00:26:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Press 1 for more info
00:26:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Press 2 for less
00:26:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Press 3 to hang up
05:14:13 <monerobull[m]> <TrasherDK[m]> "monerobull: https://monero.town/..." <- ?
05:15:36 <monerobull[m]> Did you create an account on town before or was that perhaps still on .house ?
05:18:07 <TrasherDK[m]> monerobull: On .town
05:21:29 <monerobull[m]> weird, cant find an application for TrasherDK
05:22:20 <monerobull[m]> When did you sign up?
05:22:52 <TrasherDK[m]> Jun 15, 2023Jun 15, 2023
05:26:51 <monerobull[m]> Hm can't find the application :|
05:27:41 <monerobull[m]> It also shouldn't have been lost during some upgrade since plenty of people registered on the same day show up and are actively using the site
05:29:25 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Got censored ! 
05:29:33 <monerobull[m]> Kek
05:34:26 <monerobull[m]> Sorry I can't help more with this, I'd say make a new account :/
05:58:00 <TrasherDK[m]> Did a new signup - TrasherDK
06:02:26 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> please tick box to prove you not a bot ⏹️
06:17:36 <monerobull[m]> <TrasherDK[m]> "Did a new signup - TrasherDK" <- approves
06:17:38 <monerobull[m]> > <@trasherdk:monero.social> Did a new signup - TrasherDK
06:17:38 <monerobull[m]>  * approved
06:17:56 <monerobull[m]> <DanrdarkIsnotthe> "please tick box to prove you not..." <- captcha is gone with new lemmy version 😭
06:21:37 <TrasherDK[m]> monerobull: And I'm in 👍️
06:24:38 <TrasherDK[m]> Uploading Avatar: SyntaxError: JSON.parse: unexpected character at line 1 column 1 of the JSON data Not quite there yet 😬
06:30:57 <monerobull[m]> image too big?
06:31:01 <monerobull[m]> needs to be sub 1 mb
06:31:43 <monerobull[m]> TrasherDK: 
06:33:52 * TrasherDK[m] uploaded an image: (27KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/kIKkWSJiipytgBqWxKojJPir/image.png >
06:35:33 <TrasherDK[m]> monerobull: 23Kb 
06:40:32 <monerobull[m]> Hm
06:49:24 <monerobull[m]> Ah
06:50:08 <monerobull[m]> Select a language when editing your profile. Best is "undetermined" when holding control you can also select multiple.
06:50:11 <monerobull[m]> TrasherDK: 
06:55:04 <TrasherDK[m]> Undetermined and English is selected. I'm pretty sure my .png is in no particular language 😇
06:56:25 <ShaneonConduitrs> <monerobull[m]> "captcha is gone with new lemmy..." <- good, fuck captchas!~
06:58:34 <tiberiusmaximus[> If I run a monero node on the same device as a bitcoin node, can the monero node be deanonymized by the bitcoin node?
06:58:44 <monerobull[m]> TrasherDK[m]: So still doesn't work?
06:59:02 <monerobull[m]> Like, edit profile, upload pic, select language, save
06:59:15 <TrasherDK[m]> I tried with a 10KB image. Same error.
07:02:46 <monerobull[m]> Restarted containers, try again
07:03:05 <monerobull[m]> Also, try converting to PNG before upload and see if that works
07:03:57 <TrasherDK[m]> It's working now. They were .png always.
07:04:11 <monerobull[m]> Alright
07:04:29 <monerobull[m]> New Foss software am I right 
07:05:00 <TrasherDK[m]> Docker is crap.
07:08:32 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> operator error
07:23:07 <ShaneonConduitrs> <TrasherDK[m]> "Docker is crap." <- +1
07:23:21 <ShaneonConduitrs> use the nixos yough luke skywalkerrr
07:39:17 <devaux[m]> Docker is nice
07:39:44 <devaux[m]> Podman, too
12:04:29 <naphtha[m]> donations from reiya.io have been sent to relay operators yesterday
12:04:30 <naphtha[m]> 🫡
12:14:18 <plowsof11> are there and publicly posted monero addresses of from the relay operators with payment proofs posted?
12:16:41 <plowsof11> https://reiya.io/enroll interesting 
12:18:13 <naphtha[m]> plowsof11: i'm working on an update for the transactions page that will show every transaction in detail along with the txid
12:18:21 <naphtha[m]> but for now the view key and key images are public
12:25:15 <naphtha[m]> https://reiya.io/audit
12:29:23 <plowsof11> payment proofs are the missing link to prove that payments have been made to a specific address (the audit will only prove that funds where received and sent 'out')
12:31:30 <plowsof11> i could be wrong though? 
12:32:07 <plowsof11> a feature request, but the enrolling (simply putting an xmr address in the torrc contact info is very simple, nice)
12:33:41 <plowsof11> i like the OutProofs of feather wallet https://docs.featherwallet.org/guides/verify-tx-proof
12:33:43 <naphtha[m]> don't the key images have the destination address embedded?
12:38:51 <plowsof11> i do not know, (i assumed not) checking with the GF wallet https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/11fslu9/monero_general_fund_transparency_report_march_2023/
12:47:24 <naphtha[m]> wow
12:47:31 <naphtha[m]> 1.3 million euro in the gf wallete
12:47:43 <naphtha[m]> s/wallete/wallet/
12:49:53 <anarkiocrypto[m]> You could post the TXID and TX key (TX proof/secret key) for each transaction and users could verify it here: https://xmrchain.net/ (Enter TXID, click "Prove sending" and enter the node operator's address and the TX key.) Then users don't need to sync a view-only wallet or deal with key images.
12:51:16 <ShaneonConduitrs> <naphtha[m]> "donations from reiya.io have..." <- didn't get any money 🤔
12:51:24 <ShaneonConduitrs> oh onion relays are not monero
12:51:26 <ShaneonConduitrs> mb
12:52:39 <plowsof11> i think you need wownero in your life then (wownero node operators can put their donation address in the get_info page) 
12:58:35 <plowsof11> ignore^ my wownero nodes have fell behind / network split again 
13:40:21 <suitslie[m]> <naphtha[m]> "1.3 million euro in the gf..." <- yes but like if you think about it it's not that much when it comes to dev work, as an example
13:40:22 <suitslie[m]> if you want to fund some projects, many of those seem to be in 6 figure range for a period of under half a year usually (which is a liberal bound), so you can calculate how many months for how many devs that it is, it is not a lot
13:40:22 <suitslie[m]> furthermore, if you check the post you will see that one donator specifically sent money such that the domain monero.org is acquired, and there was no agreement on this so he might just ask for a refund
13:41:11 <suitslie[m]> or sorry
13:41:12 <suitslie[m]> monero.com
13:42:30 <naphtha[m]> <anarkiocrypt> "You could post the TXID and TX..." <- thanks, will do. btw, someone linked your article proposing the same exact idea in the first reddit thread i made, what do you think of reiya? do you think anything could be improved?
13:56:22 <naphtha[m]> <suitslie[m]> "yes but like if you think..." <- > <@suitslie:hackliberty.org> yes but like if you think about it it's not that much when it comes to dev work, as an example... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/96e53128bd9dd102cc0e562c233891135fd07cdd>)
13:56:59 <suitslie[m]> naphtha[m]: im just saying what the thread said
13:57:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont do refunds
14:15:48 <naphtha[m]> does anyone know monerobull's main?
14:16:08 <monerobull[m]> what
14:16:14 <naphtha[m]> ah
14:16:22 <naphtha[m]> i bought a plushie from monerosupplies
14:16:30 <naphtha[m]> and i havent received anything on my mail yet
14:16:35 <naphtha[m]> just wanted to make sure you got the order
14:16:40 <monerobull[m]> today?
14:16:44 <naphtha[m]> yeah
14:16:50 <monerobull[m]> ive seen someone order one yeah
14:17:07 <monerobull[m]> will ship it later today
14:17:15 <naphtha[m]> alright man thanks
14:17:43 <monerobull[m]> Thank you for ordering a plushie <3
14:19:27 <naphtha[m]> also dont you need my phone number for delivery?
14:19:32 <naphtha[m]> since youre shipping via dhl
14:19:49 <monerobull[m]> do i? 
14:19:54 <naphtha[m]> i've had a german friend send me something before and it arrived throuugh a courier
14:20:08 <naphtha[m]> not the post
14:20:33 <monerobull[m]> ive had basically all delivered without a phone number so far
14:20:43 <naphtha[m]> ah alright then
14:21:01 <naphtha[m]> they'll probably know who to call anyways since i've had things shipped before
14:23:54 <anarkiocrypto[m]> > what do you think of reiya? do you think anything could be improved?
14:23:54 <anarkiocrypto[m]> It looks perfect to me. I like how you scraped the donation addresses from the ContactInfo field. It's efficient, a good way to verify that the node is theirs, and bootstraps the pool of participating nodes.
14:23:54 <anarkiocrypto[m]> A future suggestion may be a bounty for home nodes vs. nodes in over-saturated data centers (Hetzner, DigitalOcean, etc., you can check if the node IP resolves to a known data center), and a bounty for exit nodes vs. relay nodes. Maybe exit nodes could receive +25% extra.
14:23:54 <anarkiocrypto[m]> It seems like marketing is often the most difficult part for a project, but there are already some donations, which is good to see. Maybe you could post it in /r/tor, #anonymity:matrix.anonymousplanet.org, Dread, etc.
14:24:48 <naphtha[m]> yes i'm planning to add a traffic multiplier to residential IPs and exit nodes
14:24:53 <naphtha[m]> i posted in r/tor and got called an idiot
14:24:54 <naphtha[m]> and a scammer
14:25:01 <naphtha[m]> * a scammer by someone from the tor project
14:26:23 <naphtha[m]> https://libreddit.de/r/TOR/comments/14b15i8/announcing_reiya_anonymous_tor_relay_crowdfunding/jofx8ov/?context=3
14:26:34 <naphtha[m]> https://libreddit.de/r/TOR/comments/14b15i8/announcing_reiya_anonymous_tor_relay_crowdfunding/jofl2um/?context=3
14:26:48 <naphtha[m]> this guy tried to remove my post in r/monero too
14:26:57 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Sad to hear... I am used to mainstream subreddits calling anything related to crypto a "scam" (and saying "why can't you use banking instead" even though I have no access to banking) but surprising to hear it from the Tor Project. Hopefully it isn't going the same way as Wikipedia (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Stop_accepting_cryptocurrency_donations) and Mozilla...
14:28:09 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Dread is mainly script kiddies, teenagers who want fake ID to buy alcohol, and college students who want to buy weed, but maybe there would be some people who would appreciate Reiya. I don't know Dread's exact URL, but you could find it here: https://dark.fail
14:29:05 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Will look at the thread. It seems libreddit.de doesn't work for me anymore, but libreddit.hu works.
14:30:44 <Siren[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: Wtf are these supporting arguments on that wikipedia request? People wanna get fucked over and oppressed this much. Crazy.
14:32:21 <naphtha[m]> my damn internet went down so i havee to resend my mesesages
14:32:46 <naphtha[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: dread's main mirror is basically always down but you can get your own dread onion from bohemia
14:33:12 <naphtha[m]> it's really sad how the tor project reacted
14:33:25 <naphtha[m]> like i said in my thread on r/monero they receive millions a year from the us government
14:33:34 <naphtha[m]> and so far have done pretty much nothing in helping the relay operators
14:33:43 <anarkiocrypto[m]> "crankyoldtekhead" has similar views as (often Western) citizens who have access to banking and don't "need" crypto... It is strange when this comes from liberals/progressives, who claim to support equality and inclusion, but are actively sabotaging unbanked and undocumented people (as well as people who urgently need privacy, such as activists and victims of abuse), by taking away the one online payment method that doesn't require gove
14:33:43 <anarkiocrypto[m]> by mail is rarely accepted, cash deposits and money orders require ID in the EU, prepaid Visa cards aren't sold in the EU anymore, so there is literally no alternative for online payments).
14:33:54 <naphtha[m]> other than listing the organizations hosting relays somewhere hidden deep in their website
14:36:34 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Fortunately the Tor network is still decentralized, so anyone can run a relay or receive Monero donations. Although there was a strange case where the Tor project required a video call from someone who was generously operating many relays...
14:37:40 <anarkiocrypto[m]> https://libreddit.hu/r/TOR/comments/v8nmdp/tor_relay_family_100_servers_blocked_for_refusing/ It was not government ID KYC, but video calls are also dangerous and deanonymizing, especially for operators who may be taking a risk by operating their nodes...
14:38:00 <naphtha[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: lol
14:38:04 <naphtha[m]> thats sad
14:38:35 <naphtha[m]> i mean im sure they have their reasons, sybil attacks are a thing and all but that's an extremely retarded way of dealing with things
14:40:29 <Siren[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: It's kinda centralized here https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#search/flag:authority
14:40:37 <anarkiocrypto[m]> There are many other ways to trust people, rather than doxxing their appearance, voice and location. Anonymity can save lives. It allows free speech, without a risk of physical violence or imprisonment. Doxxing your appearance destroys this defense.
14:41:50 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I miss when the internet was just usernames/avatars/words on a screen, with no one demanding to know your real life appearance, voice or location. People were judged on their words and character alone. It was even encouraged to invent a username, rather than post all details of your private life online, for everyone and anyone to see.
14:42:41 <spirobel[m]> <anarkiocrypto[m]> ""crankyoldtekhead" has similar..." <- It is because deep down liberals/progressive dont care. They just want to be seen as helping the people that are low in the oppression hierarchy so they can get political power. They dont want to solve the actual problems, because that would mean they would lose their savior role. That is their source of identity and power so they can never give that up. Effective altruism is a
14:42:41 <spirobel[m]> similar thing but turned up to the max. 
14:48:07 <Siren[m]> <spirobel[m]> "It is because deep down liberals..." <- It's not about politics. It all boils down to how educated people are.
14:48:09 <naphtha[m]> <anarkiocrypto[m]> "I miss when the internet was..." <- you're kinda preaching to the choir here
14:48:13 <naphtha[m]> or whatever the saying was
14:48:18 <naphtha[m]> we're all mostly pseudonymous here
14:48:41 <naphtha[m]> Siren[m]: but it is about politics, i've seen this mostly in people with higher education
14:48:52 <naphtha[m]> education has nothing to do with how good of a person you are
14:49:26 <Siren[m]> naphtha[m]: Education not as in academics. As in how well do you know about the current financial system we live in.
14:50:16 <Siren[m]> Many people don't experience oppression by it
14:50:27 <naphtha[m]> you're right in this case but i think his point was about the virtue signaling "progressives" LOOOVE to do
14:51:23 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: They simply don't know what can possibly happen to them
14:51:30 <naphtha[m]> <Siren[m]> "It's kinda centralized here..." <- right, tor is not really decentralized as the tor project has the authority to block any relay from ever being used
14:51:39 <Siren[m]> Yep exactly
14:52:07 <naphtha[m]> tor could be made even better
14:52:14 <naphtha[m]> just take the control away from the tor project
14:52:35 <naphtha[m]> the tools they use for finding sybils are public
14:52:43 <naphtha[m]> the code is public
14:52:45 <naphtha[m]> the data is public
14:53:36 <anarkiocrypto[m]> > we're all mostly pseudonymous here
14:53:36 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I agree mostly, but it seems like even in privacy communities, there is an emphasis on voice chat/podcasts. If you can't fake a generic American/British accent (sadly I can't), voice chat can doxx your location, as well as allow people who know you in real life to identify you as the podcast guest. In addition, I have never lived in an apartment with soundproofing. Neighbors could clearly hear what you are saying. Whereas text chat has 
14:55:02 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Maybe it would be necessary in the future to fork Tor and build up an alternative network of nodes. Monero donations could help a lot as an incentive. But this is a large and potentially difficult project
14:55:35 <Siren[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: > <@anarkiocrypto:matrix.org> > we're all mostly pseudonymous here... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/972a3441f1cf893bfea6e18e972d8a8ca9b5f18d>)
14:56:49 <naphtha[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: > <@anarkiocrypto:matrix.org> > we're all mostly pseudonymous here... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/1c160165c322e6fad905bb0015662868c9262e54>)
14:56:56 <naphtha[m]> with ai tts
14:57:16 <naphtha[m]> of course, ran locally
14:58:14 <Siren[m]> Monero voicechat but we all use espeak
14:59:04 <naphtha[m]> i imagine a future where voice calls are all transcribed into text and transmitted that way
14:59:07 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Neighbors don't hear your text messages, if you write in English long enough you eventually sound closer to a native speaker (in my experience), and people who know you in real life can't coincidentally listen to the podcast and think "I know this guy". Text also doesn't doxx your age or gender (in English anyway). As it is sadly illegal for me to be alive, there is more risk in my case, than someone who e.g. writes guides on how to ins
14:59:09 <naphtha[m]> with tts on the client side
14:59:14 <naphtha[m]> the compression ratio would be insane
14:59:50 <naphtha[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: is it illegal to not have id? who will they charge? lol
15:00:33 <Siren[m]> naphtha[m]: You don't have rights if you're stateless
15:00:43 <spirobel[m]> <Siren[m]> "Many people don't experience..." <- they can clearly see the oppression. But they dont want actual solutions. They want to be seen as the saviors. That is how status games work in progressive circles. There is a competition on who can find the most oppressed person and be seen as helping them. I doubt there is any way to "educate them". The only chance to change the negative reaction these circles have to crypto is to make it
15:00:43 <spirobel[m]> so crypto becomes embedded in these status games. Like: organize a fundraiser for the oppressed with crypto to raise your social status among your progressive peers.
15:00:44 <Siren[m]> It's a horrible situation to be in
15:00:49 <naphtha[m]> you also don't have obligations
15:00:52 <naphtha[m]> get a gun 👍️
15:01:35 <naphtha[m]> spirobel[m]: the last thing i want is for those people to infiltrate monero
15:01:37 <naphtha[m]> no thanks
15:01:48 <anarkiocrypto[m]> It is considered as "illegal immigration" if you don't have a passport and visa. And the state imprisons people without ID indefinitely, as it is impossible to "prove their identity". More info here: https://index.statelessness.eu especially under "Detention". It is less about lacking the physical plastic card, but more about lacking the database entry. If you just don't have the card, the state can search for your name/photo/fingerprin
15:01:48 <anarkiocrypto[m]> and see your entry. If you don't have an entry, you are detained.
15:02:13 <naphtha[m]> naphtha[m]: they're all lazy as shit and would contribute nothing, only making the community toxic and larping as le ebin communists
15:02:37 <naphtha[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: damn
15:02:46 <naphtha[m]> did you never run into a cop asking you for id?
15:03:12 <anarkiocrypto[m]> The worst part is that it is based on your circumstances of birth, not your actions as an adult. There is no way to register yourself as an adult. I tried to register at the town hall age 18, tried to work with a lawyer, talked to organizations. There is no real route. NGOs talk about it but do nothing.
15:03:26 <naphtha[m]> the more i think about it the more i realize how much it sucks
15:03:29 <naphtha[m]> you cant travel either right?
15:05:54 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Fortunately I was never in an ID control. I stayed inside during the 2x 6 week corona lockdowns because cops were making ID controls to everyone who was walking in the street. Fortunately my friend eventually got groceries for me 2x during the 6 weeks. I couldn't get food delivery due to no credit card. But even this is a utopia and freedom, compared to the abuse that I escaped from age 18 (unrelated to the ID issue). My only regret is 
15:05:54 <anarkiocrypto[m]> runaway as a minor. So my perspective is skewed by 18 years of hell, that even living as an "eternal fugitive" is peace and freedom in comparison.
15:06:51 <naphtha[m]> i get that
15:07:12 <naphtha[m]> obviously havent experienced it to the same degree but i can say i understand
15:07:24 <anarkiocrypto[m]> > Monero voicechat but we all use espeak
15:07:24 <anarkiocrypto[m]> My presentations here all use text-to-speech: https://tube.tchncs.de/c/anarkio/videos but it would be laggy in real-time. A few years ago, I coded a Python script to pipe TTS to a virtual microphone for use in a voice call that in the end, I didn't need to participate in.
15:07:35 <Siren[m]> <spirobel[m]> "they can clearly see the..." <- I disagree with this. Often people aren't smart or emphatetic enough to realize what they're seeing is oppression. Or they don't have people that are oppressed in this way in their circles. These people can absolutely be educated.
15:08:11 <suitslie[m]> <anarkiocrypto[m]> "Maybe it would be necessary in..." <- i am heavily pro a monero technology based PoW tor network
15:08:19 <suitslie[m]> or any other system
15:08:47 <suitslie[m]> or not PoW, probably doesn't make sense, maybe tor nodes should just requires fees for handling your network traffic and you need to pay this via monero
15:08:54 <suitslie[m]> but the problem is sending continuous payment streams?
15:08:55 <naphtha[m]> this exists
15:08:59 <naphtha[m]> i think thee oxen network does this
15:09:10 <naphtha[m]> also theres something that i think is based on monero called nym
15:09:11 <naphtha[m]> unfortunately
15:09:13 <naphtha[m]> they both suck
15:09:22 <suitslie[m]> yes see that is the thing
15:09:38 <naphtha[m]> in the meantime
15:09:44 <naphtha[m]> my project indirectly donates to relay operators
15:09:59 <naphtha[m]> which is kinda the same thing but not as foolproof or secure
15:10:48 <naphtha[m]> as it's not decentralized and i could always exit scam if i wanted to
15:10:55 <suitslie[m]> another layer on top of the tor network should be developed that would allow tor relays to possibly handle priority traffic for payments in XMR
15:11:02 <suitslie[m]> but payment streams are a problem still in my opinion
15:11:52 <naphtha[m]> suitslie[m]: i think having every relay know who you are is dangerous
15:11:58 <anarkiocrypto[m]> It would be difficult for me to spend $10~/month to use Tor, but I need to use Tor for free speech reasons and to safely connect in order to earn money online. I was lucky to earn $100 last month, couldn't earn anything the previous month, and this month I don't know if I will be able to earn anything, but hopefully. I have one paid project but sadly I am taking a long time to complete it, and even then I don't know if it would meet the
15:12:45 <anarkiocrypto[m]> A donation model for Tor is more inclusive, especially as it is difficult in many places to buy crypto with KYC-free crypto ATMs, cash by mail or cash in person, due to low liquidity.
15:13:27 <naphtha[m]> naphtha[m]: i mean, i don't **think** it is, it IS dangerous. even if it didn't have an unique identifier, only a way to find if you paid or not, it would be a way to identify and deanonymize you
15:13:50 <naphtha[m]> so yes, a donation model is better
15:14:00 <anarkiocrypto[m]> The people who truly need Tor (activists, victims of abuse, people in oppressive countries, marginalized people) are unlikely to have a lot of money. Sadly the greater the adversity you experience, the greater likelihood of poverty and struggling to survive...
15:14:54 <naphtha[m]> s/identify/fingerprint/
15:15:37 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Although there should be some extra marketing. Many people don't even know that there is a way to donate to relays. They only see the Tor project's donation address, which doesn't go toward existing or new relays.
15:16:41 <naphtha[m]> i'll do some marketing work after i finish the transactions page update where you can check the txid and key for every transaction
15:17:06 <naphtha[m]> but i won't be mad if anyone wants to help me with the marketing 😸
15:17:42 <spirobel[m]> <Siren[m]> "I disagree with this. Often..." <- maybe it is possible. I bet if you went to a progressive event in Berlin for example and gave a speech for how Monero can be used to help the oppressed it would work. But there needs to be some call to action like: do a fundraiser with Monero. Otherwise they will forget about it the next week. 
15:22:51 <Siren[m]> <spirobel[m]> "maybe it is possible. I bet if..." <- MoneroKon is a good example that worked. Or you know get them a flatmate that works at a bank, or even better someone from Iran.
15:27:04 <suitslie[m]> Siren[m]: essentially if we summarize all of this under publicity stuns, there should be some generic, not too complex, possibly even incentivized type of publicity stunt which should be developed, which can then simply be replicated across areas
15:27:53 <suitslie[m]> not just talking of publicity stunts, but any extrapolation of the "pay me a coffee i'll pay you back in XMR" as an example, or something else
15:28:34 <naphtha[m]> the best way to grow monero is to offer services or products that are exclusively paid in xmr
15:28:37 <spirobel[m]> <Siren[m]> "MoneroKon is a good example that..." <- it needs to be connected to some narrative that is le current thing in their circle. Like for example: erdogan beats poor lgbtqxyz protesters. Make a monero fundraiser to save them. That is just a very crude example, but something that would totally work. 
15:28:50 <suitslie[m]> spirobel[m]: see this is too specific
15:28:56 <naphtha[m]> only insane people like everyone here will want to use a coin that has no obvious use
15:29:08 <suitslie[m]> naphtha[m]: looking for something which is between this and social events, do you understand?
15:29:30 <suitslie[m]> asking in a good way
15:29:30 <naphtha[m]> i'm just afraid you're wasting your time
15:29:38 <spirobel[m]> suitslie[m]: it needs to be specific so it can become part of the narrative and the collective conciousness of a certain group.
15:29:56 <suitslie[m]> spirobel[m]: yes talking in gradients here. it is a trade off.
15:30:19 <naphtha[m]> monero is anti censorship. these people aren't anti censorship no matter how much they try to appear as such
15:30:28 <naphtha[m]> it's a waste of time to pander to these groups
15:30:39 <spirobel[m]> suitslie[m]: pay me for coffee is not very sticky. next week they will use venmo or paypal or just cash to settle the bills ...
15:31:30 <suitslie[m]> pay in XMR EV charger?
15:31:56 <suitslie[m]> and you set up solar panels to charge the thing
15:32:07 <suitslie[m]> some strong battery
15:32:25 <spirobel[m]> naphtha[m]: you dont need to be ideologically pure to use cash. Everyone uses cash. The commies use cash. The internet nazis use cash. Everyone uses cash. Cash is neutral
15:33:08 <suitslie[m]> yeah as much as it seems naphtha is on point with this topic. But I will add, monero will more and more prove it's worth when things go to shit, that is what crypto is made for anyways
15:33:13 <Siren[m]> spirobel[m]: Not at all. It usually ticks in their heads when they understand that they don't own what they place in the bank anymore.
15:33:28 <Siren[m]> Not everyone cares about X dictator, but everyone cares about money.
15:33:33 <suitslie[m]> so quite inadvertently it's going to have to be the "before it gets better it's gonna have to get a lot worse"
15:34:07 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: Or when they get in trouble with tax or migration authorities
15:34:27 <naphtha[m]> spirobel[m]: pretty much no one gets paid in cash anymore. internet banking isn't neutral, and that's why these groups like it. remember alex jones? remember canadian truckers? remember kanye?
15:34:38 <naphtha[m]> remember how happy they were when they got their bank accounts frozen?
15:34:55 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: Or when they grow out of their free student bank plan and they get told to pay or fuck off.
15:35:11 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: I know so many people who went bankless and full crypto at this stage.
15:36:04 <suitslie[m]> Siren[m]: are those the usdt holder types or diversified / xmr holder types
15:36:15 <suitslie[m]> or btc or something else
15:37:07 <Siren[m]> suitslie[m]: Usually diversified. One of them did the mistake of using his main ETH wallet (where he also receives his salary) for tornado cash and now he gets refused by every single exchange lol.
15:37:23 <Siren[m]> Should have used monero from the start.
15:37:40 <naphtha[m]> whats tornado cash again?
15:37:43 <naphtha[m]> i think i know them
15:37:43 <suitslie[m]> Siren[m]: funny thing is they might have been dusted too
15:38:18 <suitslie[m]> naphtha[m]: privacy mixer, only one on ethereum
15:38:49 <suitslie[m]> naphtha[m]: privacy mixer, besides railgun, largest one on ethereum
15:39:32 <suitslie[m]> specifically immutably deployed contracts,
15:39:49 <anarkiocrypto[m]> > looking for something which is between this and social events, do you understand?
15:39:50 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I had some ideas about this, related to Bitejo, but don't have the social skills nor network for this. Essentially it would be nice to have crypto "garage sales" e.g. once a month, which would take place e.g. in Bitejo or a Matrix room or a Telegram group, as well as crypto meetups having their own "garage sales" in real life at the meetup venue or renting a stand at a local market. People bring things they don't need anymore (old phone
15:39:50 <anarkiocrypto[m]> etc.) or things that they made (food, art, products from their business) and sell it for crypto.
15:39:53 <suitslie[m]> the "backend"
15:40:02 <suitslie[m]> oh man
15:40:05 <suitslie[m]>  * oh man, that reply messed it up
15:40:25 <suitslie[m]> * deployed contracts, there is a service layer on top but the "backend" is disconnected from it
15:41:10 <anarkiocrypto[m]> * for crypto. It would help people learn about crypto as a payment method, connect buyers and sellers, etc.
15:45:54 <naphtha[m]> <suitslie[m]> "privacy mixer, besides railgun..." <- i think they're on kyun now
15:45:56 <naphtha[m]> lol
15:45:56 <naphtha[m]> 🫡
18:27:51 <suitslie[m]> <naphtha[m]> "i think they're on kyun now" <- wdym, the app is hosted on VPS instances? their relayers are running from there?
18:28:18 <naphtha[m]> i don't know what's hosted on kyun as they use cloudflare and i don't look at vms
18:28:25 <naphtha[m]> but i received an email from what i assume was them
18:28:33 <naphtha[m]> about an issue
18:28:57 <suitslie[m]> hmm ok
18:52:20 <scragglez[m]> <naphtha[m]> "i don't know what's hosted on..." <- Dumb question but how does cloudfare prevent you from know what's running on the boxes? 
18:52:35 <naphtha[m]> cloudflare does mitm
18:52:40 <naphtha[m]> it's a reverse proxy
18:52:57 <naphtha[m]> the client goes to cloudflare's ip and cloudflare proxies whatever is on the target server back to the client
18:53:14 <scragglez[m]> Ya but you should be able find ips for boxes 
18:53:25 <scragglez[m]> Ah I guess they could only allow traffic to and from cloudfare
18:53:26 <scragglez[m]> Got it
18:53:28 <scragglez[m]> Yeah 
18:53:32 <naphtha[m]> yeah
18:53:45 <naphtha[m]> if you lookup a domain that's proxied through cloudflare all you'll get back is cloudflare's ip
18:53:52 <naphtha[m]> also, fuck cloudflare
18:54:13 <scragglez[m]> Any alternative suggestions? 
18:54:26 <naphtha[m]> just don't use cloudflare
18:54:31 <naphtha[m]> use your actual server ip
18:54:43 <scragglez[m]> I mean I agree
18:54:53 <naphtha[m]> if you NEED ddos protection, as in, it has happened before, rent a vps in a ddos protected datacenter
18:54:59 <naphtha[m]> and use a WAF
18:55:11 <naphtha[m]> if you're REALLY getting ddosed, you can also use a captcha system
18:55:19 <naphtha[m]> like what kiwifarms implemented with kiwiflare
18:55:30 <naphtha[m]> when they got banned by cloudflare
18:55:37 <scragglez[m]> I mean I do like the idea of having one vps public facing and maybe another that's using wireguard or whatever that actually runs apps
18:55:53 <naphtha[m]> yes
18:56:14 <naphtha[m]> you would be using caddy/nginx/apache/whatever on the public facing vps
18:56:24 <naphtha[m]> as a reverse proxy to your other private vps
18:56:29 <scragglez[m]> Yeah and that one can filter out traffic
18:56:43 <scragglez[m]> No host header kinda stuff etc
18:56:48 <naphtha[m]> yes
18:57:28 <naphtha[m]> cloudflare is the biggest datamining operation
18:57:37 <scragglez[m]> Oh for sure 
18:57:43 <naphtha[m]> they have all of your data
18:57:47 <scragglez[m]>  Crypto AG style 
18:57:48 <naphtha[m]> even if you use ssl
18:57:51 <naphtha[m]> they have to break ssl
18:58:13 <naphtha[m]> or, rather, they need access to the unencrypted data
18:58:28 <scragglez[m]> I mean they're on all the certs. At that point it doesn't even matter lol
18:58:44 <naphtha[m]> what do you mean they're on all the certs
18:59:00 <scragglez[m]> Are they not also authorities?
18:59:41 <naphtha[m]> yeah they are a cert authority
18:59:58 <naphtha[m]> but they don't have access to certs that aren't on their CA
19:00:53 <scragglez[m]> Just curious why do they have to break that then? 
19:01:46 <naphtha[m]> they don't break it, i wrote that wrong. what matters is that they have access to all data that goes through them, unencrypted
19:01:57 <naphtha[m]> passwords, private user data, everything
19:02:40 <scragglez[m]> Ah yeah okay, I agree
19:04:34 <scragglez[m]> So for cloudfare ddos protection or whatever, you're sending your data to them, encrypted. They forward that to whoever encrypted as well. Just literal mitm at that point is what you're saying 
19:04:48 <naphtha[m]> yes
19:05:19 <scragglez[m]> Two separate handshakes 🤝 
19:05:23 <naphtha[m]> when you're sending data to them it's only encrypted in transit and decrypted by cloudflare
19:05:39 <scragglez[m]> Yeah, I'm following you now 
19:06:19 <scragglez[m]> That's why you need that layer 4/5 encryption 😆
19:08:20 <scragglez[m]> Is there any pre-built nice docker image for public facing vps + nginx? naphtha: 
19:08:30 <naphtha[m]> im not sure
19:08:32 <naphtha[m]> i just use caddy
19:08:38 <naphtha[m]> its really nice
19:09:01 <scragglez[m]> Pretty neat to have something with nginx/caddy, fail2ban, wireguard ready to go
19:09:04 <scragglez[m]> Though I haven't used caddy yet 
19:09:39 <scragglez[m]> Me and all my homies use Rust not go
19:09:54 <naphtha[m]> both larps
19:10:01 <naphtha[m]> use typescript, the aryan language
19:10:07 <scragglez[m]> Imagine using a reverse proxy backdoored by Google 
19:10:09 <scragglez[m]> Seesh
19:10:38 <naphtha[m]> scragglez[m]: so true
19:11:03 <plowsof11> rust / crabthusiasts -> #cuprate:monero.social 
19:11:27 <naphtha[m]> cuprate is a great idea i know one of the devs
19:11:35 <naphtha[m]> it just needs a loooot more work
19:26:54 <kayabanerve[m]> <plowsof11> "rust / crabthusiasts -> #cuprate..." <- It's Rustaceans, tyvm
19:28:05 <naphtha[m]> rust-ACK!
20:14:33 <recanman[m]> test
23:17:08 <maxenttech[m]> Any Python web developers around? I'm hiring a back-end or full-stack developer for a project involving Monero. $55 - $65/hour based on experience (can be paid in Monero).
23:19:42 <ShaneonConduitrs> Is there any more appealing way to add monero to my contributions? https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/241360
23:19:59 <ShaneonConduitrs> e.g. allowing people to pay with credit card and i guess instructions on how to use fixedfloat