00:52:54 !seen P3rl 14:27:29 what is  the difference between a  non-coinbase transactions and  a  coinbase transactions 14:29:17 coinbase transactions introduce new XMR coins into liquidity. These coin amoins are not encrypted confidential transactions. 14:29:43 Non-coinbase transactions do not introduce new XMR coins into circulation. And their amounts are encrypted with confidential transactions. 14:31:01 thank you 14:31:32 your welcome 14:32:08 mining create only coinbase transaction ok? 14:32:44 yes, mining XMR creates only coinbase transactions. 15:08:58 But only mining in p2pool creates coinbase transactions for all miners i guess 15:36:33 https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/vastaamo-hacker-traced-via-untraceable-monero-transactions-police-says/ 15:36:38 how accurate is this article 15:36:55 sounds like they followed the BTC and found XMR along the way, not breaking actual XMR privacy features 15:37:36 it seems that at best there was some EAE or EABE probabalistic linking? 15:41:26 https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/19emsfe/finlands_national_bureau_of_investigation_claims/ 15:42:32 Did you ever see a fully accurate article about cryptocurrencies these days? :) 15:57:50 this was covered in Monero talks last week episode , you can watch there 19:54:20 why is monero inflationary? 19:55:48 because you cant do math 20:03:42 What’s the math 20:04:27 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> 1 + 1 = 🪟 20:07:17 you tell me. whats the xmr inflation rate? 20:07:49 Greater than zero 20:07:57 1% 20:08:04 how did you arrive at that number? show your work 20:08:07 ~0.86% 20:08:14 snex: what u mean? 20:08:20 why getting personal? 20:08:27 I just ask why monero has to be inflationary? 20:08:46 because anyone who thinks it is inflationary cant do math... 20:08:51 your premise is wrong 20:08:55 So miners can keep the chain secure 20:09:10 its commong knowledge that monero extend the money volume constantly 20:09:13 common 20:09:27 ok now do the math and tell me the inflation rate 20:09:32 so the question is why it does not follow bitcoin premis with a constant money volumne? 20:09:46 Huh ? 20:10:00 the monero money volumne is not limited 20:10:06 so its inflationary 20:10:21 what is confusing to you? if xmr is inflationary then it must have an inflation rate. so tell me what that rate is and how you arrived at that number 20:10:28 It’s infinite in infinite time 20:10:39 with increasing supply the inflation rate decreases 20:10:39 rsch is the perfect reviewer of the ccs funded video 20:10:43 It’s because it’s cash, not a rare metal. 20:11:04 and it's expected that some coins get lost in the void so it's probably more deflationary 20:11:21 Asteroid mining? 20:12:21 Money Supply =/= Inflation 20:12:22 While typically increases in money supply tend to cause inflation that is not always the case. 20:12:28 https://yewtu.be/watch?v=sRwSqM0YBto rsch please watch and share your thoughts 20:12:35 *Money supply increase 20:12:43 yes, a money supply increase is inflation 20:12:50 It is always the case. 20:12:55 inflation causes prices to go up. prices going up is not inflation 20:13:24 Correlation does not mean causation 20:13:41 huh? inflation is BY DEFINITION increasing the money supply 20:14:28 Inflation is the rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising, leading to a decrease in purchasing power. It is typically measured as an annual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index (CPI) or Producer Price Index (PPI). Inflation erodes the real value of money over time. 20:14:38 If the amount of goods, & see increase at a similar rate of the money supply inflation probably would not happen. 20:14:45 quoting wikipedia is not an argument 20:14:50 *service increase 20:15:08 And putting wrong definition isn’t good 20:15:14 just because the government has tried to change the definition to distract you from knowing its cause doesnt mean you should accept that 20:15:40 Money supply != inflation 20:15:46 inflation has always meant increase to the money supply. anything else is propaganda 20:15:59 well you could have lead with that reasoning first 20:17:42 by the way if we want to go by your incorrect propagandistic definition of "inflation" then where on earth did you get the idea that monero is inflationary? 20:17:50 how did you measure that? 20:17:54 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/OKegMDLefqocOCJvFWqVKtYc 20:17:55 https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp 20:17:58 In this case it does. There is no other cause. 20:18:04 Rucknium is monero inflationary? 20:18:59 The increase in the price of goods, & services can also be caused by supply decreases, or demand increases. 20:19:17 Only slightly inflationary, which is a good thing because many coins are lost every year. 20:19:18 Yes, monerod supply is inflating forever 20:19:19 Does the current rate of inflation hurt monero ? No 20:19:39 Yes, monero supply is inflating forever 20:19:40 Does the current rate of inflation hurt monero ? No 20:19:40 bs 20:19:44 That is increase in price, not inflation. 20:19:47 "people that run a website agree with my beliefs in propaganda" is not an argument 20:20:18 Tin foil hat 2020 economic students here 20:20:28 Investopedia is hardly propaganda 😑 20:20:33 yeah ok 20:20:41 its just a website 20:20:42 For capitalism maybe 20:20:44 run by humans 20:20:44 No point arguing with kids 20:21:05 are you just unable to think for yourself or what? 20:21:15 gotta go ask somebody else who runs a website what they think? 20:21:18 i run a website too 20:21:20 There is no "second" cause for inflation. It is always, 100% of the time, no exception, always money supply. Period. 20:21:44 Increase in price is not inflation, it's normal market movement. 20:21:51 Yah with your own ideas on it 😂 20:21:59 Now go back to the cave you came out from 20:22:24 the definition of inflation is not unique to me. it has been the economic definition for centuries 20:22:33 only in the last few decades has the government tried to change it 20:22:43 Now go and read those books 20:22:45 and people like you just follow along like the sheep that you are 20:22:55 i have. you havent 20:23:15 Yah you read your kindergarten book I guess 20:23:34 make a real argument 20:23:55 No need to offend guys, it's just a scientific fact that believing government narrative is physiological retardation. 20:24:03 You don’t argue with stupid’s 20:24:11 Tin foil hats 20:24:14 ok then leave 20:24:21 You publicly shame them 20:24:23 That’s it 20:24:24 the fuck do you care about monero for at all? 20:24:30 go collect your fiat bux 20:24:41 Do you even understand monero ? 20:24:45 I graduated top of my class at the Rothbard, Marx, Friedman, and Keynesian school of economics 😎. 20:24:46 i do. you dont 20:24:48 lol retard 20:25:14 what is the argument again? Monero is , or isn't inflationary? or that the word inflationary has different meaning? is it really cause for getting angry over? 20:25:43 plowsof: both i guess? im still waiting for anyone who claims its inflationary to tell me the rate at which it allegedly inflates 20:25:57 slightly inflationary 20:27:03 snex: it's negligible compared to fiat, gold, even bitcoin 20:27:24 well eventually bitcoins will stop being created, but thats beyond our lifetimes 20:27:27 it's less inflationary than bitcoin 20:28:34 the long term inflation rate of monero is 0 20:28:45 trending toward 0? 20:28:57 no, the rate of new moneros entering the economy 20:29:20 well it has to be slightly above 0 20:29:22 yeah, it asymptotes to 0 20:29:27 yeah 20:29:52 every year it will be guaranteed to be less than the prior year 20:29:57 Monero's inflation rate is 1% 20:30:06 the tail emission become a smaller and smaller % of the total supply over time 20:30:08 the current yearly rate is not important 20:30:21 a year is an arbitrary time period 20:31:45 isnt everyone putting the same point forward (just with different time periods?) 20:31:50 Reddit says the following: 20:31:50 >Once the total number of moneroj will reach 18.3 million then money supply will stop decreasing and stay at a >constant rate of 0.3 Monero per minute. 20:32:09 yes, we have already reached that 20:32:30 >This is meant to provide incentive to secure the blockchain even after the 18.3 million coins will be distributed. 20:32:31 >Note that it's a constant amount so it will be about 1% the first year and it will reduce every year but never reach 0. 20:33:18 if what you care about is the effect on prices then you need to use the long term rate as determined by an NPV calc. and that number can only be 0 20:34:23 p​lowsof: In mainstream macroeconomics, "inflation" means a general increase in the price level of goods and services in an economy. I read recently that the mainstream definition did change over time. IIRC, before 1900 usually inflation meant increase in the supply of money. Then there was a 50-year transition. By 1950, in the mainstream it meant the general increase in the price level. 20:34:58 Around 30% of all BTC has been lost forever. 1% is negligible all the way around for any currency. 20:34:59 If you are having a discussion and there is disagreement about the meaning of a term, maybe use the term(s) that are more precise :) 20:35:23 thanks rucknium (this is why i dont think for myself snex, smart enough to know im too dumb to do that) 20:35:34 "general increase in the price level of goods and services" is about as imprecise as it gets 20:35:38 AFAIK, there is no disagreement about what an increase in the money supply means nor what a general increase in the price level of goods and services in an economy means. 20:35:50 Everything that came after the war is propaganda. Let's go back to truth. 20:36:20 Increase in price of pills you take, would that help ? 20:37:07 I think we are getting into #monero-offtopic:monero.social or #monero-beef:monero.social discussion topics. 20:37:10 Monero’s purchasing power hasn’t decreased in any substantial way due to its supply increase. 20:37:25 if ribeye gets too expensive and i switch to ground beef, the people whose job it is to "measure inflation" will somehow tell you that no inflation has happened 20:38:03 if otc medication prices are too high people may seek alternatives (e.g. purchasing on the black market) 20:38:38 Around 30% of all BTC has been lost forever. 1%/year is negligible all the way around for any currency. 20:39:26 endor00 has shown that BTC has other things to worry about 20:39:44 if the most common TV size used to be 40" but its now 50", and prices went from 100 to 120, the government will insist that TV prices have gone down 20:40:22 by 5% 20:42:42 Inflation is when better products, & services cost more. 20:42:42 Truly groundbreaking work. 20:44:07 I too run a website. 20:45:00 my website is https://banmonero.com tho. so clearly we should ban monero 20:48:13 Monero inflation is 0.69420% 20:54:34 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/qgdOMMzWdzSzsUFVVXlxkvii 20:54:38 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/ZdpIMWrAsRoAjlRiTBgAgERs 20:55:10 bro is so lagged 20:55:20 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/gzeOfIsAtNrkeBdSaErjmdZF 20:55:21 Merriam Webster Definition: 20:55:21 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inflation 20:55:22 Britannica: 20:55:22 https://www.britannica.com/money/inflation-economics 20:55:23 Econlib: 20:55:23 https://www.econlib.org/library/Topics/HighSchool/Inflation.html 21:00:57 The only Website that I’m aware of that defines inflation as increase in the Money Supply is Mises, which is part of The Austrian school of thought, which I agree with on a lot of things in principle. 21:00:57 But to make a cohesive argument we need to first define our terms, and what we mean. 21:00:58 Why we’re arguing, it is generally a consensus in The Monero Community as far as I know that Monero isn’t inflationary, as in no unexpected occurrences of supply growth occur. 21:00:58 Monero’s supply does grow, that is true but Monero’s purchasing power has stayed consistent over a period of time. 21:00:59 In my earnest opinion Monero is deflationary at least when compared to The United States dollar which experiences drastically more Inflation. 21:00:59 Now, it could be different when comparing to stable currency like the Swiss Franc which typically doesn’t engage in excessive stimulus policy like The United States, so Monero may be inflationary when compared to Swiss Francs but I cannot personally say as I am not in Switzerland. 21:02:44 For now I’m done debating this topic since I’m going to go touch grass. 21:02:54 so the supply of swiis francs grows slower than monero? 21:03:31 who asked about the inflation rate? https://p2pool.io/tail.html 21:04:00 I look forward to the time when there is only 1 btc left cause people die without letting others have access to their btc and others that simply lose it 21:04:09 I’d have to research the matter more in depth but as far as I’ve seen the Franc tends to appreciate in value against The Dollar. 21:04:44 yes but you were comparing it to montero 21:05:07 prices are very expensive in switzerland 21:05:21 Inflation is not bad per se, as I said before coins are lost, so its impact is negligible. 21:05:21 Inflation only becomes a problem when it's too high and unfair (one entity controls the supply and takes advantage of newly created currency, as the Fed does, not the case with Monero). 21:06:29 the past 12m inflation rate is less important than what the next 12m rate will be 21:06:47 and with monero we know with basically 100% certainty 21:07:00 I was saying that Monero might be inflationary to someone that lives in Switzerland but I cannot attest to that as I am an American, I am not Swiss, so I’m uncertain of Monero’s Market in Switzerland. 21:07:01 More adoption means deflation... it's in balance. 21:08:10 Purchasing power is what you're talking about and that's a whole different topic. Has more to do with number of users, and what value they have to offer to the market, etc. Many possible scenarios, independent of if there's inflation or not. 21:09:23 That’s a fair point, I didn’t use the optimal terminology to convey what I meant. 21:10:12 What you we should we be worrying about is adoption, real life use cases. 21:10:44 Agreed 21:10:55 What we should we be worrying about is adoption, real life use cases. 21:12:12 Which is why I’m building my website: 21:12:13 https://acceptcrypto.org/ 21:12:18 I’m 110% about adoption. 21:13:06 jordan_sanchez: i wrote a monero payment gateway for online merchants 21:13:26 nice 21:13:50 you can add it to your site - https://github.com/snex/xpg 21:14:21 monero only 21:15:38 Nice, I will list it on the monero page. 21:20:47 i have other repos up there you might also enjoy, have a look around 21:30:43 If they’re crypto related I usually list them. 21:30:44 I’ll take a gander at the other stuff. 21:34:56 No KYC on ramps with fiat. 21:34:56 People need to push Haveno harder. 21:35:10 is haveno actually up yet? 21:35:46 bisq has monero support and is already up and running 21:36:33 How can it be up without people pushing it? 21:36:53 why would anybody push it if the devs arent working on it? 21:37:12 This requires buying ₿ and that can be undesired. 21:37:33 yes but you can get btc without kyc 21:37:39 Because it’s needed. 21:37:48 if its needed then why arent the devs working on it 21:38:30 Buying ₿ on bisq requires having some ₿ already. So where did that ₿ come from? 21:38:56 they run a matrix chat where people can do onboard-level p2p trades for fiat 21:39:19 They’re working slowly and need testers = push 21:41:00 Also requires interacting with a transparent chain 21:41:11 yes but its actually running 21:41:37 the longer you have no working product, the less likely you are to succeed if and when you finally do 21:41:39 Actually running in a KYC manner 21:41:43 = not running well 21:41:47 no, theres no kyc lol 21:41:58 transparent chain != kyc 21:42:42 Tell LE and CA this 21:43:05 dont need to 21:43:52 if you want me to do test and dev work for your project, pay me 21:44:00 otherwise ill use whats already running 21:44:38 oh that reminds me. why dont monero projects switch from a donation begging funding model to a lottery model? 21:45:32 That’s insulting, why are you even here ? 21:45:48 insulting to suggest we use something that actually works? 21:46:03 What lottery ? 21:46:08 you hold one 21:46:31 Troll 21:46:44 lotteries are a far more effective means of raising funds than begging for donations 21:46:54 Have fun with that. Might as well stay on fiat then. Then you have no motivation for the movement. So why even be here? No, you’re not needed. Please Allow others to develop in peace. 21:47:22 Jinx 21:47:52 nobody is going to switch to freedom oriented things out of charity. people do what benefits them 21:48:04 you are offering no benefits 21:48:15 commie idealism will always fail 21:49:27 Yes we will. Charity to ourselves. 21:50:17 ok what benefit does haveno offer me that bisq doesnt? 21:50:25 you dont even have an MVP 21:50:36 and its been 2 years since ive heard of the project 21:50:42 thats quite frankly unacceptable 21:51:11 at this point youre just scamming people out of donations 21:51:31 the news section hasnt even been updated since ErCommie left 21:51:42 your discourse amounts to shitcoin numbergoup mentality 21:51:49 uh huh 21:51:56 but im not the one shilling vaporware 21:52:39 well, good for you 21:52:39 let's be constructive 21:53:13 i was. i suggested raising funds via lotteries instead of the current ineffective donation begging. then you can use those funds to pay devs and testers 21:56:07 to be honest, I don't see why not, you could start it any time you want 21:56:27 I will ask for funds when it's running 21:57:05 i could, if i had a project i needed funding. but i dont and if i go to the trouble of running a lottery im gonna keep the proceeds for myself 23:05:06 Hi 23:45:43 That was not nice 🤣