04:28:28 <kinghat[m]> https://brrr.money/
04:40:29 <zr> funny website
09:37:05 <tom[m]12> Hi all . I would appreciate your advice and experience. On which service can I buy a virtual number for xmr to register in telegram?
09:55:14 <plowsof11> on monerica.com there are several options under Phone Plans & Sim Cards. i have not verified the options available OR checked if monerica contains any trackers or js tom 
11:12:32 * louissignet[m] uploaded an image: (165KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/IfolqcEEkzkPFfiNlykyVlOH/Screenshot%202023-07-01%20at%2013.12.10.png >
11:12:50 <louissignet[m]> This made me think that people will inevitably find out that Monero solved proof-of-work on CPU
11:13:00 <louissignet[m]> AI is, therefore, very bullish for Monero.
11:15:03 <louissignet[m]> 1- AI will be able to solve any CAPTCHA
11:15:03 <louissignet[m]> 2- CAPTCHAS need to be replaced by Proof-of-Work
11:15:03 <louissignet[m]> 3- Random-x is the only battletested PoW CPU solution
11:15:03 <louissignet[m]> 4- Profit??
13:12:25 <naphtha[m]> <louissignet[m]> "AI is, therefore, very bullish..." <- dont see how monero would be directly used in this case
13:12:33 <naphtha[m]> there is no wasm randomx implementation
13:12:53 <naphtha[m]> even tor used a modified randomx algorithm in their dos mitigation
13:14:53 <merope> Doesn't have to be wasm
13:15:29 <merope> You implement it within the browser itself, and the website can call it via some api
13:16:10 <naphtha[m]> right
13:16:18 <naphtha[m]> thats what tor browser did
13:16:24 <naphtha[m]> but even they didnt use straight randomx
13:18:04 <naphtha[m]> it would be really cool if you had to solve some randomx hashes and send them before being let into a website
13:18:12 <naphtha[m]> but it hasnt been implemented yet by anyone
13:18:16 <naphtha[m]> maybe theres a good reason for that
13:25:40 <merope> Nah, it would make perfect sense. There was/still is an "rpc pay" feature inside monerod that works exactly like that, for making rpc calls (eg. requesting blocks to sync a wallet)
13:26:12 <merope> My guess is that they didn't want to be "politically" tied to Monero's development/success
13:26:32 <merope> Eg if Monero goes down tomorrow for whatever reason, or makes some breaking changes
13:26:46 <naphtha[m]> inb4 monero browser
13:28:00 <naphtha[m]> if anyone's down i'm down
13:28:18 <naphtha[m]> i have some useful ideas that havent been implemented yet in any browser
13:28:50 <naphtha[m]> we're going to fuck brave
13:29:45 <louissignet[m]> <naphtha[m]> "dont see how monero would be..." <- Apart from the fact that it couldbe merge mined. I think the overall point is that it is cementing Monero's case for CPU PoW.
14:02:32 <TrasherDK[m]> Ah yes. Websites background mining Monero is coming back 😬
14:03:21 <naphtha[m]> there should be a limit on how many hashes can be solved
14:09:23 <merope> Why?
14:09:36 <merope> (Not that you could ever implement such a thing, anyway)
14:10:06 <merope> If you need to implement a limit, then your PoW algo is not hard enough
14:10:44 <naphtha[m]> merope: so that websites dont mine forever
14:11:23 <merope> The website doesn't mine anything
14:13:27 <naphtha[m]> it should
14:13:31 <naphtha[m]> that's what i'm proposing
14:14:48 <anarkiocrypto[m]> As long as it doesn't make it inaccessible for 10+ year old laptops or 5+ year old phones, or overheat the CPU...
14:30:58 <spirobel[m]> <louissignet[m]> "He got mad after mordinals..." <- Okay let me clear up a few things: 1. I am not the person behind mordinals. I would build it properly. There is ample opportunity to build it in a way so it can never be pruned or censored. Information can be embedded in outputs and proofs. The way they did it was lazy. 2.Some people presented themselves as "monero experts" on twitter and elsewhere and made confident statements about how
14:30:58 <spirobel[m]> Ordinals couldnt be done on Monero. That is simply not true. It can absolutely be done. But instead of admitting their mistakes they doubled down on their goofy statements and insults. I am pissed off that this kind of behavior is respected and encouraged. This kind of smug asshole behavior with nothing to back it up will not lead us to success. Bitcoiners share many of the same values as we do. If we want to win we need to win them over.
14:30:58 <spirobel[m]> I dont think smugness is the way to do it. But if we want to be smug, we should at least be right. 
14:41:07 * spirobel[m] uploaded an image: (307KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/BuOevEzrSoAZKFVkJxSVaWhC/Screenshot%20from%202023-07-01%2022-36-21.png >
14:41:51 <naphtha[m]> damn nigga whatd he do
14:42:58 <recanman[m]> <spirobel[m]> "Okay let me clear up a few..." <- You can fork it and provide a PoC, or at least explain it. 
14:43:13 <spirobel[m]> spirobel[m]: he talks a lot of shit and has nothing to show for himself. 
14:43:21 <recanman[m]> How would you embed information in outputs? That's interesting
14:43:48 <recanman[m]> spirobel[m]: I think he just makes a lot of jokes that you do not understand. I don't understand them either
14:44:58 <spirobel[m]> recanman[m]: he provokes people and just creates trouble. He is just a troll. It is annoying that a person like this can insert himself into the CCS process. Anway ... lets get back to the topic
14:45:16 <spirobel[m]> recanman[m]: I think so too. We can talk about this another time.
14:45:27 <recanman[m]> Ok
14:49:27 <Rucknium[m]> recanman: Embedding data in outputs is about 3/4 down this thread: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/6668
14:49:49 <recanman[m]> Thank you very much.
14:55:19 <louissignet[m]> I never said anything false. Spirobel did got mad about Mordinals, I remember the tweets. I also never said here they were censored or undoable, just “curtailed”. Also a fact.
14:59:05 <spirobel[m]> louissignet[m]: lets just leave it at that. I also didnt mean you specifically. It was mostly untraceable and jtgrassie. You can search the conversation in detail if you care to go down this rabbit hole. 
14:59:12 <spirobel[m]> s/also//
14:59:57 <louissignet[m]> Yeah, I think your ideas and contributions have been valuable overall for what is worth.
15:00:39 <louissignet[m]> Glad you are still hanging around here
15:08:39 <susman1[m]> ayo anyone know any gambling sites that take XMR?
15:08:53 <recanman[m]> There is betcrypto.cr but that is in development.
15:09:04 <ceetee[m]> <naphtha[m]> "damn nigga whatd he do" <- ofrn has a sarcastic humor and doesn't sugercoat if he doesn't like something
15:09:16 <recanman[m]> There is also one for guessing the XMR block hash but I forgot the name
15:09:46 <naphtha[m]> recanman[m]: damn they have pragmatic games
15:09:53 <naphtha[m]> will they require kyc?
15:10:03 <recanman[m]> No, just JavaScript
15:10:20 <recanman[m]> I write the Monero Standard and they contacted me a while ago, they told me it is not done uet.
15:10:28 <recanman[m]>  * I write the Monero Standard and they contacted me a while ago for a review (when it is done), they told me it is not done yet.
15:10:44 <naphtha[m]> cooool
15:10:47 <spirobel[m]> ceetee[m]: he just seems like his feelings got hurt by someone 🤣
15:10:51 <naphtha[m]> they don't have egt games though :'(
15:11:00 <naphtha[m]> nothing gets me as angry as egt games
15:11:01 <spirobel[m]> dont know where the humor is in that ...
15:11:56 <ceetee[m]> if you were on matrix mor often, you'd know him better
15:12:16 <spirobel[m]> ceetee[m]: I was before ... and I left because of this kind of vibe
15:12:23 <ceetee[m]> he has 0 tolerance for BS
15:12:59 <ceetee[m]> especially when people want to get paid for BS
15:13:29 <spirobel[m]> I dont think what I did was BS
15:13:37 <spirobel[m]> I spent my own money on it btw
15:13:42 <recanman[m]> I was told by ofrn that you are "emotionally manipulative", I don't know either of you well enough in order to build a conclusion
15:13:46 <spirobel[m]> I think he is just an asshole
15:13:57 <spirobel[m]> full of unprocessed trauma
15:14:08 <ceetee[m]> you are projecting
15:14:08 <spirobel[m]> take a look at this twitter banner
15:14:20 <recanman[m]> I see his name quite frequently, looks like he contributes a lot
15:14:44 <recanman[m]> It does not seem too important to take what he says personally, or rather anyone. A good life lesson
15:15:19 <ceetee[m]> spirobel[m]: Good on you. What I meant to say is that the moment anyone asks for money, they have to be ready for harsh critisim
15:15:54 <ceetee[m]> recanman[m]: ofrn almost single handedly runs Monero Support 
15:16:02 <recanman[m]> Especially when it is raised by a community, and not from a wealthy investment firm
15:16:05 <ceetee[m]> * ofrn almost single handedly runs 
15:16:33 <spirobel[m]> there is no need for this kind of behavior. It is unprofessional and will scare away honest contributors. Negative value add.
15:16:46 <ceetee[m]> ...runs Monero Support  (damn matrix formatting 💢)
15:17:42 <spirobel[m]> ceetee[m]: monero runs? 
15:18:04 <ceetee[m]> * ofrn almost single handedly runs (see next comment)
15:18:17 <ceetee[m]> the room Monero Support 
15:18:27 <ceetee[m]> matrix f'ed up formatting
15:21:44 <spirobel[m]> I dont know maybe he does good stuff I didnt see. I just see that he insults my work and my character. 
15:21:49 <spirobel[m]> and I see his twitter banner
15:21:55 <spirobel[m]> he just looks like a lunatic
15:22:06 <spirobel[m]> but maybe he is different in monero-support
15:22:13 <naphtha[m]> <ceetee[m]> "...runs Monero Support  (damn..." <- Hmm ... Damn bratty matrix ...! !! ! Fucking the formatting 💢💢 Rape correction is needed ... 💢
15:22:54 <plowsof11> did i just read that 
15:23:06 <naphtha[m]> 😿
15:23:16 <recanman[m]> spirobel[m]: He seems pretty normal based off the interactions I have had with him.
15:23:29 <recanman[m]> * seems pretty "normal, * normal", *  for a Monero extremist based off
15:24:23 <spirobel[m]> recanman[m]: yeah maybe others have a different experience. My interactions with him were exclusively negative. 
15:24:54 <recanman[m]> Maybe we should look at what you said to him, I think your maybe is definitely 
15:25:02 <recanman[m]>  * Maybe we should look at what you said to him, I think your "maybe" is "definitely" 
15:25:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> <spirobel[m]> "he just seems like his feelings..." <- Im in a meeting
15:25:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> I have no feelings
15:25:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> you got yours hurt
15:25:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> My ban list is 0people.
15:25:39 <spirobel[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: tough boy
15:25:53 <recanman[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: based
15:25:57 <recanman[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> I have no feelings
15:25:57 <recanman[m]>  * ~~based~~
15:27:33 <spirobel[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: there is a scoreboard somewhere in the universe: ofrn feelings hurt:0 everyone elses feelings hurt: 99999 over 9000
15:27:38 <spirobel[m]> this is so cringe lol
15:27:57 <spirobel[m]> bet  ofrn feelings hurt is at least 1 and it was so bad no he has none
15:28:08 <spirobel[m]> s/no/now/
15:28:10 <recanman[m]> spirobel[m]: I don't like to use the fallacy of projection, but in this case, it may seem infallacious.
15:32:24 <k4r4b3y[m]> <ceetee[m]> "...runs Monero Support  (damn..." <- I appreciate this support room.
15:32:46 <k4r4b3y[m]> Learnt a lit about monerod.conf file from there
15:32:52 <k4r4b3y[m]> *a lot
15:48:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> <font color="#789922">>Bitcoiners share a lot of the values we do</font>
15:48:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> That's not true. Been not true for a while now. From 2018 and onwards, bitcoiners became "NGU first, crypto-anarchism second". They became (and got the newcomers) btc-bluepilled. Monero community (in general) share not much with the bunch on the btc side of the fence, who write articles about how the custodial "scaling" solutions are needed, and how the darknet markets do not actually matter and thus should be left behind, etc. etc. The
15:48:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> only btc sub-culture that I see that actually shares a large portion of Monero community's cultural values is the btc subculture around Samourai Wallet. The other parts of the btc culture got degenerated into getting btc on a course to toxic-adoption (which is, adoption by KYC, and by custodial btc banks) and toxic value appreciation (that is, bending the knee to the regulators for the sake of greater fiat money valuation).
15:50:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> In addition to that, whole-a-lot of the Bitcoiners in the Samourai Wallet subculture circles _already_ use Monero, and speak well about it. So, there is not much more people to "win over." As a result, I do not think Monero community has to take some kind of action in order to earn the hearts of some more btc users.
15:50:21 <recanman[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> <font color="#789922">>Bitcoiners share a lot of the values we do</font>... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/470333a275e2b43ddfa0f7a66f08d569507a2fec>)
15:50:22 <recanman[m]> >test
15:50:43 <k4r4b3y[m]> <font color="#789922">>Not knowing how to greentext</font>
15:50:50 <k4r4b3y[m]> smugpepe.jpeg
15:52:00 <spirobel[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> <font color="#789922">>Bitcoiners share a lot of the values we do</font>... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e23b5eef1d59baa0bc0fbe7bd5752c4eb839d2bc>)
15:52:08 <naphtha[m]> i think its a dendrite thing
15:52:09 <naphtha[m]> no?
15:52:52 <naphtha[m]> all your messages are sent as html which also fucks up my matrix-revolt bridge 😾
15:53:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> spirobel[m]: > <@spirobel:monero.social> 
15:53:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> > no. I talked to bitcoiners IRL and they very much respected Monero and had similar attitudes about crypto anarchism. But they just didnt know about privacy enough and werent that technical. Many have the same values, just didnt go down the rabbit hole deep enough. We just need to guide them along the path. 
15:53:11 <k4r4b3y[m]> again, quite a blanket statement. I also talk to "local bitcoiners in my area", and let me tell you, they would rather have the 1984-style big State prevail rather than see Monero win.
15:55:08 <k4r4b3y[m]> There is quite a sizeable Bitcoiners who would work against Monero being successful in its mission statement, given, if Bitcoin would fail in its own (being NGU forever, muh le global reserve or whatever)
15:55:15 <scragglez[m]> <recanman[m]> "There is betcrypto.cr but that..." <- how long has it been in dev? their twitter seems ded
15:56:33 <recanman[m]> scragglez[m]: They contacted me in January. I don't know if it is in development.
15:58:52 <k4r4b3y[m]> anyways, I just disagree with the sentiment that (I paraphrase) "we have to win bitcoiners over by doing something [especially for them]". If they want to use Monero and see value in it, they will (should) come (in their own volition).
15:59:03 <recanman[m]> @betcrypto.cr:matrix.org
15:59:16 <k4r4b3y[m]> *by their own volition
15:59:38 <naphtha[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> anyways, I just disagree with the sentiment that (I paraphrase) "we have to win bitcoiners over by doing something [especially for them]". If they want to use Monero and see value in it, they will (should) come (in their own volition).
15:59:38 <naphtha[m]> > 
15:59:38 <naphtha[m]> so much this
15:59:45 <naphtha[m]> i tip my fedora to you my good sir
15:59:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> fr fr bru
16:00:18 <k4r4b3y[m]> naphtha[m]: > <@naphtha:kyun.host> i tip my fedora to you my good sir
16:00:18 <k4r4b3y[m]> real recognize real. I wish you success with Kyun
16:00:25 <naphtha[m]> 🫡
16:00:32 <naphtha[m]> why do we care about what bitcoiners think anywayys
16:00:39 <naphtha[m]> 99% of them dont even care about crypto
16:00:46 <naphtha[m]> or anti censorship
16:00:47 <naphtha[m]> or privacy
16:01:14 <naphtha[m]> they just heard in the news that some nerds became millionaires because they got lucky back in 2016 and 2020
16:01:35 <naphtha[m]> and FOMO kicked in
16:01:57 <recanman[m]> Satoshi's purpose of a digital currency is Monero.
16:02:15 <k4r4b3y[m]> naphtha[m]: > <@naphtha:kyun.host> they just heard in the news that some nerds became millionaires because they got lucky back in 2016 and 2020
16:02:15 <k4r4b3y[m]> there is also some current of bitcoiners who live and breathe on the "power of positive thinking" grift. "If we repeat the message BTC goes up forever, it will become true!!"
16:02:32 <naphtha[m]> yep
16:02:32 <k4r4b3y[m]> recanman[m]: > <@recanman:agoradesk.com> Satoshi's purpose of a digital currency is Monero.
16:02:32 <k4r4b3y[m]> he has certainly signaled towards what monero is today
16:02:40 <recanman[m]> He did not consider the extreme advances in statistical analysis, and it is not his fault. I don't believe anyone would have considered that.
16:03:05 <naphtha[m]> monero isnt an investment
16:03:07 <naphtha[m]> its a currency
16:03:09 <naphtha[m]> THE currency
16:03:10 <recanman[m]> Even the concept of him using a fake name, still cypherpunk-like
16:03:36 <naphtha[m]> the people that actually cared about crypto as in the technology already moved to monero
16:03:45 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: Do you run kyun.host?
16:03:50 <naphtha[m]> recanman[m]: yes
16:03:53 <recanman[m]> Just noticed your localpart is kyun.host
16:04:11 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: Your VPS service is awesome, I have recommended it to a couple.
16:04:23 <recanman[m]> Cheap, performant, and anonymous.
16:04:25 <naphtha[m]> thank you, appreciate it
16:04:33 <naphtha[m]> recanman[m]: thats the goal
16:04:42 <naphtha[m]> its just getting started
16:04:46 <k4r4b3y[m]> naphtha[m]: > <@naphtha:kyun.host> monero isnt an investment
16:04:46 <k4r4b3y[m]> I try to buy as much Monero as possible, but certainly not so that in 5 years we will suck off the regulators so that they will allow Monero to be listed on exchanges or whatever.
16:05:30 <naphtha[m]> monero is just the safest way to store your money
16:05:33 <recanman[m]> Would do the same if my ISP did not suck. I have 400mbps down/10mbps up, $80 a month with their (((offers))), no fiber or gigabit or anything in my area.
16:05:37 <naphtha[m]> its still not an investment
16:07:07 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: I always thought that things like these were just coming from obvious shills, but you are indeed correct about the majority of the userbase being politically and technologically-aligned.
16:07:12 <naphtha[m]> put your money in the bank, the bank or government can seize your money for bullshit reasons at any point. put your money in cash, someone steals it/you lose it in divorce/other legal bullshit. put your money in monero, you lose it in a skydiving accident
16:07:43 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: Cash is paper, that is the thing. It is based on an arbitrary measurement set by the feds. Where is the value?
16:07:52 <recanman[m]> The value is only set in its usability in the economy.
16:07:58 <recanman[m]> Once CBDC goes live, cash will be phased out.
16:08:15 <recanman[m]> recanman[m]: They are already preparing people with their subliminal psyops everyone.
16:08:22 <k4r4b3y[m]> Put your money in bitcoin. And it will get delisted, whitelisted, blacklisted, KYC'ed, IOU'ed, taxed, regulated, de-toothed, and de-fanged, adn debauched...
16:08:37 <k4r4b3y[m]> but hey it is infinity/2mil, right? /s
16:08:57 <recanman[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: Bitcoin would be great if what you said didn't happen.
16:09:22 <naphtha[m]> recanman[m]: applies to things that actually have objective real world value like silver or gold
16:09:26 <recanman[m]> But allowing the anarchy of mathematics and decentralization opens up opportunities for adversaries to compromise it, and it isn't necessarily wrong.
16:09:29 <k4r4b3y[m]> we certainly don't live in a perfect worl
16:09:29 <naphtha[m]> silver or gold can be seized too
16:09:31 <k4r4b3y[m]> world*
16:09:46 <recanman[m]> recanman[m]: They have the right to do it, and we have the rights to work on our own projects that fight back.
16:10:18 <k4r4b3y[m]> recanman[m]: > <@recanman:agoradesk.com> 
16:10:19 <k4r4b3y[m]> > They have the right to do it, and we have the rights to work on our own projects that fight back.
16:10:19 <k4r4b3y[m]> whoever's more powerful..
16:10:37 <recanman[m]> Exactly
16:11:06 <recanman[m]> That is the thing that is preventing us, which is why I am going into cryptography and data science
16:11:11 <naphtha[m]> i really cant see how monero can be compromised at this point
16:11:18 <k4r4b3y[m]> recanman[m]: > <@recanman:agoradesk.com> Exactly
16:11:18 <k4r4b3y[m]> I for one welcome this nietzschean will to power
16:11:33 <naphtha[m]> wasnt there like a 10 mil usd bounty from the irs for any solution that compromised monero?
16:11:33 <spirobel[m]> <k4r4b3y[m]> "anyways, I just disagree with..." <- I dont think you will  get anywhere with this "I am a Moneroer debate me!" attitude. And this "they can come by themselves if they want" is also not going to work. 
16:12:17 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: The bigger the codebase, the more points for attack usually. The community is so "smart" (for lack of a better term), that they are able to normalize this and keep everything good.
16:12:20 <recanman[m]> I will go now, goodbye.
16:12:27 <k4r4b3y[m]> spirobel[m]: > <@spirobel:monero.social> 
16:12:27 <k4r4b3y[m]> > I dont think you will  get anywhere with this "I am a Moneroer debate me!" attitude. And this "they can come by themselves if they want" is also not going to work. 
16:12:27 <k4r4b3y[m]> I am not saying bitcoiners should debate me (so that I can win them over by playing mind games, playing aloof, etc.). I am saying the bitcoiners' desires with respect to monero are IRRELEVANT.
16:13:11 <naphtha[m]> recanman[m]: thats true for the actual software implementation, monerod, not for the underlying cryptography
16:14:45 <recanman[m]> Exactly
16:15:05 <recanman[m]> This is where cryptocurrency differs than a normal foss project
16:15:27 <recanman[m]> There is a standard for implementation, rather than abstraction and adding new functionality.
16:16:39 <naphtha[m]> i just wish the codebase was rewritten so it would be easier to understand and work on (and detect bugs ahead of time)
16:16:53 <naphtha[m]> nothing to do with the actual security of monero just would be nice
16:17:11 <naphtha[m]> from my experience working with mathematicians they really don't write the best code
16:17:25 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: kek
16:17:54 <recanman[m]> Today was my first day talking to a mathematician/statistician, rucknium
16:18:31 <recanman[m]> The nice thing here is that even if I don't understand much, these people are still willing to explain. 
16:18:34 <k4r4b3y[m]> naphtha[m]: > <@naphtha:kyun.host> i just wish the codebase was rewritten so it would be easier to understand and work on (and detect bugs ahead of time)
16:18:34 <k4r4b3y[m]> I suppose "Seraphis Fixes This" ?
16:19:33 <naphtha[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net>  just wish the codebase was rewritten so it would be easier to understand and work on (and detect bugs ahead of time)
16:19:33 <naphtha[m]> > I suppose "Seraphis Fixes This" ?
16:19:33 <naphtha[m]> > 
16:19:33 <naphtha[m]> maybe i hope so
16:25:21 <Rucknium[m]> Mathematicians don't write Monero's code. You can check git blame
16:26:26 <Rucknium[m]> rbrunner can explain how much Seraphis will be a re-write of Monero's code (I think most of the wallet will be re-written)
16:27:15 <louissignet[m]> Bitcoiners are Statecoiners at this point
16:27:31 <louissignet[m]> It still serves a very important purpose though
16:27:46 <louissignet[m]> It's easy to onboard normies into Bitcoin. Easy to convince your mom on it.
16:27:52 <k4r4b3y[m]> louissignet[m]: > <@louis.signet:monero.social> It still serves a very important purpose though
16:27:52 <k4r4b3y[m]> which purpose, if I may ask?
16:28:15 <spirobel[m]> louissignet[m]: that is a  blanket statement
16:28:16 <louissignet[m]> It's a natural pathway to Monero
16:28:18 <spirobel[m]> some are like this for sure
16:28:20 <spirobel[m]> but not all
16:28:24 <k4r4b3y[m]> louissignet[m]: > <@louis.signet:monero.social> It's easy to onboard normies into Bitcoin. Easy to convince your mom on it.
16:28:24 <k4r4b3y[m]> Easy? With the current state of the Mempool?
16:28:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> louissignet[m]: Not really
16:29:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> louissignet[m]: > <@louis.signet:monero.social> It's a natural pathway to Monero
16:29:09 <k4r4b3y[m]> I am seeing more and more anons recommending using LTC as the "gateway drug" to Monero. Which I can't help but agree nowadays.
16:29:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> It doesnt work
16:29:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> If it worked like ltc, maybe. But when you need to babysit the mempool and choose fees wisely or risk having your tx fail outright, lol
16:30:02 <k4r4b3y[m]> btc is good purely for speculation. It has assumed its final form: a ponzi.
16:30:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> 550k max tx/day is like "yeah, 1/10th of the moms in california"
16:30:05 <louissignet[m]> Yep still easy, they have like a million easy to use custodial solutions. No different than paypal. My point is not in favor of this just noting a fact that BTC serves the purpose of onboarding normies.
16:30:36 <louissignet[m]> Greed is the natural way humans get into crypto
16:30:42 <louissignet[m]> Once inside they can discover the cypherpunk ideals
16:30:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> louissignet[m]: Thats not onboarding 
16:30:58 <k4r4b3y[m]> what is this, naturalistic fallacy?
16:31:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Using binance as your wallet is not using btc
16:31:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Using wallet of satoshi is not using btccccc
16:31:47 <louissignet[m]> Potatoes, potatos. Just a matter of semantics.
16:32:14 <louissignet[m]> My sister got into crypto through binance. She does own a non-custodial wallet now. But only after a year later!
16:32:32 <louissignet[m]> Everyones journey is different
16:32:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Does she USE crypto?
16:32:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or doe she invest in shitcoins and nfts like eth and btc respectively
16:33:07 <louissignet[m]> Sure, she sent me money to Argentina where it's impossible to send transfers
16:33:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Potatos tomatos
16:33:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> louissignet[m]: "money"?
16:33:29 <louissignet[m]> Again, potato potatoes
16:33:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or an nft with a value attached to it 
16:33:45 <k4r4b3y[m]> louissignet[m]: > <@louis.signet:monero.social> Everyones journey is different
16:33:45 <k4r4b3y[m]> what's your point? I do not follow. Is it that onboarding normies through KYC and/or custodial onramps is (can be) good? Or, is it that bitcoin is (can be) an onramp to Monero?
16:33:50 <louissignet[m]> She pretty much only buys btc and eth like 90% of people do
16:33:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> I can send you a package of rice that you can sell. Is that money?
16:34:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> louissignet[m]: So she doesnt use money
16:34:03 <louissignet[m]> k4r4b3y[m]: Both are true
16:34:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> She uses bags of rice 
16:34:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> The wrong tool for the job 
16:34:35 <louissignet[m]> Depends, can you? Is it easy to liquidate and is it widely accepted? Maybe
16:34:47 <louissignet[m]> I hear sending packages to Argentina is a customs nightmare
16:35:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> I hear btc cant scale to more than 550k tx/day and is already at its limit
16:35:36 <louissignet[m]> If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it just may be a duck.
16:35:39 <louissignet[m]> money*
16:35:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> louissignet[m]: > <@louis.signet:monero.social> 
16:35:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> > Both are true
16:35:55 <k4r4b3y[m]> It is my observation that most of the normies that we loove to onboard on crypto (in order to make them footsoldiers of our crypto-anarchistic stuggle) via the KYC/custodial onramps, _stay_ on the KYC/custodial onramps. People such as your sister are a minority among the lazy majority that likes the comfort of a customer service to call to.
16:35:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right? Ans it looks like a rock, quacks like a rock, and is held like a diamond
16:37:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> "why do you buy btc" or "why do you buy eth"
16:37:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> honest answers only
16:37:15 <louissignet[m]> greed
16:37:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> And dont tell me you choose a butter knife to go hunting, when there are hunting knives 
16:37:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> NGU 
16:37:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> On coins with BROKEN tokenomics 
16:37:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like. Lol? Use your head a little bit
16:38:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bitcoin as we know it, is a failed system
16:38:07 <louissignet[m]> We hold different things for different reasons. We are not all monolothic in thinking. And that's okey.
16:38:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> And if it changes, its not "bitcoin"
16:38:29 <louissignet[m]> I still believe that Bitcoin failed, I'm still gonna extract value from Blackrock and other institutions piling on.
16:38:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bitcoin is supoosed to be money. Its not
16:38:37 <louissignet[m]> I'll just turn those sats into neros
16:38:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its a centralization of power in a trace and trackable manner 
16:38:53 <louissignet[m]> It all depends on how you use it
16:38:57 <louissignet[m]> I use it as a ponzi
16:39:30 <k4r4b3y[m]> That's OK to hold different thoughts, yes. But here, I guess what we strive to do is discuss and maybe see rational inconsistencies behind the thoughts we hold. I do not think it is OK to hold an inconsistent system of thinking in my head.
16:39:47 <k4r4b3y[m]> louissignet[m]: > <@louis.signet:monero.social> I use it as a ponzi
16:39:47 <k4r4b3y[m]> based degen
16:40:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> "All else being equal, supply, network security, value. would you rather have 1 btc or 0.9 btc and 1 xmr?"
16:40:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats all i say to my btc peers
16:40:34 <louissignet[m]> That would assume you are 100% certain of your thinking. I always assume there's a chance I'm wrong that's why I can hold multiple inconsistent thoughts on my head.
16:40:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> 0.99
16:40:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> louissignet[m]: You cant speculate on math
16:41:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its math
16:41:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> And btc didnt fail as a cult. It failed the math
16:41:58 <k4r4b3y[m]> louissignet[m]: > <@louis.signet:monero.social> That would assume you are 100% certain of your thinking. I always assume there's a chance I'm wrong that's why I can hold multiple inconsistent thoughts on my head.
16:41:58 <k4r4b3y[m]> I am not certain of my thinking, that's why I constantly re-scan them with oncoming new information from the outside. What I do not do is playing the off-hand remark "we can all believe in different things", yes we can, but what is our aim, then?
16:42:23 <louissignet[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Agreed. That's why I'm still long on the cult, short on the system.
16:42:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im short in the cult
16:42:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> I want to believe people are mostly all retarded 
16:42:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Arent*
16:42:59 <louissignet[m]> Not super long, but also not shorting the cult. It may be dangerous
16:43:16 <louissignet[m]> for my. bags anyway*
16:43:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, in practice im with you
16:43:41 <k4r4b3y[m]> @ofrnxmr:monero.social that's a risky bet bro
16:44:22 <ofrnxmr[m]>  But in spirit, its pathetic being able to piggy back with the abusers to take advantage kf the cults blindness
16:44:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> So i dont like it.. my bags never discriminated though
16:48:05 * louissignet[m] uploaded an image: (2689KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/LouGWtjmiZhEJrqcYPIhOtpu/ima_4670b26.png >
16:48:06 <louissignet[m]> Lmao very relevant to the discussion
16:48:42 <k4r4b3y[m]> louissignet[m]: > <@louis.signet:monero.social> sent an image.
16:48:42 <k4r4b3y[m]> lol
16:50:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> I probably went 2 > 6 > 9
17:12:50 <agentsmith09[m]> sorry guys still cen't find out the right way to run monero-wallet-rpc
17:12:50 <agentsmith09[m]> i tried:
17:12:50 <agentsmith09[m]> 1)run monerod
17:12:50 <agentsmith09[m]> ./monerod --stagenet --offline --rpc-bind-port 28080
17:12:59 <agentsmith09[m]>  * 
17:24:01 <agentsmith09[m]> sorry guys still cen't find out the right way to run monero-wallet-rpc... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/4c914d9f52144ee47b7f4827f14369b9535c8595>)
17:26:13 <naphtha[m]> agentsmith09[m]: > <@agentsmith09:matrix.org> sorry guys still cen't find out the right way to run monero-wallet-rpc... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/f6760699940ed4d8d7609dd310c6163c66edeea1>)
17:26:19 <naphtha[m]> you cant run 2 programs on the same port
17:27:46 <agentsmith09[m]> so monerod on 28080 and -wallet-rpc on 28081 and python interact with 28081? OK
17:27:52 <naphtha[m]> yes
17:29:04 <Rucknium[m]> agentsmith09: Using monerod in offline mode may mess up wallet-rpc
17:29:25 <Rucknium[m]> wallet-rpc wants to know that it is using up-to-date info.
17:29:36 <agentsmith09[m]> Rucknium[m]: i was guessing it...
17:29:36 <agentsmith09[m]> shloud i have to download testnet blockchain?
17:30:07 <Rucknium[m]> How will you do anything with wallet-rpc without any blockchain data?
17:30:32 <agentsmith09[m]> Rucknium[m]: make sense
17:34:04 <naphtha[m]> agentsmith09[m]: > <@agentsmith09:matrix.org> i was guessing it...
17:34:04 <naphtha[m]> > shloud i have to download testnet blockchain?
17:34:04 <naphtha[m]> testnet is for testing new monero features iirc
17:34:30 <naphtha[m]> for testing the current features not on the main network you should use stagenet
17:34:49 <naphtha[m]> s/not/outside/, s/on/of/
17:35:02 <naphtha[m]>  * for a test environment using the current features outside of the main network you should use stagenet
17:39:37 <agentsmith09[m]> <naphtha[m]> "for testing the current features..." <- so if i need to test basic monero features i should use stagenet? but i still need to download testnet bockchain right running monerod --testnet and it start downloading? or there is a stagenet blockchain to download??
17:46:23 <naphtha[m]> <agentsmith09[m]> "so if i need to test basic..." <- just run monerod --stagenet
17:46:24 <naphtha[m]> it will download the stagenet blockchain
17:46:24 <naphtha[m]> you can also solo mine using monerod on stagenet
17:46:24 <naphtha[m]> to get some coins to play with
17:48:48 <recanman[m]> <rbrunner> "Direct download link: https://..." <- This is some awesome Monero propaganda. I don't own a screen-reader device but I just wanted to say that this is pretty cool.
17:50:01 <agentsmith09[m]> naphtha[m]: ok
18:15:43 <rbrunner> recanman[m]: Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, I hope that I reach a few people more with the e-book than with just posting links to the stories on Reddit.