01:45:08 Are there any opinions about churning coins, by repeatedly sending to yourself? 04:41:29 Don’t do it so much that it stands out 04:42:45 sounds sexual 05:45:28 question - is it possible to use an incoming txid as a source of randomness? or can the sender manipulate it? 06:33:51 If people wanted monero for privacy where else they gonna go? People will alwaya need private transactions and their really isn't much competition. Online privacy and freedoms seems to be reducing every day so the monero market can only get bigger. Main problem I see is that people need to self host things to make p2p work and most are not willing. 06:40:22 Diversification, Prepping, & Alternative Investing (Comic Books, Shoes, etc). 06:40:22 We use Monero because we don’t care if it goes to zero in fiat tomorrow, to us 1 Monero is 1 Monero. 06:40:23 We’ll use it anyways. 06:41:36 Because Monero is a concept, and a message of freedom, and privacy which is more valuable than any currency could ever have. 14:13:39 A currency with no value? 14:15:42 Wownero? 14:16:58 It has the value of a deposit bottle :D 16:22:53 wownero has more value than bitcoin :D 16:22:59 in my heart ^^^ 16:35:56 when you favor emotion over reason you lose 16:40:15 price != value 16:40:58 Tell that to the cashier at the supermarket 16:46:29 tell that to the car dealer who lowers the price after you start walking out 16:49:55 normies 16:50:02 ugh 16:56:44 does anyone know if its possible to use an incoming txid as a source of randomness, or is it possible for the sender to manipulate it? 17:02:31 Sender constructs the transaction, and txid is a hash of it, so sender can manipulate it 17:06:09 they can manipulate it by making many of them until the hash matches what they want, but doesnt that eat up their funds? 17:06:34 or can they make it, decide the hash doesnt match, and get those outputs back? 17:07:24 does the network even verify the hash or can you in theory recompile and make the txid something else and itll go through? 17:11:53 snex: You can construct a tx without broadcasting it. So someone could just re-construct a tx millions of times without paying a fee for any of those txs. 17:12:27 got it thx 17:15:15 reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1ah7xv1/ccs_hintojanai_fulltime_work_on_cuprate_3_months/ 17:31:51 how come wownero is solo mining only and monero isn't? 17:34:55 because monero don't support solo mining 17:35:02 because monero don't advocate solo mining 17:35:20 y 17:35:23 whaat 17:35:30 it supports solo mining 17:35:52 oh mb I thought solo mining meant no pool mining 17:35:53 how could wownero possibly enforce solo mining only in the first place? sounds dubious 17:36:19 by requiring wallet private key for mining 17:36:25 iirc no same address from one hashrate source or smth like that 17:36:34 even then you can form pools through community wallets 17:36:44 just have to trust people 17:37:06 weird indeed. I'm not knowledgeable on that 17:37:07 that's the same as solo mining only, in my view 17:37:15 the claim remains correct 17:37:39 but pools already involve trust anyway 17:38:16 centralized, that'd be the difference 17:39:08 If there is a way of centralizing wownero miners then the claim is false. 20:16:28 Theres no such thing as wownero solo-only in practice. Any "solo" miner can form a pool 20:26:13 snex on a normal pool, you only have to trust the admin(s). On a "pool" on a solo-only chain like wownero, you'd have to trust *all* the miners, and everyone else would have to trust you, because you'd all need the private spend keys of the shared wallet 20:26:58 Which means that anyone could steal all contents at any time 20:27:42 So you might be technically able to do that, but in practice it's a no-go 20:28:32 The only reasonable setup would be with a small, closed group of trusted friends (the kind you'd trust with your money) 20:30:45 If you wanted to set up a public pool you'd have to publish the private keys somewhere, or at least establish a system that new miners could go through to ask for them. Which means anyone could get your keys and steal a block right after it's mined 20:30:52 you also have to upload your private spend key to every box that mines. sounds like a big risk 20:31:56 For individuals, it's still not that bad. You just need to make sure you don't expose your rigs carelessly 20:32:00 if my mining rig gets compromised, best you can do is redirect the output for a short time 20:32:10 As long as you don't do anything too dumb, it's fine 20:32:26 my monero mining rig, that is 20:35:59 ofrnxmr on the contrary: wownero solo-only works *in practice*, because no sane person would share private keys with untrusted parties to form a mining pool 20:39:29 So, Wownero is great then. 20:39:33 It's more decentralized. 20:40:55 yeah must be that, wownero better, monero bad 20:41:22 You dont have to, you can just use xmrig-proxy with pplns tracking 20:41:50 You only need 1 key. 20:42:04 you dont need anyone elses keys 20:43:20 Just like a regular mining pool, you just contribute hashes and your contributions are tracked and paid out in a centralized manner. Its the same way there are centralized pools on top on p2pool 20:44:12 https://github.com/gavinbarnard/p2pooler/blob/p2pooler/README.md 20:46:46 On the contrary, solo-only is pretty bad for network security overall, because you're pretty much killing off small miners. The ideal solution would be a p2pool-only network (where you can have multiple p2pools), but that's not technically possible (that we know of) 20:47:07 Seems everybody forgot about xmrig-proxy?or pretending it doesnt exist 20:47:29 Right, I didn't think of that 20:47:34 How is it "pretty much killing off small miners"? 20:50:14 The whole point of mining pools is that small miners need to join their forces (and split the rewards) to have consistent and regular payouts (aka low variance in their income over time). That way you only need to do a small amount of work and get paid regularly (and pay your bills/spend your coins/do whatever) 20:51:06 Solo mining is all-or-nothing, ie the highest possible variance. A miner with a low hashrate could find a block in a minute, or no block for several months, or even years 20:51:52 Which means they could potentially waste months of work with no reward 20:52:19 xmrig-proxy + wownero allows to store wallet private spend key only on the proxy 20:52:41 Most rational miners don't like that perspective, so they would not mine at all 20:52:43 sech1 then there's a workaround to pool? 20:52:44 end miners (which connect to the proxy) only have the one-time secret spend key for a block they're mining right now 20:52:58 so they only can steal the block they're mining at the moment 20:53:35 Oh right, miners still have the keys on the proxy, that's why it was not a good setup 20:53:45 *from the proxy 20:53:50 Sounds like a dumb feature to create. 20:54:08 no, proxy sends a unique spend key to each connected miner 20:54:12 so it's relatively safe 20:54:26 if someone connected to a proxy finds a block, they can steal this block 20:54:37 but they can't steal blocks from other miners connected to the same proxy 20:54:42 Ah, so only the miner who actually finds the block could steal it from the pool 20:54:46 Gotcha 20:54:54 still bad 20:54:56 so proxy is safe with wownero, but you can't make a pool out of it 20:55:20 because when you find a block, you're only getting a small portion of this block's reward, so you always have an incentive to steal it 20:55:36 in the end it centralizes, because it favors large mining farms 20:55:53 for proxy it doesn't matter - all miners which connect to it, belong to the same person 20:56:02 as endor00 said 20:56:15 even if some miner gets compromised, their expected average reward is the same as if they just started mining to their own wallet 20:57:00 because stealing found blocks = essentially solo mining with extra steps 20:57:28 but if you're in a pool and start stealing blocks, you get rewards from the pool and from the stolen blocks => incentive 20:57:41 hmmmm 20:58:02 no incentive, but still bad because it could ruin the entire pool 20:58:24 in a situation where people need to cover production costs 20:58:29 tight situations 20:59:31 It could allow for takeovers from competing pools. Again, leading to centralization.