00:57:10 * louissignet[m] uploaded an image: (999KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/EbCXAwVcHTKWLKhJsCOcADqp/Screenshot%202023-07-08%20at%202.56.49.png >
00:57:15 <louissignet[m]> Oh yeah, super decentralized...
00:58:09 <louissignet[m]> Whats the meme? "the most decentralized censorship-resistance network"
00:58:41 <louissignet[m]> Very compatible with public companies owning the majority of the hashrate.
01:13:41 * louissignet[m] uploaded an image: (137KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/cUdKgMrYuJRLJhwcxFukVpoo/Screenshot%202023-07-08%20at%203.12.59.png >
01:14:11 <louissignet[m]> LMAO Riot VP didn't like it
01:19:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lmao
01:20:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Humans" my ass. More like corporations own like 99.8%
01:20:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> I guess corporations are people too #identifyas
01:21:41 <Torr> ofrnxmr[m]: Pretty much, under US law at least.
01:21:52 <Torr> What a time to be alive.
01:22:55 <Torr> Reminds me of Voltaire: "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it."
01:22:57 <louissignet[m]> Humans owning the hashrate is only "truer" in Monero
01:23:00 <louissignet[m]> 1 CPU = 1 VOTE
01:23:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> 100% is false for monero too
01:24:14 <louissignet[m]> see use of "truer"
01:24:28 <louissignet[m]> In my mind is all about barriers of entry. CPU > GPU > ASIC > 32 ETH
01:24:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> 32 eth when?
01:24:54 <naphtha[m]> <louissignet[m]> "Screenshot 2023-07-08 at 2.56.49..." <- jesus
01:24:56 <louissignet[m]> Validator for Ethereum requirements
01:25:03 <louissignet[m]> Stake minimum
01:25:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> 32 eth pre 2020 was easier than asic btc
01:25:06 <naphtha[m]> 10.5 what????
01:25:24 <louissignet[m]> Sure but right now thats more expensive than setting up an ASIC
01:25:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> louissignet[m]: Yaya i know
01:25:28 <naphtha[m]> 10.5 quintillion hashes a second thats 10,500,000 TH
01:25:53 <naphtha[m]> monero has 2.36 GH right now
01:26:00 <naphtha[m]> though im sure randomx is a lot harder
01:26:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im saying "now" thats not even a subject, "then" eth was asic an gpu mined
01:26:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> naphtha[m]: 2.36 👀
01:26:52 <louissignet[m]> if you go even further back the barrier of entry is basically 0 for the premine participants 
01:26:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> 282g difficulty 
01:26:58 <louissignet[m]> but for humans today, that's the entry costs
01:27:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gotchac youre referring to entry costs of each tier
01:27:43 <louissignet[m]> correct
01:28:05 <louissignet[m]> CPU being the most equitable
01:31:39 <naphtha[m]> 10.5 quintillion sha256 hashes a second
01:31:47 <naphtha[m]> bitcoin isnt what concerns me here
01:31:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Depends if people use em. In any case, there are asic mined or proof of stake chains that are "100%" human owned 
01:32:00 <naphtha[m]> how fast can you bruteforce a password?
01:32:09 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> 1234
01:32:15 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> broken
01:32:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> I use my seed as my passwordv everywhere
01:33:15 <louissignet[m]> naphtha[m]: They don't even need to find it. At that speed they can probably find a matching collision.
01:33:57 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> found me?
01:35:22 <louissignet[m]> We need more quintillion per seconds for that 
01:35:25 * naphtha[m] uploaded an image: (5KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kyun.host/IsOfmcepqqMIBZdkezPdeEpu/Screenshot%20from%202023-07-08%2004-35-15.png >
01:35:31 <louissignet[m]> I have yet to find myself
01:35:46 <naphtha[m]> 36 possible characters thats lowercase letters and numbers
01:37:17 <naphtha[m]> of course thats assuming theyre encrypted with sha256
01:37:21 <naphtha[m]> which isnt realistic
01:43:01 <naphtha[m]> * encrypted with double sha256
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06:00:52 <naphtha[m]> monerosisters....i dont feel so good...
06:37:33 <merope> <naphtha[m]> "of course thats assuming..." <- Hashing is not encryption btw
06:38:02 <merope> And sha256's speed is exactly the reason why it's not (supposed to be) used as a hashing algo to store passwords
06:38:55 <merope> You want something heavy enough that it can't be easily bruteforced, but still light enough that you can handle tons of requests/s (for large websites)
07:25:48 <hbs[m]> This all bitcoin mining thing will not end well
07:29:15 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Not for btc
07:29:44 <hbs[m]> Not even sure
07:30:07 <hbs[m]> s/all/whole/
07:33:05 <XMRBABY678> Hey everyone
07:33:58 <XMRBABY678> I have a question regarding downloading the Monero blockchain, how long does it usually take to download it fully?
07:36:36 <naphtha[m]> depends
07:36:42 <naphtha[m]> how long is a piece of string?
07:37:08 <naphtha[m]> if you put it on an ssd it will be fast
07:37:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> XMRBABY678: Download?
07:37:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or verify?
07:37:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Download = however long it takes to download 160gb
07:38:32 <XMRBABY678> naphtha[m], I am downloading it from an Hard Drive ahahah it might take awhile 
07:38:50 <naphtha[m]> yeah it will take a couple days on an hdd
07:39:51 <naphtha[m]> if you mean syncing and not just downloading
07:39:55 <XMRBABY678> ofrnxmr[m], Hopefully i'm patient enough to let it download it's just the data on my internet that can take a toll on me xD
07:40:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> naphtha[m]: Or weeks
07:42:15 <XMRBABY678> How long have you guys been on XMR?
09:03:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> First day
09:07:12 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Back from the future
10:37:51 <ZarterPleaseping> Thoughts on buying monero via cakewallet with my credit card
10:55:34 <naphtha[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "First day" <- same
10:55:43 <naphtha[m]> you were there too at the fbi headquarters?
10:55:50 <naphtha[m]> or do you mean the "public" launch
11:00:03 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Cia
11:01:06 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Remember when i said yesterday its annoying when you say use local monero and they responded its kyc
11:05:16 <naphtha[m]> ah yeah i remember now
11:05:20 <naphtha[m]> you hosted the launch at your place
11:07:10 <RymdLord[m]> Question is automation of payments possible? And Is there a privacy risk to automate payments to donations addresses even if they come from a new sub address every time? Also If a list of donation/payment addresses and payment addresses where made that keep track of projects, organisations, and companies addresses that could be hosted and then downloaded by everyone to use would it introduce any risks to the "Users" aka donators/customers?
11:09:13 <naphtha[m]> sure its possible
11:16:39 <RymdLord[m]> Alright has anyone succeeded with it? Is there maybe a FOSS or Opensource project that has done the basics? 
11:25:38 <RymdLord[m]> Is there anyway to automate buying XMR? 
11:28:28 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Like sub wallet?
11:28:53 <naphtha[m]> <RymdLord[m]> "Alright has anyone succeeded..." <- where do you want to send to? and when? youre being vague
11:29:06 <naphtha[m]> s/when/how often/
11:29:12 <naphtha[m]> RymdLord[m]: if you use kraken yes
11:30:36 <RymdLord[m]> What part am I being vague about? Ok I will look into kraken! I just want to try to make it easier to be a FOSS dev and live of it!
11:38:37 <naphtha[m]> <RymdLord[m]> "What part am I being vague about..." <- the basic way of sending payments is by using monero-wallet-rpc and sending the payment through that, doing all the logic yourself
11:39:12 <naphtha[m]> but depending on your use case there might be an existing implementation for the logic
11:39:39 <naphtha[m]> what are you trying to accomplish exactly?
11:47:36 <RymdLord[m]> You put monero in a wallet that knows what projects you use and how much you use them and has it locally or stores it on a self hosted central point and then auto donates a % of what is in that wallet to the projects and that % is based of % of usage.
12:23:17 <naphtha[m]> <RymdLord[m]> "You put monero in a wallet..." <- how would you know how much the project is used? web extension? what if its a native app?
12:23:34 <naphtha[m]> what if its something you keep open constantly instead of closing after you use it?
12:50:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> <RymdLord[m]> "Alright has anyone succeeded..." <- Brave
13:25:47 <chowbungaman[m]1> Join us at 11am est
13:25:47 <chowbungaman[m]1> https://twitter.com/monerotopia/status/1677440538847629312?s=46&t=WeY1AyuT6Ir1FNBKKq_Beg
13:28:43 * naphtha[m] uploaded an image: (22KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kyun.host/cUOQzslcPvhVHkPDrHskkNuX/Screenshot%20from%202023-07-08%2016-28-17.png >
13:29:43 <naphtha[m]> WE UP ☝️☝️☝️🆙🆙💯💯👁️👁️📈📈📈⬆️⬆️⏫⏫⤴️↗️↗️
14:31:10 <luks2[m]> Federated monero communities on hidden services kinda crazy
14:36:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> <luks2[m]> "Federated monero communities..." <- Y
14:40:20 <luks2[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: 4chan crowd
14:41:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> simplex might work for that
14:41:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> <luks2[m]> "Federated monero communities..." <- For this
14:46:03 <Torr> ofrnxmr[m]: The amount of algebra that went through my head when you typed 'simplex' is grotesque.
14:46:21 <Torr> So many matrices.
14:46:33 <Torr> Math flashbacks are something else =P
15:01:28 <naphtha[m]> <Torr> "Math flashbacks are something..." <- thats why i dropped out of high school
15:03:55 <Torr> Lol
15:04:19 <Torr> With reason. High school is crime.
15:04:30 <Torr> a* crime
15:07:10 <woollyrhino> huh? how is it a crime?
15:07:29 <woollyrhino> it teaches retards standard operating procedure. very helpful
15:08:15 <woollyrhino> you were probably below retardation levels, that's why you don't like it
15:08:22 <woollyrhino> oof
15:11:24 <Torr> Pretty much how they reason.
15:24:52 <naphtha[m]> <woollyrhino> "it teaches retards standard..." <- maybe in america
15:25:13 <naphtha[m]> you don't know how bad balkan ex-commie countries' education system is
15:29:38 <woollyrhino> yeah i have no clue. how bad is it? they didn't teach you guys math and biology?
15:30:01 <naphtha[m]> its not bad in that sense
15:30:14 <woollyrhino> in what sense is it bad?
15:31:11 <naphtha[m]> if you think learning tons of useless bullshit like math or biology is good then yeah the system is very good
15:31:16 <naphtha[m]> it doesn't teach you actual, real, useful life skills
15:31:32 <naphtha[m]> it teaches you to be a communist slave
15:31:48 <woollyrhino> it teaches you to interact with your peers
15:31:58 <woollyrhino> just by virtue of bringing you together
15:32:09 <naphtha[m]> even after 33 years of """""democracy"""""
15:32:15 <naphtha[m]> woollyrhino: that is true
15:32:25 <naphtha[m]> jail teaches you to interact with others too
15:32:36 <naphtha[m]> very well in fact
15:32:37 <naphtha[m]> will you go to jail tomorrow?
15:33:27 <woollyrhino> i don't know about that, jail is very pre-selective of certain traits. so yeah, it teaches you how to interact with people that rank high in dark triad scores
15:54:38 <Torr> naphtha[m]: Bingo!
16:12:07 <recanman[m]> plowsof: Important question:
16:12:07 <recanman[m]> Are you ofrnxmr or not?
16:12:25 <naphtha[m]> he is
16:12:30 <naphtha[m]> hating ass nigga
16:12:52 <naphtha[m]> would do anything to keep a young black entrepreneur down
16:13:03 <recanman[m]> Well, he gets two votes!
16:13:14 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: Would you like some affirmative action? 
16:13:18 <plowsof11> im not answering any questions at this time without my legal representative present
16:13:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> One up and 1 down
16:13:21 <naphtha[m]> of course
16:14:40 <naphtha[m]> hmph.... kittens.... you're making daddy mad..... you wont like me when im angry....
16:16:18 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: What? There are no cats here!
16:17:16 <naphtha[m]> i thought we wuz tight recanman.... if thats even your real name
16:17:24 <naphtha[m]> 😿
16:17:41 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: I don't understand your use of slang, but no, recanman is not my "legal" name
16:19:37 <naphtha[m]> translation: I was assuming we were friendly towards eachother, like the gentlemen we are.
16:20:31 <recanman[m]> I am friendly towards as many people as I able to be, as long as they do not (attempt to) hurt me in a sense that would compromise my threat model
16:21:00 <recanman[m]> My name is very generic thankfully, so revealing it would not do much.
16:23:23 <naphtha[m]> aha i see then we cool? the real name thing was a joke
16:24:04 <recanman[m]> We were always 'cool' (if you mean not in a conflict against each other), I don't understand what you mean
16:24:06 <recanman[m]> * you mean.
16:24:21 <recanman[m]> I will leave, goodbyr.
16:24:23 <recanman[m]> s/goodbyr/goodbye/
16:26:12 <naphtha[m]> ah ok i probably misunderstood
16:26:46 <naphtha[m]> i was going to say something but i dont want to be jannied
20:53:18 <plowsof11> naphtha final warning for terms of service violations https://libera.chat/policies/ 
21:14:28 <great_taste> call 911
21:36:47 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> <plowsof11> "im not answering any questions..." <- Here now
22:15:51 <jonathan_doe> Why does `monerod --data-dir a_directory` output the help text?
22:18:08 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Syntax
22:18:18 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> https://monerodocs.org/interacting/monero-config-file/
22:41:50 <jonathan_doe> got it. I did not try that even though the man page had =/whatever, because it said first `--data-dir arg`
22:42:10 <jonathan_doe> changing to --data-dir=/whatever did not fix
22:42:31 <jonathan_doe> wait nvm---that is from the config file
22:42:50 <jonathan_doe> i was trying to do an inline argument
22:43:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> -- isnt needd from config
22:43:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is needed from command line
22:44:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> --data-dir=path/to/.bitmonero
22:44:39 <jonathan_doe> yes, i am doing command line. i just changed it to that. surely it doesn't need to be a hidden dir?
22:44:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> <jonathan_doe> "Why does `monerod --data-dir..." <- Typos?
22:45:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> jonathan_doe: No, it doesnt need to be hidden
22:45:17 <jonathan_doe> Interestingly, it looks by default in the data dir for the config, so it may make most sense to alias the data dir rather than config dir
22:46:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> I just use --config-file=path
22:46:19 <jonathan_doe> i realize the problem now---I already sourced an alias so it was verbosely doing two different --data-dir options
22:46:33 <jonathan_doe> i have opened a new shell with my old option commented out
22:46:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Perfect
22:47:26 <jonathan_doe> when i last opened monerod it filled up my hard drive, then the ssd i wanted to move it to stopped showing up (I recall getting errors in the past about using rotating disks, perhaps in the wallet client, but I will try it now anyway)
22:47:33 <jonathan_doe> thank you 
23:00:14 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> there is a paid support plan in #monero-support:monero.social
23:00:22 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> for next time
23:02:44 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> 0 xmr is required
23:19:26 <eudaimon36[m]> <jonathan_doe> "when i last opened monerod it..." <- damn two of us in a day...
23:19:48 <naphtha[m]> solar flares
23:19:55 <naphtha[m]> gucci mane la flare
23:32:48 <tux> hello
23:33:18 <tux> why is monerod extremely slow to sync once it reaches 80%? It sync'd 1800 blocks in 1 minute
23:35:02 <eudaimon36[m]> later blocks have more data, I always thought
23:35:12 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> guess how many people where using it then
23:35:41 <tux> yea but it's been 5 hours on 12MB/s aka 100Mbit/s. The blockchain is like 130GB large which should take roughly 3 hours at worst. Sorry I am just trying to get to the bottom of this
23:37:00 <tux> I guessed 130 due to previous amount + percentage left. Given that the new blocks contain more data, I will be wrong
23:37:39 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> ssd?
23:37:51 <tux> DanrdarkIsnotthe: m.2 nvme ssd
23:39:52 <tux> right now the database file is at 104GB (GiB to be exact)
23:43:57 <JivanPal[m]> My understanding is that the node won't bother to download too many blocks in advance of the latest one that it has currently verified, in case one of those blocks turns out to be invalid, meaning all the subsequent download work will have been in vain.
23:50:00 <tux> JivanPal[m]: Is there anything I can do to speed up this process? Sorry for taking everyone's time, almost done 
23:52:05 <JivanPal[m]> In general, no; your node must verify that teach transaction in each block is valid, else it has no way of knowing/guaranteeing that the consensus rules you wish to enforce are being followed.
23:52:31 <JivanPal[m]> s/teach/each/
23:52:50 <JivanPal[m]> It's just dependent on your processing speed, really.
23:53:37 <tux> JivanPal[m]: thank you very much, last last question I promise I won't keep poking after this, how much bandwith should you expect running monerod 24/7 for a month? I have to kind of guess whether 10 TB per month would be enough for the daemon each month.
23:58:25 <JivanPal[m]> tux: I couldn't give you estimated/exact figures, but even 1TB in/out per month is definitely way more than enough. 
23:59:10 <tux> JivanPal[m]: thank you so much, very much appreciated. I hope you have an amazing rest of your weekend, thanks again for answering my questions (:
23:59:57 <JivanPal[m]> Transaction data alone is probably about 16GB/mth (based on number of transactions over last 12 months, and average transaction size of 13KiB)