08:22:27 <mlcboss[m]> is paying with giftcards using monero more private compared to cash?
08:23:22 <mlcboss[m]> some mobile wallet help irl transaction by offering giftcards i believe is between cake or monero.com
08:51:29 <apotheon> mlcboss[m]: No, it's not likely to be more private than using cash, if you're doing all your purchasing in person.
15:17:09 <highfive[m]> das rite, the advantage of xmr is to pay remotely for things
15:17:20 <highfive[m]> * for things, while still preserving anonymity
15:17:34 <leoDMsopen[m]> das rite sistah
15:17:51 <RavFX[m]> Cash is great for localhost, and it work without internet
15:20:56 <highfive[m]> RavFX[m]: I've though about Qubes yest and for all intents and purposes I consider it an undeniably superior upgrade to the way we work on our devices. Being able to segment projects and technological requirements across multiple machines sounds amazing and totally support it
15:21:28 <highfive[m]> Despite limitations when it comes to hardware accel etc.
15:22:28 <RavFX[m]> highfive[m]: Yeah, activity segregation always been the way.
15:22:28 <RavFX[m]> Qubes force you to do it and do it better imo.
15:22:44 <highfive[m]> yes, very good observation
20:44:49 <playmate7782[m]> I was wondering why monero dont have upper limit like bitcoin
20:45:34 <playmate7782[m]> I went pro bitcoin because of concept of Hard money
20:45:53 <playmate7782[m]> limited supply stuff made sense
20:46:00 <ternee> That's not really what XMR was designed for though
20:46:10 <playmate7782[m]> what is inflation rate of monero per year?
20:46:29 <playmate7782[m]> so its is mind already and howong will tail emissions last??
20:48:47 <playmate7782[m]> I guess most influencers like saylor or nik bhatia or saifdean etc are pro bitcoin because of 21 million.
20:48:47 <playmate7782[m]> but even though monero dont have limited supply its still more scarce than btc for a long time right?
20:48:50 <ternee> Price is irrelevant with XMR though. It's not really about storing value. There are plenty of coins with that aim
20:49:53 <sech1> Inflation is 0.86% https://p2pool.io/tail.html
20:50:09 <playmate7782[m]> ternee: people outside America or europe not using USD or Euro need store of value much more than privqcy
20:50:15 <playmate7782[m]> why cant we have both?
20:50:34 <nioc> The tail emission only lasts as long as you live
20:51:01 <playmate7782[m]> nioc: didn't get it
20:51:58 <Rucknium[m]> It continues forever so Monero is secured by miners forever. If miners are not paid, the chain will be 51% attacked easily.
20:52:10 <ternee> They can. But that's not what XMR is. If you want something like you're suggesting you be better looking a stablecoin on the Haven protocol
20:52:10 <playmate7782[m]> sech1: ok and this wont increase right?
20:52:14 <Rucknium[m]> SSame with bitcoin
20:52:36 <playmate7782[m]> some day node owner or developers wont increase it
20:53:00 <sech1> inflation rate slowly decreases in Monero
20:53:21 <sech1> because total supply increases, but daily emission stays the same
20:53:48 <playmate7782[m]> stable coins ? I see that as shit coin and whats haven protocol
20:55:05 <playmate7782[m]> I want to switch 100% from btc to monero but before that I have many question and doubts and confusion. 
20:55:36 <ternee> Well Haven is a chain that use privacy techniques similar to XMR but it hasn't been tested enough to rely on yet and that's the issue. If they changed XMR radically, they wouldn't have that time tested record of highly resistant privacy
20:57:41 <ternee> XMR is unique in that we know some very well resourced attackers have tried and failed to compromise it. You can't get that overnight and any changes change that game and reset the record to zero years or privacy resistance. It's far better to leave XMR alone and create another coin to do what you want
20:59:43 <ternee> Pirate Chain is another attempt to do what you want. But no one will leave XMR for these because they don't want an untested coin. It's the same reason most people use XMPP OMEMO or Signal for private messaging
21:00:25 <playmate7782[m]> their are too many coins. it would be great if every one worked on max 4/5 coins. its waste or talent.
21:00:25 <playmate7782[m]> how is BITCOIN lighting privacy compared to monero? some place I read bitcoin guys going to solve privacy along with scalability with lightning. 
21:00:25 <playmate7782[m]> and whats the max no of transaction can be done on monero per second
21:01:13 <playmate7782[m]> can it compete with VISA etc now or in future
21:01:56 <playmate7782[m]> ternee: got it. but monero was also un tested once
21:02:12 <Rucknium[m]> Lightning's privacy is not good. There are several research papers about it.
21:02:21 <playmate7782[m]> what u mean by untested? not open source?
21:02:43 <Rucknium[m]> For the second question, read Mastering Monero or listen to some presentations by ArticMine
21:02:44 <ternee> Well Lightning is worth watching. For one thing it makes BTC transfers almost instant. You can do that now though with Blue Wallet. But as the guy just beat me to saying I would rate the privacy of it
21:03:14 <ternee> wouldn't rate
21:03:44 <ternee> It's just off chain really. It not really private
21:04:05 <playmate7782[m]> I seeked answer on Twitter but every time monero guys and zcash guys start trolling and confuse noon
21:04:34 <playmate7782[m]> Rucknium[m]: am reading right now. on second chapter
21:04:37 <ternee> Well that's more to do with Twitter than the coins in fairness
21:05:01 <playmate7782[m]> s/noon/noob/
21:05:10 <Rucknium[m]> A few Lightning Network privacy research papers:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/9a6d10a88afef38cc0c231c7699809685139e583>)
21:05:12 <RavFX[m]> Point to note too, is that inflation % go down slowly
21:05:18 <playmate7782[m]> ternee: yup but bad for crypto
21:06:19 <ternee> playmate7782[m], I guess so. I gave up on Twitter awhile ago though. So I can't really say I've kept up with the whole crypto twitter vibe
21:07:13 <ternee> I would say Lightning is a good network though. The performance and speed are excellent. It's just not private
21:08:29 <RavFX[m]> For lightning
21:08:29 <RavFX[m]> You also need really good nodes, centralization make it work better
21:08:45 <RavFX[m]> need lot of well balanced channels
21:09:05 <RavFX[m]> Kind of the reason I stopped using it
21:09:55 <RavFX[m]> They would have to change the whole thing, I think, to fix it.
21:13:51 <terneee> Yeah I don't understand how they ever thought that optional privacy thing was good idea. It's quite confusing actually because in theory their encryption system is a good idea and allowing encrypted memos was a really nice touch, but then they raze their own house by making it all optional. Clever but crazy is the way I see the Zcash devs :)
21:15:33 <playmate7782[m]> and anyone have any idea when all reddit subs be back. I still dont see r/monero or r/bitcoin etc
21:15:46 <playmate7782[m]> dont know what they gonna achieve 
21:16:17 <playmate7782[m]> first I thought reddit started banning crypto subs
21:16:21 <terneee> I didn't even hear about that. Give the lazy man's short news story :)
21:16:57 <RavFX[m]> playmate7782[m]: reddit is there : monero.town
21:17:20 <playmate7782[m]> ic thanks
21:20:55 <RavFX[m]> https://libreddit.hu/r/ModCoord/comments/148ks6u/indefinite_blackout_next_steps_polling_your/
21:20:55 <RavFX[m]> "Over 300 subs have agreed to remain dark until concerns are met. "
21:20:55 <RavFX[m]> Expect it down for a longer while
21:21:33 <terneee> what were the concerns?
21:21:38 <RavFX[m]> initial plan was to open tomorrow but the conscientious updated.
21:21:52 <RavFX[m]> terneee: Reddit axing alternative applications
21:21:56 <k4r4b3y[m]> <ternee> "I would say Lightning is a..." <- None of my IRL frens who tried running a self sovrn LN node have said it was a good user experience
21:22:19 <k4r4b3y[m]> In fact, running an LN node is such a pain that they switxhed to ising custodial LN
21:22:39 <RavFX[m]> Optimum centralization :D
21:23:06 <k4r4b3y[m]> Yep
21:23:06 <k4r4b3y[m]> LN plays well into the existing power structure of banks and central parties
21:24:24 <terneee> k4r4b3y[m], I haven't used it in a while to be fair. It used to work fine with Blue Wallet. I just used itr to except payments  on a coffee shop I ran. I only ever received about 50 quid
21:25:05 <terneee> This was about 3 years ago
21:25:14 <k4r4b3y[m]> Blue Wallet comes with an LN server? Or are you running your own LN backend in a SBC?
21:25:28 <k4r4b3y[m]> Were you*
21:25:31 <terneee> No I used their server
21:25:40 <k4r4b3y[m]> terneee: Gotcha
21:25:44 <terneee> I wasn't really looking for privacy
21:26:10 <k4r4b3y[m]> LN is simply not the tool for dissident political action.
21:26:39 <terneee> The coffee shop didn't work either. I had to go back to work :(
21:26:45 <RavFX[m]> I did use it about 3 years ago too. Did a few payments, got a payment stuck for a few hours. And I did not want to finance that much channels (to have something more usable)
21:27:41 <k4r4b3y[m]> RavFX[m]: The channel stuff in LN is so ass-backwards UX-wise that it is unbelievable btc'ers have fallen for it
21:29:19 <RavFX[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: Maybe it's a backdoor. like if most bitcoiners use that and most use quite centralized stuff, that would really help auditing.
21:30:15 <k4r4b3y[m]> RavFX[m]: If it looks like it's centralized and if it acts like it's centralized; then it _is_ centralized.
21:31:09 <RavFX[m]> Exact lol.
21:31:09 <RavFX[m]> Plus you miss nothing with LN.
21:31:17 <RavFX[m]> s/with/without/
21:31:22 <terneee> I think there's a real difference between the BTC crowd and XMR. BTC people are believers. I find XMR users tend to be sceptics. We don't expect a panacea. We're just interested in how things work. Generalisation warning :)
21:32:15 <k4r4b3y[m]> Facts:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/0c7034ce7b98e886bbd7e8ea91bd457fa02be741>)
21:32:21 <k4r4b3y[m]> Happier*
21:34:25 * terneee leaves quietly
21:36:39 <RavFX[m]> Many places accept 0 conf for small payment anyway.
21:36:39 <RavFX[m]> At that point, why using LN. Monero TX are faster, so waiting for 2-3 blocks in not an issue, like waiting a few hours to get a BTC tx "max fee" accepted.
21:36:39 <RavFX[m]> It's these high fee event usually during bullish period, that totally fsck the tunnel planing thing, when you can't close them or have to pay 60 to open one.. Really thing Africans going to use that scam (other that totally custodial solutions)
21:37:45 <RavFX[m]> Does it all have to append onchain? I think so, at least for now.
21:38:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> <terneee> "I think there's a real differenc..." <- Na
21:38:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btc users are delusional / hopers/ dreamers
21:39:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xmr users are confused af as why btc users thinks possible things are impossible and need to be dreamed about and hoped for. We just do it
21:40:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were skeptics about real things. Btc users are skeptics about upgrading code or in meaningful ways
21:40:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Weve used ct for how long? Stolen from them
21:40:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> They dont use it because they dream about it
21:41:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> delusional like monero didnt already POC it for them
21:41:32 <k4r4b3y[m]> Btc'ers unable to think what's possible beyond btc, because they are attached to the idea of btc itself, as it currently is.
21:41:32 <k4r4b3y[m]> Xmr'ers are attached to the idea of freedom itself and thus are able to modify xmr in accordance  with that goal.
21:42:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im not attached to anything 
21:42:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> I use good software, simple
21:42:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> I done use windows xp
21:42:48 <k4r4b3y[m]> Some get attached to freedom, some get attached to the "good software"
21:43:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> The freedom dream is in btc too
21:43:31 <k4r4b3y[m]> Not much. There is a reason the term is "btc maximalist" 
21:43:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont get freedom with a protocol that essentially forces you into using custodiak solutions 
21:44:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> But btc maxis will scream the opposite of reality all day, then eventually agree with thr cuckery 
21:44:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> "nfts are shit!!" Ffw "nfts are good"
21:45:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> "custodiak sokuti(ns are shit!" ffwd "we need l3/4/5 custodial solutions. Duh"
21:45:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> "we stand against the government and for freedom" ffw "freedom within the rules of the oppressors!"
21:45:55 <RavFX[m]> The Satoshi idea was... that we would be the custodians.
21:46:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maxis are mass delusion or stolkholm syndome 
21:46:19 <RavFX[m]> Project was hijacked.
21:48:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Trustless, permissionless, and uncensorable money
21:48:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btc is literally allowing people to bid off chain for blockspace
21:49:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Leading to invalid values being returned to wallets ans tx getting dropped becsuse theres no way to actually bid your way in on-chain if major mining pools all start taking bribes
21:50:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Will btc hard for to fix anything no
21:50:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/anything/_anything_?/
21:50:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/for/fork/, s/anything/_anything_?/
21:51:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btc is just making people chase a carrot they cant eat even if they grab it. Its not what its advertised as.. so the advertisement changes regularly
21:51:52 <k4r4b3y[m]> In a few decades I will be having a large popcorn and watching the shitshow around the "tail emission wars" in btcland.
21:52:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> i think could be as early as 2025..
21:52:28 <k4r4b3y[m]> Their whole culture is centered around a holy constant that also makes their whole system totally unworkable with
21:52:59 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Too early. Why do you think so?
21:53:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> The higher btc price is, the harder it is for txfees to cover the missing block reward 
21:53:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: Next halving losing a lot of money for miners if txfees dont go up
21:54:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Blocks are already full. Fees on each of these tx need to go up to replace the block reward
21:54:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its a lot worse if price rallies before the halving 
21:55:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Will be a good show to watch. To see is hashrate disappears, price rallies, tx fees jump, people move to custodial layers - what the reality will be
21:56:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Halvings are pretty silly when you think about setting up a market crash every 4 years
21:57:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like.. globalmoney.. security drops abrubptly by 50% every 4 years
21:57:43 <k4r4b3y[m]> "But bro it ups the scarcity so ngu"
21:57:46 <RavFX[m]> they could fix it, with a fork, but they wont
21:57:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> So say the month before youre barely making bank.. now what? You just shut down if price doesnt rally or fees dont skyrocket?
21:58:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> But bro. Monero is more scarce
21:58:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> And has is in a STABLE and RELIABLE emission
21:58:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/has//
21:58:31 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I know lol. That is my fav topic to talk with a btc maxi
21:58:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah im just join ya beinf sarcastic
21:59:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btc maxis wish they could grt btc at sub $200
21:59:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> 🐸☕
22:00:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> like lol. Xmr is the real btc
22:00:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bitmonero = bitcoin
22:00:28 <RavFX[m]> What are the chance that "satoshi" dump on them
22:00:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> doing everything bitcoin said they would
22:00:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> RavFX[m]: 100
22:00:48 <k4r4b3y[m]> RavFX[m]: Pretty slim.
22:00:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> And thats not even a fud topic
22:01:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> %hats absokutely retsrdedness
22:01:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> Those coins haven't moved in 15 yrs and I don't think they will ever move.
22:01:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who tf uses a protocol where 1 person holds over 10% from inception
22:01:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pretending like this functional\y broken and also cucked supply can ever be adopted
22:01:48 <k4r4b3y[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: How's the situation with Xmr, tho?
22:01:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who knows
22:01:57 <k4r4b3y[m]> Xmr had a pretty steep emission curve
22:02:23 <k4r4b3y[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: This is one of m contentions with monero
22:02:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yep, but monero gets used
22:02:31 <k4r4b3y[m]> My*
22:02:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then and now
22:03:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Articmine is on record donated 10s of thousands of xmr to ffs and development 
22:03:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> And a lot kf this xmr was sold to pay bills 
22:03:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Generfund onky has 8000
22:03:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> Yeah. Let's hope these sold xmr are in the hands of a diverse swt if people who actually need them.
22:03:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2023 fluffypony rug otw though. Any minute now
22:03:57 <k4r4b3y[m]> Set*
22:23:12 <monerobull[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "2023 fluffypony rug otw though..." <- it was supposed to happen like 2 months ago
22:36:00 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Rpc fees when?
22:44:28 <Demetrius[m]1> node as a service
22:56:46 <RavFX[m]> make you're own nodes :D
22:56:59 <RavFX[m]> plant a node a month
22:57:13 <icarolongo[m]> https://monero.town/post/2251
23:00:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Donation address in json like wownero... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e7bf66002f32e05f76f7a6f36855b27f15ebb030>)
23:07:03 <playmate7782[m]> <RavFX[m]> "Many places accept 0 conf for..." <- > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Many places accept 0 conf for small payment anyway.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/19ae37db715fd33bdada2d31630075451d81c943>)
23:07:44 <playmate7782[m]> I have problem with commies
23:08:10 <playmate7782[m]> tax theft by gov
23:08:35 <playmate7782[m]> u never know when commies takeover
23:09:15 <fr33_yourself[m]> <icarolongo[m]> "https://monero.town/post/2251" <- This is big news IMO
23:10:47 <thebentosamurai[> fr33_yourself[m]: Like really big...
23:11:04 <RavFX[m]> playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> people need 1) hard money first then they need privacy.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/1b66d59f968970de9e4eb30d1677d914b1d9ba1a>)
23:11:25 <RavFX[m]> I would add that for day to day gas and grocery, that mean that you use a custodian. So you don't own you're bitcoin.
23:11:39 <playmate7782[m]> people in Argentina, brazil are lucky and they gonna adopt monero faster than rest of the world. Indian gov have controlled inflation since 2014 post MODI. 
23:11:40 <RavFX[m]> * add that LN for day
23:12:10 <playmate7782[m]> so we will be last to adopt crypto on mass
23:18:14 <cerebral_flex[m]> Question: I don't want to hold my money in my bank account right now.
23:18:14 <cerebral_flex[m]> Is the best option something like Haven? I need it to stay stable.
23:19:11 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: > <@ishikawa:tchncs.de> Question: I don't want to hold my money in my bank account right now.
23:19:11 <playmate7782[m]> > Is the best option something like Haven? I need it to stay stable.
23:19:11 <playmate7782[m]> I dont keep money in bank even though Indian economy is robust
23:19:44 <cerebral_flex[m]> playmate7782[m]: Yeah I don't want to keep money in the bank.
23:19:47 <someoneelse49549> cerebral_flex[m]: > <@ishikawa:tchncs.de> Question: I don't want to hold my money in my bank account right now.
23:19:47 <someoneelse49549> > Is the best option something like Haven? I need it to stay stable.
23:19:47 <someoneelse49549> Unfortunately there is no other private stablecoin. And haven isn't stable at all. So if your goal is stability outside of the banking system there is no option
23:20:12 <playmate7782[m]> I think depending on your country u must have bitcoin and monero.  50/50
23:20:17 <cerebral_flex[m]> Damn 
23:20:18 <RavFX[m]> playmate7782[m]: A good stablecoin on TRX maybe (if you really have to hold dollar). But personally I trust the stables less and less
23:20:46 <cerebral_flex[m]> Reason I should not use haven?
23:21:16 <someoneelse49549> cerebral_flex[m]: price crash. 20 days lock before converting xUSD back into haven. Low volume. Lack of exchanges
23:21:22 <playmate7782[m]> my bitcoins are all from bitcoin mining. not a single coin I purchased. now am converting some to monero
23:21:33 <cerebral_flex[m]> someoneelse49549: I see
23:21:50 <cerebral_flex[m]> Fuck it maybe I should just xmr most of it 
23:22:35 <someoneelse49549> cerebral_flex[m]: you could. I'm confident to say that you shouldn't observe more than ~15% decrease or increase. 
23:22:45 <playmate7782[m]> so long term am Hodling btc as my coins are virgin coins. 
23:22:45 <playmate7782[m]> monero am holding for future purchases of VPN, SIM, PHONE etc when we are in 100% cashless society
23:22:52 <someoneelse49549> * or increase. over 4 months
23:22:52 <cerebral_flex[m]> I just need the money out of my account asap
23:23:01 <thebentosamurai[> Buy Silver lol
23:23:14 <someoneelse49549> thebentosamurai[: for real
23:23:25 <cerebral_flex[m]> someoneelse49549: OK good to know 
23:23:40 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: buy Gold
23:23:43 <thebentosamurai[> Literally the only "Stable Coin" outside of Gold...
23:24:15 <playmate7782[m]> you can carry 1 kg Gold in pocket. and sell it for btc, monero etc whenever u need.
23:24:37 <playmate7782[m]> but u have to sell entire 
23:25:15 <someoneelse49549> playmate7782[m]: you don't carry 1kg gold in your pocket like you carry your dog for a walk. Gold needs to be properly transport and it often take times to resell it
23:25:23 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: which country u r. whats ur purpose. depending on countries laws one can give u accurate advise
23:25:34 <playmate7782[m]> r u planning to leave country
23:25:45 <playmate7782[m]> u better buy btc
23:25:50 <playmate7782[m]> monero
23:25:57 <playmate7782[m]> whatever u get first
23:26:23 <playmate7782[m]> someoneelse49549: I carried lol
23:26:29 <playmate7782[m]> 1kg bar
23:27:20 <playmate7782[m]> I means one can use Gold when one needs tk run away with lot of money outside banking system
23:27:59 <playmate7782[m]> 1kg Gold is smaller than most smart phone
23:28:17 <playmate7782[m]> its fits ones palm
23:28:34 <playmate7782[m]> *big screen smartphone
23:30:08 <playmate7782[m]> someoneelse49549: Gold can be most easily resold
23:30:16 <playmate7782[m]> atleast in India
23:30:25 <playmate7782[m]> its more liquid than cash
23:30:26 <cerebral_flex[m]> Gold might be hard to move and draw attention, I would prefer crypto because of its easy on and off ramp.
23:30:48 <cerebral_flex[m]> I might split up my assets 
23:31:19 <playmate7782[m]> 1kg Gold is 62000+ USD
23:31:36 <cerebral_flex[m]> Or go btc - xmr
23:31:59 <playmate7782[m]> one can buy 10 peice of 10gram 
23:32:09 <playmate7782[m]> or may be ounce i.e 30 gram
23:32:19 <cerebral_flex[m]> I just need the money somewhere else away from my account so I might just covert to btc and xmr 
23:32:41 <playmate7782[m]> here we have 1 gram, 10 gram and 1 kg 
23:32:44 <RavFX[m]> <cerebral_flex[m]> "Reason I should not use haven?" <- Actually yeah, you can use xUSD.
23:32:44 <RavFX[m]> Hope singularity don't execute
23:32:46 <playmate7782[m]> thats common
23:33:44 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: Gold wont crash more than 10% 
23:34:05 <playmate7782[m]> if it is short term buy metal. if its long term buy btc or monero
23:34:25 <RavFX[m]> actually if you look at what USA is doing, but xUSD is backed by BUSD right (like half of the value)
23:34:33 <playmate7782[m]> if u buy btc/monero and tomorrow some FUD can tank ur wealth to 50%
23:34:58 <cerebral_flex[m]> playmate7782[m]: I see 
23:35:41 <playmate7782[m]> or split some for next 1 year, 5 year and so on. fund u need post 5 year buy btc/monero
23:35:50 <playmate7782[m]> fund u need one year from now Gold
23:37:13 <cerebral_flex[m]> I just don't think I can buy gold here without kyc 
23:37:16 <playmate7782[m]> USA when see USD/SWIFT monopoly ending can jack up price of Gold 10X, 20X or even 50X Over night and make USD redeemable again with Gold and pay all debt
23:37:26 <playmate7782[m]> we go back to 15 aug 1971
23:37:57 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: if its in your bank acc its white money
23:38:09 <playmate7782[m]> it should be no issue. u might pay some GST
23:38:18 <playmate7782[m]> or VAT or some tax
23:38:32 <playmate7782[m]> here in India its 12% on Gold
23:39:04 <cerebral_flex[m]> I need no record of the assets, if I buy gold I don't want anyone to know I'm holding 
23:39:23 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: buy monero with cash
23:39:31 <playmate7782[m]> thats the best option
23:39:38 <cerebral_flex[m]> That's what I usually do
23:39:49 <cerebral_flex[m]> I'm just going to hold xmr then 
23:39:59 <cerebral_flex[m]> Hopefully it don't go down to much 
23:39:59 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: so whats diff this time
23:40:13 <cerebral_flex[m]> playmate7782[m]: Fluctuations
23:40:20 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: it can go down for couple of days
23:40:43 <playmate7782[m]> all exchanges if forced to ban monero their wont be price discovery
23:40:52 <cerebral_flex[m]> playmate7782[m]: Also its going to be a large amount than I normally do 
23:41:13 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: buy wine
23:41:39 <playmate7782[m]> or some commodity which dont decay with time but become better
23:41:49 <playmate7782[m]> costly red wine or some liquor
23:41:54 <playmate7782[m]> or cigats
23:41:59 <playmate7782[m]> cigars
23:42:08 <cerebral_flex[m]> OK I think i know what to do.
23:42:08 <cerebral_flex[m]> Split up my assets 
23:42:22 <playmate7782[m]> diversify metal, crypro, comodity
23:43:07 <cerebral_flex[m]> I usually buy xmr with cash, but because I'm doing a larger amount this time I need to to kind of stay stable, not my much though so I will diversify my assets.
23:43:25 <cerebral_flex[m]> * I usually buy xmr with cash, but because I'm doing a larger amount this time I need to kind of stay stable, not by much though, so I will diversify my assets.
23:43:34 <playmate7782[m]> make some advance grocery purchase for a year
23:43:41 <playmate7782[m]> if u not running away
23:43:50 <cerebral_flex[m]> Main thing is it needs to be out of my bank account 
23:44:04 <cerebral_flex[m]> And no record of the asset 
23:44:24 <cerebral_flex[m]> So it can't be garnished
23:46:23 <playmate7782[m]> their are sites u can buy sell amazon gift cards for crypto. their is site where u make purchase on Amazon
23:46:36 <playmate7782[m]> deliver address is of some one else home
23:46:50 <playmate7782[m]> u get btc
23:46:55 <playmate7782[m]> donr remember name
23:48:28 <playmate7782[m]> few things are limited per acc on amazon. u cannot buy unlimited. so this is what people do. make purchase for some one else. add delivery of person paying crypto. I dont remember now. its was 5 years ago
23:48:39 <cerebral_flex[m]> playmate7782[m]: Might just do loclmonero for cash 
23:48:56 <cerebral_flex[m]> s/loclmonero/localmonero/
23:49:43 <playmate7782[m]> cerebral_flex[m]: depending on what u call big amount u may find it hard to find sellers. its almost impossible to buy monero with cash where I live
23:50:01 <playmate7782[m]> no monero sellers
23:51:02 <playmate7782[m]> I had 100+ monero 
23:51:29 <playmate7782[m]> converted to btc in 2017
23:51:47 <playmate7782[m]> I assumed monero to be shit coin at that time
23:53:56 <playmate7782[m]> actually I had purchased too much hash on genesis mining 2 years contract
23:54:06 <playmate7782[m]> and they stopped monero payout
23:54:15 <playmate7782[m]> they blamed monero developers
23:54:46 <playmate7782[m]> it was 2017. I was frustrated. monero payout was stuck for months
23:55:06 <playmate7782[m]> so thats made negative image of monero