00:40:11 https://youtu.be/FnKrMKo_WlU 00:40:28 this is best pitch to buy monero 02:49:36 I have question regarding seed. whether its bitcoin or monero, how is it possible that two people dont have same seed 02:50:38 whats the probability of two people downloading wallet and get exact same seed 02:51:25 I use custom seed on electrum. auto generated + 4/5 additional words 02:51:58 1 in a number with 79 zeroes, something like that 02:52:47 ok but it is possible, so better add one word of our own atleast 02:53:41 there are articles on how likely it is. if you used a general computer, it would like hundreds of thousands of years in making addresses to even have a slight chance of having the same seed 02:53:42 1/1000...79 is much rare btw 02:54:04 possible after sun turns off 02:54:24 there you go 02:54:25 haha 02:54:50 basically impossible 02:58:21 and same maths goes for generating stealth add. if my friends/customer send me 2 payments a day for coffee still their will be no duplicate stealth addrrss. 02:58:22 and wallets also never check blockchain to check if they r not repeating already generated stealth add 02:59:54 if I am daily receiving 2, 3 payments from same person and also both have same device. still no chance of generating same stealth add 03:00:17 that's more like magic than maths 03:21:46 what happens if some one spams too many used outluts/past transaction 03:22:29 does network get cluttered? or only senders has to wait till all key image is checked 03:23:22 what happens if simultaneously many fake transaction are done?? 03:23:22 only transaction with un used key image are added on blockchain? 03:24:51 does any attack slows confirmation time 03:34:46 is KOVRI feature implemented? 04:06:06 "is KOVRI feature implemented?" <- Kovri is all but dead b/c of Dandelion++ . Dandelion++ does the job of routing new transactions into the network anonymously 04:09:03 "what happens if simultaneously..." <- > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> what happens if simultaneously many fake transaction are done?? 04:09:03 > only transaction with un used key image are added on blockchain? 04:09:03 By protocol rules, only transactions with unique key images are added to the chain, so only one will ever make it onto the chain. Also, in implementation, nodes will only allow the first transaction that they see with any given key image into their mempool, all further attempts at double spending are dropped 04:10:05 "does any attack slows confirmati..." <- No 04:20:55 I thought dandelion had to do with bitcoin 04:21:28 I am impressed by name after watching video of dandelion on youtube 04:21:45 crypto industry have awesome bames lol 04:22:00 It was initially proposed for Bitcoin, but was implemented into Monero first IIRC 04:22:30 ic 04:22:40 Yeah Dandelion is a perfect name 06:20:04 "Kovri is all but dead b/c of..." <- D++ doesn't hide the fact that there is someone making bunch of outgoing connections to 18081 ports, am I right? 06:20:32 Kovri would've obfuscated that networking footprint, if I understand correctly. 06:42:56 18080*? 06:44:15 kovri is just i2p4monero 06:44:15 i2p in xmr is still broken 06:44:15 We can use i2p or tor to relay blocks 06:46:31 D++ < txproxy 06:47:53 D++ 30 seconds to obfuscate and propagate 06:47:53 txproxy + disabke_noise 3 seconds 06:48:16 and not just obfuscated, but anonymized 07:02:32 "D++ < txproxy..." <- By txproxy you mean i2p or tor, right? 07:05:14 Also, apart from just D++ obfuscating which node is the real "announcer" of a transaction, I am more concerned about the footprint monero nodes have on a certain network: am I correct in saying that the network owner can see that my computer is making a bunch of outgoing connections to 18080 ports of other computers? 07:06:10 Again, afaik, with i2p, your computer just connects to random ports of other i2p nodes. Thus, having a much larger plausible deniability as to what you do with these connections. 07:14:40 --proxy kills incoming connections but hides the fact that youre using monero 07:15:04 I will read up on that 07:15:15 --proxy isnt documented 07:15:34 Its in monerod help and github pr 07:15:54 Eh.. Then I will try that and see what it does 07:16:05 Its the block sync proxy 07:16:17 Works with tor (over exit nodes) 07:16:29 I remember we had that convo before on what --proxy does 07:16:44 I enable --proxy anytime im using an insecure / not-my network 07:17:15 Does --proxy allow my new node to make an initial blockchain download over the i2p network? 07:17:26 no 07:17:46 I2p (or onion, ie hidden services) doesnt serve blocks at all over monero 07:17:56 ofrnxmr[m]: So in what other ways does --proxy help you on insecure networks? 07:18:35 the only known info is that im using tor 07:18:43 ofrnxmr[m]: Oh that is cool 07:19:03 Its POSSIBLE to implement block sync over i2p and onion, very possible 07:19:19 I would very much like that 07:19:26 Bitcoin has that available to their nodes 07:19:30 We just dont do it yet due to fears of sybil attacks and partitioning 07:19:49 I get the fears about partitioning 07:19:51 Bitcoin has less full nodes than us, and users who dont csre about privacy 07:20:31 Monero users would likely flood to the most private option, whereas btc still just uses onion/i2p as "extras" 07:21:23 We would need to think of a way to ensure that each type of node has to communicate with another type 07:21:45 Like i2p must broadcast to clesrnet, clear must broadcast to tor,tor must broadcast to i2p etc 07:22:11 ofrnxmr[m]: Yeah. That sounds tricky. I would favor moving the whole network to i2p 07:22:21 im far not in favor 07:22:30 I2p isnt a great protocol and has a lot of bugs 07:22:41 Like the outproxy in i2pd had been broken for over a year 07:22:45 And they really dont care 07:23:10 ofrnxmr[m]: I2p isn't supposed to have "ourproxy" anyways 07:23:15 It is a closed network 07:23:20 It has it 07:23:25 And its broken 07:23:51 ofrnxmr[m]: I2p devs themselves say that the outproxy stuff in i2p is more of a "hack" 07:24:13 Just to shut up the noobs about "muh how to connect clearnet" 07:24:27 its not a hack 07:24:31 Its an outproxy 07:24:38 It proxies data to tor 07:24:49 which WOULD allow using i2p for m(nero 07:25:10 As you could then receive incoming over i2p and outgoing over exit nodes that can communicate with clearnet nodes 07:26:05 That sounds plausible and dandy, but with i2p there are far few outproxies that they would be the bottleneck for connection between the i2p monero nodes and the clearnet ones. 07:26:21 outprixies? 07:26:29 Its just 127.0.0.1:9050 07:26:56 Hmm.. Am I confusing outproxy and exit nodes here 07:27:01 So when you enter a non i2p address into the i2p 4447 proxy, it outproxies it to tor 07:27:21 Alright 07:27:51 The... some word i cant find.. is probably i2pd vs i2p naming 07:29:01 k4r4b3y[m]: Or i could be using the wrong word here altogether ^ 07:34:44 https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd/commit/f339544256842ef984abb4b9b15600819e1b66c8 07:36:11 im thinking one is httpoutproxy and the other is socksoutproxy 07:36:34 Im referring to socks, if thats the case 07:36:54 "It proxies data to tor" <- The outproxy can connect to any proxy server hosted over I2P I think 07:37:14 Stormycloud for example 07:37:32 ofrnxmr[m]: Are these the same feature? 07:39:26 Outproxy in I2P terminology is supposed to be what non-i2p connections get sent to 07:39:51 * Outproxy in I2P terminology is supposed to be what non-i2p connections get sent to 07:43:35 "Are these the same feature?" <- I think so 07:44:09 socks one is for socks proxy services, while http is for http proxies 10:06:35 https://twitter.com/StormyCloudInc/status/1668671052929544211 10:06:42 new remote nodes 10:07:08 https://twitter.com/MajesticBank/status/1668778168898015234 11:52:20 if monero dev make code change. limit block size, do layer 2 over monero, will this attract bitcoin maxi? or they limit max monero to 21 million. will bitcoin maxi adopt monero? 11:52:39 and is their any coin using mimble wimble? 11:55:44 Most bitcoin maxi with max followers are non computer/software guys like saylor or nik bhatia or saifdean or robert kiyosaki or planB. mostly bankers and investor. 11:57:03 are their any famous non technical guys like bankers or investor monero maxi? 11:58:34 they all managed to pump btc to 60k+ 11:58:35 and strangely monero have relatively topped 400 only 12:00:40 playmate7782[m] https://media.giphy.com/media/G3w5bFfY85rag/giphy.gif 12:00:57 you serious? 12:01:03 I am almost convice monero is way way better than bitcoin. but looking at bitcoin adoption rate seems it will take much time to moon 12:01:29 am wondering are bitcoin maxi dumb or ignoring truth 12:01:31 check bitcoin adoption rate on DNMs 12:01:56 compared to world population very less people have adopted btc 12:02:10 most people in India see btc as ponzi 12:02:28 my parents included. no one have heard about monero 12:02:43 its frustrating when u know truth 12:03:02 sech1: whats DNM 12:03:27 darknet markets 12:03:33 oh 12:03:38 where using wrong coin can put you "in a room" 12:03:40 I never used one 12:03:41 for many years 12:03:52 neither did I 12:03:57 but they all switch to Monero 12:04:06 I dont know anything I know only available on darknet 12:04:56 I am pure vegitarian. never tried and cigar, liquor or tobaco. drugs is out of league 12:05:01 bitcoin maxis will only say "you're shitcoin" no matter what arguments you provide 12:05:29 hard supply cap or not, doesn't matter to them 12:05:37 not Bitcoin? Then it's shitcoin 12:06:10 most Austrian economic talk only about btc 12:06:32 There is no second best, if it was worth using it'd be added as a layer2 yesterday and render your shitcoin obsolete - btc_maxiboi69 12:06:53 Austrian economic doesn't mean it's a biblical level truth and revelation 12:06:55 I dont blame them. even I wont understand most stuff. 12:07:05 IMHO Austrian economic is flawed itself 12:07:20 sech1: I got degree in economic 12:07:34 fixed supply mean less and less coins will be available in the future, with no way to resupply lost coins 12:07:34 I am convinced we were taught BS 12:08:11 so maybe it works for cash (printing new coins only to replace lost coins), but it doesn't work for crypto 12:08:27 sech1: no am saying austrian economic are pro bitcoin only because they believe its HARD MINEY 12:08:31 also, fixed supply means = no miner incentive when everything is mined 12:08:33 * no am saying austrian economic are pro bitcoin only because they believe its HARD MONEY 12:08:47 sech1: what hqppens to fees 12:08:58 they can still charge fees 12:09:21 fees are not a stable source of income for miners 12:09:27 playmate7782[m]: That is a quite irregular income for the miners. 12:10:16 and this is something I wont agree with monero folks. I may be wrong. 12:10:16 but just like people run tor or torrent etc people will run full node even if their is no incentive 12:10:47 what happens if all bitcoin miners shut down because of mining being not profitable 12:10:57 their will be nodes? 12:11:07 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> and this is something I wont agree with monero folks. I may be wrong. 12:11:07 > but just like people run tor or torrent etc people will run full node even if their is no incentive 12:11:07 you disagree with what? that relying on txfees alone is NOT irregular? 12:11:22 people can still use bitcoin right? 12:11:31 basically difficulty also decreases 12:11:33 with btc, the miners have to bet on 1) btc will have monetary value 2) there will be enough transactions taking place on the network. 12:11:41 with xmr, miners only bet on the 1) point. 12:11:45 less bet, less risk. 12:12:39 and do monero also have difficulty adjustment etc 12:12:41 ? 12:13:46 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> people can still use bitcoin right? 12:13:46 not if the transaction fees are high. and if people can't use bitcoin, then transaction fees will be low or nonexistent and the miners will not get paid. and you can see how these two extremes can cause a wild fluctuation for btc mining enterprises' economic calculation. 12:13:57 what happens if bitcoin price falls tomorrow to 1000 12:14:11 lets say all miner shut down 12:14:35 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> lets say all miner shut down 12:14:35 if literally all the miners shut down, the blockchain stops 12:14:46 and your lovely "difficulty adjustments" can't take place 12:14:56 developers will fork like BCASH guy did. and mining will done on laptops right? 12:15:10 because the difficulty adjustment take place every 2016 blocks (if I am not wrong). 12:15:22 yes 2 weeks approx 12:15:23 so, no blocks added means, no difficulty adjustment period getting completed 12:16:13 so then they need to update code or fork or do something to re adjust difficulty? 12:16:22 but you are all over the place: what are you discussing? I read that you were asking about if there are rich influencers promoting monero up above. and now you are asking about difficulty adjustment? what is the topic of this convo now? 12:16:55 because if we are gonna keep riffing on random talking points like this, we can spend the whole day. 12:17:02 k4r4b3y[m]: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> but you are all over the place: what are you discussing? I read that you were asking about if there are rich influencers promoting monero up above. and now you are asking about difficulty adjustment? what is the topic of this convo now? 12:17:02 > 12:17:02 I am trying to fig out whats tempting people to avoid monero 12:17:21 most of this billionaire or investors 12:17:41 they probably know transparency is bug 12:17:57 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> 12:17:58 > I am trying to fig out whats tempting people to avoid monero 12:17:58 for me it is mixture of monero's "scary" "dark" reputation plus the difficulty of layperson's reach-ability to buying monero. 12:18:05 I understand 70% of bitcoin. 12:18:16 both of these have solutions in the works, btw 12:18:21 I want to understand monero. so I compare it with btc 12:19:02 I dont understand btc 100℅ . especially encryption part 12:19:14 elliptic curve etc etc 12:19:23 merkel tree 12:19:25 etc 12:20:38 I understand diff between symmetric and asymmetric encryption. nothing more 12:21:14 like I said am 50/50 on btc and monero 12:21:27 before going 100% monero I need to be sure 12:21:46 playmate7782[m]: much of it is that they dont even know it exists or what it provides, rather than them actively rejecting it 12:22:27 the problem with "all or most miners shut down" is that Bitcoin will be vulnerable to 51% attack when it has low hashrate 12:22:48 and it will have low hashrate if miners get only fees 12:23:00 sech1: > <@sech1:libera.chat> the problem with "all or most miners shut down" is that Bitcoin will be vulnerable to 51% attack when it has low hashrate 12:23:01 that's right. 12:23:12 so it's fundamentally unstable 12:23:29 either miners will drop off randomly and blockchain will not move forward sometimes 12:23:33 with every miner leaving btc mining is more sha256 hashing equipment waiting on the sidelines for the govt to confiscate and mount an attack on btc. 12:23:38 or it will also be 51% attacked 12:23:39 Someone should write a book about monero.. "mastering monero" or "zero to monero" (some kind of catchy title) - would help alot 12:23:51 so it's not safe to only rely on fees for mining 12:23:53 sech1: this is what am wondering. now how monero hashrate compare to btc 12:24:04 sech1: > <@sech1:libera.chat> so it's fundamentally unstable 12:24:04 that's a common theme with btc: a lot of things about it causes it to behave (or will behave) in an unstable way. 12:24:08 monero hashrate doesn't compare to btc 12:24:14 it's a totally different algorithm 12:24:47 plowsof11: am reading one 12:25:26 sech1: this is one thing am trying to fig out since day one 12:25:59 I know btc is POW 12:26:00 k4r4b3y[m]: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> that's a common theme with btc: a lot of things about it causes it to behave (or will behave) in an unstable way. 12:26:00 > 12:26:00 the 1 MB block size limit, the 21 mil hard cap, the 4 year halving period, the easily-specialized hardware dependency with its production processes... 12:26:00 and does monero algorithm makes it less secure to 51% 12:26:27 all of these are unworkable if we want something beyond a ponzi scheme instrument. 12:27:39 51% is not just about hashrate. It's about hardware availability, mining centralization, pool centralization 12:28:01 Andreas antonopolous said gov need lot of money to spend on electricity if they want to revearse transaction 12:28:05 sech1: > <@sech1:libera.chat> 51% is not just about hashrate. It's about hardware availability, mining centralization, pool centralization 12:28:05 yes, I agree. 12:28:11 Thats something stick with me 12:28:11 In BTC, governments can knock on a few very specific doors and claim 51% of the network 12:28:34 because BTC is mined by huge centralized farms 12:28:39 sech1: > <@sech1:libera.chat> In BTC, governments can knock on a few very specific doors and claim 51% of the network 12:28:39 facts. they done so in Iran and Venezuela. They can easily do so in China. 12:28:43 btc not created in thin air. now its needs lot of electricity i.e work 12:29:39 so this I am trying to fig out 12:29:47 if monero has better algorithm 12:29:55 yes 12:30:00 better for decentralization 12:30:04 why people like andreas talk about it 12:30:09 anyone with a PC can mine it 12:30:14 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> btc not created in thin air. now its needs lot of electricity i.e work 12:30:14 the govt OWNS the electricity generation and distribution infrasturcure my dude. And those large scale mining operations are sitting ducks... 12:30:17 it wrote book about etherum too 12:30:21 I'm about halfway through Mastering Monero 12:30:36 SNeedlewoods: written by andreas? 12:31:03 sech1: > <@sech1:libera.chat> anyone with a PC can mine it 12:31:03 now, some PC _do_ mine better, though. But still, the level of potential mining activity distribution is greater than it is with btc. 12:31:09 he contributed to it afaik 12:31:21 it's a great book 12:31:57 have sold ether post migration of POW to POS 12:32:08 i dont understand POS 12:32:17 monero sounds like POS 12:32:25 no asic involved 12:32:39 I dont know if Asic ban was good or Bad 12:32:43 I see it as Bad 12:32:49 you really don't understand POS 12:33:01 because Monero is not POS 12:33:17 sech1: so its GPU 12:33:20 MINING 12:33:30 ? 12:33:32 no it's not GPU 12:33:36 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> 12:33:36 > so its GPU 12:33:36 no. monero is CPU mining 12:33:48 one data center one vote ;) 12:34:14 I had purchased lot of monero mining hash rate with genesis mining. they stopped contracts and offered alternative 12:34:33 it was long back 12:34:36 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> I had purchased lot of monero mining hash rate with genesis mining. they stopped contracts and offered alternative 12:34:36 you mentioned this before... 12:35:26 so I was in impression thats monero did something controversian like bcash 12:35:43 k4r4b3y[m]: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> one data center one vote ;) 12:35:43 > 12:35:43 irrespective of hash? 12:36:18 they can mine more but cant do 51 as it only have one vote right? 12:36:54 k4r4b3y[m]: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> > <@playmate7782:matrix.org>... (full message at ) 12:37:07 I assumed it was GPU 12:37:43 all I have to download full node right? dont care about mining rewards 12:38:06 And how to mine on browser 12:38:17 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> 12:38:17 > in that case I will start on my old device 12:38:17 try it out, it is great. Use gupax.io 12:38:25 basically browser extention use computer resources right? 12:38:47 playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> all I have to download full node right? dont care about mining rewards 12:38:47 yeah, as I said, use gupax software, it makes all the work easier to setup. 12:39:31 hmmm 12:42:10 no browser extension 12:42:29 browsers can't mine Monero 12:42:34 you need dedicated miner software 12:58:21 "if monero dev make code change..." <- For fuck sake. Someone please open Reddit again. I can't take more of this shit. 13:17:32 What what. 13:17:32 If they limit XMR to make it like a shitcoin, BTC maxi won't migrate because there coin already all do that. It would just make Monero user run away to another coin or fork monero so it can continue to be great. 😂 14:01:22 the parameter from 'transfer' command in 'monero-wallet-cli' is in XMR, correct? 14:01:53 SNeedlewoods: yeah, 1.3 is 1.3 xmr 14:01:54 because the transfer method of the RPC is in atomic units 14:02:15 the amount in the transfer method* 14:02:35 thx 14:03:33 ofrnxmr[m] k4r4b3y[m]: iirc --proxy allows block downloads over tor, but --tx-proxy does only txes over tor 14:09:07 "ofrnxmr k4r4b3y[m]: iirc --proxy..." <- > <@vtnerd_:libera.chat> ofrnxmr k4r4b3y[m]: iirc --proxy allows block downloads over tor, but --tx-proxy does only txes over tor 14:09:07 I will try this out. If I can completely conceal every internet connection of my node under Tor (including initial blockdownload, and the tx propaagation) that would be great. 14:12:15 vtnerd: how do I use the `proxy` directive in monerod.conf file? I have the examples of using --tx-proxy, but no "proxy" directive itself. 14:30:42 I suppose `proxy=127.0.0.1:9050` is enough? 14:51:02 this is cool: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/5914#issuecomment-1093073277 15:27:25 I'm playing around with monero-wallet-cli, but I'm unable to connect to stagenet with the following command: 15:27:27 ./monero-wallet-cli --wallet-file TestStagenet --stagenet --daemon-address monero-stagenet.exan.tech:38080 15:29:14 I get to the output "Use the "help" command to ... " and a warning "Warning: using an untrusted daemon at monero-stagenet.exan.tech:38080" but I'm not able to type anything 15:36:49 first tried on v0.18.2.2-2f45d5c6 built from source and then tried with v0.18.2.2-release 15:48:45 Not quite sure of the convention for questions/support, so I posted mine in Monero Support. 15:48:45 If anyone is able to take a look, or could let me know if I should just ask in here would be much appreciated 🙏 16:47:44 "./monero-wallet-cli --wallet-..." <- Wrong port, probably. `38080` is normally reserved for P2P connections. You want a `RPC` port. 16:50:14 TheDragon: Don't ask permission, ask for forgiveness, after the fact 😂 17:02:18 "D++ doesn't hide the fact that..." <- Yeah they couldn’t use port numbers as a heuristic anymore but Kovri wouldn’t be able to hide when someone is making a bunch of connections to IP addresses associated with Monero nodes 17:04:59 jeffro256[m]: If the other nodes also use kovri, how would an outside observer discern those other nodes as part of Monero network? 18:00:16 Revuo Monero Issue 175: June 8 - 15, 2023. https://revuo-xmr.com/issue-175.html 18:12:49 TrasherDK[m]: thanks, but that's what I tried first and I got the error "Error: Wallet konnte keine Verbindung zum Hintergrunddienst herstellen: monero-stagenet.exan.tech:38081. Daemon either is not started or wrong port was passed. Please make sure daemon is running or change the daemon address using the 'set_daemon' command." 18:13:55 idk why the first sentence is in German, I thought I've set the language to English, but it translates to something like "wallet couldn't connect to daemon" 18:21:57 Who's node is that? 18:22:20 http://monero-stagenet.exan.tech:38081/get_info 18:23:04 https://monerodocs.org/infrastructure/networks/ 18:23:24 Why not just spin one up.c 18:24:13 what do you mean? Should I create my own stagenet? 18:25:42 ./monerod --stagenet 18:25:57 It will sync your a stagenet node locally 18:26:34 If thats too much trouble, you can find an active node here https://community.rino.io/nodes.html 18:28:01 thanks, I'll look into that 18:35:50 tried syncing, it would take too much time and space, but the rino.io node works, thx 18:51:53 I just noticed the language I've set was just for the mnemonic seed. Is there a way to change the general language? 18:52:28 "If the other nodes also use..." <- Well i guess depends on if it integrates with the rest of I2P traffic or makes its own network. It could be more anonymous if there are other services outside of Monero which are routing Monero traffic 18:56:14 My main concern for all of this (whenever I try to shill i2p + monero here): in the third-world it can be suspicious to run a monero node. Since on the clearnet monero nodes leave a pretty much clear footprint (bunch of connections to other computers' 18080 ports) that can put the monero node operators in crosshairs. That's why I have been learning about ways of obfuscating such a network footprint. 18:56:59 I think for the time being, I will use --proxy option to route the initial blocksync traffic to tor. and use --tx-proxy to route the transaction data propagation to tor, too. 18:57:42 but again, using tor itself is also suspicious here in the third world, and more and more public wifi networks operated by the city municipalities block connecting to the tor network (and no, bridges do not work either). 18:58:27 in contrast to that, i2p works in these public wifi points operated by the city municipality. And that's why I was constantly asking (hoping) about a way to also do the initial block download over i2p network. 19:00:51 how much memory on avrg does mem pool need 19:02:41 It's typically very small right now since <1MB since there's not really any backlog to speak of 19:03:09 how many transaction feet in 1mb 19:03:21 s/feet/fit/ 19:05:34 "in contrast to that, i2p works..." <- Have you looked at this guide (it might be out of date idk) ? https://www.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/node-i2p-zero.html 19:05:44 playmate7782[m]: ~400 19:06:23 500 19:06:44 jeffro256[m]: > <@jeffro256:monero.social> 19:06:44 > Have you looked at this guide (it might be out of date idk) ? https://www.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/node-i2p-zero.html 19:06:44 I did. isn't i2p zero no longer maintained or something? afaik there are only i2p java implementation and i2pd (there is alo i2p+ I guess) 19:07:18 yeah, the latest release of i2p zero is back in 2020 19:07:26 Ngl I'm not super familiar with i2p implementations 19:08:45 There have been some radical changes to i2p in the last few update cycles, so older versions may not be able to connect to the newer versions 19:08:47 jeffro256[m]: That's only for tx broadcasting not initial block download I'm pretty sure 19:08:51 * Demetrius[m]1 uploaded an image: (83KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/envs.net/fcf70ed1b1eaa02b1c9b5b56919a4eef05665df4/pga55zruo66b1.webp > 19:08:52 Monero will be the King 19:09:06 Hail, to the King 19:09:10 jeffro256[m]: > <@jeffro256:monero.social> Ngl I'm not super familiar with i2p implementations 19:09:10 also, the point isn't using i2pzero or not. The point is this: currently monero cannot do initial block download over i2p network. And also ofrn says i2p implementation in monero is broken. 19:09:19 demetriusyukirozki[m]: > <@demetriusyukirozki[m]:libera.chat> Monero will be the King 19:09:19 it always is. 19:10:04 IIRC even using Tor you can only sync through exit nodes as well 19:10:38 demetriusyukirozki[m]: > <@demetriusyukirozki[m]:libera.chat> Hail, to the King 19:10:38 real recognize real: https://piped.video/watch?v=DelhLppPSxY&listen=1 19:11:08 boog900[m]: > <@boog900:monero.social> IIRC even using Tor you can only sync through exit nodes as well 19:11:08 yeah, that's true. But at least even with that I can conceal my monero node's internet connections AND do the initial block sync. 19:15:17 IIRC the decision to not do sync over hidden networks was because of the potential issues around peers giving bad blocks and not being able to ban them 19:16:42 boog900[m]: > <@boog900:monero.social> IIRC the decision to not do sync over hidden networks was because of the potential issues around peers giving bad blocks and not being able to ban them 19:16:43 yeah that was mentioned here before, I know. 19:16:56 Ah ok 19:17:32 I am just saying again, that decision is causing a trade-off in which the monero node operators are forced to use easily identifiable networks with peculiar footprints (tor, or monero clearnet) 19:17:45 for initial block download at least 19:34:27 we need to take a good hard look at how bitcoin mananages to not get partitioned 19:34:30 And copy them 19:35:42 spcifically full nodes on btc, since thry actually have less than us 19:35:53 yeah 19:36:57 Iirc btc forces you to allow clearnet, and only can add i2p and tor on top. 19:36:57 I dont believe anon networks are intended to be used exclusively on btc, but i barely did my homework on it 19:37:51 Same for me too (not doing a proper homework) but I remember seeing a guide on how to just allow tor + i2p on a btc node 19:38:58 Yeah, i remember reading that you couldnt disable clearnet though. 19:39:32 Imo an immediate win, since --proxy is already implemented and we already have a partitioning problem with nodes that lack incoming 19:39:56 Is to..... (thinking) 19:41:18 - Nodes who dont support incoming clearnet should allow incoming via anon networks 19:41:18 - nodes who do support incoming clearnet should prefer outgoing via anon networks 19:42:12 Er. No, bullet 1 flawed 19:42:25 I think --proxy allowing tor to do the initial block download and --tx-proxy allowing tx-data propagation over tor is an immediate win---in the snese that I can conceal that I am running a monero node on a certain network. The problem for the middle-, t- long-term is the fact that tor will be blocked on more and more public networks. Then people like me will have a problem with syncing their mobile nodes (on android or laptops) over tor. 19:42:39 Its a w with a L 19:42:55 lol yeah 19:43:22 I mean W with a W 19:43:24 --proxy adds privacy for the user, but hurts/destroys the network if everybody uses it 19:44:12 It relies on people who dont use it to serve massive data 19:45:58 IMHO, long term, camouflaging Monero node traffic as, e.g. video streaming, would help people access Monero in extreme network environments. Tor works until it is blocked. 19:46:00 Extremely difficult to do. I have skimmed a few papers about the general problem. 19:46:23 Put it on cuprate so it doesn't affect...and boog900 is typing 19:46:51 cuprate pls i2p 19:46:58 * pls i2p... 19:48:53 - Nodes who dont support incoming clearnet should allow incoming and outgoing via anon networks. Blocks should be relayed from clearnet to anon, and anon to anon. 19:48:54