDK[m]> <Alex|LocalMonero> "This way everybody's happy, no?" <- No. The Monero website should not push (shill) 3rd. party software. Do that on your own site.
04:33:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/commit/74660c56284f2542519897b4cb43c3c348761306
04:33:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> TrasherDK:  bet youll love this wording change 
04:42:10 <TrasherDK[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "TrasherDK:  bet youll love..." <- Yes. Looks good to me 👍️
04:49:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> How about this one 
04:49:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2143
04:49:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> TrasherDK: 
04:56:25 <TrasherDK[m]> Personally, I wouldn't touch that thing, even if paid to do so. Just looking a dependencies gives me shivers. Who's going to do the security review? Stuff of nightmares.
05:41:24 <RavFX[m]> Oh, a nodejs wallet...
05:41:24 <RavFX[m]> Same for me, no touchy even with a 144km long stick
05:41:24 <RavFX[m]> Risk of supply chain attack is just to big
05:42:35 <RavFX[m]> And they seam to have an integrated swapper (a scammy one, changelly)
05:46:45 <TrasherDK[m]> How is changelly still a thing ???
05:49:45 <RavFX[m]> Really, no idea
05:49:45 <RavFX[m]> Last Coin Wallet commit read "move changelly to api v2"
05:54:39 <RavFX[m]> Well, at least it's opensource (with mean nothing much really)
05:54:39 <RavFX[m]> So it "might" be better than Atomic or Exodus (If you really really really want a wallet that support many coins)
05:56:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> <TrasherDK[m]> "Personally, I wouldn't touch..." <- the first link opens the doorfor this trash
05:57:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> And says "not our fault"
05:57:01 <RavFX[m]> Erk, the Linux version is "Snap Store" 🤮
05:57:01 <RavFX[m]> At least it prevent me from even trying it lol
05:58:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> The last thing we need is users coming here for support with wallets that NOBODY recommends
05:59:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kb1 "use a recommended wallet. Recommendations can be found after losing coins to atomic. PERSONALLY i recommend bla wallet. If you use the list from getmonero ymmv.  I wouldnt touch half of them with my worst enemies hands"
06:04:52 <DanIsnotthemanBr> snap is......... (fill in the rest)
06:08:19 <DanIsnotthemanBr> where did i see someone asking about tor pow
06:11:20 <TrasherDK[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "And says "not our fault"" <- I would expect anything added to the list, to be seriously reviewed. If that's not the case, nothing should be added.
06:14:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well the arguement for the wording change is "do we trust reviewers?"
06:14:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not mine, mind you
06:14:36 <TrasherDK[m]> I haven't seen the current list of wallets, for a while, as I'm not looking to change from the GUI thingy. Maybe I should.
06:14:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> I thinknwe should remove anything that isnt foss and recommendable, not privacy harming etc
06:15:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> right now its just 
06:15:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> feather gui
06:15:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> cake mymonero edge
06:15:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> The wording change allows us to list coinwallet and say "dyor"
06:15:43 <TrasherDK[m]> Depends on who the reviewer is. And yes, no closed source, no privacy compromise.
06:16:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wordong change also specifically makes an exception for mymonero LoL
06:18:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im fine with mymonero, when it can be used with lws without leaking to mymonero
06:18:57 <TrasherDK[m]> If you clone the mymonero packages, enable dependabot - get chocked by the amount of vulnerable dependencies they build on.
06:19:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lolol
06:20:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mymonero can do no wrong. blasphemy
06:20:43 <DanIsnotthemanBr> rude
06:21:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Need to protect them at all costs, even integrity 
06:21:15 <DanIsnotthemanBr> bleed for them
06:21:19 <DanIsnotthemanBr> kill for them
06:21:28 <DanIsnotthemanBr> mia for 3 months
06:22:16 <TrasherDK[m]> I got scolded for commenting of a issue, while not using the wallet myself. I didn't tell why I don't use it. So I was nice.
06:53:32 <modul8[m]> <TrasherDK[m]> "No. The Monero website should..." <- yeah i sort have to agree with that. 
09:10:34 <k4r4b3y[m]1> +1 for polyseed getting into the core. 16 words + embedded wallet birthdate ftw.
10:12:12 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://www.getmonero.org/2023/06/08/10block-old-decoy-selection-bug.html
14:32:39 <plowsof11> rino.io raffle draw is tomorrow https://twitter.com/RINOwallet/status/1664072854818762766 
15:39:42 <RavFX[m]> Careful while creating accounts on rino
15:39:43 <RavFX[m]> it don't seam to like password too long 😂
15:39:43 <RavFX[m]> Have to create another email lol
15:42:32 <Alex|LocalMonero> <TrasherDK[m]> "No. The Monero website should..." <- My point is that Feather shouldn't be 3rd party, it should become adopted as an official wallet. I get ofrnxmr 's points about the non-standard implementations. Some of them need to be standardized, others removed, but overall it seems like less work to make Feather standard than to make the official GUI work properly.
15:43:41 <Alex|LocalMonero> Think of Valve's approach to their games. They release a base version (CS, TF2) and then the modding community comes up with better ideas that make it fun, and then Valve adopts them and makes it official.
15:43:56 <RavFX[m]> I do like the Monero GUI wallet. It look good.
15:43:56 <RavFX[m]> But yeah, I just use Feather, just more feature complete and more usable imo (I don't have to restart the wallet if I disconnect and reconnect ledger)
15:52:53 <TrasherDK[m]> <Alex|LocalMonero> "My point is that Feather shouldn..." <- But, it is, 3rd party. It's not a reference implementation, done by the Monero project, and it's not even contributing tweaks, fixing stuff. I see no reason, why that thing should be shilled. I don't want to get into a discussion, about this. I have stated my opinion, and I'm not likely to change my stance.
15:53:06 <Alex|LocalMonero> ok
15:53:19 <TrasherDK[m]> BTW. Valve. WTF.
15:55:38 <TrasherDK[m]> Also. Sorry about the rough edges 😆
16:06:50 <toralien[m]> <RavFX[m]> "I do like the Monero GUI wallet...." <- > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> I do like the Monero GUI wallet. It look good.
16:06:50 <toralien[m]> > But yeah, I just use Feather, just more feature complete and more usable imo (I don't have to restart the wallet if I disconnect and reconnect ledger)
16:06:51 <toralien[m]> so what should a monero wallet optimally be 
16:06:51 <toralien[m]> Monero GUI API + (Local or Remote) Node configuration API + monerod
16:09:11 <RavFX[m]> Well, for a thing, make it so if you disconnect hardware wallet, you can replug it and tell the GUI to reconnect to it instead of having to reload it.
16:09:11 <RavFX[m]> Add coin control
16:09:11 <RavFX[m]> I think the last bug is fixed (use to take forever to see transaction history when you have like over 1k TX)
16:10:29 <TrasherDK[m]> How about, ability to interact with monero-lws? I'd like that.
16:10:44 <lza_menace> ++
16:11:35 <RavFX[m]> And maybe some improvement, like say, when you create / import wallet, for now you have option for remove node (with default random whatever node) and full node.
16:11:35 <RavFX[m]> You can specify a remote not of you're choice but later in the process, it would be great to have the option to initially use a remote node of you're choice (before the thing start to initialize and do it's things)
16:11:56 <RavFX[m]> s/remove/remote/, s/not/node/
16:13:44 <RavFX[m]> I could maybe improve it.
16:13:44 <RavFX[m]> Last time I checked monero code I ran away when I saw wallet2.
16:13:44 <RavFX[m]> Maybe I should give a try for the GUI stuff
16:20:43 <TrasherDK[m]> I was brought up on 6510 assembly language, Kernighan and Ritchie and Rasmus Lerdorf. I don't C++, too much wierdness.
16:22:26 <RavFX[m]> I want a monero wallet cli made in assembler for my 486 🥰
16:23:28 <RavFX[m]>  * I want a monero wallet cli made in assembler for my 486 🥰
16:23:28 <RavFX[m]> Have to work with DOS network packet drivers
16:24:07 <TrasherDK[m]> I tried to compile on i686, and it did. Running a monerod is a different story. Thermal shutdown 🤣
16:26:40 <TrasherDK[m]> Spec: Linux amilo 6.1.31-smp #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Tue May 30 19:04:14 CDT 2023 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
16:27:14 <RavFX[m]> TrasherDK[m]: I assume monero-wallet-cli work fine using a remote node
16:31:00 <TrasherDK[m]> I would think so. I didn't try. RPC would probably be fine too. I've got a pre-random-x rig, standing next to that old Fujitsu-Siemens laptop, doing all that stuff. It was fun to try tho 😬
16:33:42 <TrasherDK[m]> BTW. That old laptop made a shitload of money, back in the day. It's not going anywhere 💖
16:40:17 <TrasherDK[m]> As both `mysql`and `node.js` don't release binaries for this platform, this bad boy compiles from source.
16:40:17 <TrasherDK[m]> `node.js`is about 18 hours 😂
18:00:16 <revuoxmr> Revuo Monero Issue 174: June 1 - 8, 2023. https://revuo-xmr.com/issue-174.html
18:52:50 <leoDMsopen[m]> monero should pump a bit
18:53:41 <leoDMsopen[m]> all criminals and russia and korea use it
18:53:42 <monerobull[m]> I subscribe to that idea 
18:55:22 <monerobull[m]> Perhaps once we're fully delisted from binance
18:57:17 <toralien[m]> leoDMsopen[m]: I also heard that american intelligence agencies have used it / are using it to pay the mexican cartels
18:57:46 <RavFX[m]> toralien[m]: You bet they are, it's sound money and easier to move than cash.
18:57:46 <RavFX[m]> They **need** monero
18:57:58 <toralien[m]> I also heard that I've used it to order a pizza
18:58:03 <monerobull[m]> Also 
18:58:04 <toralien[m]> Crazy is it not
18:58:08 <monerobull[m]> They auction off Bitcoin but not monero
18:58:28 <RavFX[m]> most obscure 3 letter agencies from most countries need monero for there shady ops
18:58:33 <RavFX[m]> It's why it's not going away
18:58:57 <RavFX[m]> But they don't need BTC for sure... :)
18:58:58 <monerobull[m]> Dumbass me didn't have enough money at the gas station this week and i only realized I could have bought a giftcard with monero after i got back home
18:59:38 <monerobull[m]> RavFX[m]: Like tor
19:00:02 <RavFX[m]> For me it just take 30 to do from my monero wallet to cash flowing in ATM, being unbanked never been that easy.
19:00:19 <RavFX[m]> monerobull[m]: Yep, And tor is going to be better with that new PoW thing
19:00:21 <toralien[m]> monerobull[m]: How can you know if they auctioned it off
19:00:25 <monerobull[m]> Imagine if TORs PoW was mining to p2pool 😭
19:00:26 <toralien[m]> you cant
19:00:27 <leoDMsopen[m]> once the US goes bankrupt we're going to the moon
19:00:36 <monerobull[m]> toralien[m]: They announce it?
19:01:00 <toralien[m]> leoDMsopen[m]: unless worst case scenario its not going bankrupt
19:02:20 <RavFX[m]> toralien[m]: Right.
19:02:20 <RavFX[m]> Just rape there citizen and everyone using USD. They can continue forever to increase the debt.
19:02:20 <RavFX[m]> I guess the only way would be that most country dump US debt but that's not going to append. Some are dumping it but it's nothing vs the total
19:02:52 <monerobull[m]> Theres an infinite amount of money at the federal reserve 🤡
19:03:39 <toralien[m]> RavFX[m]: > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Right.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/88e267b8901065b9c39c77abfea3dd4df259a5cf>)
19:03:47 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, just print more and payoff the debt interest using freshly printed money. And take more and more debt, as long as the other country are buying the bonds
19:04:10 <toralien[m]> its not even debt, who gives a shit about it, countries cooperate, they will just write it off for each other, who gives a shit about it
19:04:47 <toralien[m]> only decentralized economies will be "economies", everything else central planning nightmare scenarios
19:04:53 <RavFX[m]> toralien[m]: yeah, good point.
19:05:27 <nordbot3000[m]> RavFX[m]: > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Right.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e4501617396e6101e37a961025b9fd359f396759>)
19:05:41 <leoDMsopen[m]> Are you saying countries and not people hold the debt?
19:05:43 <monerobull[m]> Fiat is such a scam
19:05:54 <RavFX[m]> nordbot3000[m]: I moved to latam a LONG time ago, and never been a US citizen, not a problem for me.
19:06:22 <nordbot3000[m]> RavFX[m]: You can reside within the landmass of the united states as a state national
19:06:35 <nordbot3000[m]> don't need to even more anywhere, just change your status
19:06:52 <toralien[m]> nordbot3000[m]: ???
19:06:58 <toralien[m]> sovrn citizen?
19:07:28 <nordbot3000[m]> toralien[m]: sovereign citizen is the glow-op. what you're looking for is state national
19:07:31 <RavFX[m]> nordbot3000[m]: Yeah, but still, it's going to bleed you out of more XMR than living in latam. Why paying 2K USD/month for a cardbox apartment when you can pay 100$ / month for a house
19:07:34 <toralien[m]> nordbot3000[m]: ah right
19:08:44 <nordbot3000[m]> RavFX[m]: or you can have allodial title
19:08:54 <toralien[m]> RavFX[m]: citizenship per money or other methodology?
19:08:58 <nordbot3000[m]> and have actual land
19:10:46 <RavFX[m]> toralien[m]: other way.
19:10:46 <RavFX[m]> For some or most? latam country you just have to prove you receive X amount / month and can get permanent residency (and after 4 or 8 years, upgrade to become a citizen)
19:11:17 <toralien[m]> and know the right place to go to i suppose
19:11:35 <RavFX[m]> Can also invest to get it that way, most have that option too, like if you invest 100k or more
19:12:04 <nordbot3000[m]> toralien: if you were born in the united states you don't actually need to go anywhere. changing status is surprisingly simple
19:12:38 <nordbot3000[m]> the IRS literally has a 2 page form to fill out if you don't want to pay taxes anymore
19:12:46 <toralien[m]> nordbot3000[m]: i'm just investigating
19:13:03 <nordbot3000[m]> toralien[m]: yeah, that's why i'm offering this information :)
19:13:29 <toralien[m]> nordbot3000[m]: thanks
19:13:30 <RavFX[m]> nordbot3000[m]: Seriously? PEople complain that you even have to pay US tax if you go to another country ... like you have to pay the scam for life
19:13:57 <nordbot3000[m]> but income taxes in the US are entirely voluntary. there's all sorts of propaganda about how they're not but if you understand how the law works here, you'll realize what's going on 
19:14:03 <monerobull[m]> nordbot3000[m]: No way this actually works right?
19:14:24 <nordbot3000[m]> monerobull[m]: It does if you understand how to fill out the form
19:15:12 <nordbot3000[m]> There's a bit of autism to engage in here but income taxes only apply to employees of the corporated entity of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
19:15:24 <nordbot3000[m]> *corporate entity 
19:15:50 <nordbot3000[m]> and they're levied on a fictitious entity residing in the District of Columbia 
19:16:10 <nordbot3000[m]> this is what a "Citizen"  or a "US Person" is
19:17:09 <nordbot3000[m]> US Citizen is a bolt-on that came with the 13th amendment
19:17:33 <monerobull[m]> So what are the downsides of leaving that?
19:17:36 <nordbot3000[m]> it's a contract that one can opt out of
19:17:54 <nordbot3000[m]> you can't vote in USA Corp election
19:17:58 <nordbot3000[m]> *elections
19:18:04 <leoDMsopen[m]> You get a nice room in jail
19:18:10 <nordbot3000[m]> incorrect
19:18:19 <nordbot3000[m]> you exist outside of statutory law
19:18:31 <toralien[m]> leoDMsopen[m]: why are your dms open
19:18:33 <nordbot3000[m]> as a natural human
19:18:46 <nordbot3000[m]> look into statutory law vs common law
19:18:56 <nordbot3000[m]> statutory law is for citizens only
19:19:52 <nordbot3000[m]> if you're a national, you're beyond the jurisdiction of corporate law. the IRS has no interest in going after state nationals.  they provide the damn forms to change your status
19:19:54 <leoDMsopen[m]> toralien[m]: I'm an open person!
19:19:54 <nordbot3000[m]> look at form 56a
19:20:11 <nordbot3000[m]> "revocation of election"
19:21:10 <nordbot3000[m]> you can decide to stop paying income tax at any point.  there's all sorts of legal precedent here. if you do it correctly, you don't go to jail. if you claim that you're a US Citizen you can go to jail though, because taxes are an obligation of US Citizens
19:21:44 <nordbot3000[m]> there's tons of information on this stuff. 
19:21:55 <nordbot3000[m]> lots of legal precedent
19:22:06 <toralien[m]> nordbot3000[m]: will check it out and report when im a natural human
19:22:29 <nordbot3000[m]> toralien: yeah, natural human > corporate entity
19:22:46 <monerobull[m]> Holy shit
19:22:47 <monerobull[m]> Although non-citizen nationals are protected by and swear allegiance to the United States, they are not granted the same rights and benefits as full citizens. Since nationals are not citizens, they cannot vote for the election of federal politicians such as a congressman or president. Instead, nationals vote for a delegate to send to the U.S. House of Representatives. Thisrepresentative provides input but cannot vote on House affairs.
19:22:47 <monerobull[m]> Non-citizen nationals are also protected by the United States Bill of Rights on top of the laws of their home government.
19:22:47 <monerobull[m]> Concerning taxation, non-citizen nationals are exempt from paying a federal income tax or taxes to the federal governmenton wealth accrued within the territory. Territories, commonwealths, and possessions may, however, implement taxation plans which mirror those of the United States. They also receive economic assistance through some, but not all, national benefit programs or services such as Social Security.
19:23:05 <monerobull[m]> They get representation without taxation??
19:23:34 <nordbot3000[m]> monerobull: ignore the propaganda about "rights". an american national has 100% of his god-given rights. that's the entire point
19:23:34 <toralien[m]> this is some narnia type of shit
19:24:27 <nordbot3000[m]> you represent yourself as a natural human
19:24:38 <nordbot3000[m]> the only law you follow is god's law/constitutional law
19:24:45 <nordbot3000[m]> not statutory law/corporate law
19:25:21 <nordbot3000[m]> you have full 2nd amendment rights as a national for instance
19:25:45 <nordbot3000[m]> go buy whatever insane guns you want. no registration, no paperwork]
19:26:02 <nordbot3000[m]> because you're operating as a natural human outside of corporate law
19:27:03 <nordbot3000[m]> the entire USA corp is a bit of a sham. it fundamentally has no teeth because it's a corporate government that you can opt out of
19:27:37 <monerobull[m]> This just doesn't sound real lmao
19:27:39 <nordbot3000[m]> monerobull: yeah, because you've been conditioned 
19:27:52 <leoDMsopen[m]> So why doesn't everyone do that?
19:27:56 <toralien[m]> monerobull[m]: break out of the fucking matrix and lfg
19:28:09 <nordbot3000[m]> because they don't want to
19:28:12 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Mr anderson
19:29:14 <nordbot3000[m]> don't want to / incapable of understanding how to operate as a natural human
19:29:38 <nordbot3000[m]> being a sovereign means that you have a fundamentally different relationship with the world
19:30:18 <nordbot3000[m]> most prefer being wards of the state
19:30:20 <toralien[m]> @JJPMaster state your case
19:30:42 <JJPMaster[m]> toralien[m]: my case regarding what exactly?
19:31:09 <toralien[m]> JJPMaster[m]: idk you gave that emoji as if you have a counterargument or something
19:32:09 <nordbot3000[m]> i've largely gotten over my incredulity when it comes to "people" doing insane stuff though. most "people" want to be poor because they're unwilling to make the  "sacrifices "
19:32:14 <nordbot3000[m]> necessary for wealth
19:41:51 <toralien[m]> <JJPMaster[m]> "my case regarding what exactly?" <- i still don't understand what your problem is here, you seem cheesed, this seems bullish
19:42:07 <toralien[m]> so it's bullish, thanks for the signal, you heard it here folks, opt out and goodbye to the system
19:44:35 <JJPMaster[m]> toralien[m]: what?
20:45:31 <nikg83[m]> https://www.rino.io/blog/monero-view-keys-and-rino-neat-feature some explain how they doing it ? Are they able to do it because they have multisig spend key ?
20:48:18 <lza_menace> it kind of explains on that page
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