03:19:27 is it viable to mine monero on ARM chips? 03:19:45 they have lower power usage but i would imagine they would cost more for the same amount of hash rate 03:22:26 xx_raxer_xx I can't see why not. 03:22:43 Find used or broken apple m1 macbooks/minis, fix/refurb and mine 03:22:53 You can mine on any cpu, if it’s viable or not it’s upto cost you incurred 03:24:10 Many ARM chips are included on the xmrig benchmark page: https://xmrig.com/benchmark?vendor=other 04:08:05 thanks, yall are somehow more helpful than the monero discord while having less members (not trying to diss them0 04:08:07 thanks, yall are somehow more helpful than the monero discord while having less members (not trying to diss them( 04:08:11 thanks, yall are somehow more helpful than the monero discord while having less members (not trying to diss them) 04:10:48 i figured out that used epyc 7351's (when bought used) pay themselves off faster (1/2 to 2/3rds of a year until they pay themselves off assuming 0.02/kWh electricity price) 04:12:15 100 dollars for a 12k hashrate cpu 04:12:18 Cheap kwh 04:12:20 Wow 04:12:26 i'm mining in syria, of all places 04:12:39 Fantastic 04:12:40 12k hashrate is great 04:14:10 also there are some other better EPYC's that offer better deals but i forgot bout them 04:14:39 im currently scraping every single known place to find used cpu's to compile a big spreadsheet of monero cpu's 04:14:42 i might post it here 04:15:01 if it's not the intel xeon or epyc then i will be dumbfounded 04:15:04 That would be incredibly helpful to many people 04:15:08 That is a great idea 04:15:30 Xeons are great for mining 04:15:38 yeah 04:16:07 although i have noticed that they usually have moderately higher power consumption, but they can have better $/hash rate when bought use 04:16:12 although i have noticed that they usually have moderately higher power consumption, but they can have better $/hash rate when bought used 04:18:00 does anyone know places to get used cpus besides ebay/craigslist? 04:18:08 Those are pretty much the only places 04:18:11 i want to include every single listing that exists (ideally) 04:18:13 oh 04:18:31 I've bought many servers/server parts in my lifetime and they have all been with ebay and craigslist 04:19:24 but also 04:19:26 i'm not excluding the power of consumer-grade cpus 04:19:42 sometimes you can find them used for the price of a block of dirt 04:19:51 I've never looked into it 04:21:19 some of them are competitive with server cpus, although they can suffer from the problem of costing more power than they give hashrate 04:21:51 but also does anyone know how to do the spreadsheet idea 04:21:59 without ebay tagging me as a ddos attacker or something 04:22:11 Use some proxies? 04:22:21 nah jit sometimes they captcha 04:22:26 I don't know if ebay has an api 04:22:34 Oh, didn't know that 04:22:37 xx_raxer_xx pay a good vpn 04:22:52 njalla or mullvad 04:23:24 ye 04:23:35 that makes sense 04:23:52 why mining in Syria? 04:24:11 cheapest power on earth 04:24:11 very literally you cannot find a better deal for power 04:24:20 you have to do a real life tower defense mission but it still works 04:24:31 oh, that's nice 04:24:42 civil war be damned the power companies are doing a good job at using all their excess oil 04:25:33 "Make Monero, Not War" 04:26:12 ✌️ 04:26:20 also, how likely are cpu's to fail? 04:26:34 CPUs don't usually fail 04:26:35 i have heard that's unlikely but also its craigslist so anything can happen 04:27:28 that's nice to know 04:27:30 They don't have any moving parts, so just make sure that they have thermal paste and are ventilated and they will be good for years 04:28:27 holy mother of christ 04:28:27 i found the mother of all deals 04:28:39 an E5-2680 V3 for 9 dollars and fourty five fucking cents 04:28:46 11k hashes for under 10 goddamn dollars 04:29:58 lol 04:31:45 but that's the cpu only, right? you need the motherboard, etc. 04:31:57 https://bit.ly/ebayusedcpu1 04:32:04 its in bulk 04:32:12 oh 04:32:12 shit you're right 04:33:04 let me find the cheapest motherboards known to man 04:33:10 Get an 8-cpu board 04:33:15 what 04:33:17 Get an 8-socket board 04:33:17 those exist? 04:33:22 Maybe 04:33:25 I was half-joking 04:33:44 huh 04:33:45 cool 04:33:49 it technically exists 04:34:07 i think 04:34:12 only rumors of it's existence 04:34:40 LGA 1567 can hold 8 sockets 04:34:47 yeah 04:34:50 thats what i heard 04:35:03 https://www.ebay.com/itm/125394312821 04:35:05 4-socket 04:35:13 what ze fuck 04:35:13 they actually make a good amount of quad socket motherboards 04:35:15 i checked on ebay 04:35:15 oh that too 04:35:42 it might be cheaper to find some random used motherboard then buy a specialized 4 socket one 04:36:05 👀 04:37:19 gentlement 04:37:21 gentlemen 04:37:24 i have found it 04:37:32 hold up 04:39:02 https://www.ebay.com/itm/235107192469?epid=12013058702&hash=item36bd7b0e95:g:ZTEAAOSwQIxkw-ca&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4LxN7WOGaiWlMXbadGMJTBPZtb20kcabKnj5I2LshIqg1Iq0LoaaqPqyVCBXfzt%2FXVNXI7Hm2zNp47urK8vcOop0lN2DGKdd7GnuxKkQyCMBkD9nCvXgSCOcKN%2BKi%2FaE03aIB7jrC%2BdKLG5LJf3l%2BYtzE0PL%2FrlX%2F6jkWIkbVwtdiokIvlBmaG87VM7Hh1Qog6V0HV2TIPVRv8C16bFMIkRYUd3WzN8U%2FDEKHOzHBRND5Id%2BnoRM6odSKi 04:39:02 q%2Bz8r%2BIOrDAPf4ymdVYUbR7XYlOGLUBgIt%2FlNYwf6V73fgg847%7Ctkp%3ABFBMoo3X58ti 04:39:15 45 dollars for a duel cpu with the right sockets 04:39:34 assuming im going with the 10 dollar cpu 04:39:35 Beautiful 04:39:44 now for the ram 04:39:53 you can share only https://www.ebay.com/itm/235107192469 the important part of the url, to make it shorter 04:40:05 after the ? is generally not important 04:40:06 oh, thank you 04:40:07 *And without the tracking) 04:40:12 (And without the tracking) 04:40:17 that too 04:40:26 ok so 04:40:27 Is that DDR3 or DDR2? 04:40:53 how much ram do i need per cpu to mine RandomX? 04:40:53 also its ddr4 04:40:54 apparantly 04:40:54 If that's ecc that will be incredibly expensive 04:40:55 ecc? 04:41:43 Pretty much, servers sometimes require ECC ram. ECC is error-correcting-code. pretty much it slows it down a little but keeps a copy of certain bits, so it can handle bit switches 04:41:52 Like a checksum 04:41:57 how do i know if it needs ECC ram 04:42:02 I remember it needing 30mb 04:42:05 Look online 04:42:11 oh 04:43:00 Nevermind, it needs 2048mb for fast mode, or 256mb if light more 04:44:16 per cpu? 04:44:17 aight so i just need 04:44:28 a tad bit more than 4GB of ram 04:44:31 No, i think in total 04:44:32 oh damn 04:44:33 But not sure 04:44:34 so i can just pick any 4GB stick of ddr4 ram and it will work 04:44:35 nice 04:44:35 Well, hopefully its non-ecc and unbuffered 04:44:41 i dont think it needs ecc ram 04:45:16 holy mother of christ, i found the ram 04:45:20 Check if it needs buffered or unbuffered 04:45:23 Great 04:45:55 a single 8 dollar piece of 4GB ram 04:45:58 wait is running in single channel bad? 04:46:24 in this case? 04:46:26 Doesn't matter 04:46:26 randomx would be cpu-dependent 04:46:27 I'm not 100% sure though 04:46:36 ok so 04:46:39 lemme calc the costs 04:47:29 8 + 45 = 53, divide that by 2 and you get 26.5, add 9.5 to that for the cost of each cpu 04:47:29 and you get like, 36 dollars per cpu 04:47:37 assuming im using the 9.5 dollar cpu i found on ebay 04:48:07 ROI in days is something like 173.2 04:48:08 yeah thats a pretty good deal if you ask me 04:48:13 ROI in days is something like 173.2 days 04:48:49 I can code, develop stuff, blockchain related stuff included. Do you know any way I can make money within the monero ecosystem? Mining is not an option given my current financial situation. "Make money" meaning $300-500/month or more. 04:49:28 I might buy some miners myself if they're really that cheap and more efficient than the 5950x that I have 04:49:30 wait shit 04:49:31 i need a PSU 04:49:32 actually i could probably rip an absurdly cheap one off ebay 04:51:18 found one 04:52:06 https://www.ebay.com/itm/235107192469? 04:52:08 wrong one 04:52:09 https://www.ebay.com/itm/195655624139 04:52:53 30 dollar power supply that supplies 980 fucking watts 04:52:53 Wow 04:52:56 could probably power like 2 of those duel cpu motherboards, ROI goes up to probably 210 days 04:52:56 That would be old, heavy, and possibly dangerous 04:52:57 could probably power like 2 of those duel cpu motherboards, ROI goes up to probably 210 days or so 04:52:57 eh heavy not a problem, not like it so heavy it will fall through the floor 04:53:43 also, what you mean dangerous 04:53:44 not like PSUs just blow up like chinese knockoff batteries 04:53:46 I guess so, I just assumed that since it is older, it won't be safe 04:54:01 cant be that bad if it still works 04:54:45 What are you using for cooling 04:54:51 if i bought anything better it would make it less profitable 04:54:54 Yep 04:54:55 it Just Works™️ 04:55:40 it Just Works 04:55:42 what 04:55:45 Simple metal passive heatsinks 04:55:46 oh 04:55:50 i read coding 04:56:39 probably what recanman said or stock coolers 04:56:40 a used fan cannot be that hoot 04:56:42 a used fan cannot be that bad 04:57:29 actually, how would i know how much fan i need to cool down a cpu? 04:57:34 since TDP stands for thermal design power why isn't it listed on the fan for how much it can cool? 04:57:36 I just use a couple reusable lunch box coolers 04:58:19 I have 2 in the freezer and 2 sitting on my cpu 04:58:22 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Vintage 04:59:24 I have no where to go so I just set an alarm clock 04:59:25 If my grandson visits I just turn off the miner and we go to the zoo 04:59:28 actually, i realized something 04:59:29 would it be economical to forgo the coolers and put them into a walk-in freezer? 04:59:30 actually that would probably cost more in power 04:59:32 found a random 6 dollar fan off ebay 04:59:32 should do it 05:00:28 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Multiple purpose for mining and beers 05:00:35 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Multi purpose for mining and beers 05:02:11 what i am building is going to be the most goofy ass mining setup ever made 05:02:26 lol 05:02:32 a stock cooler from a pentium with a server cpu from 10 years ago on a random motherboard from fucking cisco 05:02:42 I really cannot tell if you're larping or if you're being serious 😆 05:02:56 a stock cooler from a pentium with a server cpu from 10 years ago on a random motherboard from fucking cisco attached to an apple PSU 05:03:08 all of that running in Syria 05:03:11 inside a freezer 05:03:57 it would be a lot of fun, if it works 05:04:16 you need to make sure that all the parts are compatible for heavy duty 05:04:17 Achievement Unlocked: "Unprofessional but Elite": Create something that looks trash but is actually the most efficient way to do the task it is doing. 05:04:35 How are you going to wire that Apple psu 05:04:50 it cant be that proprietary 05:05:04 #rightToRepair 05:05:40 apple would not be stupid enough 05:05:47 to make even their psu's proprietary 05:05:56 that would just be petty 05:06:20 Apple is very smart, people actually spent $2000 for a device with a 256gb soldered, non-replaceable ssd 05:07:29 there is no way that actually sold 05:07:39 256gb is ass 05:07:52 for an SSD 05:07:58 Go to any college and you'll see them 05:08:01 my home pc has 512GB 05:08:19 and it cheaper than a case of corona 05:08:20 probably 05:08:56 i wonder why they dont put their computer science students to use and build a computer from parts or sommething 05:09:00 i wonder why they dont put their computer science students to use and build a computer from parts or something 05:09:39 Half of the undergrads don't even know what a filesystem is and assume everything is managed by a set of 'apps' 05:09:45 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/agoradesk.com/GfLphALxNxAgtQkELvPvdtOA 05:10:12 aint no way 05:10:19 i thought university students were supposed to be smart 05:10:26 Not half, but a sizable portion 05:10:35 Well, I don't believe in learning computer science through classes 05:10:50 I believe in tinkering, breaking things, opening them up, and learning through there 05:10:57 true men ask Phind/ChatGPT for guidance 05:11:01 legends read the documentation 05:11:05 Then you strengthen your fundamentals and concepts in classes 05:11:42 agreed 05:11:49 lol 05:12:04 i now know a lot more about building pc's after i dissasembled my computer to try and bring it to school after i lost my school chromebook 05:12:23 Are you a kid? 05:12:29 > school chromebook 05:12:54 freshman 05:12:57 Good thing that you're learning and all 05:13:05 In high school? 05:13:16 indeed 05:13:23 had the idea to mine crypto in middle school, though 05:13:52 i have had random ambitious ideas since the beginning of my memory and this is the first time i am actually doing them 05:13:52 I started my computer tinkering stuff in elementary, it stays with you for life 05:14:07 As did I. How coincidental! 05:14:09 I think you can safely assume that anyone in a monero room on matrix is capable of and interested in learning. 05:14:13 As did I. How coincidental 05:14:36 You should get some monero stickers and redpill your peers 05:14:53 also dont ask how i can get to syria 05:14:53 i dont 05:14:54 i have a guy over there 05:15:25 also apparantly you can travel anywhere with an adult's guidance so i pay this guy to let me go anywhere, haven't used it yet because i don't feel like walking into a war zone yet 05:15:29 Ah, ok, arab countries don't say 'high school' 05:16:01 Lets move in #monero-offtopic:monero.social 05:16:04 Lets move into #monero-offtopic:monero.social 05:16:10 aight 05:16:10 wait 05:16:52 we have another channel for that? 05:17:04 nice 05:17:06 There are a bunch of channels, most shown here: https://www.getmonero.org/community/workgroups/ 05:17:06 error in joining 05:17:07 matrix is doing something again 05:17:14 Hmm, odd, it doesn't really matter 05:17:18 nvm 05:17:19 Oh, I see it worked 05:23:20 also, is anyone here in syria? 05:23:39 i would like to know the place that has the least amount of random violence 05:25:51 xx_raxer_xx I think Aleppo is fine, compared to other places, but ask locals better, and you better learn arabic 05:31:32 oh fuck 05:31:36 i have to learn another language 05:31:43 i am pretty fucking bad at learning new language 05:32:04 Over there, they will be amused by you speaking English 05:32:19 Use a translator and you'll be fine 05:32:22 xx_raxer_xx get the bare minimum then immersed in the field your brain learns faster to survive 05:33:55 ah yes, the method of learning how to tread/float in water and then jumping into the deep end 05:34:03 i actually heard someone did that 05:34:09 it worked 05:34:13 i might try that 05:34:27 if i ever personally go there to setup my crypto setup 05:35:13 (note: that was not sarcasm, someone actually did that) 05:35:25 how much would i need to know that counts are the bare minimum 05:36:29 xx_raxer_xx this is off-topic, let's got to #monero-offtopic 05:37:18 makes sense 05:55:20 back here 05:55:21 uhhh 05:55:30 has anyone heard of the RandomX asic thing 05:55:38 some bozo company named Bitmain or something tried to slap together one 05:56:05 just to check, did they actually do it or is this just a pack of RISC-V cpu's 05:56:09 it's a nothingburger, less efficient than the best amd cpu 05:57:07 good 05:57:50 if they made actual asic's then monero would get annihilated 05:58:24 they are actual asics, it's just that an asic essentially has to be a cpu 05:59:43 yeah, i tried to read the randomX specs and while my brain is definitely not high enough spec to understand it, i know it uses all the parts of a cpu and such 06:14:25 also 06:14:26 has anyone 06:14:27 even read the RandomX specs 06:14:27 I have 06:14:27 idk if im stupid but the specs hurt my brain 06:14:28 But not completely 06:14:28 I just got a general idea 06:14:34 i only vaguely understand it 06:14:41 It's quite complicated 06:14:57 Cryptographers and mathematicians would understand it, you can ask them for a summary 06:15:30 if i understand correctly, 06:16:22 You can ask in #monero-dev:monero.social 06:16:31 RandomX works by taking some sort of input (i forgot the factors), it turns it into problems, and it derives more problems and it lists them on a scratchpad, then it solves them and then hashes them and if it works than you get ze block 06:16:32 or #monero-pow:monero.social 06:16:51 I thought you meant specs needed for running 06:17:48 no imean 06:17:50 the algorithm 06:17:54 its documentaiton 06:17:56 but its called specs 06:17:57 for some reason 06:18:00 also i dont think ic an 06:18:17 monerodev is for like smart mfs 06:18:18 im just some random freshman that likes reading code sometimes 06:18:25 You can ask questions there 06:18:35 I haven't read the technical specifications, no 06:19:26 aight 06:19:58 xx_raxer_xx but you are a smart mf, don't underestimate your brain 06:21:32 oh 06:21:33 then i will ask 06:21:39 once i figure out what i need to ask 06:21:46 it is less active so i will have to choose my questions 06:51:31 Lol, the 5950X is one of the most efficient cpus, at >100 H/s/W if you tune it decently (can go up to 130 ish if you aim for efficiency). Those old xeons will be lucky if they get 50 H/s/W. That means you need 3x cheaper electricity to get the same profitability ratio 06:51:53 Guess I read incorrectly 😆 06:51:58 electricity is not only thing 06:51:59 you need to consider price 06:52:02 of the cpu 06:52:34 xx_raxer_xx: I'm well aware. But the cost of the hardware comes after the efficiency, in terms of importance 06:53:16 If your hw is so inefficient that you spend more on electricity than you earn by mining, you will never recover its cost, even if you got it for free 06:53:33 cost of hardware is more important because it dictates how much hardware you can buy and shit 06:53:33 efficiency is only a factor in profit which is what should be considered 06:53:33 the old xeons are inefficient but for my use case i have absurdly cheap electricity so it works 06:53:34 And older Intel cpus are *bad* 06:54:09 for people with normal electricity costs modern cpu's/epycs would be better 06:54:31 That's true for everyone. Higher efficiency means higher profitability 06:54:36 For reference: 06:54:40 ``` 06:54:40 +-------------------------------+--------+-------+------------+---------+----------+-------+ 06:54:40 | CPU | Speed | Power | Efficiency | Amount | Power | $/kWh | 06:54:41 +===============================+========+=======+============+=========+==========+=======+ 06:54:41 | AMD EPYC 7763 (dual) | 100000 | 750 | 133.333 | 23195 | 17396250 | 0.149 | 06:54:42 | AMD EPYC 7742 (dual) | 90000 | 742 | 121.294 | 25772 | 19122824 | 0.136 | 06:54:42 | AMD EPYC 7702 (dual) | 84000 | 720 | 116.667 | 27613 | 19881360 | 0.131 | 06:54:43 | AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X | 65000 | 600 | 108.333 | 35684 | 21410400 | 0.121 | 06:54:43 | AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X | 40000 | 375 | 106.667 | 57986 | 21744750 | 0.119 | 06:54:44 | AMD Ryzen 7950X | 18143 | 140 | 129.593 | 127842 | 17897880 | 0.145 | 06:54:44 | AMD Ryzen 5950X | 22000 | 225 | 97.778 | 105429 | 23721525 | 0.110 | 06:54:45 | AMD Ryzen 5900X | 16000 | 160 | 100.000 | 144965 | 23194400 | 0.112 | 06:54:45 | AMD Ryzen 5800X | 11500 | 125 | 92.000 | 201690 | 25211250 | 0.103 | 06:54:46 | AMD Ryzen 5600X | 8000 | 75 | 106.667 | 289930 | 21744750 | 0.119 | 06:54:46 | AMD Ryzen 3950X | 22000 | 225 | 97.778 | 105429 | 23721525 | 0.110 | 06:54:47 | AMD Ryzen 3900X | 14600 | 140 | 104.286 | 158866 | 22241240 | 0.117 | 06:56:02 That last column ($/kWh) is how much the cpu will earn. It also means that that is the maximum electricity price you can afford to pay with that cpu if you want to break even (ie you earn as much as you spend, with 0 net profit) 06:56:35 There aren't many other cpus, because devices from the same generation/family tend to have roughly the same efficiency 06:56:59 You can find a more complete list of benchmarks at xmrig.com/benchmark 06:57:57 yes, but consider the price 06:57:57 the duel high end server-grade cpu's cost like thousands of dollars 06:58:01 If you can actually find electricity at 0.02 $/kWh, you will still have a pretty nice profitability ratio, even with those old xeons 06:58:46 that's the power of moving your crypto setup to a country with a civil war 06:58:48 I know. Which is why the best option is typically consumer hardware like Ryzen, ie best efficiency and best $/H/s/W 06:59:41 Don't forget about the risks too. What do you do if your rig gets stolen/blown up/disconnected from the internet? 07:00:22 (And that's disregarding any risks to you if you need to phisically go there) 07:01:07 What do you do if one component breaks down or needs maintenance? What if you need someone to phisically press a restart button? 07:01:26 i have a homie 07:01:44 that can fix it 07:01:49 You trust him with access?! 07:01:59 ^ 07:02:06 For free? 07:02:25 no shit, if i gave him a button that would destroy my balls i would trust him not to detonate it 07:02:33 he my homie fr 07:02:39 >zoomers 07:02:43 also nah 07:02:44 he gets 07:02:47 ...stuff 07:02:55 the ATF will raid me so i will prefer not to say 07:03:31 I'm losing faith in your intelligence 07:03:37 So that's a cost that will reduce your profitability 07:03:37 only slightly 07:03:38 fair 07:03:45 not many would trust their best friend that much 07:03:50 probably dumb to do that 07:03:58 ...i should probably hire a legit guy 07:04:02 that can do it 07:04:09 Shouldn't trust them either 07:04:12 fuck 07:04:15 what do i do 07:04:24 Have your own custody 07:04:25 Simple as 07:04:35 You stick to reality, like the rest of us 07:04:48 good point ^ 07:04:54 dammit 07:05:12 so i cannot hire a guy to manage it 07:05:13 You're not the first to think "hey what if I put a bunch of rigs in a much cheaper place?" 07:05:34 You can, but again, it will probably cost more than you will earn, and there will be risks 07:05:55 How will you bring the devices over there? Customs are extremely expensive and take months over there 07:06:03 You will end up paying over 2x 07:06:06 it cannot be that hard to ship it just regular shipping 07:06:23 hold up 07:06:23 just go to Idaho, man 07:06:24 let me check 07:06:43 It isn't that easy as amazon makes it 07:06:47 Trusting people is fine, but running a money-making operation of any kind based on pure blind trust in people is a generally bad business idea 07:06:58 Trying to get things from inside will be extremely hard 07:07:04 Assuming it even arrives there 07:07:07 They don't give a crap 07:07:27 i can probably sue him if he tries skimming some off the top (although i aint sure if i can sue him if im an ocean away) 07:07:33 shit you right 07:07:33 i cant do nothing 07:07:34 >Assuming the law will do anything 07:07:49 Lmao, good luck suing anyone in Syria 07:08:20 Especially if you live in a country that Syria *doesn't agree with* 07:08:32 SHIT 07:08:33 you are right 07:09:08 I used to be a naive script kiddie like you, keep exploring, don't lose interest 07:09:15 probably dumb proposition, 07:09:16 BUT 07:09:18 "sorry, bro, I had to sell the rigs to pay for this surgery my girlfriend had to go through, SORRY" 07:09:32 would overclocking work 07:09:37 i can probably jerryrig an EPYC overclock somehow 07:09:39 "you don't understand how syrian mothers in law are, bro!" 07:09:44 ask my friend or something 07:10:09 Overclocking typically reduces efficiency, and therefore profitability 07:10:25 I'm joking, I don't want to discourage you, it's that Idaho looks liek a much better idea 07:10:29 to me, imo 07:10:38 You'd have to reduce voltage as well, those things are risky and I don't mess with them too much 07:10:47 The epyc/ryzen results I included there are typically underclocked a little, so that you can undervolt the cpu even further 07:11:04 yes but especially for the higher end server cpu's where you dont need that much goddamn efficiency, would it be worth it to pay itself off faster? 07:11:22 i am not sure if i want to wait 2-3 years for a setup to pay off itself 07:11:33 hold up let me check 07:12:19 hey 07:12:19 endor 07:12:25 is the tdp accurate 07:13:01 for how much power it will use 07:13:31 shiiiiit this is bad news 07:13:41 The tdp figure on spec sheets? Nah. Technically it doesn't even represent actual power consumption, but heat generation 07:13:47 assuming 0.1/kWh and each epyc 7763 using 750W of power (idk) 07:13:51 it will pay itself off in 07:13:58 The numbers I have in my list are actual power measurements at the wall 07:14:01 1 THOUSAND AND EIGHT HUNDRED FUCKING DAYS 07:14:07 Yep 07:14:08 well fuck 07:14:12 Was just about to tell you that 07:14:13 im going to die of old age before i get it paid off 07:14:39 that's the reason why I am not mining 07:14:46 life is too short 07:14:53 man im just trying to find a way to make more money than i would normally work 07:14:55 That's why I told you earlier that desktop Ryzen is better 07:15:01 goddamn 07:15:06 oh 07:15:10 shit hold up aight 07:15:43 Get a job. Any job. Learn programming and start doing stuff of any kind, if you wanna stay at home 07:15:49 mining monero, or any crypto, isn't a particularly good way of making extra money nowadays 07:16:02 jit 07:16:04 i cant job 07:16:15 no literally im pretty sure my concentration is shot so i cant concentrate on anything for long enough 07:16:38 the only reason i can even think about this is because i have my favorite music blasting in the background to keep my attention 07:16:43 xx_raxer_xx do meditation, martial arts, that doesn't just help, it solves the problem 07:17:14 get in control of your high energy 07:17:34 Or, more realistically, go to a doctor and see if you have adhd, and if so, look for appropriate treatments 07:17:43 oh 07:17:44 yeah that makes sense 07:17:45 Lmao 07:17:52 no, doctors only sell drugs 07:17:53 buy some 3090s or 4090s and rent them out to AI people 07:17:56 meditation works 07:18:30 more money in ai than in crypto right now 07:19:01 i will think 07:19:17 but also the reason i want to make passive income is because like 07:19:29 ok the only thing in life i truely like is playing roblox/any other video game 24/7 07:19:48 This "passive income" meme needs to end 07:19:52 oh 07:19:57 shit am i about to get roasted 07:20:05 lol 07:20:08 oh shit endor dont uhhhhhhhhh go too hard 07:20:55 oh s h i t 07:21:02 passive income means you're rich enough to live off ~4% of your net worth (give or take, depending on many factors) 07:21:04 I mean, I was going to give you some food for thought, but if you're not interested I'll go do something more useful instead 07:21:08 oh sorry 07:21:24 In fact, I have stuff to do anyway 07:21:27 oh 07:21:30 Good luck on your endeavors 07:21:33 aight 07:22:14 i am definitely not there 07:22:19 endor00 lol, don't get mad, please, he was joking 07:22:31 i dont think jit is mad 07:22:46 minth: 100% correct 07:23:19 jit probably just has other things to do after i said he was gonna roast me or something 07:24:07 can't make everyone happy, that's life, some people like jokes, some people don't 07:24:27 yeah 07:24:29 but he's right, it's a meme 07:24:49 especially how inflation is being pumped nowadays 07:25:10 it's hard 07:25:17 well shit i would really like it if i could live off passive income 07:25:31 Holy crap, reduce the amount of garbage that you consume 07:25:43 Don't learn your finances off of 30-second tiktok videos 07:26:42 right now is probably a good time to be adhd and tech savvy, gpt can teach you programming and write much of your code for you, you can work online and bounce between small projects so you don't get too bored with each one 07:26:54 ok bro im sorry 07:26:55 goddamn 07:27:08 That's a horrible way to learn 07:27:20 No need to apologize, I'm doing you a favor 07:27:24 Take some advice 07:27:39 Delete social media off of your phone and see if you urges to use it 07:27:57 And another other time-wasting crap that gave you the adhd 07:28:19 I lived off passive income for years, not that great, let me tell you. 07:28:23 wait what 07:28:25 you can get adhd? 07:28:30 i thought you just have it 07:28:34 Of course 07:28:37 Attention span 07:28:40 not really but similar symptoms 07:28:47 Your neurons burn out from all of the stimulation 07:28:56 you can remediate and mitigate 07:29:22 "tough grass" is NOT a meme, you can literally cure diseases by touching literal grass regularly 07:29:33 improve your overal mental health, etc 07:29:42 I mean you can be born with it, but you get an identical situation 07:29:47 It isn't normal to check your iToddler every 30 secoonds 07:29:47 Yes, it just is a matter of doing it 07:29:49 You may have sentiment, just do it 07:29:50 ...i feel like that applies to me but instead of that it's discord 07:29:53 neurons don't burn out but they desensitize. they can be resensitized but some of the behavioral patterns you learn can't be fully unlearned 07:29:55 Why discord, I don't know why people like discord 07:30:01 It is a honeypot 07:30:07 yep, discord too 07:30:09 I did not mean literally 😄 07:30:25 You're being monitored 07:30:31 same reason people like matrix except for regular things 07:30:51 you are right, though 07:31:05 Has ties to israel, currently staked by chinese government (tencent is a company, but pretty much the same thing) 07:31:31 wait 07:31:37 if tiktok is made by a chinese company 07:31:37 than 07:31:43 that has to be even more of a honeypot 07:31:56 Not a honeypot, but more a demoralization attempt 07:32:15 Try to make youth of the US incompetent and retarded, weakens risks against china for the stuff that they are doing 07:33:35 also 07:33:37 what do ye mean by this 07:33:58 Chatgpt will help you when you are a programmer by making things faster, you should learn the real way 07:34:06 phind (a gpt based programming search engine) i have found useful for looking up examples and definitions of programming things 07:34:07 Yes, of course 07:34:18 Alternative to using a search engine 07:34:29 It isn't in-depth enough 07:34:36 You need to spend a few years breaking and tinkering stuff 07:34:45 I guess you could learn faster but this is how I learned 07:35:28 Open up old computers and mess around with them, install virtual machines, do some programming, etc. 07:35:45 I wish I knew better before I spent five years trying to make a successful 07:35:50 I wish I knew better before I spent five years trying to make a successful video game 07:36:04 Literally just do random stuff until you find what is fun 07:37:07 And making a game is fun. Gets you to try out various things. Math, AI, graphics, data structures, etc. Eclectic and useful. 07:37:17 there is no substitute for understanding things, but gpt can explain things to you and answer your questions in real time so you don't have to figure out everything on your own 07:38:29 and it can show you how to do things, give you code examples that are tailored specifically for what you need 07:38:53 I meant higher-level, roblox 07:38:55 It teaches you a lot but I spent too much time on it 07:38:55 I figuratively spent every minute of my freetime with computers since I was younger, when I wasn't working with them, I was thinking about them. Just keep messing around and you'll find the find in the vast world of computer science 07:38:56 This is still the case... I'm always thinking about these things 07:40:07 cool 07:40:07 so what i am taking from this is that 07:40:08 Yes, llm aids you when you are programming, it will help a lot. But try to do things on your own first 07:41:27 phind is a useful tool however i should also tinker with physical hardware and also program a bit (contributing to repos or making your own pet projects maybe) to become a legit programmer 07:41:34 Yes 07:41:36 i do not envy going to a university so i will only do so if i have to because spending 4 more years in any school sounds like hell 07:41:37 but i will need it for a job 07:41:37 University is a waste unless it is phd research 07:41:41 I recommend it but it is just to strengthen your knowledge, not to create it 07:42:35 Certifications are good too. You can start with comptia a+ to show your experience 07:43:10 sounds legit 07:43:23 wait shit 07:43:31 recanman i just realized something 07:43:42 ye i forgot that you can sell used cpus for a good chunk of the original price 07:43:50 but also like, i know older cpus sell for less % of their original price 07:43:55 what I liked about university is that I "had to" show up and do assignments, otherwise I'd just stay home and play games all week. also I learned stuff I otherwise wouldn't have bothered with so I got a broader understanding of computers and software than I would have just by following my whims 07:44:15 They lose value pretty quickly 07:44:16 but also how the fuck do i predict that 07:44:17 I bought the 5950x for $750 I think (bad choice, I know), and now I can get it for a couple hundred 07:45:18 but if you're motivated to learn you can absolutely learn on your own, just start programming and learn what you need when you need it. 07:46:17 that was just a few years ago 07:46:27 and it's price went down, by 50% 07:46:29 hmmmmmmmmm 07:46:32 does that mean that 07:46:33 Yeah 07:46:40 each year a cpu's price goes down by 07:46:42 16.67%? 07:46:46 Not a good thing to rely on making money from selling used electronics 07:46:47 wait no 07:46:49 that dont make sense 07:47:21 there's no rule about how quickly prices decrease, it depends on what new hardware comes out and how the market demand is 07:47:44 It's not linear, you'd have to look at hundreds of cpus 07:48:05 that would mean after 8 years or so it would be negative 07:48:10 That's not hard 07:48:15 oh 07:48:18 **It's not linear** 07:48:23 so i will need to make da graph 07:48:23 # **It's not linear** 07:48:24 I don't know what level of mathematics you're in 07:48:26 yeah i sent that before ye sent that but it looks like i said it after you said it bcuz of lag or something 07:48:27 math 1 07:48:27 freshman 07:48:28 Algebra? Pre-algebra? 07:48:29 algebra 07:48:30 prealgebra was a while ago 07:48:31 Oh, ok 07:48:35 Computer science is math-based. You should try to accelerate yourself 07:48:55 Maybe take some classes over the summer, then file it with the school or something 07:49:45 out of school yes 07:49:48 in school fuck no 07:49:50 i love having easy classes 07:49:58 if i could just chill in math 1 and pass hs then i would 07:50:06 but i cant 07:50:07 😦 07:50:21 i take path of least resistance 07:50:22 You won't succeed in life doing the bare minimum 07:50:25 School doesn't make you smart, they don 07:50:43 School doesn't make you smart, they don't want you to be smart 07:51:05 if you want to learn math, write a ray tracer and a physics engine 07:51:06 what do you mean by that 07:51:12 their goal is to educate you to get good job 07:51:14 or something like that 07:51:25 that's training, not education 07:51:28 Ahh, I'm too tired to explain 07:51:29 they train you, they don't educate you 07:51:44 If everyone was smart, who would the sheep be? 07:51:49 what is difference, exactly 07:51:52 both advance your knowledge in a field enough to 07:51:52 wait 07:52:06 "knowledge" vs knowledge 07:52:40 ok yeah 07:52:41 ok i see your point 07:53:03 one thing is "knowing" how to drive a car (as per learned in videogames or books), another thing is knowing how to drive a car (as in being a good actual driver) 07:53:07 w h a t 07:53:12 ray tracer 07:53:24 didnt the mfs at nvidia try for like years to put it on their gpus? 07:54:20 the math involved would be insanely over math 1 or any other hs math course 07:54:23 yeah they have it in their gpus now but you won't learn anything by using their solution. you should write one yourself. It's not very difficult for a basic one. 07:55:19 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/uUmkUxBkfahtQgUbNCxNhqbC 07:55:19 look at this 07:55:20 do you think freshman can understand what the fuck this means 07:55:21 Of course 07:55:21 I knew freshman in multivariable calculus 07:55:21 It isn't as hard as that 07:55:22 With computer science stuff, wikipedia is always overly-verbose 07:55:28 Ray-tracing is too hard to start with 07:55:49 gpt can help you understand the math 07:55:49 But it's a matter of writing the math out and attempting to wrap your head around it for a very basic raytracer 07:56:08 Just learn some programming first, maybe start with go or javascript or something 07:56:16 Just learn some programming first, maybe start with go or javascript (node.js runtime) or something 07:56:38 javascript sucks but yes, learn basic programming first 07:56:57 walk before you run 07:58:14 bro like 07:58:20 FPGA programming might give money 07:58:36 good money 07:58:36 ok recanman imagine like you just chilling in this server and some guy ask you to slap together an i9-11900KS from scratch 07:58:54 I have imagined that 07:58:58 hahaha, no it's not like that at all 07:59:03 ye but like 07:59:10 dats about how hard it would be for me to understand like the uhhhh 07:59:15 the weird three lines branching symbol 07:59:20 hold up let me find it 07:59:35 You are I are very similar, I used to be in the same exact situation as you were in, except I was in elementary school 07:59:37 the stuff nvidia does in their gpus is super advanced, but that's because it has to run super fast and do everything 07:59:59 Always used to help my instructors with tech issues and ask the school it guy a bunch of loaded questions to 'show off' in a sense 08:00:24 this is not too complicated once you know some programming https://raytracing.github.io/books/RayTracingInOneWeekend.html 08:00:25 Once I started attempting to learn, then my knowledge actually became a bit more worthwhile 08:00:45 You need to acquire knowledge and become capable of evaluating logic 08:00:50 That works best by programming 08:01:35 mathematics is a language, mathematical notation looks alien when you haven't learned it 08:02:06 but when you know programming you start to understand that math and programming are very similar, they just have different notation 08:02:34 and programming also looks very alien when you don't know it 08:02:43 They are the exact same, programming is just an abstraction of mathematics 08:02:46 but when you get it you get it 08:02:59 They are the same, programming is just an abstraction of mathematics 08:03:05 you just have to start learning and the pieces will gradually fall into place 08:03:27 Yep 08:04:07 so i have to learn math to program well 08:04:09 fuck 08:04:14 If you want to be a good programmer, yes 08:04:20 Programming = mathematics = logic 08:04:54 or conversely, you will learn math by learning programming 08:05:55 programming is much more fun than learning math in school 08:06:07 but the skills are just as valuable 08:06:09 I became "good" at math after having learned a lot of programming. go hand in hand 08:06:23 shit 08:06:24 now i have to actually try in math and not chill in the easiest math class 08:07:11 again, school is "useful", don't worry too much about performance or grades, worry about logic, logic is everything 08:07:15 this is probably gonna sound like a dumb question but 08:07:16 can you get around math 08:07:17 in programming 08:07:30 like work in a field that is less math and more programming 08:07:32 yes, webdevs rarely tough math 08:07:43 touch 08:08:15 Be a frontend dev 08:08:19 but it's what most people do. If you want to be paid a lot of money do what minth and recanman tell you, get into the logic/math part. 08:08:24 shit that requires art 08:08:25 I despise frontend devs the most 08:08:25 I despise frontend the most 08:08:28 ok im fucked 08:08:32 backend requires math 08:08:32 which i find dreadful to learn 08:08:33 You are not, just actually spend time on it 08:08:33 and art/visual design/ui design i cannot do 08:08:34 Goodbye 08:08:35 oh 08:08:35 also how far would i have to get in math 08:08:35 to understand the RandomX algorithm 08:09:10 a thing i have tried a while ago and considered trying again was porting RandomX to lua 08:09:12 you're not fucked, you just need to believe in yourself. it's pretty easy once you know the basics 08:09:15 the reason im not asking this in Monero Dev is that it sounds kind of dumb 08:09:41 a thing i have tried a while ago and considered trying again was porting RandomX (XMRig) to lua 08:10:00 imma ask over there, actually 08:10:00 if anyone is up 08:12:35 sounds like a good way of learning both crypto stuff and lua 08:12:47 good idea 08:13:52 where IS the randomx docs/specs 08:13:54 i swear it was there 08:14:51 nvm found it 08:15:47 to understand the RandomX algorithm 08:15:47 im porting XMRig to Lua for the hell of it 08:18:52 ...ok i have realized i am probably jumping into the hardest lua script that will ever be made 08:18:54 goddamn 08:19:04 xx_raver_xx https://github.com/tevador/RandomX/blob/master/doc/specs.md 08:19:22 943 lines of documentation 08:20:00 one step at a time, and always have fun 08:21:09 well 08:21:33 i will try and have as much fun as a freshman trying to comprehend the work of multiple university grade programmers/mathematicians can have 08:21:57 yeah break it up into easier pieces, don't bite off too much at a time 08:22:06 not much but it is something 08:22:44 shit i just realized something 08:22:44 i will have to port blake2b as well to lua 08:23:15 damn this is looking mighty hard 08:23:19 it exists 08:23:37 what 08:23:42 https://luapower.com/blake2 08:23:57 W H A T 08:23:57 god bless whoever did that 08:24:12 i will relay this to my team, and yes, i did build a team 08:24:47 many things exist 08:25:06 programming is kind of choose your own adventure 08:25:11 what's next, some guy already ported XMRig? 08:26:06 ...i hope that doesn't exist so i can be the first one to do that 08:26:07 yes, but closed source 08:26:14 ye its cool 08:27:10 no what 08:27:11 you mean the lua XMRig miner? 08:27:14 someone DID THAT 08:27:38 https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining/comments/8cdf9m/advanced_cryptonight_cpu_miner_with_lua_engine/ 08:27:48 not sure what they did, sounds like some lua thingy 08:28:00 anyway, it's gone 08:29:13 maybe just embedded lua 08:29:28 gravimatrix? 08:29:46 what do you mean by yes? 08:29:50 HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT 08:29:52 oh 08:29:52 fuck 08:29:52 WHY GOD 08:29:53 WHY 08:29:53 I COULD PUT THIS ON ROBLOX AND BECOME THE RICHEST MAN ON EARTH BY MINING CRYPTO 08:29:54 it appears that fate is not letting things be easy, again 08:29:54 wait bro 08:29:56 its cryptonight 08:30:02 ... 08:30:24 well that was a lot of excitement for nothing 08:30:32 still, thank you for blake in lua 08:30:46 that will be useful 08:31:08 gravi u a real ##### 08:31:23 (note those were my hashtags its a roblox reference) 08:31:36 i am going to sleep now 08:31:38 or soon 08:31:53 goodnight sedimenttable 08:32:24 why is m-relay stuck 08:33:13 it's late, yes, let us know if you made something of these ideas, in few months maybe you got a nice experiment going on 20:14:29 anyone here? 20:14:30 chat seems 20:14:31 pretty dead 20:14:40 e 20:14:41 hey shit this bridge works 20:31:36 I am here, is there something you want to discuss? 20:31:36 More people will probably chime in if there is an interesting topic. 21:27:52 aight so basically, if i am trying to do what i was saying i would do (port RandomX to lua), and i wanted to hire a guy 21:27:59 what would i want on their resume? 21:28:15 just 1 employee 21:28:15 You will not make money from mining on roblox 21:28:19 They will detect you and ban you 21:28:58 i have considered that, but regardless, if i wanted to, what would i want on their resume? 21:29:02 if i only had enough funding to hire 1 guy 21:29:14 It would be a grueling task 21:29:21 And would be dreadfully inefficient 21:29:43 bro pls answer the question 21:29:56 I don't know 21:29:58 oh 21:30:00 experience with randomx and monero 21:30:18 would they need cryptography experience too? 21:30:19 Yes 21:30:46 so crypto experience, randomX/monero experience, a good Lua scripter, and also a guy that actually shuts up when you give him an NDA 21:31:01 yeah makes sense 21:33:40 also 21:33:42 on somewhat unrelated topic, how do you know if a mf is actually doing a good amount of work if they are working remotely 21:34:09 Check in on them...? 21:34:11 it could probably be by feel just by checking their work every few hours but also they could be holding back just a bit so i believe they are doing all they cna 21:34:21 I am not calling you stupid, but you are too ambitious and naive 21:34:32 Try to learn before jumping the gun 21:34:35 Goodbye 21:34:42 alright then 21:34:47 goodbye 21:34:53 or goodnight depending on where you are 21:36:58 well hopefully i can learn by jumping the gun 21:37:31 You will not 21:37:33 I did not either 21:39:00 wait you did somewhat dumb things too? 21:39:00 I am not available now, goodbye 21:39:11 What I meant was getting too excited and not learning fundamentals first 21:39:18 Otherwise you know nothing 21:39:20 You can't apply it 21:43:40 makes sense 21:43:43 thanks m8 22:17:47 also i wonder 22:17:51 does this room have a mod? 22:17:54 do any of the rooms have mods? 22:28:04 i havent witnessed anyone getting banned or muted yet 22:29:07 either this place is REALLY peaceful or the mods are very fast